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March 29, 2024, 08:52:00 am

Author Topic: --Tell me about Literature--  (Read 11015 times)  Share 

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Nick

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2008, 07:01:37 pm »
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You're stating the obvious there. I was referring more to the relationship "hell" has with studying a novel with a homosexual character?
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Rietie

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2008, 07:21:33 pm »
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Is Voltman Catholic?
I'm Catholic and I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality. I also don't see how Catholicism objects to a Catholic person reading about a homosexual in a book. The Church is against homosexuals engaging in anything sexual, but I don't believe they are against homosexuality itself (or maybe I'm wrong?)

I also don't see how I will go to hell for not even committing a sin - reading about homosexuality is not a sin nor is it part of the 10 Commandments (nor is being homosexual or engaging in sodomy). I also don't believe I will enter hell for doing this as I don't believe in hell, or heaven for that matter - instead I believe in a place where all spirits/souls of humans go, where white bunnies jump past, where there is eternal sunshine (where I won't get burnt) and where I can eat an endless supply of chocolate fudge without paying for it or gaining weight from it.

Can I also ask what is so 'wrong' with homosexuality. Research has proven that people who are homosexual are actually born that way - it is not something they can change. So why should they be 'punished' for something they are born with and feel right about?

And why the hell should they change the study design, just because you can't read a book that has things inside it that you don't agree with. I hated Mr Wickham in Pride and Prejudice and hated the way in which people treated Lydia just for having sex with a man before marriage, but that doesn't stop me from loving the book.

And what do you mean by 'religious conscious people'? What exactly are you suggesting with that?

One other question: what are you planning to study at university, if that is what you want to do? I sure hope you don't do anything in the Arts faculty as you probably won't agree with half of what is said.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 07:34:39 pm by Rietie »
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Voltman

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2008, 07:34:34 pm »
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You're stating the obvious there. I was referring more to the relationship "hell" has with studying a novel with a homosexual character?

LOL, now you're  stating the obvious.

Homosexuality has everything to do with Hell. In fact, in some countries showing certain things indicating this can get you prosecuted severely and sometimes even to death. But of course everyone has their own opinion on this matter. So, I'd hate to stir some sort of 'uproar' or uncertainties in one's own religions or beliefs (that is why I am a bit reluctant on stating my religion).

Anyway to clarify, I am not a religious 'nut' or even catholic for that matter. But homosexuality or something similar in a book (pornographic) is something I disagree with (I'm sure like many).
I am also aware that people do not choose to be gay or not, so it is not this that ticks but the many different ways that it can be expressed (i.e. in books). It passes on the message that it is an okay thing, something that it isn't.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 07:38:21 pm by Voltman »

Rietie

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2008, 07:36:08 pm »
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So you're against the freedom to freely express your imagination, ideas and whatever on paper and then get it published?

What is this book that you're so against?
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Voltman

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2008, 07:43:13 pm »
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So you're against the freedom to freely express your imagination, ideas and whatever on paper and then get it published?

No, you're twisting my words. I am not against the freedom to freely express within restrictions. I believe that people should be able publish whatever...let's say pornography they like as long as they keep it to themselves and don't share it with a vast amount of people.

EDIT: People should have the right to not see that pornography or whatever it is that is being considered.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 07:47:38 pm by Voltman »

Rietie

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2008, 08:00:24 pm »
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Can you answer my question: what book are we talking about?

And how pornographic are you talking about?

Funnily, this reminds me of Keats' poetry and the poem Eve of St Agnes, which involves the orgasm of the female through oral sex. Was hilarious to read in class, with my teacher snorting in between laughing :D
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Voltman

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2008, 08:04:37 pm »
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Funnily, this reminds me of Keats' poetry and the poem Eve of St Agnes, which involves the orgasm of the female through oral sex. Was hilarious to read in class, with my teacher snorting in between laughing :D

Oh, my goodness. Sounds ghastly.

EDIT: Sorry, honestly I can't remember. I was trying not listen to wrongs. Though it looked like a pretty old one. And even if I did, I wouldn't mention it in this thread. As said before, I am against its 'advertisement'. However, the teacher did warn us that it had some strong emotions involved and many things he described as being 'below the belt' if you know what I mean.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 08:16:01 pm by Voltman »

Rietie

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2008, 08:20:18 pm »
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Funnily, this reminds me of Keats' poetry and the poem Eve of St Agnes, which involves the orgasm of the female through oral sex. Was hilarious to read in class, with my teacher snorting in between laughing :D

Oh, my goodness. Sounds ghastly.


Ghastly? Um no. More like beautiful, but also erotic:

  Awakening up, he took her hollow lute,—   
  Tumultuous,—and, in chords that tenderest be,          
  He play’d an ancient ditty, long since mute,   
  In Provence call’d, “La belle dame sans mercy:”   
  Close to her ear touching the melody;—   
  Wherewith disturb’d, she utter’d a soft moan:   
  He ceased—she panted quick—and suddenly          
  Her blue affrayed eyes wide open shone:   
Upon his knees he sank, pale as smooth-sculptured stone.   
 

  Her eyes were open, but she still beheld,   
  Now wide awake, the vision of her sleep:   
  There was a painful change, that nigh expell’d          
  The blisses of her dream so pure and deep   
  At which fair Madeline began to weep,   
  And moan forth witless words with many a sigh;   
  While still her gaze on Porphyro would keep;   
  Who knelt, with joined hands and piteous eye,          
Fearing to move or speak, she look’d so dreamingly.   
 

  “Ah, Porphyro!” said she, “but even now   
  “Thy voice was at sweet tremble in mine ear,   
  “Made tuneable with every sweetest vow;   
  “And those sad eyes were spiritual and clear:          
  “How chang’d thou art! how pallid, chill, and drear!   
  “Give me that voice again, my Porphyro,   
  “Those looks immortal, those complainings dear!   
  “Oh leave me not in this eternal woe,   
“For if thou diest, my Love, I know not where to go.”          
 

  Beyond a mortal man impassion’d far   
  At these voluptuous accents, he arose,   
  Ethereal, flush’d, and like a throbbing star   
  Seen mid the sapphire heaven’s deep repose;   
  Into her dream he melted, as the rose          
  Blendeth its odour with the violet,—   
  Solution sweet: meantime the frost-wind blows   
  Like Love’s alarum pattering the sharp sleet   
Against the window-panes; St. Agnes’ moon hath set.   
 
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psychlaw

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2008, 08:25:46 pm »
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I just don't understand how people see beauty in poetry. Its just annoying, analysing it and all,:P

Don't know why people actually write using metaphors and confusing language when they can just write "normally"

BTW I didn't understand that poem, nor did I see any links to oral sex.... Guess I'm Poetically Challenged

Rietie

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2008, 08:29:20 pm »
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Oral sex:
playing a tune on her 'hollow lute', 'moan', 'panted', etc.

Sex:
'he arose, ethereal, flush’d, and like a throbbing star', 'solution sweet'

The part of the poem is basically about Pophyro entering Madeline's chamber, and then having sex with her. However she thinks she is dreaming as she was following some religious rite where then she would dream of the man she would marry/love, so she believes sex is part of the dream.
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Rietie

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2008, 08:30:29 pm »
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I just don't understand how people see beauty in poetry. Its just annoying, analysing it and all,:P

Don't know why people actually write using metaphors and confusing language when they can just write "normally"

BTW I didn't understand that poem, nor did I see any links to oral sex.... Guess I'm Poetically Challenged

I hope you realise you're dissing one of the greatest poets who ever lived, but who only lived to he was 25 (I think - or maybe to 21?)
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bubble sunglasses

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2008, 08:57:02 pm »
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So you're against the freedom to freely express your imagination, ideas and whatever on paper and then get it published?

No, you're twisting my words. I am not against the freedom to freely express within restrictions. I believe that people should be able publish whatever...let's say pornography they like as long as they keep it to themselves and don't share it with a vast amount of people.

EDIT: People should have the right to not see that pornography or whatever it is that is being considered.

 I agree with what you said here, Voltman. In all 3 Englishes you're liable to be exposed to stuff potentially  disturbing or distressing to some people.
  However, it was unnecessary to have previously exposed yourself [do excuse me ;)] as a homophobe and a bigot.

lishan515

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2008, 09:03:49 pm »
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Oral sex:
playing a tune on her 'hollow lute', 'moan', 'panted', etc.

Sex:
'he arose, ethereal, flush’d, and like a throbbing star', 'solution sweet'

The part of the poem is basically about Pophyro entering Madeline's chamber, and then having sex with her. However she thinks she is dreaming as she was following some religious rite where then she would dream of the man she would marry/love, so she believes sex is part of the dream.

Keats :) St Agnes was initially going to have more erotic scenes - but his publisher wouldn't publish it - (I vaguely remember that being mentioned in a crit) - born 1795 - died 1921 = he was 25...

This made me die of laughter when I read it -Bryon - Keats work was "a sort of mental masturbation... I don't mean he is indecent, but viciously soliciting his ideas with a state, which is neither poetry nor anything else but a Bedlam vision produced by raw pork and opium"

ALSO: of relevancy to the debate at hand: "lynching is to justice as censorship is to art"- which in turn links to the Henderson art debate. I think that the debate that you have been having is similar to the essence of Literature (the subject). Personal experiences is linked to the way in which you "read" things and inform your understanding and importantly your interpretation. However, you need to be exposed to opinions of others to inform the interpretation. I think this links back to your first question - What is Lit? Lit requires debate, however it also requires open mindedness.

Although I do not understand your cultural background, nor would I blink an eyelid at a homosexual character in a text, you are entitled to your opinions. However I think an issue of concern in the community at large is the extent we are allowed to express ourselves freely without persecution. I think if the study design prohibited texts such as this unnamed text, from appearing it would infer a political statement and would be active discrimination against homosexual people.

 Perhaps, as you feel so strongly against this text and are unwilling to give poetry a chance, then you would fare better in a different subject.

Voltman

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2008, 09:10:20 pm »
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BTW I didn't understand that poem, nor did I see any links to oral sex.... Guess I'm Poetically Challenged

"In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite"- Paul Dirac (1902-84)

bubble sunglasses

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Re: --Tell me about Literature--
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2008, 04:54:21 pm »
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Funnily, this reminds me of Keats' poetry and the poem Eve of St Agnes, which involves the orgasm of the female through oral sex. Was hilarious to read in class, with my teacher snorting in between laughing :D

Oh, my goodness. Sounds ghastly.

EDIT: Sorry, honestly I can't remember. I was trying not listen to wrongs. Though it looked like a pretty old one. And even if I did, I wouldn't mention it in this thread. As said before, I am against its 'advertisement'. However, the teacher did warn us that it had some strong emotions involved and many things he described as being 'below the belt' if you know what I mean.
BTW I didn't understand that poem, nor did I see any links to oral sex.... Guess I'm Poetically Challenged

"In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite"- Paul Dirac (1902-84)

 lol, if poetry is so abstruse then you'll be spared from being aware of it pertaining to "wrongs" :)

   Edit: ZOMG i average exactly 2 posts per day atm :D

   
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 04:58:23 pm by bubble sunglasses »