ATAR Notes: Forum
Administration => Announcements => Topic started by: enwiabe on December 04, 2007, 06:23:40 pm
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Okay guys, buckle up because it's just been made even better:
- It is now compulsory to give a reason for your karma change. You *can* leave the box blank, but it's always nice to let 'em know!
- Fixed time limits. Apparently 24 hours doesn't work, so 12 hours it is! If I see someone giving more than one karma per 12 hours (there will be leniency and benefit of the doubt, this is only for abusers), I'll know you've evaded the restriction somehow. Let me give you fair warning, that is knowningly abusing the system, and I'll just strip your ability to use the karma system. Also, if I'm feeling particularly titchy I may also give you 1 billion negative karmas. :D
- Accountability is here!
You can now view who has changed your karma and whether it was positive/negative and the reason. Simply click your profile and scroll down till you come to "Whose karma have I changed" and "Who changed my karma"
Click either link and you can see stats for who you've karma'ed or been karma'ed by. Also, there are other nifty stats for you to see, like top 'applauded' and 'smited'.
Enjoy!
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I like this, but now that accountability is installed, we ought to wipe the Karma system so all the points are "worth the same." People are more averse now, which changes the value of the +1 or -1.
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I will -1 enwiabe all the time.
Just letting you know, bastard. :D
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I demand maxleng be smited -16 for all the random smites he dished out to everyone, for no valid reason.
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Holy shit, I + too much.
... and using a test account to smite me, enwiabe, is really cheap you shithead. At least have 50 GENUINE posts. :)
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I don't get it, what does it mean?
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I demand maxleng be smited -16 for all the random smites he dished out to everyone, for no valid reason.
I was a victim of a maxleng smite too. :(
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UPRISING AGAINST ENWIABE.
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I don't get it, what does it mean?
Karma is just what the users on FSN think of you. If you see a particularly useful or insightful post, you should click "[positive]" on their name, to reward them +1 to their Karma. If you see a useless, crappy, or annoying post, give the user a "[negative]" to change their Karma by -1.
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Or if you want to hate on me because I'm the establishment, go right ahead. I only cry myself to sleep at night. :'(
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Or if you want to hate on me because I'm the establishment, go right ahead. I only cry myself to sleep at night. :'(
WAR AGAINST ENWIABE.
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I only cry myself to sleep at night. :'(
Sleeping pills also perform the same job, minus the crying.
I want to post a warning to all FSN'ers.
Go easy on the karma, and be sensible. Unlike enwiabe (who can't delete because he owns the site), some other users can be more sensitive towards EXCESSIVE, MINDLESS SMITING.
We've lost Odette already, don't extend this to other people as well. Be sensible with your smiting, and don't do it randomly for the sake of it. (hint: maxleng)
EDIT: rustic_metal has gone the way of the dodo as well.
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Now, don't feel left out ever again!
You can all smite enwiabe, anytime you want (in a 12 hour period)! Just be sure to have 50 posts (unlike the shithouse "test" account the admins have) and you're in!
If you're scared shitless, reason to smite enwiabe: Toothpick said so.
C'mon join in the fun today.
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Rustic_Metal leaving was more of a blessing than a curse. But yes, Odette's deletion was quite saddening. :(
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i don't like this karma thing..I already got negative 1 next to my name.... :'(
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Well now you also have +2!
I have -17, but I honestly don't care. Why? Because I can just reset mine anyway. :P
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huh.
I have -4 already.
enwiabe, that's CHEEEEEEEEEEEEAP!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D
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huh.
I have -4 already.
enwiabe, that's CHEEEEEEEEEEEEAP!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D
What the fuck... am I on drugs or are those smiley faces moving their eyes quicker than normal?
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You're on drugs.
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drugs
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i don't like this karma system- i can't believe we lost odette :(
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huh.
I have -4 already.
enwiabe, that's CHEEEEEEEEEEEEAP!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D
What the fuck... am I on drugs or are those smiley faces moving their eyes quicker than normal?
They look faster for me as well. Silly eyes getting confused when there;s 6 in a row :K
Or... I've been drugged too ^_^
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ENWIABE HAS DRUGGED US ALL. SHIT MMMMAAAAANNNN :D :D :D
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I don't get it, what does it mean?
Karma is just what the users on FSN think of you. If you see a particularly useful or insightful post, you should click "[positive]" on their name, to reward them +1 to their Karma. If you see a useless, crappy, or annoying post, give the user a "[negative]" to change their Karma by -1.
but where are those options coblin?
i don't like this karma system- i can't believe we lost odette :(
see i don't get this, how was odette lost ???
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Quote from: elaine98 on Today at 08:52:25 pm
see i don't get this, how was odette lost
i think she left :(
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Quote from: elaine98 on Today at 08:52:25 pm
see i don't get this, how was odette lost
i think she left :(
She deleted her account :(
The karma thing I think you can only see when you have 50 posts. It's somewhere on the left of posts along with username, avatar etc
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Quote from: elaine98 on Today at 08:52:25 pm
see i don't get this, how was odette lost
i think she left :(
She deleted her account :(
The karma thing I think you can only see when you have 50 posts. It's somewhere on the left of posts along with username, avatar etc
cheers cara.mel & elaine
did she leave because of heaps of - karma points?
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She got smited bad for the work she did do, so I assume that's the reason why.
Unless someone chats to her, we won't know the real reason why.
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i'm a victim of the maxleng smite
*special*..
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Not really, we all got smited.
He's going down, down down to je..... smite-town. :D
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Does any of the moderators know what happened to Odette? For the Business Management and Further students I would have thought that she would have been a great asset for FSN. So was she kicked out or leave on her on free will? Its a shame. If anyone has her msn please PM it to me so I can stay in contact with her :)
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She left of her own accord. 'Tis a shame, but oh well.
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I think she recieved some nasty random smiting, which was really rough considering how much of an asset she was/is to this forum. I have a feeling some of my smitings may have been random too, but mayb some ppl just hate me...
I'm curious... If I am to smite some1 (certainly only if they deserve it), won't they now be able to retaliate and smite me for no reason?
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Yeh that seems to be the general occurance.
I think Positive karma should be viewable but negative karma private because at least you know whos happy with your posts
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I think she and rustic_metal were obviously over-sensitive. So what if people smite them? It doesn't justify leaving the forum, not in my mind at least.
Odette was a good asset and it's sad to see her gone.
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Yeh that seems to be the general occurance.
I think Positive karma should be viewable but negative karma private because at least you know whos happy with your posts
Or disable the whole system all together? Unless it's used responsibly, it serves no useful purpose.
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oh rustic_metal is gone too. Geez. lol Meh Odette was more of an asset. hahah rustic_metal was a liability hahahahh!!! Now for the owners equity... =P
enwiabe? :P
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Heh, why do you think I failed to mention rustic_metal whilst appreciating Odette? :P
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oh rustic_metal is gone too. Geez. lol Meh Odette was more of an asset. hahah rustic_metal was a liability hahahahh!!! Now for the owners equity... =P
enwiabe? :P
An accounting joke! *RUN* :P :D
Yeah.. I should in fact have no bad karma XD 1 was a maxleng random smiting, the other was an error by kingtooth, who balanced it out with an applaud. It is good to know where my karma's come from, and that it appears I haven't upset any1. However, when I had no idea what I'd done to receive my 1st smiting, I felt horrible and wondered who I'd upset. I can easily empathise with our lost members, and I see how this new karma system can sometimes be hurtful and leave the recipient of bad karma feeling unwanted.
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Heh, why do you think I failed to mention rustic_metal whilst appreciating Odette? :P
Hahaha, I know all too well about these internal politics...
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Lol, you guys don't know what occured with Odette?
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For me, the chat log only tells us that Odette mistakingly thought she was 'one of the hated ones'. She's obviously a very over-sensitive type - negative 9 karma and she thinks people hate her.
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I contend that reasons made public = increased accountability - you wouldn't be able to slag someone off relentlessly or for no reason without the whole community seeing. I'm not too fussed, though.
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Lol, you guys don't know what occured with Odette?
An extract of the chat log: (I hope its ok odette lol, *i hope*)
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What? As if you'd quote me off IRC! Now I'm a freak.
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Lol, you guys don't know what occured with Odette?
An extract of the chat log: (I hope its ok odette lol, *i hope*)
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Well fine I'm back guys and girls... next time Prav don't do that sort of thing without my permission..
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Yay! Welcome back.
The karma system has been reformed. All we have to do now is kick maxleng out for continuing to random smite people.
Get the hint, maxleng. Stop spamming smites.
I assume this means immediate moderator status and re-crediting of 1,200 posts.
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Yay! Welcome back.
The karma system has been reformed. All we have to do now is kick maxleng out for continuing to random smite people.
Get the hint, maxleng. Stop spamming smites.
I assume this means immediate moderator status and re-crediting of 1,200 posts.
Lol aww thanks it's good to be back ^_^
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I'll fix Odette up with her old posts soon. I'll also make her a moderator as enwiabe promised, unless someone beats me to it.
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brilliant to have you back odette ;D
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I'll fix Odette up with her old posts soon. I'll also make her a moderator as enwiabe promised, unless someone beats me to it.
Did he promise this? For what boards?
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I'll fix Odette up with her old posts soon. I'll also make her a moderator as enwiabe promised, unless someone beats me to it.
Oh ok thanks Josh =]
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brilliant to have you back odette ;D
Aww thanks elaine =]
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I've fixed your posts up, I just need to find the thread in which moderatorship was mentioned before I can do that - hopefully it wasn't a figment of my imagination. :P
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I've fixed your posts up, I just need to find the thread in which moderatorship was mentioned before I can do that - hopefully it wasn't a figment of my imagination. :P
Lol it's fine ^_^
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I'll fix Odette up with her old posts soon. I'll also make her a moderator as enwiabe promised, unless someone beats me to it.
Did he promise this? For what boards?
http://freestudynotes.com/VCEforum/index.php/topic,828.msg14125.html#msg14125
He mentioned a prerequisite of maintaining the same solid level of posting was required, therefore I can't change her yet, but the proof is in the link there. My interpretation of 'general moderator' would be 'global moderator', like yourself, brendan, AppleXY, etc.
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Oh, and where are my manners! Welcome back!
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Oh, and where are my manners! Welcome back!
Thanks ^_^ Lol
Would be cool if I was a mod =P But hey if I dont become one it's fine too =] I'll just share some of my ideas instead hehe
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Yeh, you'll have to wait and see. If you meet that pre-requisite of maintaining your old constant post habit, I'm sure enwiabe will oblige.
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Yeh, you'll have to wait and see. If you meet that pre-requisite of maintaining your old constant post habit, I'm sure enwiabe will oblige.
I don't think posts should have to do with anything. It's just about how much 'moderator material' you have. AppleXY doesn't post much, but he's got the material :P
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I agree with you there, but enwiabe set the condition and I'm merely a minion who has to follow his orders :P I wouldn't feel comfortable making Odette a moderator without his approval/consulting him - I'm not sure to what extent I'm allowed to use my authority autonomously.
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I don't think posts should have to do with anything. It's just about how much 'moderator material' you have. AppleXY doesn't post much, but he's got the material :P
That's true =]
Quality over quantity I guess hehe
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WELCOME BACK ODETTE, YOU LEGEND :)
lol soz, people were justt so curious so I thought showing a log would be the best way to explain your absence. :)
Always a pleasure to have you back Odette.
@Coblin, I do so post alot :p...... just not compared to you guys :coolsmiley: ::)
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WELCOME BACK ODETTE, YOU LEGEND :)
lol soz, people were justt so curious so I thought showing a log would be the best way to explain your absence. :)
Always a pleasure to have you back Odette.
@Coblin, I do so post alot :p...... just not compared to you guys :coolsmiley: ::)
Lol thanks Apple =P
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Enwiabe, stop trying to disguise your actual bad karma by tampering with it and making it -some massive number. It's ridiculous, and you're not fooling anyone. If you don't like it, then get rid of it (edit:by 'it' i mean the karma system). We all have karma, so why shouldn't you be accountable??
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LOL @ goosefraba saying what we we're all thinking ♥
That referring to the manipulation of karma, not the later part of the post.
Just for record : enwiabe karma = -6
=P
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Enwiabe, stop trying to disguise your actual bad karma by tampering with it and making it -some massive number. It's ridiculous, and you're not fooling anyone. If you don't like it, then get rid of it (edit:by 'it' i mean the karma system). We all have karma, so why shouldn't you be accountable??
Awww, I can do what I want. It's my website and I may do as I please. It wouldn't be in my best interests to edit my karma up to +50,000, but I don't see the problem in giving myself boundless amounts of negative karma. If a number on a website bothers you so much, shouldn't you then rethink your priorities? If you don't like the way I'm running things, I'd be more than happy to see you leave along with a certain couple of other people who share your opinion about my leadership. The bottom line is, like it or lump it, because I'm not changing the way I run things for somebody as stuck-up and conceited as yourself. I take on board the suggestions of well-meaning and nice people. You are no such person. You're welcome to stick around, but seriously, you're just bordering on pathetic, now. "ZOMG U EDITED A NUMBER... CURRUPTZ!!!11"
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If you don't like the way I'm running things, I'd be more than happy to see you leave along with a certain couple of other people who share your opinion about my leadership.
Like me, yes?
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Enwiabe, stop trying to disguise your actual bad karma by tampering with it and making it -some massive number. It's ridiculous, and you're not fooling anyone. If you don't like it, then get rid of it (edit:by 'it' i mean the karma system). We all have karma, so why shouldn't you be accountable??
Awww, I can do what I want. It's my website and I may do as I please. It wouldn't be in my best interests to edit my karma up to +50,000, but I don't see the problem in giving myself boundless amounts of negative karma. If a number on a website bothers you so much, shouldn't you then rethink your priorities? If you don't like the way I'm running things, I'd be more than happy to see you leave along with a certain couple of other people who share your opinion about my leadership. The bottom line is, like it or lump it, because I'm not changing the way I run things for somebody as stuck-up and conceited as yourself. I take on board the suggestions of well-meaning and nice people. You are no such person. You're welcome to stick around, but seriously, you're just bordering on pathetic, now. "ZOMG U EDITED A NUMBER... CURRUPTZ!!!11"
Gone mad with power.
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Completely mad. Somebody stop me.
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Completely mad. Somebody stop me.
I think people would rather ignore you.
But I am going to stand up for someone whose privacy you have exploited. You used your administrator powers to get the email of melaniedee, and used Facebook to get her full name. Not funny.
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^ Agreed.
I do agree also that the admin should be just as accountable with their karma as anyone else. Otherwise things get a little too "Animal Farm" for my liking (although obviously not nearly as sinister). I don't take it that seriously, I actually think it's kind of funny, but it doesn't seem fair that you automatically aren't held under the same scrutiny as the rest of us.
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Completely mad. Somebody stop me.
I think people would rather ignore you.
But I am going to stand up for someone whose privacy you have exploited. You used your administrator powers to get the email of melaniedee, and used Facebook to get her full name. Not funny.
Whilst you're right, I did use my admin powers to satisfy a curiosity, it wasn't an abuse of powers. Melanie.dee surrendered her e-mail when signing up to FSN, and so long as I don't reveal that, or any private details (and I just fended off an attempt by somebody now, for that matter), I am well within the law of my code of conduct. I simply stipulated that you can't reveal it to anybody. If you feel that's a violation of rights, also consider that melanie.dee said that nobody would ever find out her name, effectively laying down the challenge and partially bringing that upon herself. That being said, I don't even see what I did as wrong, because I regularly look at people's e-mails (in the past it was to determine whether they were bots or not), currently it helps me gain a better understanding of the demographic (many people put 1990 or 1989 in their e-mails). In the past I have identified people previously banned who have signed up and has allowed me to take action.
That I entered that one e-mail into a facebook search to identify someone who was playing funny buggars and going under a different alias was something that I have also done in the past, and in fact, if you must know, I found brogan77 trying to sign up in a similar way after I had initially banned him. Call it a background check if you like, I have not broken any part of the code of conduct. You are not sticking up for anything, Collin.
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Completely mad. Somebody stop me.
I think people would rather ignore you.
But I am going to stand up for someone whose privacy you have exploited. You used your administrator powers to get the email of melaniedee, and used Facebook to get her full name. Not funny.
Whilst you're right, I did use my admin powers to satisfy a curiosity, it wasn't an abuse of powers. Melanie.dee surrendered her e-mail when signing up to FSN, and so long as I don't reveal that, or any private details (and I just fended off an attempt by somebody now, for that matter), I am well within the law of my code of conduct. I simply stipulated that you can't reveal it to anybody. If you feel that's a violation of rights, also consider that melanie.dee said that nobody would ever find out her name, effectively laying down the challenge and partially bringing that upon herself. That being said, I don't even see what I did as wrong, because I regularly look at people's e-mails (in the past it was to determine whether they were bots or not), currently it helps me gain a better understanding of the demographic (many people put 1990 or 1989 in their e-mails). In the past I have identified people previously banned who have signed up and has allowed me to take action.
That I entered that one e-mail into a facebook search to identify someone who was playing funny buggars and going under a different alias was something that I have also done in the past, and in fact, if you must know, I found brogan77 trying to sign up in a similar way after I had initially banned him. Call it a background check if you like, I have not broken any part of the code of conduct. You are not sticking up for anything, Collin.
Oh ouch, you revealed coblin's name.
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You are not sticking up for anything, Collin.
This is a rather strong ending to a post that isn't actually very fierce in nature. I am sticking up for melanie.dee, so I don't see how you can say I am not sticking up for anything.
I have no concerns about you using emails for administrative tasks, but you cannot compare that to using it for curiosity.
This argument is worrying:
If you feel that's a violation of rights, also consider that melanie.dee said that nobody would ever find out her name, effectively laying down the challenge and partially bringing that upon herself.
An analogy is that some woman who teased a man by saying "you'll never have sex with me" has effectively laid down the challenge and partially brought rape upon herself. The point is, melanie.dee has been clearly defensive of her personal details, and you have violated that without consent.
Also, it is a straw-man when you defend yourself from breaking the Code of Conduct, I never suggested that you broke the Code of Conduct, I just think the nature of what you did was wrong, and my goal was to expose it so everyone could make their own individual decision about you.
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He has revealed it himself, before, publically. :)
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I have no concerns about you using emails for administrative tasks, but you cannot compare that to using it for curiosity.
This argument is worrying:
If you feel that's a violation of rights, also consider that melanie.dee said that nobody would ever find out her name, effectively laying down the challenge and partially bringing that upon herself.
An analogy is that some woman who teased a man by saying "you'll never have sex with me" has effectively laid down the challenge and partially brought rape upon herself. The point is, melanie.dee has been clearly defensive of her personal details, and you have violated that without consent.
Eh, I'm not going to deny that it was primarily curiosity, but that's why I use e-mails for administrative purposes as well. I'm curious to know whether the people on FSN are people I want here. And, it was under the same principle of curiosity that I looked up melanie.dee's facebook. I proceeded no further, and never communicated any such details to anybody else. I have not broken the code of conduct and this is a moot point.
Re: the 'brought it on her self point. Yes, that is a weak point, analogous to the 'rape' argument, however, the ramifications of looking up a facebook are in no way comparable to that of rape, and so the analogy falls down here. Once you sign up to any forum, you surrender your e-mail to it, and depending on the forum's code of conduct, you take responsibility for what happens in terms of your information. The code of conduct clearly stipulates the prevention of the revealing of private information in a public domain, but nothing about the use of the e-mail by administrators. I think, to clear up any future confusion, I shall add in a clause to the Terms of Service saying that you surrender your e-mail and any information entered into the profile field to the administrator for sole use in the running of FSN. I'll also put in something about not supplying it to third party companies etc. as well.
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If you feel that's a violation of rights, also consider that melanie.dee said that nobody would ever find out her name, effectively laying down the challenge and partially bringing that upon herself.
That is so fucking childish.
How can you use this as an excuse. The world doesn't work like that. If you use that if you were to get into shit with the police :police: you would be lol't at very hard.
That I entered that one e-mail into a facebook search to identify someone who was playing funny buggars
Funny buggars? That is so gay.
I hope you don't take the word "gay" the wrong way, after all I am just "playing funny buggars"
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Regardnless of whether or not it teechnically abuses your little code of conduct, it's pretty clear that using admin privilege to look someone up on facebook who expressely stated that they wanted to remain anonymous is morally way out of line, especially considering that facebook reveals full name, photo, possibly school and friends details etc etc.
Claiming that I brought it upon myself is ridiculous. I never issued a "challenge" to you to search for my personal details, you just decided you would infringe upon my privacy and do so, and an incorrect interpretation of the situation on your behalf doesn't excuse the breach of trust and privacy. Coblin's rape analogy sums it up nicely.
And indeed, despite whether it's technically an infringement of the code of conduct, it's certainly likely to strike a chord with other members equally concerned about protecting their privacy, who will also take issue with the nature of your actions. I suppose it's up to them to decide whether they should place their trust in an admin with little to no professionalism, who happily steps over the line to satisfy his own curiosity.
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it's pretty clear that using admin privilege to look someone up on facebook who expressely stated that they wanted to remain anonymous is morally way out of line, especially considering that facebook reveals full name, photo, possibly school and friends details etc etc.
In questioning, mdee concended that her full name and email was not posted publicly by enwiabe.
that facebook reveals full name, photo, possibly school and friends details etc etc.
This is all information you agreed to submit to Facebook and you agreed to Facebook's terms and conditions by utilizing their services.
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I'm not going to defend myself morally, here. If it's bugging you that much, then I'll put it in an edited version of the Terms of Service. If you no longer agree to these terms of service, then you may delete your account.
In my defense for this, I have stopped accounts in the past who would have caused trouble for FSN by performing background checks. If you're going to sign up under a fake alias and be deliberately shady about who you are, then considering that there are people in this world who would seek to try to harm FSN, then a background check will be performed regardless. The only reason I hadn't done one before on you was because I didn't believe that you were one such person. If you believe i've stepped out of line morally, then good for you. I'm sure you're a saint. I don't think I've done anything wrong here, and to be honest with you, this method of running things has been how we've been able to identify a significant proportion of spambots in the past and other wrongdoers as well.
I refuse to apologise for this method of running things simply because it works. You surrendered your e-mail to FSN when you signed up. If you believe that is a mistake, you may delete your account. I have not stored it and I do not remember it, and I only recall your real first name as well. Go for gold, melanie.dee. :)
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Brendan, it was not a breach of privacy, and I am not going to deny that (don't know about mdee).
My motivation for the exposure of this is to highlight the nature of his actions: finding out her name and then taunting her with the knowledge. It is not a breach of privacy, it does not break the "Code of Conduct" (that enwiabe writes, anyway), but it is to invite individuals to make their own judgement about this administrator.
My personal view on the issue is that it is unprofessional, and his blatant display of power is not attractive to anyone.
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If you have problems with enwiabe's role on this site then just quit? Crying in this thread won't change anything. God
Nah. Boycotting is only one option. Making yourself heard, and trying to appeal to enwiabe's sense to change his ways, particularly his blatant display of power, is a much more constructive result (doesn't require the deconstruction of FSN, and the advocation of a new forum).
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Okay, I will admit that it was unprofessional to state publically that I knew it. That was, I believe, an error in judgment and I apologise for that. However, my actions were not morally reprehensible. Melanie.dee has only blown an already dead and forgotten saga out of proportion and in fact magnified the 'mystery' surrounding her identity by bringing it out here instead of doing this through a private channel, with perhaps coblin to mediate. Because she's brought this out in a public forum, well, that's as poor judgment as I've ever exercised. Does that make her a bad or immoral person? No. And a little misjudgment on my part does not make me one either.
I realise now exactly what my folly was, and I am sorry for that and promise not to do it again.
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If you have problems with enwiabe's role on this site then just quit?
I like this community. I don't want to have to quit because of the one who runs the show.
That would be like leaving the country if you hate Kevin Rudd.
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If you don't watch yourself and your homophobic comments, you may be leaving anyway.
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infringe upon my privacy and do so, and an incorrect interpretation of the situation on your behalf doesn't excuse the breach of trust and privacy. Coblin's rape analogy sums it up nicely.
it was not a breach of privacy,
I would concur with Colin.
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If you don't watch yourself and your homophobic comments, you may be leaving anyway.
Not homophobic. Careful with the terminology there bro. ;)
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I refer, not to your comment in this thread, but in chat. And, like I said, if you continue to test rule 5) I.E. trolling, make no mistake, I will not hesitate in enforcing it.
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Hey it wasn't even me who brought this up, nor did I want to bring it up, I made it fairly clear how I felt about it the other day. I only responded to this thread after the issue was brought up, and I figured I should confirm it and clarify my thoughts on it. Either way I agree to some extent that this is making it worse and to be honest I'd rather not have commented on this issue on here at all, but at least it does allow people to make their own judgement based on your actions, and will hopefully inspire a little more professionalism in your future behaviour.
And Brendan, I formally retract any incorrect wording that you have taken issue with, I'm so genuinely sorry to have caused pain to your law-studying brain and hope you find it within your power to forgive me for my less than rigorous control of the english language and slight slip-ups that you seem so intent to highlight.
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I refer, not to your comment in this thread, but in chat. And, like I said, if you continue to test rule 5) I.E. trolling, make no mistake, I will not hesitate in enforcing it.
I said gay. So what? I poorly judged the effect it would have toward you.
And we all make poor judgments at times don't we?
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I'm going to end my input into this discussion now with some analysis of the way you've been behaving as members. You all expect me to act professionally, right?
See:
We all have karma, so why shouldn't you be accountable??
and I suppose it's up to them to decide whether they should place their trust in an admin with little to no professionalism, who happily steps over the line to satisfy his own curiosity.
So why, in god's name, when I took power back from those who weren't selected moderators on the FSN #vce channel did you all get so angry at me? That was acting professionally. That was ensuring that new members who came to the channel weren't greeted by everyone having moderator powers and the anarchy that you so enjoyed. To be perfectly honest with you, this is gross hypocrisy on your part. It is sheer double-standards, and to be honest with you, all you're trying to do is scapegoat me. No matter what I do, even if it's good, you find some way to try to hate it.
Let me tell you, it's just pathetic. There are other people than goosefraba and melanie.dee who subscribe to this double-standard bullshit, and you know who you are. Let me be the one to tell you that it is simply fake and bitchy. I couldn't give a lick what you think of me, and as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't mind seeing you all quit (again, you know who 'you all' are). I'm just offering you my repartee to your brazen attack on my leadership. You're not exactly crash-hot members yourselves. :)
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Fuck I cannot be fucked with this, and I agree this is just bringing attention to the situation which I would rather it not. Hello look what I wrote I half agreed with you, saying that this is not the place to be discussing this, however on the other hand I do think what you did was incredibly unprofessional and it is important for others to know that.
I do not take issue with everything you do for the sake of it, however you disguising your power grabbing attempts as professional and beneficial for the FSN community is pretty effing ridiculous. Fuck this is so pointless though, I don't even care this much and I didn't even bring this up.
Can this portion of the thread be removed?
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Power-grabbing? Excuse me? FreeStudyNotes.com official VCE chat was the title of that IRC.
It was official canon of the FSN community.
It wasn't power grabbing. The same 'power structure' that you see on this forum was supposed to remain there. All of the moderators had op powers, and I did too. I simply wanted to maintain that. And again, the fact that you're STILL averse to it and regarding it as a 'power grab' reeks of the ridiculous double-standards you're imposing upon me. Good job, there, melanie. You are a hypocrite.
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I do think what you did was incredibly unprofessional and it is important for others to know that.
I would agree with that statement
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Ah but you seem to have no grasp on the idea of when it's necessary and appropriate to assert your powers as admin, and when it's better to just let things be, instead of turning into the fun police. I label it power grabbing because of your seeming inability to let things such as that go and continue along peacefully when they threaten your position and ego. Maybe I shouldn't even blame you for this; a lack of sense of occasion is more unfortunate rather than intentionally evil. Hmm.
And how does this make me a hypocrite anyway? You'll have to explain the logical links a little more clearly there.
Equally, whether you like it or not, as admin your actions are going to be scrutinised somewhat more intently than if you were to be a regular member. Get used to it.
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'position' and 'ego'? HELLO: I'll spell it out for you with nice little logical links so I don't skip the obvious. :)
FreeStudyNotes.com is a business. At some point there will be advertisements on this website. I have poured money into this business and am currently running at a small loss.
As such, I want the power divisions that I have defined to retain parity across all sections of the community. In IRC, if I see everyone having Op powers, that's not professional. That's anarchic. I'm going to fix that. Do note that as administrator, I don't particularly care if I'm the 'fun police' when it comes to enforcing decorum in the forum (hehe rhyme). If you don't like it, again, look elsewhere. But don't accuse me of being unprofessional, and don't whine and bitch about my leadership because I am apparently the 'fun police'. Somebody has to do it.
With logical links:
You accuse me of being unprofessional.
Logical link number 1 that goes over the blatantly obvious for you:
WHOA HERE WE GO! This links to the idea that you think I should be professional at all times.
Okay, so now step forward to you whining and complaining about my being the 'fun police' and restoring the parity of power.
Logical link number 2 that goes over the blatantly obvious for you:
You ready for it? Strap into your logical seat!
I WAS acting professionally to restore the hierarchy of power in FSN. Imagine if I made everyone administrator on the forum. It'd be chaos! And that's how it was in IRC. You could actually kick me, the administrator from the room. I don't want a new member to see that. THAT looks unprofessional.
Final logical link that does not skip steps and explains everything plainly for you.
It is then HYPOCRITICAL to complain about my apparent 'breach of privacy' as being unprofessional whilst simultaneously bitching about my professionalism in upholding the parity of power across all divisions of FSN. THAT makes you a hypocrite.
And yes, I agree my actions will be more scrutinised than a regular member's. It doesn't make your actions any less wrong, however. I just thought I'd point that out to you. It doesn't absolve me of anything, it's merely pointing out my frustrations with your actions, just as you've done with mine. :)
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But pal, I hadn't even brought the fun police point up when you said I was being hypocritical. That renders it irrelevant as evidence to your earlier claim.
I am arguing that you should maintain a level of professionalism at all times. I havn't wavered from this claim. My contention is that you have no grasp on how to carry out this idea. What YOU claim as professionalism, I claim as otherwise. This is where it all goes wrong. If we take your view, then I am being a hypocrite. If we take my view, then I'm not being a hypocrite, I'm upholding the same idea throughout and taking issue with the way you interpret that particular idea.
And lol yes I'm aware that you're allowed to point out any frustrations you have with my actions, go ahead, although I would probably restrain if I was admin, but I suppose you find yourself in a bit of an uncomfortable place being both admin and an active member. Hmm.
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I think the rules for IRC should have been relaxed because it is a different medium of communication that is simply more chaotic in nature. Perhaps the social justice (kicking and banning enwiabe) was not professional, but the mass deop's that always occurred on enwiabe's arrival were not necessary. (You started the deop before the "social justice" took place, so don't say it was self-defence)
It doesn't matter now, because it is out of FSN jurisdiction, and totally member-run (yay, it's a commune).
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No, you'd brought it up in a past discussion. That's EXACTLY what I'm getting at! During the IRC discussions you kept complaining about my apparent 'power hunger'. I am bringing this up from a past discussion that there are times when my professionalism doesn't quite rub you the right way and you bitch and moan. WHOA! Hypocrite. HEY, SUP, HOW ARE YOU.
What do you claim as professionalism, melanie.dee? Hmmm? Do you think professionalism should be taking the necessary means to ensure that order is constant in all divisions of a company? Do you believe it also entails good behavioural standards? You can't have one without the other!
Through your hypocrisy, you've lost all right to professionalism in dealing with me on this issue. In future, I will treat you with the respect that you clearly don't show me. But for this thread and in these posts, I am going to express to you how agitated I get by insufferable hypocrites like you in every way possible. I refuse to cop your crap on the chin, smile about it and pretend nothing has happened. If I alienate you, and members like you in this way then so be it. I think we're better off without you, anyway. :)
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I think the rules for IRC should have been relaxed because it is a different medium of communication that is simply more chaotic in nature. Perhaps the social justice (kicking and banning enwiabe) was not professional, but the mass deop's that always occurred on enwiabe's arrival were not necessary. (You started the deop before the "social justice" took place, so don't say it was self-defence)
It doesn't matter now, because it is out of FSN jurisdiction, and totally member-run (yay, it's a commune).
I wouldn't, for a second, say that it was self-defense. It was always about keeping the same power divisions as before. Nothing more, nothing less.
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enwiabe, I actually have no problems with you not being a professional, as long as you do not exercise the powers of an administrator or moderator with it. Be professional when using your administrative powers. I'm not implying anything, or accusing you of any wrong here, I'm just saying what I think you should do.
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Sigh, guys, please stop arguing about it. Both sides have their own opinions and it's obvious that neither side will concede to the other. And neither side is completely right or completely wrong.
Just calm down and walk away from this, it's pointless and unproductive. Can someone lock this thread?
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I definitely agree with coblin. This site is indeed a business and you should act like a professional business man. That includes not arguing with your customers (members).
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To that, I say, why? Why should I have to take crap from people like melanie.dee lying down? I'm going to argue my case. I'm going to get involved, and you can sure as hell bet that I will give back as good as I've taken. You may deem it to be unprofessional. I see it as the right of reply.
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enwiabe, I actually have no problems with you not being a professional, as long as you do not exercise the powers of an administrator or moderator with it. Be professional when using your administrative powers. I'm not implying anything, or accusing you of any wrong here, I'm just saying what I think you should do.
Yeh I think this is the sort of thing I'm trying to get at. Although not managing to articulate it clearly, as usual. Professional in your use of power as admin, professional in your actions as admin, yet not turning into some power wielding mad bandit at unnecessary moments. Balance. Hence my fun police comment.
Anyway I'm not sure why you are so determined to continue to argue, I conceded that if taken from your point of view, yes you can claim I'm a hypocrite, whatever, which clearly you are going to do. Not much point going around in a circle, obviously I see if from a different viewpoint, with you not quite grasping what I'm trying to say, and hence insinuating that I'm applying double standards and changing opinions, when I would argue that I'm not.
Ps. You don't have the power to retract any 'rights' from me on any issue, but you are welcome to disregard my opinion if you so wish. A bit silly, but go ahead.
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Now that melanie's had her right of reply, I choose to forego mine in favour of locking this thread. :)