Choosing an Engineering Course

[Hancock]

My bad, I meant "don't"! Edited post a second ago.

[spectroscopy]

if bcom/b.eng is 5-5 and a half years, why not just do the bachelor of commerce with the engineering stream at melbourne, if you dont like the commerce side of things, do the two year masters after, or if youre really hating it transfer across to sci, the engineering subjects would count as science and the commerce as breadth! or if you dont like the engineering side of things, drop it as breadth and keep the comm
 but the unimelb option 3+2 takes the same amount of time/less + you can get way more overseas jobs. from what ive seen and heard from overseas they love masters
 

easy choice imo

[pi]

Bachelor of Engineering/Bachelor for Commerce is 5 years though.

http://www.monash.edu.au/pubs/handbooks/courses/0548.html

[samsiexD]

They're both 5 years so either way i'll end up with a Master or Bachelor of engineering but the thing is there's no guarantee that i'll get accepted into Masters if i do it at Melbourne.
Also i don't know what the work load is like with double degrees, will i be able to balance study life with social life?

[pi]

One of the most social people I know does the double degree

[alondouek]

Also i don't know what the work load is like with double degrees, will i be able to balance study life with social life?

Workload is fine, often the same as a single degree because you'll usually be taking the same number of units per semester with a double degree as with a single degree.

One of the major parts of uni is independent learning and self-management. It's entirely up to you to find a balance between work and social stuff; many of the most successful students are the ones who find plenty of time for things other than study.

[mark_alec]

They're both 5 years so either way i'll end up with a Master or Bachelor of engineering but the thing is there's no guarantee that i'll get accepted into Masters if i do it at Melbourne.
Also i don't know what the work load is like with double degrees, will i be able to balance study life with social life?

If you have at least a 65% average, you are guaranteed a CSP place in MEng. Double degrees are not more difficult than single degrees, they just go for longer.

[Professor Polonsky]

Bachelor of Engineering/Bachelor for Commerce is 5 years though.

http://www.monash.edu.au/pubs/handbooks/courses/0548.html

That would require you to overload in two semesters though, no?

[816]

I'll be honest, if you don't get a >65% average you probably won't get a job in engineering. It's probably better that Melbourne prevents you from entering the M.E in that case.

When most subjects in undergrad have 10-20% 'easy' points in assignments and stuff, most of the time you just need to pass the exam to get >65.

If you go to Monash and have a <65% engineering average, you probably won't get a job so your degree is pretty useless anyway.

To answer your question pi, I explained to you before, it's no good doing both degrees because no company will hire you to do both engineering and commerce work. Pick one, get really good at it and specialise in some sub-field. That's the way to go. A lot of people pick it I assume because they want to do engineering but they want to be 'rich' and commerce is synonymous with being rich to them, which in practise isn't' the reality of the situation.

If you want to be an engineer, pick a B.Eng. If you want go into commerce, a B.Eng/BCom could  be a good idea because it demonstrates strong analytical skills and stuff.

[pi]

To answer your question pi, I explained to you before, it's no good doing both degrees because no company will hire you to do both engineering and commerce work. Pick one, get really good at it and specialise in some sub-field. That's the way to go. A lot of people pick it I assume because they want to do engineering but they want to be 'rich' and commerce is synonymous with being rich to them, which in practise isn't' the reality of the situation.

If you want to be an engineer, pick a B.Eng. If you want go into commerce, a B.Eng/BCom could  be a good idea because it demonstrates strong analytical skills and stuff.

Of course I don't do either degree, but from what I heard at Open Days contradicts what you've just said. From memory (going back a couple of years), it's become a popular combination because traditionally engineers didn't have as larger a role in the managing and finance matters of the firm, or various projects. Of course this wouldn't give you a massive job advantage, but I guess the skills would be useful.

Also, I think there's a reason why in any Monash Eng degree (incl Aerospace Eng) that there is a compulsory Comm unit in first year (I think?). Probably has some correlation with the above.

Also, you're assuming there aren't students who actually have an interest in both Comm and Eng and would just like to get into either a bit more than in a single degree (such as the OP perhaps).

[b^3]

Also, I think there's a reason why in any Monash Eng degree (incl Aerospace Eng) that there is a compulsory Comm unit in first year (I think?). Probably has some correlation with the above.

For straight aero there's a compulsory commerce unit (you pick from a list of 8 or so) in first year, while in aero/sci and some of the other double degrees it's an option in 5th year (you don't have to pick it).

The only other single degree that I can find that makes you do a comm unit is if you go the mech eng way, as it makes you do one in 4th year. Doesn't appear to be for any others streams.

Of course I don't do either degree, but from what I heard at Open Days contradicts what you've just said. From memory (going back a couple of years), it's become a popular combination because traditionally engineers didn't have as larger a role in the managing and finance matters of the firm, or various projects. Of course this wouldn't give you a massive job advantage, but I guess the skills would be useful.

I've heard this quite a lot as well, and they seemed to keep pushing the advantages of us doing the single commerce unit when we all complained about it in first year. It's not as if they were trying to get us to pay more or anything, we'd be doing the same amount of units if we didn't have to do that comm unit.

As to the load for double degrees, I've heard some people celebrating that they did comm along side eng, as it 'lightened their load' for the semester, allowing them to do better in the eng units. e.g. Instead of doing 4 eng units in a semester and having 24 contact hours or so, doing the double degree with 2 eng and 2 comm, giving them less contact hours, allowing them to focus on the eng units (this isn't why you should choose the double, just more talking about loads for double degree).

[816]

Of course I don't do either degree, but from what I heard at Open Days contradicts what you've just said. From memory (going back a couple of years), it's become a popular combination because traditionally engineers didn't have as larger a role in the managing and finance matters of the firm, or various projects. Of course this wouldn't give you a massive job advantage, but I guess the skills would be useful.

Also, I think there's a reason why in any Monash Eng degree (incl Aerospace Eng) that there is a compulsory Comm unit in first year (I think?). Probably has some correlation with the above.

Also, you're assuming there aren't students who actually have an interest in both Comm and Eng and would just like to get into either a bit more than in a single degree (such as the OP perhaps).

Nah, engineers have always had a role in the management, I'd just argue commerce degrees aren't the way towards that.

Generally, outline of engineering professional's life would be something vaguely like this:
Start off as a grad engineer: ~3 years
Work towards becoming a lead engineer: ~6 years
Lead/Senior Engineer: Indefinite, from here you try and move into management if you want to make a lot of money.

The only step where a commerce degree could possible assist you is at the Lead/Senior Engineer part. I'd argue, however, that management skills are something you gain after a while with experience and stuff rather than as part of the degree.

However, if people do like commerce and do like engineering, sure do a double. But eventually you will need to make a choice between the two. I simply feel it's better to make that choice before you start your degree so you can devote 100% of your efforts to your field and become really good at what you do.

@B^3, whether you lighten the load or not, you're still getting the same out of your engineering degree. After you get your first engineering job, your grades become instantly irrelevant. If you're a good engineer, you'll shine from there on, if you're not, you'll fail in the profession. So, if you were worked harder during your degree, it's better for your prospects.

[Greatness]

Nah, engineers have always had a role in the management, I'd just argue commerce degrees aren't the way towards that.

Generally, outline of engineering professional's life would be something vaguely like this:
Start off as a grad engineer: ~3 years
Work towards becoming a lead engineer: ~6 years
Lead/Senior Engineer: Indefinite, from here you try and move into management if you want to make a lot of money.

The only step where a commerce degree could possible assist you is at the Lead/Senior Engineer part. I'd argue, however, that management skills are something you gain after a while with experience and stuff rather than as part of the degree.

Yep that sounds about right from what I've read and been told. You get into management positions through experience, management wouldn't let a graduate manage a project! Typically, once you have gotten to a lead/senior engineer role as 816 has said you can take on management roles, or even shift industries completely i.e. into the finance industry. The knowledge and skills that you have gained as an engineer would be highly valued in the finance industry.

I'm doing BCom/MEng at Melbourne, well intending to go on with MEng sometime in the future. The flexibility it gives is great, I was a bit critical of the Melbourne Model initially, but it has kept my options open which is what I was after. I'm still not entirely sure what I want to do after I graduate and to be honest, I'm not too fussed. I'll just take whatever opportunities come my way!

[spectroscopy]

another thing for the OP to consider would be a straight bachelor of engineering, then after a few years experience, going to business school and getting an MBA, then you can move up an engineering company all the way to the top (potentially)

just an idea