MUEP, UMEP of VCE chemistry

[Nato]

Hello,

i am in yr.11 (doing methods 1/2 and chem 1/2, and picking up spesh 3/4 next year). i have recevied some recommendations (from teachers) to try and do a 'uni math subject'. I just wanted to know if it would be worth doing either MUEP or UMEP over VCE chemsitry 3/4. i ask this in terms of the workload, time needed to be put into each subject (assuming i am equally capable in both), and which is 'easier' to score higher in.
Strategically, i want to drop chem 3/4 for next year and pick up uni maths, because i will be able to have methods, spesh, english AND physics (which i love, and put a lot of effort to) in my top 4. am i correct by saying this?
I just wanted some advice/info/feedback about my thoughts especially from those who were in similar situations.
On top of this i want to ask the pros and cons of doing MUEP or UMEP (which closer to where i live).

some extra info i would like to add is i am doing quite well in Methods, concepts easy to grasp. although i am not officially enrolled in gma, i do it on the side, and haven't really faced difficulties.

Thanks for reading

[shadows]

I don't know a lot of people that doing Uni Chem compared to Uni Math.
What subject are you more stronger in?
I would suggest doing Uni Math seeing as it would really complement Physics, Spesh and Methods... xD.
Hang on, you are planning drop chem if doing uni math? Why not just do 5 subjects in year 12?

Did you do any 3/4s this year?

[Alwin]

Hmm, Chemistry...

sorry! I thought you meant muep chem, umep chem or vce chem not enhancement vs chem in general! -sorry!

UMEP Requirements
VCE requirements: Completion of Chemistry 3/4 and Mathematical Methods 3/4 in Year 11, or enrolment in Mathematical Methods 3/4 in Year 12 after completion of Chemistry 3/4 and Mathematical Methods 1/2 in Year 11.

I'm sorry, but I doubt they'll accept you. Mainly because in uni chem you learn why stuff happens not the superficial vce course


MUEP Requirements
Preparatory study: Chemistry
Completion of units 3 and 4 in Year 11 OR Concurrent enrolment in units 3 and 4 in Year 12

This is your only option for unichem of the two extension programs you mentioned, but you have do chem 3/4 next year as well, whereas you only want to do the MUEP chem. (so not possible either)

Now, uni maths:

1. Why drop chem? Do you not like it? Is it that you would prefer maths over chem? What courses are you looking into for uni?
    This is because some courses, eg med, have Chemistry as a prerequisite. Dropping chem could mean you miss out on your dream course

2. Hmm, UMEP or MUEP Maths. Both are similar for semester 1 (look at my sig if you're wondering how I know) but MUEP focusses more on series and calculus in semester 2
    The thing is, as you've quite rightly pointed out, an extension only counts as a fifth or sixth subject. Also, the marking system for UMEP is different, 90% of the assessment is in the form of the two exams at the end of the year, assignments are worth only 1.11%
    At MUEP, assignments are worth more (like 40% iirc) and the exam is... lets just say "not as hard" But, it's also a longer trip for you since you said that UMEP is closer to you.

BUT the stinger (sorry) is this:
UMEP MATHS Requirements
VCE requirements: Completion of Mathematical Methods 3/4 in Year 11 and enrolment in Specialist Mathematics 3/4 in Year 12, or concurrent enrolment in Mathematical Methods 3/4 and Specialist Mathematics 3/4 after completion of Mathematical Methods 1/2 and General Mathematics (Specialist Mathematics orientation) 1/2 in Year 11.

I think you can sit a test or something to prove you have all the knowledge of GMS 1/2 but not sure on that one. Sorry can't be more help on this problem


For more info:
Requirements for MUEP: http://www.monash.edu.au/extension/study-options/index.html
Requirements for UMEP: http://futurestudents.unimelb.edu.au/info/school-students/extension-program/subject-areas

Wish you all the best with your studies

[Nato]

incredibly sorry for the confusion. i don't want to do any kind of university chemistry. when i said "UMEP or MUEP' over VCE chemistry, i was referring to uni maths only. very sorry for this.

[Nato]

Btw, just so i can have a broad understanding of uni math, is there anyway to get 'assistance' or scholarships with MUEP maths ($900 is insane LOL)?

[Alwin]

Btw, just so i can have a broad understanding of uni math, is there anyway to get 'assistance' or scholarships with MUEP maths ($900 is insane LOL)?

I don’t think 900$ is that insane for a subject. For my intended course, aerospace engineering it’s
$ 8,850 AUD a year Then divide by however many subjects and maybe 900$ is kinda cheap? Only a bit more than the new iPhone 5S at 869$ for 16GB

UMEP (University of Melbourne Extension Program) Mathematics MAST10013
(Note this is a ONE semester course spread over an entire year, with two exams worth 90% of assessment in late November)
In the order that they appear in the notes:

• Linear Equations and Matrices
  • Basically solving linear equations by hand
  • Inverses, Determinants of square matrices of any size (some tutors will teach this apparently, remember helping my friend was doing this couple years ago when his tutor taught him this in year 12)
• Sets and Numbers
  • Number theory. Very formal stuff, like defining what natural numbers, prime numbers, rational numbers are and their properties (pure maths kinda)
  • Triangle inequality and some summation notion stuff
• Methods of Proof
  • Types of proofs and what is proof (oh so much fun =P)
  • Direct proof (axioms, definitions, lemmas etc) (your basic VCE proof), Mathematical induction (used to be on the methods course few years back), Contrapositive (somehow more confusing than it sounds but rarely appears on past exams), Proof by Contradiction (very popular), Exhaustion (buy a very expensive and power computer to text every case ^^)
• The complex exponential
  • Complex numbers, similar to spesh but using Euler’s rule (basically different notation)
  • Find the 72nd derivative (or something equally useless) of sin(x)e^x or similar using complex numbers
• Solid Geometry
  • Lines, points and planes in R^3. (not as easy as it sounds but similar to vectors in spesh)
  • Angles and distances between stuff (the infamous cross product of JMSS sacs are taught here)
• Determinants
  • Properties of determinants
  • Calculations with determinants
• Functions of Several Variables
  • Functions in three dimensional space. Sketching, contours (like in further) and surfaces
  • Partial derivatives (a bit like chain rule) and critical points (maxima and minima) and area of surfaces (integrals)
• Vector Spaces
  • Linear combinations, Linear dependence and linear independence (like in spesh I guess)
  • Subspaces, spanning sets, bases and coordinates (very abstract stuff)
• Inner Product Space
  • Extension of dot products (in spesh)
  • Orthogonal and orthonormal vectors (kind of like unit vectors and perpendicular vectors in spesh
• Linear Transformations
  • Transformations in 2 and 3 dimensions like graphs in methods
  • Image, kernel, rank and nullity
• Eigenvalues and Eigenvectors
  • Finding eigenvalues and eigenvectors and what they mean algebraically and geometrically
  • Applications of eigenvalues and eigenvectors, conic sections and quadric surfaces

 
 
MUEP (Monash University Extension Program) Mathematics MTH1040
(Note this is a two semester course, you can get a year’s credit for this study. two exams, worth 60% of assessment, one exam in early June and the other one in late October)
In the order that they were taught:

• Semester One - Linear Algebra
  • Assignment 1 - Dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's of cubes
    • Vectors in R^2 and R^3 as well as dot, vector and cross products (spesh)
    • Distances and angles in R^3 and the cauchy-schwarz inequality
    • Solution of systems of linear equations
  • Assignment 2 - Systems of Linear Equations in Action
    • Gaussian elimination, row reduced echelon form
    • Proof by induction
    • Matrix operators, inverses and determinants
  • Assignment 3 - Matrix Magic
    • Rank, image, kernel and special matrices (symmetric and triangular)
    • Linear transformations, eigenvectors and eigenvalues
    • Diagonalization of matrices, abstract vector spaces, applications of linear algebra
  • And lots of cube facts ^^
  
  
• Semester Two - Calculus
  • Assignment 4 - To Infinity and Beyond
    • Limits and continuity, l'Hȏpital’s rule, determinate and indeterminate forms
    • Infinite sequences and series using limits to test for convergence
    • Summation of series, sums of series and radius of convergence
  • Assignment 5 - To infinity, one step at a time
    • Tests for converging and diverging series, ratio test, root test
    • Alternating series, absolute convergence, alternating series remainder estimate
    • Taylor series and power series of sin(x), cos(x), sinh(x), cosh(x), e^x, a^x, interval of convergence
  • Assignment 6 - Your final mission
    • Techniques of integration and improper integrals, integration by parts, partial fractions, substitution
    • Differential equations, separable equations, linear first and second order equations, mathematical modelling, systems of differential equations using linear algebra
    • Fundamentals of multivariable calculus, partial derivatives, solving Des with power series
  • Quite a few maths jokes ^^
  
  Hope this list in comprehensive enough
  
  Many of the parts of semester one of MUEP overlap with the UMEP course whereas semester two of MUEP is quite different from the UMEP course
  
  
  Good luck with your decisions =]
  

[Nato]

thanks soo much Alwin, this is seriously helping me towards my decision.
by the way, is it safe to say that UMEP is harder than MUEP? (this is one of my main concerns)
and do classes only run once a week?

sorry for the multiple questions, just want to make a safe decision lol.

seriously appreciate your efforts in helping me, Alwin

[Alwin]

thanks soo much Alwin, this is seriously helping me towards my decision.
by the way, is it safe to say that UMEP is harder than MUEP? (this is one of my main concerns)
and do classes only run once a week?

sorry for the multiple questions, just want to make a safe decision lol.

seriously appreciate your efforts in helping me, Alwin

No problem Student0001

Yes, the classes run only once a week for both MUEP and UMEP.
However, most years only the Monash Uni Campus one runs for MUEP, whereas UMEP runs at many school centres. BUT, some I hear are "better" than others in term of teaching style, for example my sessions are 2 hour lectures then 1 hour tute. At some other centres its just the lecture, so you have to stay back to ask questions etc. Also, the session times are listed here:
Scroll down to the "Mathematics: Extension Program Mathematics for High-Achieving Students" section and click on it
The MUEP on campus one runs after schools on Monday from 4.30 to 6.30.  Just lecture, you can stay back to ask questions

Now, for the other part of your question. "Hard" is quite a subjective term, so I'll try give an objective description:

MUEP:
Having done the semester two exam and attended the majority of the course, the majority is based on proofs and very little rote learning. For example, on the exam we had to semi-derive semi-prove a second derivative formula like first principles in methods. You get a cheat sheet for the exam, but it's not that much use as the emphasis is on "explain" and "prove" and "link" one specific question to a generalisation.

Overall, it hits upon multiple topics, almost double the umep amount since this is a full year course and the lecturer Burkard Polster presents it in an interesting, easy-to-understand manner


UMEP:
The exams are in a month, but looking at past exams it's very rigorous and covers topics in a bit more depth than MUEP in some areas because it is a one semester course spread over one year. There also is a great focus on rigorous proofs and the questions in exams are more structured and multiparted in comparison to a say, 10 mark proof question in MUEP.

Overall, covers less topic but since it's spread out over double the time there are more formal proofs as to why stuff works, what natural number are, and is a bit more abstract. Also, it depends a bit on what lecturer you have, since it depends on the school centre AND I should warn you that not all school centres run every year.


I actually would suggest applying for both and go to MUEP and UMEP for the first two weeks or so to decided which one you prefer. You're allowed to do this. MUEP doesn't charge any money or make any record if you drop out / change your mind within the first month.

Good luck with your decision + exams

PS: I think I will add a personal opinion,
Level of mathematics:  UMEP > MUEP    because it is more rigorous
Range of mathematics:  MUEP > UMEP    because it covers more
Interestingness:  MUEP > UMEP   because I like the lecturer
Class:  MUEP > UMEP  because I like the people in muep and there's only 5 in my umep class compared to 15
Facilities:  MUEP > UMEP  because UMEP is just at my own school and I find exploring monash uni before muep pretty fun

But yeah, up to you Also, I want to go to Monash University so I might be a little bit biased towards MUEP

[Nato]

man, you've answer so much thanks.

just got another question lol

which has a greater workload vce chemsitry or MUEP math, generally? Another main reason of mine choosing to do a uni subject is to decrease my workload next year, would it be worth it in this sense?

also is there like a limit to how many can attend the monash campus?. because the other three locations are wayyy to far!

[Alwin]

man, you've answer so much thanks.

just got another question lol

which has a greater workload vce chemsitry or MUEP math, generally? Another main reason of mine choosing to do a uni subject is to decrease my workload next year, would it be worth it in this sense?

also is there like a limit to how many can attend the monash campus?. because the other three locations are wayyy to far!

IMO MUEP is the least workload, most of the class compare answers for the assignments so majority does well on these and most of the class winged the exams... so you could say that there isn't that great of a workload lol
UMEP is same, but studying for the exam is a lot, coz it's going back for the whole year.

VCE chem is more work throughout the year, but if you know your stuff you don't have to cram for exams like I'm doing for UMEP and did for MUEP haha


I think the limit at the Clayton Campus which is where it's held is a normal lecture class... 100 students I think lawl

[spectroscopy]

is it just me or does this post make it look like math at monash is fun with things such as "matrix magic" and "to infinity and beyond"

[Nato]

1) Also, would it be in anyway recommended to do MUEP maths while still completing methods 3/4 (not having done it in year 11)?
2) Also, would it be recommended for someone who is aiming for about 35-40 in methods and spesh?
2) how does the grading system work? are you competing against everyone in the class, or is it simply how you perform?


thanks