There are some restrictions on how certain combination of studies may be counted for an ATAR.[8]
In each of the study areas of English, mathematics, history, contemporary Australian studies, information technology, languages and music:
• at most two results can contribute to the Primary Four
• at most three results can contribute to the ATAR, the third being counted as a 10% increment for a fifth or sixth subject
This also includes Higher Education studies.
Students now have moderated School-based Assessments, which are comparable across the entire VCE system. For example, if we compare moderated School-based Assessments in Geography, we can be sure that a student in Horsham with a mark of 75 has a higher achievement than a student in Richmond with a mark of 60. Before moderation we would not have been able to tell which student had the higher achievement because they are on different scales…
[T]he following marks are determined for both the School-based Assessment scale and the external score scale: the highest achievement, the upper quartile, the median and the lower quartile.ł These scores are used as fixed points for aligning the two scales…[13]
[T]he rank order of students’ assessments in a school is not altered by statistical moderation… The VCAA acknowledges that teachers are in the best position to measure students’ academic achievement in School-based Assessment.[14]
Statistical moderation does not change the rank order of students, as determined by the school’s coursework scores. A student given the top score for coursework by his/her school will have the top score after statistical moderation, no matter how they perform on the examination(s).[15]
All Study Scores are scaled to adjust for the fact that it is more difficult to obtain a high Study Score in some studies than others. This is NOT because some studies are inherently harder than others. This IS because some studies attract a more competitive cohort of students than others.[16]
My understanding was that even if you do terrible in school SACs, a great exam score can boost your terrible sac scores. I’m not quite sure I understand your information completely but there appears to be no mention of such changes. Is there more of a myth then ?
My understanding was that even if you do terrible in school SACs, a great exam score can boost your terrible sac scores. I’m not quite sure I understand your information completely but there appears to be no mention of such changes. Is there more of a myth then ?Yeah that thought process isn't necessarily 100% true I think that line is just said so people don't lose too much hope tbh.
Well from my understanding, if everyone in the cohort does well in the exam, then your SAC ranking won't matter as much since you just get the nth highest exam score for your final SAC score (So if you have a really strong cohort and you end up rank 30, but the 30th highest exam score was still like 90%, then you get that 90% for your SAC score which isn't too bad)rank 30 would not be a bad sac ranking in a cohort where the 30th highest exam is 90% so I wouldn't say those are terrible sacs
Dr Finkel also suggested that the scaling of subjects leads people away STEM subjects. Does anyone know what he was trying to get at there? My understanding was that it did the complete opposite.
@J41 I'm aware you may have already seen me rant about this on Twitter, soz :p
EDIT: also this post is great
One thing I've never understood is that if your ATAR is calculated in comparison to your year 7 cohort how does that work if you finish VCE early or late? Surely it would have to be calculated against your year 12 cohort?not sure about your first one - you'd think they just use the cohort in which you "graduate with" there shouldn't be any significant differences across such a large sample size.
Also are SAC scores scaled the year we do the subject or the year we graduate? Because we only get scaled scores when we graduate but if we do the subject earlier doesn't that mean that they aren't being scaled properly? Or are they scaled against the correct year, just later?
This is awesome!!
SAC scores are sacled the year you do the subject - since you sat the same exam i that year (the only standard measure across the state)and also SAC scores scaling does not occur in conjunction of subject scaling they are two entirely different processes and again subject scaling is done in the year you do the subject ( ask any year 12 with the same study score to know what you got scaled to).Ah I wrote the wrong thing. I know sac scores get scaled the year we do it, I meant study scores. Thanks!
How significant is the GAT? I have heard some mixed opinions about it.The GAT (General Achievement Test) was made as an external measure to ensure that you are being marked accurately by your teachers and assessors in school. So if you are being marked too harshly or too lightly, the external assessors of the GAT may pick up on this through your GAT results and adjust your scores accordingly. Note that this is only for quite noticeable cases. The GAT doesn't typically count towards a person's ATAR/VCE results, but you still want to study and prepare to do the best you possibly can. So honestly it's not a huge stress, but definitely something you want to do your best in.
I have a question. By moderated SAC scores, do you mean student A gets the highest exam mark as their moderated SAC score, meaning their exam score stays as 52%? Or do they get the 99% for their exam score as well? Because the first option doesnt necessarily mean the highest study score, right?only the sac score changes the exam score always remains the score that you yourself achieved. Rank 1 doesn't necessarily get the highest study score and in large cohorts often they do not get the highest study score.
Or will stuffing up SACS significantly affect your study score? So working hard towards your exam seems fruitless if you're ranked at the bottom and others stuff up lol
only the sac score changes the exam score always remains the score that you yourself achieved. Rank 1 doesn't necessarily get the highest study score and in large cohorts often they do not get the highest study score.Ohh okay, at the end of the day though exam marks (at least in some subjects) outweigh sac marks, so essentially if you're ranked 1 it will benefit the sac aspect of your result but stuffing up the exam will still affect you significantly. It gets so confusing when people start saying things like rank 1 will get the highest mark no matter who gets it, or if rank 1 can't get 50 then no one can.
Yes stuffing up sacs will impact your study score but that will all be dependent on cohort strength/performance/state performance. Idk about "fruitless" - doing well on the exam will increase your SS but it would be higher if you aced your sacs as well.
So If i do really good on the hard stuff basically the exam and i prepare my back end off for that and i m 3rd, but the top ranked person does alot worse than me just because the knew how vce works, then he would get my mark simply because of the 'rank'. He can walk in not worrying about anything and just doing average on the exam and i study extremely hard for a good exam score because I have been told that Exams weigh harder and i want a good exam score for myself? how does the system differ that situation?Yeah but apparently he would ONLY get your amazing exam mark as his moderated sac scores, meaning his 'average' exam mark will pretty much remain. So, amazing sac marks + average exam mark = his study score. Not his rank 1 sac marks + your amazing exam mark.
Because internal sac scores vary in difficulty, strictness and content. If we just used internal scores students who received easier assessments would be greatly advantaged. The external exam and the GAT are the ONLY assessments that are standardised across the state and hence are used for moderating internal sacs. It just makes it fair.Oh I see, so schools have different SAC difficulty ? or are they all the same?
Different.Ugh I thought VCAA distributes same SAC LOL
Ugh I thought VCAA distributes same SAC LOLVCAA don't play a part in what questions your teachers will choose for SACs. They will have some general advice on what to do with weak/strong cohorts but the overall difficulty/questions is up to your school to decide.
VCAA don't play a part in what questions your teachers will choose for SACs. They will have some general advice on what to do with weak/strong cohorts but the overall difficulty/questions is up to your school to decide.I see.
Hi, I was just wondering if the normal distribution of study scores was for raw or scaled scores?
If I understood correctly, in a weak cohort it will be easy to get high rank and keep your good exam mark to yourself, which is good.
However, if average cohort results are bad this will negatively affect my score.
Does it all even out in the end?
Do you know anyone who got high ATAR (>99) while attending average public school?
Hi, after reading this topic I understand a bit better how it all works, thanks!If you are in a weak cohort it is important to rank 1 (or rank very highly) if you don't it can decrease the types of scores that you get. If you are rank 1 in a bad cohort your cohort results don't matter that much as long as you do very well on the exam.
But can anyone advise on the school choice?
I will be in year 9 next year, so school choice is kind of important. The problem is that there is no very good public school in my area and parents are unlikely to pay top private school fee. So my choice would be between average public and average private school.
If I understood correctly, in a weak cohort it will be easy to get high rank and keep your good exam mark to yourself, which is good.
However, if average cohort results are bad this will negatively affect my score.
Does it all even out in the end?
Do you know anyone who got high ATAR (>99) while attending average public school?
If you are in a weak cohort it is important to rank 1 (or rank very highly) if you don't it can decrease the types of scores that you get. If you are rank 1 in a bad cohort your cohort results don't matter that much as long as you do very well on the exam.
There are definitely people who get high ATARs from average public schools (see above). Whilst selective/some private schools generally get more high ATARs this is more to do with those schools having more students being of high SES rather than the actual school being better/worse.
Hi, after reading this topic I understand a bit better how it all works, thanks!
But can anyone advise on the school choice?
I will be in year 9 next year, so school choice is kind of important. The problem is that there is no very good public school in my area and parents are unlikely to pay top private school fee. So my choice would be between average public and average private school.
If I understood correctly, in a weak cohort it will be easy to get high rank and keep your good exam mark to yourself, which is good.
However, if average cohort results are bad this will negatively affect my score.
Does it all even out in the end?
Do you know anyone who got high ATAR (>99) while attending average public school?