[offtopic split] Egalitariansm + feminism + related topics

[Ballerina]

Guys, I legit need somewhere to sleep on campus this afternoon. Does anyone know anywhere comfy and quiet?

Some people sleep in the women's room. It's generally quiet, but if it looks as though someone is asleep, people will be even quieter and whisper to each other instead. This is a safe space, hobbitle.

[Holmes]

Some people sleep in the women's room.

I got the impression that guys weren't really allowed there?

[Ballerina]

I'm sure it's difficult to remember that hobbitle is female despite the fact she does engineering.

[Russ]

I got the impression that guys weren't really allowed there?

Nah, guys are allowed in just fine. You should go check it out sometime

[Ballerina]

Actually ~30% of ESD2 is females

Hey guys no need to thumbs down Ballerina!

Which is pretty low. It's similar for males in my visual arts and psychology classes. I almost did engineering just because there are so many encouragement scholarships for females

Oh my god my boyfriend downvoted me

[vox nihili]

Yep, feminists standing up for equality again with a "women's room". Cool.

[Ballerina]

It is lovely actually, there are support groups held there for domestic violence and sexual assault experiences.

pls remind me not to bring up gender around uni students again

[Ballerina]

30% is still a very large portion considering my physics cohort in high school had 3 girls out of 55 students!

Yess both of these figures are quite low, but I couldn't consider physics because they don't hand out as many scholarships~

[vox nihili]

It is lovely actually, there are support groups held there for domestic violence and sexual assault experiences.

pls remind me not to bring up gender around uni students again

Which is undoubtedly fantastic and certainly not something I'd knock, but it does go completely against the whole ethos of egalitarianism to have a specific space that is designated for women only.

[Ballerina]

Which is undoubtedly fantastic and certainly not something I'd knock, but it does go completely against the whole ethos of egalitarianism to have a specific space that is designated for women only.

I really dislike overly academic, impractical, out-of-touch political debates and think it's quite obvious why it's there having worked at a women's shelter and considering statistical data on discrimination. I won't respond further because I don't think it's necessary, and you're free to argue without a response or find a different arena with a more welcoming party.

[Russ]

Which is undoubtedly fantastic and certainly not something I'd knock, but it does go completely against the whole ethos of egalitarianism to have a specific space that is designated for women only.

What is the whole ethos of egalitarianism

[vox nihili]

What is the whole ethos of egalitarianism

Simple, that people are treated on the basis of their personal attributes except for those that are based on their sex.


I understand that anything that challenges feminism generally gets shit on, which is unfortunate. In many ways, it's understandable. The majority of people who oppose feminism are men who are very keen to see their natural advantage (in the sense that they're born into advantage generated by a deeply sexist society, not natural in the biological sense) continue into perpetuity. Personally, I just find it difficult to reconcile my beliefs in an egalitarian society that is free from sexism with a movement that openly encourages sexism.

An opportunity for women who have been the victims of domestic abuse and/or sexual assault to find comfort in another victims is a fantastic idea and certainly not something to which I'd object. The idea of a room devoted especially to women at the exclusion of men, however, is sexist and intentionally provocative; except for, of course, when it is used to provide genuine support to abuse victims.

Part of me just feels like feminism would have a better chance of achieving its goals if it moved on from the "us vs them" mentality and were more constructive in its approach. For real change to be sustainable, you have to unite the masses and that's something I don't think the feminist movement does.

[Russ]

I don't think discussing it is going to be a worthwhile experience, because I think you have a lot of cognitive dissonance. Do you also get upset about scholarships to aboriginal students, because those promote the wrong, 'us vs them', mentality? Something that doesn't practically disadvantage men can't really be construed as sexism. I'm perfectly happy to oppose examples of discrimination against men but a woman's room is so far away from that.

In short, I asked about egalitarianism to make the point that if women are disadvantaged, then acting to redress that situation is really not against the 'ethos'.

[achre]

I don't think egalitarianism or feminism has anything to do with whether or not a women-only room is justified. It's obviously inegalitarian, and doesn't seem to correlate with feminism in an obvious way. It still seems like a good (or, if you'll object to that, at least harmless) idea.

[ninwa]

mod edit split thread etc