ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Faculties => Science => Topic started by: acinod on January 31, 2011, 10:52:37 pm
-
I am stuck between deciding which of the two following course I will aim to get in after Year 12.
I will probably be doing a double major in Maths and Physics or maybe double Maths.
University of Melbourne - Bachelor of Science
- More prestige (parents don't care what I'm learning, they just want me to go to Melbourne)
- Less travel time (half the time it takes to get to Monash)
- More convenient postgrad. (might be considering doing postgrad at UniMelb even if I do undergrad at Monash because they offer Doctor of Optometry)
- Easier to get in (85.05 ATAR)
Monash University - Bachelor of Science (Science Scholar Program)
- More flexibility in choosing courses, no annoying breadth program
- Possiblity of finishing the degree in a shorter amount of time
- Harder to get in (99.05 ATAR), so there must be some big benefits to it?
-
You don't seem to be a big fan of the breadth component:
More flexibility in choosing courses, no annoying breadth program
I have had friends who have transferred out of UoM solely because of the breadth component - they found it annoying before they got to uni, had that thought confirmed when they started and subsequently had an agonising semester or whole year before they got out. And you also believe that Monash has "more flexibility". Doesn't that sound good?
-
The science scholar's program is shit. I had it as my 12th preference and it was the only one I received a scholarship for, despite being a good 7 enter points higher than my next highest preference. Binned that offer straight away.
-
The science scholar's program is shit. I had it as my 12th preference and it was the only one I received a scholarship for, despite being a good 7 enter points higher than my next highest preference. Binned that offer straight away.
And I presume that was back in the days when you could receive more than one offer in any one round, yeah?
-
The science scholar's program is shit. I had it as my 12th preference and it was the only one I received a scholarship for, despite being a good 7 enter points higher than my next highest preference. Binned that offer straight away.
So many things in this post don't make sense to me :P
you had more than 12 preferences? and I don't see how the ENTER thing is relevant.
OT;
I think it is alright given you get free money, the program is slightly adjusted, and I think there might be some special deal to do with honours :P
-
The science scholar's program is shit. I had it as my 12th preference and it was the only one I received a scholarship for, despite being a good 7 enter points higher than my next highest preference. Binned that offer straight away.
So many things in this post don't make sense to me :P
you had more than 12 preferences? and I don't see how the ENTER thing is relevant.
OT;
I think it is alright given you get free money, the program is slightly adjusted, and I think there might be some special deal to do with honours :P
He said it was his 12th preference so I presume that would have been his last preference. Also, the way I've interpreted it is that his 11th preference was 7 "ENTER points" lower than his 12th preference.
-
aah fair enough :P re-read it and it makes sense!
I think both programs are probably good, but really if you're an elite sort of program WITH a scholarship, it's a bit hard to say Melbourne is better =\
-
Nah, as in the science scholar's program was 7 or so enter points higher than any of my other preferences. Actually I might have had a couple of those Monash double degrees with hardly any intake and "N/A" listed as their entrance score if you count them as higher, but they were loitering near the top of the bottom half of my preferences and more to fill in space than anything else.
And I'm talking about letter scholarships; they came completely separate to the first round offers, remember?
As nice as it is to receive a bit of recognition like that, it's sort of useless when it's your last preference and has the highest enter. They must have been in serious need to flog it. :P
-
The science scholar's program is shit.
How? On paper it sure seems more suitable for me than Melbourne's BSc, due to less restrictions and more flexibility in subject choices. I have also heard that the teaching is better at Melbourne. However in Monash, it appears that I get some sort of mentor to guide me if I do the Scholar Program. :-\
But lets talk about more into the future; would I be more recognized if I complete a BSc at Melbourne or a BSc Scholar Program (which sounds at bit fancy) at Monash?
-
The science scholar's program is shit.
How? On paper it sure seems more suitable for me than Melbourne's BSc, due to less restrictions and more flexibility in subject choices. I have also heard that the teaching at Melbourne is better than Monash. However, it appears that I get some sort of mentor to guide me if I do the Scholar Program at Monash.
But lets talk about more into the future; would I be more recognized if I complete a BSc at Melbourne or a BSc Scholar Program (which sounds at bit fancy) at Monash?
If you're looking for Australian employment a science degree at any Gof8 uni should be considered equally. Your marks and other aspects are the most discriminating factors.
-
If you're looking for Australian employment a science degree at any Gof8 uni should be considered equally. Your marks and other aspects are the most discriminating factors.
This. You'll be just as qualified at any of those universities. But qualification is a tick the box thing. Some employers prefer certain institutions over others, however.
-
Also, unless the mentor is going to give you a lab placement it's really not worth that much at all.
What's so bad about breadth? 4 subjects isn't going to kill you and you might actually enjoy taking something less full on. They don't have to be history of english literature if you don't want them to be
-
Go to ANU!
Disclaimer: it's not in Melbourne...
-
What's so bad about breadth? 4 subjects isn't going to kill you and you might actually enjoy taking something less full on. They don't have to be history of english literature if you don't want them to be
You can do breadth subjects at Monash if you wanted to. They are completely optional which is why I would pick that over the Melbourne Model.
If you were considering a career in research, or at least doing a postgrad degree, then sci scholars would be better as you could set up your undergrad degree to prepare you better for postgrad.
You should do sci scholar over science at melbourne, both of them would look equally good on a resume (hence prestige won't matter) and if you get into the sci scholar, then you'll be given a scholarship and thus will be paid to study. There are other factors such as the flexibility (which has been really good to most people I know doing it, seriously, being in sci scholar, you could do a third year subject in first year without meeting any of the prereqs, they'll let you do anything)
-
My mate at Melbourne has just finished second year and has already written a chemistry thesis and created his own compound.
Doing a third year subject in first year without doing the prereqs...I don't know about Monash, but here prerequisites in science (particularly in 3rd year) generally mean you will literally be unable to attempt the subject without studying them.
-
Doing a third year subject in first year without doing the prereqs...I don't know about Monash, but here prerequisites in science (particularly in 3rd year) generally mean you will literally be unable to attempt the subject without studying them.
Only a crazy person would do that, but I was merely demonstrating how flexible your options are with the Science scholar. They also have many research projects available to do over the 2/3 years
-
You can do 3rd year subjects in 1st year at every university, you just have to convince the faculty that you should be allowed to (which is never hard, more students = more money)
-
Yeah, I'm enrolling in my 3rd second year subject without meeting prereqs this semester, so it's very doable. I can also do a couple of masters subjects in third year if I want to, so there's just as much flexibility at Melbourne.
-
Also, just because it has a 99 clearly-in doesn't mean it's good. It's just a way for the university to make high achievers go "oh look, I should do this because it has a high clearly-in." They make the clearly-in that high by not letting many people in, it just means they give preferential treatment to you over other students, it doesn't mean the course is better.
-
- More flexibility in choosing courses, no annoying breadth program
Flexibility is subjective.
At monash you have to take a broad sequence of science subjects (At least in the regular BSc, not sure about scholars program). Which means either choosing from one of these two options:
(1) 3 sets of two science subjects, that they choose. Eg. Set 1:[Chemistry 1 & Chemistry 2] Set 2: [Biology 1 & Enviromental Biology] Set 3:[Something & Something]
Keep in mind *the university* chooses the sets. It might be great for some people but it isn't great for others (me especially)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(2) One subject from each of the life sciences, physical sciences and earth sciences
So maybe one unit of biology, one of chemistry and one of some kind of geography.
Again im sure plenty of people don't have interest in all 3 areas and will be forced (like me) to pick up a subject they don't want. I really don't want to blow a unit on geography but it was the best i could find out of the earth sciences section.
Also you have to take one approved mathematics unit which i am also not a fan of but you may go for that.
so thats already 2 units i dont want to take. Considering its 4 a semester, half of a semester ill be doing shit i don't want to.
I personally would find the melbourne breadth much much less annoying, i mean as someone said above it doesn't have to be history of english literature or anything like that. I'm sure you must have an interest in *something* outside of science right? even if you don't they have some "sciencey" breadth subjects that anyone can take.
Just my 2 cents.
[Besides that employment prospects would be more or less similar. Also consider if you actually want to do honours, it'd suck doing it if you didn't want to be there and it would just waste a year of your time. Then again, you can leave the science scholar program early without doing honours as far as im aware.]
-
- More flexibility in choosing courses, no annoying breadth program
Flexibility is subjective.
At monash you have to take a broad sequence of science subjects (At least in the regular BSc, not sure about scholars program). Which means either choosing from one of these two options:
Flexibility is not subjective at all. In fact, the biggest difference between the scholars program and the regular BSc is the increased flexibility as you have none of those restrictions you listed in your post. The requirements for the scholars program is:
* at least one major sequence in a science area of study
* at least one minor sequence in a different science area of study
* at least 36 points of science units at level two and at least 48 points of science units at level three
That's all! So you can basically choose subjects of your own interest and better prepare yourself for postgraduate studies.
[Besides that employment prospects would be more or less similar. Also consider if you actually want to do honours, it'd suck doing it if you didn't want to be there and it would just waste a year of your time. Then again, you can leave the science scholar program early without doing honours as far as im aware.]
Yes I actually want to do honours. It isn't compulsory in the science scholar program but why wouldn't I do honours anyway?
-
Is that rhetorical or do you actually want an answer?
-
Is that rhetorical or do you actually want an answer?
An answer please. If I am not considering employment after the undergraduate degree, wouldn't an honours be the best path to head down?
-
What sort of employment do you want after doing honours? Honours is a shortcut to a phd, if you wanted to get a specific job then you'd do a masters instead (eg public health, epidemiology etc.)
The advantage of honours is that it's cheaper/shorter and still lets you apply to a phd program
-
What sort of employment do you want after doing honours? Honours is a shortcut to a phd, if you wanted to get a specific job then you'd do a masters instead (eg public health, epidemiology etc.)
The advantage of honours is that it's cheaper/shorter and still lets you apply to a phd program
Wouldn't an honours be advisable if you are allowed to do it, even if you are considering a masters after it? It is only one year anyway and will boost your employment prospects, right?
-
Generally you either go Bachelor -> Masters or Bachelor -> Honours -> PhD. PhDs require a postgrad degree to get into, so everybody tends to go for the one year honours course instead of the two year masters.
-
why would you go from bachelor to masters and then to honours?
its usually
Bachelor>Honours>PhD
or
Bachelor>Masters>PhD
or if they just want a masters
its Bachelor>Honours>Masters
or you can go Bachelor>Masters
-
why would you go from bachelor to masters and then to honours?
its usually
Bachelor>Honours>PhD
or
Bachelor>Masters>PhD
or if they just want a masters
its Bachelor>Honours>Masters
or you can go Bachelor>Masters
Were you responding to me? Because that's what I said...
-
yea i was
thats not how it works though Masters is a two year program which you can then go on to do PhD
Honours is a one year program that you can do after your bachelors if you get the marks where if you get a H1 (i believe cause you need the scholarship) you can advance to a PhD
-
You need to re-read my post. That's exactly what I said.
-
"Bachelor -> Masters or Bachelor -> Honours -> PhD"
you dont go from masters> honours
it would be masters>phD
-
I read it as:
"Bachelor -> Masters"
or
"Bachelor -> Honours -> PhD"
-
ah ok if its like that then i read it the wrong way
-
...even if you are considering a masters after it?
I was talking about bachelor>honours>masters>PhD
Is really saving one years time worth skipping honours?
-
(im talking about my experience from monash)
from what i know the majority of people do honours (if u go down the further study pathway)
the only time people go from bachelors to masters is if u dont get the marks for honours and so there is this preliminary masters of science or part 1 biomed (which is basically exactly like honours although i think some of the assessments are slightly different and u dont get a degree at the end of that year) which you can then finish off the masters the next year and then if you want you can embark on a phd or just finish with honours
but if you can they do recommend doing honours and then phd
not sure if that answered ur question...
-
not sure if that answered ur question...
My apologies, I will remember to be more exact in my posts next time.
From what has been posted, I am advised that I only have two pathways. Bachelor with Honours into PhD or Bachelor (no Honours) into Masters.
Wouldn't it be recommended that, if I am capable, to finish a Bachelor of Science with Honours, then complete a Masters degree, followed by a PhD. Or is doing both Honours and Masters unnecessary?
-
if you want to go straight to phd a masters is unnecessary
but you can't really go straight into masters after finishing bachelors, you do this kinda "bridging" diploma which is very similar to honours which you can then go further and do masters or if your really good a phd.
now some people for whatever reason may choose to do an honours and then a masters and thats it. but the main pathway people will choose is an honours straight out from bachelors because you'll have to find a supervisor that will accept those people who do masters preliminary, so if you have the marks your told to do honours
-
If you want to do a phd, do honours because it's faster/easier. Masters (by thesis) is an option but it's longer/harder so there's no reason to go that pathway unless you need the degree for a particular job.
You can work all this out once you've actually started your bachelors though
-
Anyone have any idea what the 'MTH1000: Special topics in mathematics level one' (http://www.monash.edu.au/pubs/2011handbooks/units/MTH1000.html) is at Monash?
Apparently it is only for students in the Science Scholar Program.
I am very intrigued :D
-
Anyone have any idea what the 'MTH1000: Special topics in mathematics level one' (http://www.monash.edu.au/pubs/2011handbooks/units/MTH1000.html) is at Monash?
Apparently it is only for students in the Science Scholar Program.
I am very intrigued :D
It says right there on the page:
Synopsis
A series of mathematical topics chosen from a range of areas of pure and applied mathematics and mathematical statistics, including dynamics, chaos, computing algorithm design, mathematical modelling, number theory, logic, algebra, operation research and applied linear algebra. For example, applied linear algebra topics may include several important applications of eigenanalysis, including image compression, face recognition and understanding how Google's Page Rank search algorithm works.
It looks like it's just a bunch of samples from different fields with no real direction or compounding knowledge coming from it. Like a difficult version of those year 10 master classes. Probably a complete waste of time.
-
Thought a revival of this thread may be beneficial, as I can't possibly be the only student in this position. Has the general consensus changed at all regarding UniMelb BSc vs Monash BSc Scholar Program? Is a scholarship included guaranteed with the scholar program?