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April 19, 2024, 06:55:11 pm

Author Topic: Why do organisms prefer life over death?  (Read 1730 times)  Share 

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Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« on: July 26, 2008, 10:48:15 pm »
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I was thinking about a few things when I realised I didn't know the answer to this question. Is there a definite answer to this question or is there still debate over it? I reasoned that it might have something to do with the Second Law of Thermodynamics but that introduces lots of assumptions. I guess to answer it you have to know a bit more about the nature of consciousness and why it exists. To me it seems a bit odd that a molecule is indifferent as to what happens to it, but if you have a single-celled organism, it suddenly develops a 'consciousness' and this 'consciousness' tells it that it doesn't want to die.

So yeah I guess there are two related questions:
If organisms are conscious, then why are they?
Why do organisms prefer life over death?


Eriny

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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 08:59:41 am »
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This is why I think that there must be a meaning to life, given our innate tendency to stay alive. Doesn't mean I know what it is.

I don't think organisms need a consciousness in order to keep alive. Keeping alive is just what is in its best interests, biologically. For that matter, if humans lack a conscious mind, I don't think their predispositions would change. I guess this relates to the mind/body problem (a whole area of philosophy that I don't really want to get into), in which I'm a monist - I personally don't think that the conscious or the mind is separate to the body (or brain) and in this instance it doesn't have to be, because it's in the body's best interest to survive anyway, not necessarily the mind's.

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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2008, 10:57:43 am »
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I agree with Eriny, it is because we are maintaining what is best for our existence that we are alive and well to this day. Many people can commit suicide or contract deadly disorders, but with this, people still want to find a way to survive, and live their lives to the fullest, regardless of what their circumstances are. I guess it is innate human nature.

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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2008, 02:18:06 pm »
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I agree with Eriny, it is because we are maintaining what is best for our existence that we are alive and well to this day.

Hmm yeah, but why do we want to maintain our existence?

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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2008, 07:06:29 pm »
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Maybe because there is so much to do in life. I mean, we only have one chance to live, so we might as well make the most of it whilst we are still alive and well. This is true, in a sense, because when we are sick, and on our deathbed, we always wish we had lived a better life. And not too drastic either, maybe just make a few simple changes, which we weren't capable of doing because of one circumstance or another.

I guess too many people take life for granted, and living it properly is the only way in which we can be truly happy about what we have achieved in life before death surpasses us all.

Lol, I am so philosophical :P

Collin Li

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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2008, 07:41:44 pm »
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Err... I'm sure there are suicidal organisms. They don't exist for very long and hence do not prevail in the gene pool.

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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2008, 07:51:57 pm »
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Life is genetically programmed to survive, as an individual and as a species

Innate reflexes of organisms are to prevent harm, or lessen harm to the individual. Mating and maternal instincts are genetically encoded to ensure propogation of the species. The animal kingdom is full of examples of animals who survive thanks to reflexes and instincts they were born with

It's not an issue of preference at all, really
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 08:18:07 pm by BA22 »

Collin Li

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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2008, 07:59:32 pm »
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It's natural selection, that's all.

If there were organisms that preferred death, do you think they'd be around for us to observe?

That is, we live because we prefer life - we don't prefer life because we live.

Rietie

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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2008, 09:33:25 pm »
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Err... I'm sure there are suicidal organisms. They don't exist for very long and hence do not prevail in the gene pool.

Suicidal organisms? heh.

Does that mean there are suicidal plants and insects out there?
Although I think some termites (the warrior ones) are suicidal, attempting to invade other nests and kill all those that live there, killing themselves in the process.
Well... I think that's what I learnt from A Bug's Life.
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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2008, 09:36:28 pm »
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Ok I think maybe I didn't articulate my question well enough. What my question asks is 'why' organisms want to survive. In this I am ignoring such explanations as 'there's so much to do in life' and 'natural selection' merely because they are irrelevant to the question.
If you view all things as matter, what I'm getting at is: why is it that some types of matter choose to survive? If you look at it from a physics perspective, 'surviving' isn't an innate property of complex arrangements of molecules (as far as I'm aware). If you were given a sample of molecules that were arranged to form a human, you wouldn't expect it to start acting like a human. You would expect it to act according to however molecules behave. What's more, you wouldn't expect 'it' to want to remain as a human. If this is wrong, then perhaps there needs to be a new theory of molecules for very complex systems, e.g. complex systems tend to remain complex.

Collin Li

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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2008, 11:13:01 pm »
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Natural selection is not so irrelevant to the question. It is what drives us to have the biochemical makeup that longs to survive. What actually allows this is probably to do with the fields of neuroscience and physiology.

Collin Li

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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2008, 07:23:01 am »
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You can think of the biochemical resistance to live in terms of potential energy. Essentially it is. We have a biochemical system that is keeping us from the more stable state (combustion with oxygen to release energy).

I guess what you are interested in is the biochemical details that resist these changes. I don't believe it requires a new theory of molecules, nor does it contradict with the Second Law of Thermodynamics. It can be possible that there are stable outcomes in macromolecular systems - even if overall, things generally wish to lose their energy.

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Re: Why do organisms prefer life over death?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2008, 05:37:25 pm »
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Nice explanation coblin, I like how you related life to potential energy.