VCE English Question Thread

[cosine]

Would reading books improve my english skills? And is it a good idea to read other books in year 12 besides our school ones? Thanks

[brenden]

Would reading books improve my english skills? And is it a good idea to read other books in year 12 besides our school ones? Thanks

Yes and yes .

[cosine]

Yes and yes .

Hahaha thank you

[literally lauren]

Hey Lauren,

With regards to your lecture today, particularly with language analysis, I've previously been told to structure my ideas into different effects on stakeholders, and the different tonal shifts/language/etc. used for each stakeholder and how they vary according to whom the writer is "talking to". (e.g. in Martin Luther King's speech, he addresses the American people, the American government, and his fellow black Americans - and so you would structure your paragraphs around these three groups of targeted audiences). However, as you said today, we should perhaps aim to split our paragraphs into ideas and concepts raised. My question is, could you explain your way of splitting it into ideas and concepts a bit further, and would you recommend using one or the other, or can you use a mix of the two? If so, how would you go about doing this?

Awesome lecture today by the way!

Much thanks!

Now that the lecture is over, I'm in the process of compiling a full guide to the whole 'key players' thing, since I felt like a raced through it and I know some people will be totally unfamiliar with those concepts. It'll be posted here when ready

Stakeholders don't have to be a person - it's just something the author has an opinion on.

I think the issue many people have with this kind of terminology is that every teacher/ school has their own definitions. So what Zezima describes as stakeholders, I would call non-abstracted key players. Whereas the 'stakeholders' I learned about were the people with vested interests in the issue; <-- an essentially useless label because there's not always multiple persons or groups involved.

For example, this is how you would use the stakeholder approach would work.
Body paragraph one: American society (analyse everything said about this)
Body paragraph two: Racism; repeat above
Body paragraph three: Racist people; repeat above.

This would be a variation on the example I gave in the lecture, except I tended to expand the players to incorporate part of the contention (kind of like what you were doing with tone)
Eg.
BP1: The way American society should strive to be more inclusive
BP2: The damaging effects of racism
BP3: How racist people are extremely misguided
Or some such variation of the above. The exact focus would be up to you; the assessor's don't have a set list of right/wrong breakdowns, it's just about what suits your writing style, and what helps you give a full sense of the piece(s).

I guess it comes down to the semantics of what an 'argument' is; <-- a very interesting discussion that would be best to ignore for the sake of not over-complicating VCE English

So like I said yesterday, if you have a system that works for you, stick with it!
The reason I recommend having longer, more expansive ideas is because if you're a student who's been structuring by techniques, or barely considering structure at all, jumping straight into dividing arguments and ideas can be daunting, so that contention provides more focus. I've also found it way simpler for the more difficult articles where there's either only one real 'stakeholder' (a la 2011 exam) or when there are so many stakeholders that grouping them becomes unrealistic.

But I made a deliberate effort to explore other structures as well, since provided you're aware of the potential drawbacks in structuring by tone and/or argument, you'll be thinking on your toes and they shouldn't be too much of a concern.

Would reading books improve my english skills? And is it a good idea to read other books in year 12 besides our school ones? Thanks

Without a doubt, and good god yes.

[cosine]

Hey lauren,

I am currently reading my book again and composing quotes and important things to note, is this a good idea?

[literally lauren]

Hey lauren,

I am currently reading my book again and composing quotes and important things to note, is this a good idea?

Definitely, but you'll be adding to your quote bank throughout the year, so don't feel like you have to pick up on everything on the first/ second read-through. In fact, you kind of need to experience running into a prompt you can't handle in order to discover new themes/ Views&Values messages, so that you can then return to the text and look for how these themes or V&Vs would be present.
Start on the major stuff now, but keep it open as a work in progres (at least until you choose which text you'll write on for the exam.)

[cosine]

Definitely, but you'll be adding to your quote bank throughout the year, so don't feel like you have to pick up on everything on the first/ second read-through. In fact, you kind of need to experience running into a prompt you can't handle in order to discover new themes/ Views&Values messages, so that you can then return to the text and look for how these themes or V&Vs would be present.
Start on the major stuff now, but keep it open as a work in progres (at least until you choose which text you'll write on for the exam.)

Alright thank you!!

[g1mp1e]

Now that the lecture is over, I'm in the process of compiling a full guide to the whole 'key players' thing, since I felt like a raced through it and I know some people will be totally unfamiliar with those concepts. It'll be posted here when ready
I think the issue many people have with this kind of terminology is that every teacher/ school has their own definitions. So what Zezima describes as stakeholders, I would call non-abstracted key players. Whereas the 'stakeholders' I learned about were the people with vested interests in the issue; <-- an essentially useless label because there's not always multiple persons or groups involved. This would be a variation on the example I gave in the lecture, except I tended to expand the players to incorporate part of the contention (kind of like what you were doing with tone)
Eg.
BP1: The way American society should strive to be more inclusive
BP2: The damaging effects of racism
BP3: How racist people are extremely misguided
Or some such variation of the above. The exact focus would be up to you; the assessor's don't have a set list of right/wrong breakdowns, it's just about what suits your writing style, and what helps you give a full sense of the piece(s).

I guess it comes down to the semantics of what an 'argument' is; <-- a very interesting discussion that would be best to ignore for the sake of not over-complicating VCE English

So like I said yesterday, if you have a system that works for you, stick with it!
The reason I recommend having longer, more expansive ideas is because if you're a student who's been structuring by techniques, or barely considering structure at all, jumping straight into dividing arguments and ideas can be daunting, so that contention provides more focus. I've also found it way simpler for the more difficult articles where there's either only one real 'stakeholder' (a la 2011 exam) or when there are so many stakeholders that grouping them becomes unrealistic.

But I made a deliberate effort to explore other structures as well, since provided you're aware of the potential drawbacks in structuring by tone and/or argument, you'll be thinking on your toes and they shouldn't be too much of a concern.
Without a doubt, and good god yes.

Alright cool, I'll be sure to try to use both then
Thanks Zezima and Lauren for the help!
Just another question regarding the year 12 oral, I am just looking for some ways to start off an oral? Lauren, you said in the lecture yesterday that we perhaps could use an anecdote, but are there any other interesting ways?
I quite like the idea of cutting straight to a news story/real life scenario, but looking for others.
E.g. I'm doing the issue of capital punishment.

Thanks again!

[brenden]

Alright cool, I'll be sure to try to use both then
Thanks Zezima and Lauren for the help!
Just another question regarding the year 12 oral, I am just looking for some ways to start off an oral? Lauren, you said in the lecture yesterday that we perhaps could use an anecdote, but are there any other interesting ways?
I quite like the idea of cutting straight to a news story/real life scenario, but looking for others.
E.g. I'm doing the issue of capital punishment.

Thanks again!

Recite what would be said to the prisoner pre-execution. "eg... "Applying sponge. Attaching electrodes. Do you have any last words?" (obviously not the words lol... not even sure if there's a procedure for it), and then be like "YO FOOLS WOULD YOU WANT THIS SAID TO YOU I DON'T THINK SO".

[M_BONG]

Recite what would be said to the prisoner pre-execution. "eg... "Applying sponge. Attaching electrodes. Do you have any last words?" (obviously not the words lol... not even sure if there's a procedure for it), and then be like "YO FOOLS WOULD YOU WANT THIS SAID TO YOU I DON'T THINK SO".

Bahahahha I like how you automatically assume that s/he would be against capital punishment

[Splash-Tackle-Flail]

Hello everyone,

For English, my school is doing a new text for Unit 3: "I for Isobel". I have read it-  and imo it was painful to read but I did it in the end. However now I've read it once I really don't know what to do- and while there are some study guides on the internet, most of them are paid and/or aren't catered to the VCE course. What do you think I should do for this text? Especially since I'm quite set on doing war poems for the exam, but I still have to do a sac on I for isobel -.- .

Edit: Just read OP, and realised this probably relates to text specific advice (but could be extended to all new texts?) Sorry! Would it be possible to move this post to a new thread somehow?

[literally lauren]

Just another question regarding the year 12 oral, I am just looking for some ways to start off an oral? Lauren, you said in the lecture yesterday that we perhaps could use an anecdote, but are there any other interesting ways?
I quite like the idea of cutting straight to a news story/real life scenario, but looking for others.
E.g. I'm doing the issue of capital punishment.

Depends what you want the audience to feel. First, try to set up your issue in a more complex way; 'doing the issue of capital punishment' doesn't give you much direction. See if you can construct a contention that's more sophisticated than just 'CP = good/bad.' After that you can start to consider how you want to persuade their audience, eg. will your primary focus be on injustice, thereby appealing to the audience's trust (or lack thereof) in the legal system, or would you focus on the emotional/moral side? etc.
Anecdotes don't always have to be in the form of third person story telling either. You could use either the first or second person to make the issue more confronting, using real or hypothetical scenarios.
Another thing to consider is what you want the audience's response to be. This is slightly different from how you want them to feel, as the latter has more to do with attitudes and beliefs, whereas the response should be in the form of a behaviour or action. You don't have to go into a lot of depth telling people to write letters to the government or anything, but you couldn't have a persuasive speech that just rants about how good or bad capital punishment is. You have to do something with that momentum
eg.
1. Capital punishment is awful. Around the world, many people are killed for crimes they didn't commit, and this is unfair.
2. Capital punishment is awful and reflects poorly on society. Australia should not even be considering the prospect of bringing it back due to all the pain and injustice associated with it.
^Reductive arguments, but see how the second is more effective given its direction? This kind of bridges back around to having a strong contention, not just an interesting issue.
The main thing is that your intro is engaging, and relates to your arguments in a way that persuades the audience. Other than that, you have pretty much free creative license.

Hello everyone,

For English, my school is doing a new text for Unit 3: "I for Isobel". I have read it-  and imo it was painful to read but I did it in the end. However now I've read it once I really don't know what to do- and while there are some study guides on the internet, most of them are paid and/or aren't catered to the VCE course. What do you think I should do for this text? Especially since I'm quite set on doing war poems for the exam, but I still have to do a sac on I for isobel -.- .

Edit: Just read OP, and realised this probably relates to text specific advice (but could be extended to all new texts?) Sorry! Would it be possible to move this post to a new thread somehow?

IFI was on the English list ages ago (~2002 I think) and since the format for Text Response back in the day was ostensibly the same, you might be able to find some study guides or online materials around.
You don't have to rely on these though (see previous recommendations in response to cosine's questions.) Developing your own resources will probably be more helpful in the long run anyway.
If you're already fairly set on your Semester 2 text instead, then use your first text as an experimentation of note-taking and study techniques. Obviously the differences between a novel and a poetry collection (or a play, film, or other text for that matter) will necessitate a slightly different approach, but you can still use Semester 1 as an experience in fine-tuning the way you deal with the text, from the initial readings to the last-minute SAC preparation.
Work out whether you prefer spending several weeks analysing and dissecting the text before attempting full essays, or whether you like writing pieces alongside your study as you learn more and more. And you'll also be able to fine any general weak spots when it comes to Text Response

[twinkling star]

I just wished to check this- is there a difference between how you write a text response for a Unit 3 SAC compared to a Unit 4 SAC?

'Cos the performance descriptor for the Unit 3 text response says 'Analyse, either orally or in writing, how a selected text constructs meaning, conveys ideas and values, and is open to a range of interpretations'

...whereas the performance descriptor for the Unit 4 text response says 'Develop and justify a detailed interpretation of a selected text'

And if there is a difference between the responses required for each unit, would you write in the Unit 3 or the Unit 4 style for the exam's section 1?

Thanks! 

[knightrider]

When mentioned in criteria or questions what  "social, cultural and historical values are evident".

What does this actually mean.

what do they want us to state or expect us to include in our writing.

[literally lauren]

I just wished to check this- is there a difference between how you write a text response for a Unit 3 SAC compared to a Unit 4 SAC?

'Cos the performance descriptor for the Unit 3 text response says 'Analyse, either orally or in writing, how a selected text constructs meaning, conveys ideas and values, and is open to a range of interpretations'

...whereas the performance descriptor for the Unit 4 text response says 'Develop and justify a detailed interpretation of a selected text'

And if there is a difference between the responses required for each unit, would you write in the Unit 3 or the Unit 4 style for the exam's section 1?

Thanks! 

Short answer: No, the Semester 1 and 2 Text Responses are the same, just on different texts.
Long answer: No, because the Study Design is stupidly written and offers schools a bunch of choices none of them take. Technically speaking, any one of the tasks you do in Semester 1 can be in oral form, as the Design requires 1/4 (that is, a L.A. T.R. Context piece, and persuasive/POV) except every single school I know choses to make the persuasive piece the oral task.
You're also technically allowed to bring in more resources for the Unit 3 text, though most teachers discourage this because they're trying to make the SACs throughout the year as similar as possible to the exam task unlike some other subjects *coughLiteraturecough*

This is kind of bridging into knightrider's question:

When mentioned in criteria or questions what  "social, cultural and historical values are evident".

What does this actually mean.

what do they want us to state or expect us to include in our writing.

Every T.R. text is chosen for, amongst other things, its ability to relate to a social or historical context. This might be in the time the text is set (eg. This Boy's Life, Stasiland) or the time the author is writing (eg. Cloudstreet, Brooklyn) or both (eg. Henry IV, White Tiger.) Most texts still support both discussions, so what the assessors are looking for is an awareness of how certain values can be seen or presented in the text. You can look at this from either the author or audience's perspective. Not every argument lends itself to this kind of discussion, and you shouldn't base your entire contention on a wider message, but the socio-historical stuff makes for good 'zoomed out' discussion. It's usually pretty hard to form a proper interpretation of the text without an understanding of what the author is trying to say overall; just don't rely too heavily on it in your essays.

Pro tip: If you're integrating some background information, weave it into a sentence with textual discussion
Rather than: 'The idea of body image is something that has plagued young people throughout modern age. The Very Hungry Caterpillar critiques the idea that self-worth should be derived solely from one's external appearance.'
Transition more fluidly: 'The Very Hungry Caterpillar critiques the idea that self-worth should be derived solely from one's external appearance, thereby forming part of Carle's commentary on the wealth of body dysmorphic problems in the modern age.'
In that first example, you risk not getting credit for the first sentence because it doesn't relate to the text; you're just commenting on the context. In the second, however; you can almost trick the assessor into seeing the connection just by combining the sentences.

So in terms of the actual range of interpretations part:
The words whilst, although, despite, and whereas are your greatest allies. You're not expected to spend a great deal of time on alternate interpretations, but an easy way of doing it is to say something like:
'Whilst the caterpillar's journey could be viewed as one of blissful ignorance, there is an underlying sense of self-realisation and enlightenment in the text.'
I've just drawn a distinction between my contention (self-realisation is important to the caterpillar's journey) and an alternate interpretation (the caterpillar is blissfully ignorant.)
Words like 'although,' 'whilst' etc. force you to add that extra clause as a way of challenging interpretations, so include them every so often and you should be fine for this category.

Of course, there's every possibility that your teacher will have a totally different 'interpretation' of the criteria so check with them in case there are any bizarre requirements they want you to fulfill.