ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Faculties => Arts => Topic started by: spectroscopy on September 28, 2012, 11:58:40 pm
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everyone always makes jokes "oh im an arts student LOL JOKES HAHAHAHAHAS" and it seems to be generally looked down upon, and seen as more of a broad degree for baristas/prelawyers/creative white kids, and people with no specialisation or anything
so is it really worth getting? ive heard of companies hiring cross discipline from commerce to science to engineering etc. but never arts. so im just curious as to the value you see in it
if in uni i would do whatever i wanted and forgot about money completely, id do a double major in classics and politics (probs uom) but im worried about job prospects and things afterwards
my school wants us to know what degrees we're sort of headed for because a whole bunch of programs are coming up (kld scholars, etc.) , and also subject selections etc. and theyre really pushing us, and also my parents have been talking about it, and i know its still early and theres tonnes of time til im in uni but this would really ease my mind in subject selections etc
cheers guys
oh and dont mind the spelling errors ive been studying all day and my brains turned to mush -.-
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In terms of career stuff: What can a BA lead you to?
Lots of companies tend to like Arts graduates, but they tend to be US-based where there aren't professional undergraduate degrees. Still, I don't want to discount the fact that a degree in Arts DOES lead to employability. I don't have stats and it's a harsh economy right now, but really, there isn't anything to worry about on that side of things. However, it'll be rare for an arts grad to get a job where they actually use their knowledge in classics (politics is a bit different) unless they go down the academia route (which is also cool). It's all about soft skills, analytical thinking, communication, problem solving, etc. Arts is particularly good for soft skills, so are other degrees.
everyone always makes jokes "oh im an arts student LOL JOKES HAHAHAHAHAS" and it seems to be generally looked down upon, and seen as more of a broad degree for baristas/prelawyers/creative white kids, and people with no specialisation or anything
There's a mix. Some people take it seriously, some don't. I'm sure it's the same in any degree, maybe having a lack of direction is a bit more common in Arts since it has a reputation for being good for people who don't know what they're doing. If you really like English/social sciences/humanities/languages, it's the only degree you can really study those things in depth, so some students are actually quite focused and specialised. Others are still finding their feet. Whatever, what matters is why you're doing it, not why other people or even most people are doing it.
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everyone always makes jokes "oh im an arts student LOL JOKES HAHAHAHAHAS"
I try and stay away from people who make those jokes, because as Eriny has pointed out, not all Arts graduates end up in Maccas etc (in fact the vast majority don't).
My mum has a Masters in Arts and is now a teacher (was previously a lecturer), a profession she loves and enjoys.
As for other career paths, they are vast and varied. Including journalism, being a diplomat, historians, working in admin roles, academia, etc. Let's just say that if was a totally useless degree, it wouldn't be offered by the top unis :P
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As Eriny said, an Arts degree can on its own lead to different careers. Another very common route is to do your undergraduate Arts degree and specialize afterwards with your graduate degree - especially since the incarnation of the Melbourne Model, this is a very popular route and if you really want to do an Arts degree then Melbourne will facilitate that for you excellently imo.
If you like Arts, I say go for it.
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I don't know if I can speak for most Arts Kids here, but I can you assure you it is not a waste of a degree, and it is definitely worth it.
Firstly, I want to eliminate some misconceptions about Arts.
a) You don't learn anything in Arts The Degree rewards you for the Effort you put in. You don't put the effort in an Arts Degree, you rightfully belong in McDonalds. The gap between an accomplished Arts Kids and a not-so-accomplished Arts Kids is significantly large.
b) Arts Kids have so much free time compared to other degrees. Actually, with so much free time, you are expected to do further study, to do further readings and acquire greater knowledge to broaden your understanding of the world, and in your area of study
c) Arts Subjects have so many bogus subjects. Unfortunately, universities need to make money. You will find bogus subjects in other areas of discipline like Science and Commerce too. Arts shouldn't be pigeon-holed.
d) You have no vocational skills. It is important to ask yourself, what do you want in life? Firstly, what do you want in University? Do you want to become a manufactured employable slave or do you want something that's even more valuable than that: analytic skills, broad understanding of the world, sense of enlightenment.
I could have done Commerce, I could have done Science, I could have done Bio-medicine, but the Arts, to me, if you pick the right subjects, equips you with the mode of thinking and the analytic tools that if you do want to pursue those courses/ or a post graduate degree, in the future, you can with ease. If you've got that method of thinking, I can't see why it's not applicable in other genres.
So, what do you want your next 3 years of University to be? Money or Enlightenment
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Money or Enlightenment
well you tell me, so far has enlightenment been worth it?
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well you tell me, so far has enlightenment been worth it?
it is definitely worth it.
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1 more question LOL
what exactly do you do in your arts honours year? i mean, what are the options?
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It depends on what you want to do after your Arts degree - if you go into Arts with no idea about what you want to do or become in the future, then obviously it won't be that worthwhile (this would be the case in any course). I'm doing Arts right now and I enjoy it a lot - and I put this is as my first pref last year KNOWING that I wanted to get into academia/education after I finished Arts and postgrad :) As long as you have some direction about what you want to do (your eventual destination after uni) and choose a degree that will take you there, I don't see how an Arts degree (or any degree for that matter) could be worthless or a waste of time
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Do you want to become a manufactured employable slave or do you want something that's even more valuable than that: analytic skills, broad understanding of the world, sense of enlightenment.
So, what do you want your next 3 years of University to be? Money or Enlightenment
Is this implying that a vocational degree does not provide enlightenment? A vocational degree doesn't mean you graduate without deep analytical skills, especially given the number of gen-ed electives that are incorporated into vocational degrees. I'm in an IT degree yet I took philosophy last semester (scored 96) and I'm taking Roman history this semester.
And even then, it's not like you don't gain an understanding of the world and enlightenment in fields like IT and science. Technical fields aren't just memorization. I can sit at home and educate myself with the same classic texts that are studied in an arts degree, I can still observe the world around me, etc. I'm not paying 20k for that skill set either.
I believe an Arts degree isn't worthless, but it depends on the major. I just feel that if you're going to be a teacher, do a teaching degree. Likewise law or psych.
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Is this implying that a vocational degree does not provide enlightenment? A vocational degree doesn't mean you graduate without deep analytical skills, especially given the number of gen-ed electives that are incorporated into vocational degrees.
It is all relative. However, if you have a journey set in life, and you are passionate about it, then you should pursue that path.
And even then, it's not like you don't gain an understanding of the world and enlightenment in fields like IT and science. Technical fields aren't just memorization. I can sit at home and educate myself with the same classic texts that are studied in an arts degree, I can still observe the world around me, etc. I'm not paying 20k for that skill set either.
Read Above
I'm in an IT degree yet I took philosophy last semester (scored 96) and I'm taking Roman history this semester.
Congratulations on your 96 for Philosophy
I believe an Arts degree isn't worthless, but it depends on the major.
That's what I said.
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And even then, it's not like you don't gain an understanding of the world and enlightenment in fields like IT and science. Technical fields aren't just memorization. I can sit at home and educate myself with the same classic texts that are studied in an arts degree, I can still observe the world around me, etc. I'm not paying 20k for that skill set either.
I believe an Arts degree isn't worthless, but it depends on the major. I just feel that if you're going to be a teacher, do a teaching degree. Likewise law or psych.
If you can sit at home and read the content of an Arts degree then good on you. I wouldn't be able to. It's too in-depth and challenged my way of thinking to the extent that I needed guidance. Realistically a lot of arts students skip their classes and still manage to pass, but that's very different to really understanding and engaging with the material at an advanced level to the extent you can actually be creative with the concepts.
Likewise, I could sit at home and reach myself the grammatical stuctures of languages, including programming languages. I could learn the words and use it. Would I properly understand what I was doing? I might be misled to thinking yes, but actually thinking that I'd mastered something by reading and studying it for a few hours would be nothing but a sign of my own ignorance. Same goes if you think you've mastered an area of [insert discipline] by reading a few papers.
A lot of arts students are very critical and do not like making certain assumptions about how the world is or isn't. Other disciplines, in comparison, do make many assumptions. This is totally fine as we need to make assumptions in order to do certain practical things, like earn money. Is this what you're referring to Water with your dichotomy between enlightenment and money? (it's a false duality, but I can see where you're coming from).
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The "lamp of enlightenment" strikes again. :D
But I pretty much agree with your post Eriny.
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1 more question LOL
what exactly do you do in your arts honours year? i mean, what are the options?
Firstly you need to have done a major in the area you're wanting to do honours in
You generally do a supervised thesis - so you think of a topic that you're interested in, tell your supervisor and they'll approve it
I don't know about other disciplines but in language honours you also do 12 points worth (equivalent to 2 subjects) of seminars alongside your thesis. I'm not really sure what these seminars are though
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Any merit in doing a combined honours year at UoM for an English & Theatre/Politics and International Studies major. The appeal of writing a thesis and doing academic research is huge to me for a breadth of reasons but it'd be good to have some quantifiable benefits too.
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and it seems to be generally looked down upon, and seen as more of a broad degree for baristas/prelawyers/creative white kids
Even if this were true (and it isn't)...so what? Who gives a toss what other people think about it. There's no use not doing something you want to do because of what other people think, its your life, you only get one, no do-overs, so, you better do what you want.
and people with no specialisation or anything
I'm not sure what your idea of a specialisation is but in Arts you have a major (politics, international studies, german, philosophy, history, whatever) just like you do in science (physics, math, chemistry, biology, physiology, etc).
You still focus on an area in your field. Something like philosophy or politics is still an incredibly deep body of study.
so is it really worth getting? ive heard of companies hiring cross discipline from commerce to science to engineering etc. but never arts. so im just curious as to the value you see in it
Uni isn't a job factory or a vocational school, if you really want something thats directly applicable to a job (even though there seems to be a bit of a stigma too it around here) TAFE is what you're looking for or a professional degree at uni (eg. dentistry, nursing, medicine).
This thread is another good one to read - Merits of an Arts Degree?
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Any merit in doing a combined honours year at UoM for an English & Theatre/Politics and International Studies major. The appeal of writing a thesis and doing academic research is huge to me for a breadth of reasons but it'd be good to have some quantifiable benefits too.
Definitely - my personal belief (obviously a bit biased) is that English combined with a more "applied" Arts major is the best course of action, as English trains you to write and communicate very well, and is thus a really strong supplement to basically...everything.
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So how could an honours year with those two majors differentiate me from straight Arts graduates?
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Just a side note about B.A. La Trobe has a "Work Ready B.A" program and I'm curious about this and want some info on anyone who have done it before. Is it worth it?
Thanks
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Just a side note about B.A. La Trobe has a "Work Ready B.A" program and I'm curious about this and want some info on anyone who have done it before. Is it worth it?
Thanks
Feel free to look at the La Trobe handbook for additional information but to be honest, La Trobe has suffered numerous subject/staff cuts in the arts faculty recently.
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Just a side note about B.A. La Trobe has a "Work Ready B.A" program and I'm curious about this and want some info on anyone who have done it before. Is it worth it?
Thanks
Feel free to look at the La Trobe handbook for additional information but to be honest, La Trobe has suffered numerous subject/staff cuts in the arts faculty recently.
But I heard that the cut only apply to religion and Indonesian subjects which are not really relevant to me :)
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So how could an honours year with those two majors differentiate me from straight Arts graduates?
Well it just means you're better at the particular skills those two majors grant you (rigorous reading skills, analytic thinking, research, excellent writing) than most BA graduates. :p
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In terms of employment though, would it put me ahead of other candidates with otherwise identical tertiary qualifications? Not that that really matters to me, just curious.
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Just a side note about B.A. La Trobe has a "Work Ready B.A" program and I'm curious about this and want some info on anyone who have done it before. Is it worth it?
Thanks
Just had a look at the website. It seems like it's just a marketing strategy to me. Every university offers career workshops and guidance, exchanges, extra-curricular activities, work experience/internships (depending on your degree/major), and obviously the development of soft skills like communication skills and so on. I don't see how this would make you more 'work ready' than any other BA supplemented with a mix of activities outside of study. And besides, if you're really worried about being able to cope in the workforce get a part-time job or something. The workplace isn't some alien planet, anyone can function well if they have some common sense.
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In terms of employment though, would it put me ahead of other candidates with otherwise identical tertiary qualifications? Not that that really matters to me, just curious.
Would have those two honours years put you ahead of people who are identical minus them? Obviously :p Not sure what you're asking here bro :p
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Haha yeah I'm just a little bit confused because it's hard to tell exactly what kind of jobs would be available if you majored in English/Politics and how honours could augment the opportunities available. But yeah not a particularly bright question :P
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Haha yeah I'm just a little bit confused because it's hard to tell exactly what kind of jobs would be available if you majored in English/Politics and how honours could augment the opportunities available. But yeah not a particularly bright question :P
Well what kind of careers interest you? :)
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Whether doing a degree is a waste of time or not depends on a multitude of factors, including why you are doing the degree, what you actually want to work in later on and what you want out of your time at university in general.
My opinion is that any degree can technically be a waste of time. If you go into degree A and you get nothing out of that particular degree or you don't get what you want, then you are wasting your time, it's as simple as that. I agree, professional type degrees are generally seen (by students) as more useful because they tend to direct students down a more clear cut career path, but again, if you don't actually intend to make the most of the degree, then that's wasting time too.
I think only you can answer whether you think Arts is for you or not. If you truly have an interest in whatever major you intend to choose, then that's good, you're persuing an interest and you'll enjoy your degree and you'll be able to use it as a stepping stone to get you into further studies or employment.
If you don't really have an interest in Arts and have the intention of doing it just because it's easy to get into, just because you think it's a bludge or for no real reason in particular, then you won't really enjoy it and you won't find it worthwhile, you'll probably be scraping passes and credits through most of your degree and you'll end up with a piece of paper that won't mean much to you and you would have blown a few years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars. The same can be said for any degree, even say, Medicine, if you don't truly have an interest, don't truly want to become a doctor and you're doing it for the wrong reasons, you'll find it as a waste of time too.
A bit of a read, but tl;dr, it's worth your time if you think it is, not worth your time if you don't think it is, it's up to you and what you want.
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Haha yeah I'm just a little bit confused because it's hard to tell exactly what kind of jobs would be available if you majored in English/Politics and how honours could augment the opportunities available. But yeah not a particularly bright question :P
Well what kind of careers interest you? :)
That's kind of why I'm doing Arts, I have no idea :P I'm just good at English so I figured taking those skills to the next level would be the best and most prudent course of action for someone who'd want a career that could utilise analytical, writing and creative thinking abilities.
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Education is never a waste
^ deep.
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You can graduate with an Arts degree which gives you coherent skills and knowledge. The danger is that because it's a broad area of study, your subjects might be scattered all over the place.
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ive heard of companies hiring cross discipline from commerce to science to engineering etc. but never arts. so im just curious as to the value you see in it
Just curious, but which companies have you talked to? Or is this merely hearsay?
If you take a look at GradStats, you'd be surprised to see that arts and science graduates are on an equal footing in the full-time employment market. The percentages below are the number of graduates who have gained full-time employment within four months of graduating:
Arts
Humanities: 64.5% (down from 67.1% in 2002)
Languages: 65.3% (down from 71.3% in 2002)
Social Sciences: 63.7% (down from 71.2% in 2002)
Psychology: 63.7% (down from 65.4% in 2002)
Social Work: 77.3% (up from 77.2% in 2002)
Science
Life Sciences: 61.5% (down from 79.2% in 2002)
Mathematics: 71.9% (down from 72.6% in 2002)
Chemistry: 61.7% (down from 77.0% in 2002)
Physical Sciences: 70.2% (no direct data from 2002)
Sources: http://www.graduatecareers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/gca002770.pdf (2012 data); http://www.graduatecareers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/gca001218.pdf (2002 data)
As you can see, science graduates had the edge in the full-time employment market in 2002, but now they're relatively on par with arts graduates. A science background is nowhere near as attractive to employers as it used to be in 2002, with Chemistry and Life Sciences majors having a particularly tough time.
If you delve into those sources further, you'll see that the number of arts and science graduates in part-time/casual employment, as well as those who are unemployed and seeking work, are also very similar. Now, I have no issue with science students per se, but those studying science (as well as onlookers like yourself) who believe they have a greater chance of landing a full-time job over an arts student are seriously deluding themselves. Look at the data, then judge.
In any case, I studied a Bachelor of Arts. In addition to the various discipline-specific skills and knowledge that I gained through my English and History majors, the BA afforded me various opportunities to engage with the world critically and creatively and helped me become a more effective communicator, which, I feel, has transformed me into a better person. As I am now studying to become a teacher, I have no doubt that the skills, experience and knowledge gained through my BA will be an asset to my students in the future. That, to me, made the BA a worthwhile degree.
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^ On that, it would be interesting to see underemployment figures (as in, the number of Arts or Science graduates working in industries such as retail or hospitality who want a job more related to their degree), those are probably hard to collect though!
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Yeah, those of us in science degrees know its a not so well kept secret that a lot of majors dont have absolutely fantastic job prospects either.
We have a bit more direction and know where we're heading a bit better but even if that is true, jobs don't suddenly appear.
The market is flooded with graduates (i think a lot of problems we have are related to *too many* uni places being available, pharmacy for example) and honestly, there aren't all that many entry level jobs. Even now into my second year, i still know some people with a vague image of being a "scientist" and doing sciency things. A lot of the jobs are very low and entry level (eg. run this sample for the higher up scientists) and do things like that.
Everyone seems to want to do post-grad because there are so many undergrads...see the problem here? More debt for everyone and not necessarily greatly improved pay or secure prospects.
So, to the OP, don't think worries like this are necessarily unique to arts. I wouldn't let it throw you off.