school vs fun

[enwiabe]

The "working for you" line frustrates me.

Bosses aren't disproportionately represented by smart and high academic achievers. Someone like Damo is more likely to rely on private investment when he's on the frontier of cutting edge research. He'll probably be working for someone, but he'll definitely have plenty of resources at his disposal (avoiding the word money, since people seem to think money isn't worth much), and be highly demanded.

To be honest, Damo doesn't seem like boss material. Boss material is perhaps someone who would have stood up to their teacher. That's not a good or a bad thing. Your own traits lead you in the direction you're suited for.

I thoroughly disagree. Office politics are the most crucial thing in climbing the corporate ladder. If you stand up to a higher-up and they have connected friends, you're screwed. Who knows what the teacher would have done to Damo if he'd stepped up and fought back? I'd say it was an extremely smart move. He would have lost out going over his head because Damo has shown that he can move ahead effectively without the teacher, so it would only have been a marginal gain to go to someone higher up.

[Collin Li]

coblin- I may have stood up to him if it wasn't the first day of meeting him, that with the fact of new classmates, I didn't want to be even more disliked by my pupils in some respects. Or get off on the wrong foot.

Definitely, and I'm not telling you off for being 'weak' or anything, but I'm just saying that someone suited to be a boss of a firm probably has the personality that'd fire up in that situation.

Like I said, your traits will lead you where you're better off, and I was just pedantically opposing the viewpoint that smart kids will end up being your bosses. Not true, but sure, they'll probably end up being highly demanded with good jobs -- point is that they'll be working for someone.

[enwiabe]

Collin, plz read my reply.

[Damo17]

Yeah, I was torn between standing up for myself maybe getting in the bad books of teachers and taking it in my stride and don't worry about it. I have self taught myself many of the topics, my old maths methods teacher had a son in the same position as me at Melbourne High School, he is also very interested in Maths but his teacher didn't like him going ahead and he started to hate that class.
I will keep going at my pace and perform well in SAC's and not mind what my teacher or pupils think. Ultimately, I shouldn't mind what others think, I am creating a life at which I am comfortable with, if others think I am crazy by going ahead and doing so much maths the we are on different career paths to which they can't acknowledge the tremendous passion and desire I have to do well and learn.
Many students I see lack the desire at year 11 to study and learn.
I have learnt many topics ahead of the class such as; Differentiation, Circular Functions, Logarithmic and Exponential Functions, Vectors, Complex numbers, Kinematics all of which I found I enjoyed so much I wanted to do more and more. This drive is a very good trait to have as one needs drive to be successful in life.

I'll be sure to post any questions I am having a hard time at on here, you are all such wonderful, helpful, knowledgeable and caring people which I'm sure I will enjoy being here. Thanks enwiabe.

[Collin Li]

The "working for you" line frustrates me.

Bosses aren't disproportionately represented by smart and high academic achievers. Someone like Damo is more likely to rely on private investment when he's on the frontier of cutting edge research. He'll probably be working for someone, but he'll definitely have plenty of resources at his disposal (avoiding the word money, since people seem to think money isn't worth much), and be highly demanded.

To be honest, Damo doesn't seem like boss material. Boss material is perhaps someone who would have stood up to their teacher. That's not a good or a bad thing. Your own traits lead you in the direction you're suited for.

I thoroughly disagree. Office politics are the most crucial thing in climbing the corporate ladder. If you stand up to a higher-up and they have connected friends, you're screwed. Who knows what the teacher would have done to Damo if he'd stepped up and fought back? I'd say it was an extremely smart move. He would have lost out going over his head because Damo has shown that he can move ahead effectively without the teacher, so it would only have been a marginal gain to go to someone higher up.

One of the more important traits of a good boss is one who is confident with their decisions. Office politics include charisma, and it's of my opinion that someone with the tenacity and passion of their own ideals will prevail. Sure, in the short run, people with power might throw their weight around, but office politics also accounts for individuals who can shape the field around them. Meager observers will not make it very far, as they are too concerned about losing their job. In my opinion, potential bosses are people who are risk-takers because they can get higher returns.

[enwiabe]

It depends on the situation. There's no room for Damo to move up the ranks. Students are expected to respect teachers and that is that. Believe me Collin, I'm speaking from personal experience. I stood up to unfair teachers in my day and it brought me nothing but hardship. It wasn't a wise move, and if I could go back in time, I'd just sit down and stfu.

[Collin Li]

It depends on the situation. There's no room for Damo to move up the ranks. Students are expected to respect teachers and that is that. Believe me Collin, I'm speaking from personal experience. I stood up to unfair teachers in my day and it brought me nothing but hardship. It wasn't a wise move, and if I could go back in time, I'd just sit down and stfu.

There are a lot of things you tell me about your lectures where I think you should sit down and STFU. That's because your interventions are often perceived as attention seeking and fame-grabbing. They often exert some arrogance and seem like you are advertising your intellectual acclaim.

But note that I wasn't even advocating Damo to have stuck up to his teacher. I am just saying that "boss material" is someone who has that personality. Many entrepreneurs didn't do too well in school, which, I guess, is consistent with your experiences.

[enwiabe]

There is a difference there between something called out on a whim and standing up to unfair teachers. I was not referring to the former in this thread. Believe me when I tell you that this was justified. I won't go into details because these people can be identified, and I do not wish to draw the ire of my previous school (which, for the most part, absolutely rocked ). But there were times when people would come up to me and tell me that I was being treated unfairly and would sympathise with the situation I was in. And, buoyed by such encouragement - I'd make a stand. It was a stupid decision that I regret, and I don't think that learning to put up with nasty people in a school environment is indicative, or non-indicative, of leadership qualities. There is no correlation whatsoever. I invite you to prove your theory or support it with evidence.

[Collin Li]

My hypothesis is an opinion (regarding "boss-worthy" personalities). I don't feel I need to prove it because I'm just putting it out there.

However, I do challenge the hypothesis that you end up working for the smart people in your classes (the "nerds"). If that must be defended, then that needs evidence.

[brendan]

If you goal is to maximize your ENTER score, then you should consider
(1) moving to another school with a more supportive environment
(2) surrounding yourself with supportive peers and/or mentors
(3) talk with someone higher up, however, if you are going to public school then this strategy will be less effective because generally public school admins don't have any incentive to give a shit about student needs, because they effectively have captive customers who have little choice.
(4) Will my relationship with this teacher effect my ENTER? Is he teaching me a Unit 3/4 subject? Take note that teachers bitch about their students quite frequently, so even if he doesn't teach you a Unit 3/4 subject he might talk negatively about you to other teachers that may go on to teach you a unit 3/4 subject.

The problem with not standing up, is that the other person thinks your a push-over, and may escalate their attacks.

The problems with standing up arises when the attacker is in a position of authority with the power to adversely affect your welfare.

I guess then it is a balancing act. Which outweighs the other?

In the corporate world, office politics hardly ever involves "standing up" but rather, undermining the person behind their backs.

[Collin Li]

I agree with Brendan. If office politics is getting in the way, which is really more of an office job problem, then pack your bags and go elsewhere. It's hard to apply this to office jobs, because it's hard to regain your position, but it's much easier to do this in schools. Teachers don't really have room to throw their weight around, unless they're protected by some sort of stupid union contract.

[dcc]

Damo17:

I am in a very similar position to you (albeit the subjects are year 12, but it is the same situation), having completed the specialist maths curriculum a couple of months ago, and having to face the grades criticisms about my passion for mathematics.  While I doubt my experience was anywhere near as bad as yours (as I believe most of the teasing was in good faith ), just hang in there, I'm sure that if you are as interested in maths as you are then you will have no troubles with VCE at all.  I was lucky enough to have a teacher who was not intimidated by the fact that I worked ahead in class and gave me extra things to revise and practice exams to do while I was sitting bored in class (there isn't much to do at school lol).

I would also not be concerned with the views of your fellow students, as they probably wouldn't understand the way your mind works (I presume only you can do that with any level of accuracy) and hence are unfair to be insulting you regarding your study habits.  If you require any help with the maths (which I very much doubt) then just ask in the Maths forum, as we have Ahmad, the maths wizard, and he can solve anything.

Good Luck with your VCE

Robert.

[costargh]

I completely agree with Brendan and furthermore, I think it is imperative that you move schools. I have no doubt that through independent learning you could achieve a respectable ENTER but if you want to maximise your ENTER you should definitely move schools (but if you do, make sure you do your research well and don't end up moving to a very similar school).

I know a few people at Eumemmerring and I don't mean to sound harsh but for someone like you and what your potential seems to be, you shouldn't be around those people. That's just a general view of the school. Usually people who drop out from my school end up going there and my school isn't even that good. The median study score of Eumemmerring last year was 26 and only 2% of study scores were 40 and over. I am just giving you these facts so you are well informed if you choose to change schools. Don't settle for mediocrity.

If your school can't cater for your needs, then you need to move to a school that can.

[Damo17]

Thanks dcc, I hope to do alot of the methods 3+4 and specialist 3+4 books by the start of next year to bring down the pressure heaps and maximise my understanding of the work. Luckily, my methods teacher this year does not teach 3+4, so next year I will have very good teachers who understand me a bit better.
Your right I should be fine if I can cope with the flack I get from others, which I am used to. I feel comfort in knowing these people can't comprehend how my brain works and how interested I am in Mathematics which I hope will get me through these times. I usually don't need help because if I am stuck I persevere with it and do eventually get the correct answer which is very gratifying. The problem with my methods teacher as opposed to your is that he won't give me extra help, he's more focused on the rest of the class and sometimes glances over to see what I am doing, as long as I am doing something, he doesn't really care so soon I will be going on to Methods 3+4.
Good luck to you too.

But with that costargh, cost becomes a major factor, I am the youngest of 3 children in my family, my sister is in year 12 and to go to a school at which could cater properly for me would cost too much money, the highest ENTER from Eumemmerring last year was something like 93 or 94. I am hoping with hard work, sound knowledge of course work and help from my good teachers I can achieve an ENTER above 95. One has to aim high to be challenged to achieve your best.
I usually hang around people in my maths and physics classes, I love to play chess which is a great intellectual game.

[Ahmad]

To Damo,

I recommend you read this,

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Calculus.php

and perhaps view the forum if you're interested, which can be found here:

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Forum/index.php

Regards, Betty