ATAR Notes: Forum
Administration => Announcements => Topic started by: brenden on June 23, 2017, 04:52:33 pm
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Hey all!
So, when you click "show unread topics" or "show unread VCE topics" etc - the page you see is dominated by orange, dominated by stickies.
For the most part, those stickies are question threads.
Now... the point of a sticky is to keep it at the topic of a child board. I.e., SCIENCE -> CHEMISTRY -> (sticky post) CHEMISTRY RESOURCES.
A Chemistry resource thread never gets posted in so, without a sticky, it would disappear. So we sticky it, so it stays up the top when you go into that board.
Now, Question threads don't have this problem... They are going to stay at the top of a board regardless, because they are so active! And when we sticky so many, we have this weird, ugly blocks of white and orange in the Unread posts page. IMO, most of those threads should be white, with a few key threads having the orange highlighting - otherwise it just defeats the whole purpose.
What do you think?
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Is there a way to remove the stickied threads from the unread list? Or to make them appear as though they aren't stickied in the unread list?
I dunno.... I feel like the 'stickied' threads are important and valued, they have a special place at the top of each board for a reason.
I mean.. it could be argued that the forum games and general chat and all those academically irrelevant threads clog up the unread list too.
That's just my view on it anyway.
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Is there a way to remove the stickied threads from the unread list? Or to make them appear as though they aren't stickied in the unread list?
I dunno.... I feel like the 'stickied' threads are important and valued, they have a special place at the top of each board for a reason.
I mean.. it could be argued that the forum games and general chat and all those academically irrelevant threads clog up the unread list too.
That's just my view on it anyway.
Joey is extremely hesitant to write custom code for the SMF side of the forum - he said a better solution would be to migrate away from SMF entirely (hasn't been updated in a few years, will become untenable with WordPress eventually, so on so forth).
I'm not against sticky threads. I WANT them at the top of the board. But for things like question threads, they WILL BE at the top of the boards anyway!
Forum Games and general chat definitely clog, but they aren't visually dominant. You can still look at other threads. IMO, so many stickies is so visually dominant, it's pretty hard to see other non-stickied threads - people asking questions and stuff like that.
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It would be nice if you could remove stickied threads from the unread list. Maybe exclude certain posts or something? Stickied threads are amazing though, I like how it's always in that one place and is really useful.
I like the way it is atm :) I rarely use the last unread function anyway ( honestly I just realised it exists ): ) but I assume others do.
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It would be nice if you could remove stickied threads from the unread list. Maybe exclude certain posts or something? Stickied threads are amazing though, I like how it's always in that one place and is really useful.
I like the way it is atm :) I rarely use the last unread function anyway ( honestly I just realised it exists ): ) but I assume others do.
??? so how do you even read posts?!
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Joey is extremely hesitant to write custom code for the SMF side of the forum - he said a better solution would be to migrate away from SMF entirely
This would be amazing. Definitely consider it.
(soz for offtopic)
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Joey is extremely hesitant to write custom code for the SMF side of the forum - he said a better solution would be to migrate away from SMF entirely (hasn't been updated in a few years, will become untenable with WordPress eventually, so on so forth).
I'm not against sticky threads. I WANT them at the top of the board. But for things like question threads, they WILL BE at the top of the boards anyway!
Forum Games and general chat definitely clog, but they aren't visually dominant. You can still look at other threads. IMO, so many stickies is so visually dominant, it's pretty hard to see other non-stickied threads - people asking questions and stuff like that.
I know they'll be at the top but something about the orange makes it special :D
Is there any way of rolling this out to specific users? ( Pilot conversion for ya IPT fellas :D ) I would be more then glad to participate.
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I rarely use the last unread function anyway
Now that I think about it.. I rarely use it either. I just go browsing and use the 'Recent Posts' section where it shows the last 10 and go from there.
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??? so how do you even read posts?!
I just go onto Forums>HSC (leaderboard if I feel like feeling inferior to Jamon ;) ) and browse from there. Idk though, I'm weird
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Now that I think about it.. I rarely use it either. I just go browsing and use the 'Recent Posts' section where it shows the last 10 and go from there.
Recent post is really handy. I have a select few forums I usually post at and that's where I go first.
I found this post in the sidebar lol
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An idea I have is that you put the current Question threads in archive until the study design changes, where people can still access them and read them, but not post on them. Then create an official Question thread created by ATAR Notes which can be replied to in two ways, question and answer. A question reply cannot be upvoted since they are asking a question, the questioner can then mark his question as answered when they get a clear answer, making it have a green tick mark and answer replies must use the question as a quote and can be upvoted for helping the community. On the side can be a bar showing unanswered questions. These questions will expire within 2 weeks if not answered, and the questioner will be notified that they have to repost their question for visibility. Questions that are answered but the questioner is not satisfied with the response can ask for clarification by replying to the answer. Then the person who answered gets notified and can clarify it for the questioner until the questioner marks their question as resolved. When it gets resolved, the clarification requests get added to the main question and the clarifications get added to the answer with quotes of the clarification requests so it isn't messy and hard to follow. Questioners who keep downvoting legitimate answers will be warned and their question will either be deleted or marked as resolved depending on the answer.
Then remove the question threads from showing up in the unread posts since last visit but add an option in the settings to keep them in the unread topics because some people will find that easier.
Example
Questioner:
Can someone tell me what H2O stands for?
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Answerer:
Can someone tell me what H2O stands for
The H2 stands for 2 hydrogen atoms and the O stands for 1 oxygen atom.
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When the questioner is happy and understands, s/he then marks her question as resolved giving it a green tick, if s/he isn't they can ask for a clarification.
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Questioner:
How is H2O bonded?
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Answerer:
How is H2O bonded?
The atoms are joined by covalent bonding, meaning that they share electrons
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When the questioner marks it as resolved, the main question gets edited to add the main question
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Questioner: ✓
Can someone tell me what H2O stands for?
How is H2O bonded?
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The answer gets edited as well
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Answerer:
Can someone tell me what H2O stands for
The H2 stands for 2 hydrogen atoms and the O stands for 1 oxygen atom. The atoms are joined by covalent bonding, meaning that they share electrons
How is H2O bonded?
The atoms are joined by covalent bonding, meaning that they share electrons
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PROS
- Question threads remain 'important and valued' and stickied in a way
- People are more likely to ask their questions on the thread rather than create a new thread, thus reducing the clutter.
- Easier for new people
- More organised
CONS
- People currently on ATAR Notes can get confused by the creation of a new thread
Just an idea ;D
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^Love your input and thoughts, miguel!
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An idea I have is that you put the current Question threads in archive until the study design changes, where people can still access them and read them, but not post on them. Then create an official Question thread created by ATAR Notes which can be replied to in two ways, question and answer. A question reply cannot be upvoted since they are asking a question, the questioner can then mark his question as answered when they get a clear answer, making it have a green tick mark and answer replies must use the question as a quote and can be upvoted for helping the community. On the side can be a bar showing unanswered questions. These questions will expire within 2 weeks if not answered, and the questioner will be notified that they have to repost their question for visibility. Questions that are answered but the questioner is not satisfied with the response can ask for clarification by replying to the answer. Then the person who answered gets notified and can clarify it for the questioner until the questioner marks their question as resolved. When it gets resolved, the clarification requests get added to the main question and the clarifications get added to the answer with quotes of the clarification requests so it isn't messy and hard to follow. Questioners who keep downvoting legitimate answers will be warned and their question will either be deleted or marked as resolved depending on the answer.
Then remove the question threads from showing up in the unread posts since last visit but add an option in the settings to keep them in the unread topics because some people will find that easier.
Example
Questioner:
Can someone tell me what H2O stands for?
------------------------
Answerer:The H2 stands for 2 hydrogen atoms and the O stands for 1 oxygen atom.
------------------------
When the questioner is happy and understands, s/he then marks her question as resolved giving it a green tick, if s/he isn't they can ask for a clarification.
------------------------
Questioner:
How is H2O bonded?
------------------------
Answerer:The atoms are joined by covalent bonding, meaning that they share electrons
------------------------
When the questioner marks it as resolved, the main question gets edited to add the main question
------------------------
Questioner: ✓
Can someone tell me what H2O stands for?
How is H2O bonded?
------------------------
The answer gets edited as well
------------------------
Answerer:The H2 stands for 2 hydrogen atoms and the O stands for 1 oxygen atom. The atoms are joined by covalent bonding, meaning that they share electrons
The atoms are joined by covalent bonding, meaning that they share electrons
------------------------
PROS
- Question threads remain 'important and valued' and stickied in a way
- People are more likely to ask their questions on the thread rather than create a new thread, thus reducing the clutter.
- Easier for new people
- More organised
CONS
- People currently on ATAR Notes can get confused by the creation of a new thread
Just an idea ;D
Very interesting for sure.
I do think that it will cut off a lot of discussions though, some questions lead to discussions about that and other questions and if I understood this correctly it would be restricted to a Q and A style thread. Feels a bit restrictive but I can't be sure.
Any chance we can get this run on a smaller scale or specific forum to trial? It would be a lot of effort though :\
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Very interesting for sure.
I do think that it will cut off a lot of discussions though, some questions lead to discussions about that and other questions and if I understood this correctly it would be restricted to a Q and A style thread. Feels a bit restrictive but I can't be sure.
Any chance we can get this run on a smaller scale or specific forum to trial? It would be a lot of effort though :\
Yeah, was about to delete the entire thing halfway through because I thought it was something thats easy to plan yet hard to implement.
I tried computer programming before, and even something like this would be hard to execute, given the time it would take to fix the bugs to get it to work properly.
Yeah the Q and A style would really be restricting but a few tweaks would fix that. + it would only apply to Question threads, I just find them hard to follow when two or more questions are getting answered at a time.
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Yeah, was about to delete the entire thing halfway through because I thought it was something thats easy to plan yet hard to implement.
I tried computer programming before, and even something like this would be hard to execute, given the time it would take to fix the bugs to get it to work properly.
Yeah the Q and A style would really be restricting but a few tweaks would fix that. + it would only apply to Question threads, I just find them hard to follow when two or more questions are getting answered at a time.
Yeah though I wonder if a small scale experiment would be worth conducting with a simple interface etc. Might be good to experiment as AN is looking to possibly change it anyway. I understand to some degree how complicated it will be though.
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Yeah though I wonder if a small scale experiment would be worth conducting with a simple interface etc. Might be good to experiment as AN is looking to possibly change it anyway. I understand to some degree how complicated it will be though.
Moving away from SMF is a big move - That means a complete redesign of the backbones of the forums, likely to be a very long term thing if that does happen :)
On sticky threads, my personal opinion is that what we have right now in the HSC works well - A resource thread and a question thread, both sticky (any sections that don't have this now I'll be tidying over the mid year break) :) despite being against the change, I'd be interested to see how the adjustment would be unsticking question threads though :)
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It would be nice if you could remove stickied threads from the unread list. Maybe exclude certain posts or something? Stickied threads are amazing though, I like how it's always in that one place and is really useful.
I like the way it is atm :) I rarely use the last unread function anyway ( honestly I just realised it exists ): ) but I assume others do.
i try to use the unread list but the stickied threads are kind of annoying oops so i'm seconding/thirding/fourthing wales' suggestion haha. but they are really useful in the individual boards tbh, it's nice to have the reliable resources right there when you go looking. (: also, i feel like if you unsticky the question threads, you'll probably get an influx of new threads for small-scale questions? because if it's not up there under people's eyes straight away, they might just create something new instead. idk, i quite like those being stickied haha. so i've totally contradicted myself, oops.
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i try to use the unread list but the stickied threads are kind of annoying oops so i'm seconding/thirding/fourthing wales' suggestion haha. but they are really useful in the individual boards tbh, it's nice to have the reliable resources right there when you go looking. (: also, i feel like if you unsticky the question threads, you'll probably get an influx of new threads for small-scale questions? because if it's not up there under people's eyes straight away, they might just create something new instead. idk, i quite like those being stickied haha. so i've totally contradicted myself, oops.
I feel like this summarises my thoughts exactly (and perhaps the thoughts of many). We want the emphasis on the Question Threads in the section itself, but they saturate the unread list :P
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Moving away from SMF is a big move - That means a complete redesign of the backbones of the forums, likely to be a very long term thing if that does happen :)
What does SMF stand for? Tried googling, was not the answer I expected.
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What does SMF stand for? Tried googling, was not the answer I expected.
Simple Machines Forum ;D
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What does SMF stand for? Tried googling, was not the answer I expected.
Simple Machines Forum, a web-based forum software
Wikipedia's third answer under Science and Tech...
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i try to use the unread list but the stickied threads are kind of annoying oops so i'm seconding/thirding/fourthing wales' suggestion haha. but they are really useful in the individual boards tbh, it's nice to have the reliable resources right there when you go looking. (: also, i feel like if you unsticky the question threads, you'll probably get an influx of new threads for small-scale questions? because if it's not up there under people's eyes straight away, they might just create something new instead. idk, i quite like those being stickied haha. so i've totally contradicted myself, oops.
Thanks heaps for your post patricia.
Personally, I don't think it's a massive deal if other threads crop up. It would be good for the forum, because new topics give something for Google to index and display to people who type similar questions in to the search engine. Back in my day, before question threads were OVERWHELMINGLY dominant, it was pretty common to ask questions in new topics. I don't think it was negative for the forum at all! If anything, imo, it was positive! I wouldn't mind seeing more of it personally but, the whole point of this thread is for the users to have the input, because at the end of the day, any changes we make are to benefit you all... Pls, anyone reading this, just add your 2c :)
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As cool as this is and so glad you went to all of the effort to type up the suggestion, I'm not sure how great this would be just in general. Like, the mod team spoke a few weeks ago, and most of us unanimously decided (not an oxymoron - nobody was against it, but not everyone responded to it, either) that the way question threads work currently isn't actually very beneficial long-term.
As is, question threads currently have a mentality of "I can't do question 7b can you show me how to do it so I can memorise it in case they give me that exact question in the exam?", as opposed to a, "how should I be trying to approach this question, so if I get something similar and don't know what to do I can still try and attempt it in the exam?" The latter leads to much better learning and development, but that's not currently how question threads work. The system you've designed works better for the first scenario, but the latter is aided much more by discussion. (furthermore, I feel in pretty much any board that isn't science or maths, the first scenario just wouldn't work outright)
But otherwise it's well-thought out, I like how thorough you were with the suggestion!
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My actual contribution to the thread: Tbh, I don't quite see the point of making question threads to be something "special". At the end of the day, anybody new that comes in and isn't used to forums (oh boy, back in the day on gamefaqs :'( ) won't understand the significance of stickying a topic, so stickying it doesn't make it anything special to them. For us current users, we know that questions get asked in every thread anyway, so the question thread isn't special there, either. Really, they're just localised places for questions to concentrate, so people who like to give answers know where to focus. So, we should try to keep them at the top, and so stickying is special for that one reason. Except, those threads get posted in so much more than the rest of the threads anyway, that it's kind of redundant to sticky them? It's like if you walked up to a millionaire and said, "here's $50 to feed your family for the week". Like, they'll thank you, but you really haven't done a service - nobody's really benefitting from that exchange. Give that $50 to someone who's a paycheck away from being homeless (a resource thread), and they'll love you for it, and you've just changed somebody's life.
Tl;dr, not really any point to stickying threads, but it's also not hurting anyone. At this point, it's just about aesthetics, really.
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Hey all!
Just a quick heads-up. We're going to go ahead and unsticky a bunch of threads to see how it affects things.
Keen to hear feedback in the coming days, weeks, whenever. :)