ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Universities - Victoria => Victoria University => Topic started by: nathhan. on October 06, 2011, 11:41:16 pm
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So word on the street is that VU has a poor reputatikn, however its got the course i seem to be most interested in which is bachelor of law/bachelor of international trade, i just wanted to know why it has this bad rep? Im thinking maybe because it has campuses in footscray and st albans which kind of stir people away from it as aposed to those in the city (such as the course i want to do) thanks!!!
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Well there's a few things to consider with VU.
Some courses are good, most are average. For some courses, including I think... mid-wifery and teaching, VU is a fantastic University.
However, most are pretty shitty. Also, like you said, the area that the campuses are located plays a pretty big role, like you said pretty shitty areas.
What I would advice you to do is speak to the University about their course, the one you're interested in, and see what they have to say about. More importantly, speaking to students currently sitting the course, their opinion is the most important in your situation.
reputatikn
LOL :)
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reputatikn
LOL :)
"as aposed"
LOL :)
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I would strongly suggest you take a look at Commerce/Law at Deakin where you can major in International Trade for your Commerce portion of the degree
In my opinion there's nothing wrong with VU, but if you do end up going there, be aware that in terms of facilities, lecturers...etc. it's not going to be comparable to say Monash or Deakin, but if you don't get into Deakin, then I'd say just go for VU, there's nothing wrong with it at all!
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To be honest, in most cases where you get your degree from doesn't matter after a couple jobs. They look at experience. So, just in that regard its *OK*.
The problem is, when applying for a job, you'll probably be on the bottom of the heap. Thats just the reality of the situation. If an employer has the resumes of 50 new graduates, he'd choose the best he can. He's probably going to aim for someone from UoM or monash. It's just the sad reality of the situation for Law and Commerce type things. This is true for all of the big firms from what i've heard and for a lot of the small ones.
A university is still better than no university if it is your only option but i'd urge you to try get into somewhere else or transfer later on if you intend to work in this field.
Teachingwise, i personally believe that Monash/UoM/La Trobe are more or less equivalent, maybe rmit and it gets really iffy around the swinburne/VU end. Bigger, more respected institutions tend to attract bigger, more respected academics unless they're looking for a downgrade for some reason...
RMIT is a good example. Some of their degrees aren't so good. They do *very* well in some other things though like software engineering.
VU is also looked down upon because of the low enters required to get in. I don't think the environment would be very good either, depends on who you associate yourself with. Most of the people there would have fairly low enters which may or may not reflect on their work ethic (best to refrain from judgment here, for all you know a family member might of died during their VCE or something). Most of the time it is a reflection however, most of the people in your course probably won't be very motivated to work and just slack off, party all the time, ect. as they say old habits die hard. There is definitely a time and place for these things and even at UoM and monash those things happen fairly regularly but people still actually produce quality work as well. So, thats another large reason i think.
I'd really urge you to try get into somewhere else for the above reasons.
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I hear alot of things about the low atars needed however the course i want to get into requires 84.35 and is located inthe city, do you think that employers take notice of these things? Or is it purely based on the university title?
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first, i think quality of teaching is pretty much the same for all undergrad degrees at uni. I've had quite a number of average lecturers at Monash and I doubt there are any significant differences between unis...
Buuuut the big problem is you want to do law... and for law VU is at the bottom of the pecking order... It's a bit ridiculous though because I've heard from others who have transferred into Monash that Monash law is easier than other unis and I know a lot of people from other unis who are a lot more hard working than some monash people.... but that's just the way it is i guess.
also as someone said, try com/law at deakin. It is probably identical to what you want to do anyway and has much better employment prospects.
ps. i actually once used some VU notes to study for a monash first year law test because they were better than the notes we had been given....
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It's hard to say easily if a university is 'bad' or not. I think VU is not very well recognised or considered to be prestigious, but that does not necessarily make it a bad university. It kind of depends how much your future industry cares about prestige, and how it weighs that against other things you might have (e.g. job experience, extra curricular activities, volunteer work, awesome grades, other qualifications you might have). Unfortunately, depending on what you want to do with your degree, you may have to comply with whatever opinions other people have about prestige, particularly if you want a specific job in a competitive industry straight away. If, however, you're a bit more flexible, or if you want to work in an industry where people are a little more down to earth and/or where things are less competitive, it might not matter what university you went to. You need to weigh this up with your goals for the future.
Secondly, resources makes a huge difference to your life at university. I paid no attention to this when I was in high school and looking at potential universities, which was stupid. In order to study well, you need access to research materials (including a good library), and you want resources like wi-fi on-campus, places you can go for advice (academic or otherwise), and plenty of events and clubs where you can meet people (especially if you are a commuter). I don't know if VU has these resources or not, I assume they probably do. You need to have a look at what they have, compare this to other unis, and decide whether it will be enough for you. I think ideally, the resource-aspect of universities should be set up so as to give all students a sense of belonging on-campus and able to perform as best they can in their studies.
Lastly, the teaching experience is really important. If you can, try to get in touch with someone who is doing the course you are interested in and ask them about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the courses. And it is about more than whether or not the lectures are boring (you can have boring lectures at any uni in the country). You'll want to look at things like how many people there are in a lecture and a tute, whether lecturers are available for you to ask questions, and the quality of the online learning resources. You can also probably find survey results somewhere on the internets which would give some indicator of quality, but I would suggest that without comments they are really difficult to accurately interpret.
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So word on the street is that VU has a poor reputatikn, however its got the course i seem to be most interested in which is bachelor of law/bachelor of international trade, i just wanted to know why it has this bad rep? Im thinking maybe because it has campuses in footscray and st albans which kind of stir people away from it as aposed to those in the city (such as the course i want to do) thanks!!!
Just because the University is in Footscray doesn't mean that it has a bad reputation. It just shows how ignorant and biased you and many others can be. A University is a University no matter where it is, Vic Uni is a good uni with a great campus.
So make a choice for yourself. :o
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So word on the street is that VU has a poor reputatikn, however its got the course i seem to be most interested in which is bachelor of law/bachelor of international trade, i just wanted to know why it has this bad rep? Im thinking maybe because it has campuses in footscray and st albans which kind of stir people away from it as aposed to those in the city (such as the course i want to do) thanks!!!
Just because the University is in Footscray doesn't mean that it has a bad reputation. It just shows how ignorant and biased you and many others can be. A University is a University no matter where it is, Vic Uni is a good uni with a great campus.
So make a choice for yourself. :o
Regardless of the opinions we might share (as in VU being a good uni) the reality of the situation is that in terms of employment prospects, for some jobs, the university is incredibly important in determining where you might be hired. If an employer is looking at two candidates, one that went to VU and another that went to Deakin, identical in all other regards, 9/10 times they will go with the one with the degree from Deakin. That's the way it is. Not saying it's true that Deakin is superior that VU, just saying that employers value a degree from Deakin more than one from VU.
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Yes life is all about getting the best payed job and making the most amount of money and investing it with people who are graduates of Melbourne, Monash or Deakin on the global market.
Try doing a course fro the sake of increasing your knowledge not just about the outcome of money that may arise.
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Yes life is all about getting the best payed job and making the most amount of money and investing it with people who are graduates of Melbourne, Monash or Deakin on the global market.
Try doing a course fro the sake of increasing your knowledge not just about the outcome of money that may arise.
I'd love to try living in your world where money doesn't mean anything and you're able to provide for a family and pay rent with all the knowledge you've learnt. Unfortunately, I live in the real world and this isn't the case.
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@Panicnode
You could not be more WRONG
How would even know this? Both my parents are university educated, one in the engineering sector and one in the education sector. They both obtained degrees from Melbourne University and on no occasion has the employer cared where they studied. The reality is that in the context of your professional life, Uni represents your first foot steps and you learn about most things pertaining to your job on the job. As a result, they care where you have worked, not where you have studied. Your Uni education counts for absolute zero unless you studied at Harvard or Yale or did something really outstanding.
Source: Both my parents went to uni and now hire people in their respective fields.
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Yes life is all about getting the best payed job and making the most amount of money and investing it with people who are graduates of Melbourne, Monash or Deakin on the global market.
Try doing a course fro the sake of increasing your knowledge not just about the outcome of money that may arise.
I'd love to try living in your world where money doesn't mean anything and you're able to provide for a family and pay rent with all the knowledge you've learnt. Unfortunately, I live in the real world and this isn't the case.
You're full of shit, that's what you are. Talking about the worth of a uni degree when you haven't even got one, or attended a job interview.
What will determine if you get the job or not: Your interview. If you can demonstrate a passion for the job and desire to work hard, you'll get the job even with a TAFE diploma. Don't talk shit.
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@Panicnode
You could not be more WRONG
How would even know this? Both my parents are university educated, one in the engineering sector and one in the education sector. They both obtained degrees from Melbourne University and on no occasion has the employer cared where they studied. The reality is that in the context of your professional life, Uni represents your first foot steps and you learn about most things pertaining to your job on the job. As a result, they care where you have worked, not where you have studied. Your Uni education counts for absolute zero unless you studied at Harvard or Yale or did something really outstanding.
Source: Both my parents went to uni and now hire people in their respective fields.
That's great for later in life. I'm not exactly part of a wealthy family and I'm looking to launch straight into a job after work. Therefore, I want the best possible chance of employment after I finish my degree. I was simply recommending that in terms of first time in the field employment options, where you studied does matter.
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Yes thank you , someone who understands where im coming from. My father worked at Melbourne Uni for 12 years and it's not all it's cracked up to be.
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@Panicnode
You could not be more WRONG
How would even know this? Both my parents are university educated, one in the engineering sector and one in the education sector. They both obtained degrees from Melbourne University and on no occasion has the employer cared where they studied. The reality is that in the context of your professional life, Uni represents your first foot steps and you learn about most things pertaining to your job on the job. As a result, they care where you have worked, not where you have studied. Your Uni education counts for absolute zero unless you studied at Harvard or Yale or did something really outstanding.
Source: Both my parents went to uni and now hire people in their respective fields.
That's great for later in life. I'm not exactly part of a wealthy family and I'm looking to launch straight into a job after work. Therefore, I want the best possible chance of employment after I finish my degree. I was simply recommending that in terms of first time in the field employment options, where you studied does matter.
Seconded, in terms of breaking into the industry, it is easier to get in if you have graduated from a higher tier university as I found out with my sister and her friends when applying for teaching jobs. The majority of employers didn't even look at people from VU when comparing them to others when they both didn't have any expirence.
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Panicmode, once again, you're wrong.
What will get you your first job is a good interview.
Your Uni marks, the Uni you studied at doesn't matter one little bit. I know this because my parents are the ones deciding who gets the job.
What gets you the job is a good interview where you demonstrate that you actually want this job because you love it and are willing to work hard, regardless where you come from.
What university you went to does not mean one little bit, unless you absolutely woo them with a Harvard PhD.
Do you realise every Victorian Uni follows the same curriculum?
b^3, my mother's school prefers Vic uni over Melbourne?
That is one single case, and I'm sure that there are other uni's that prefer vic uni graduates as well. But in general that (refer to previous post) is what we found when she was going for job interviews. I agree that the uni that you went to is not going to get you the job, you have to be right for the job and have to show yourself in the way you want to be percieved.
Just want to point out that in terms of wanting to do the course to enjoy it, the facilites at different uni's are different. You may have access to certain equipment at some that the others don't. e.g. Monash is one of the only uni's in victoria that has a full-sized wind tunnel. Not that you are really going to be involved with it much as an undergrade, unless you do post grad stuff.
EDIT: added bracket after "but in general that"
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b^3:
If you love your job and truly want to work hard to get good at it. You will break into the industry without a sweat because the interviewer will see this and will absolutely not give a shit where you came from.
Other than that, connections help.
Agreed. Although life is tough sometimes, we just have to keep working hard at it.
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Panicmode, once again, you're wrong.
What will get you your first job is a good interview.
Your Uni marks, the Uni you studied at doesn't matter one little bit. I know this because my parents are the ones deciding who gets the job.
What gets you the job is a good interview where you demonstrate that you actually want this job because you love it and are willing to work hard, regardless where you come from.
What university you went to does not mean one little bit, unless you absolutely woo them with a Harvard PhD.
Do you realise every Victorian Uni follows the same curriculum?
b^3, my mother's school prefers Vic uni over Melbourne?
I am well aware of that the curriculums follow the same course outlines. However I respectfully disagree that your marks in University and where you went mean nothing in terms of finding employment. When breaking into the industry, some people will not even consider people without prior experience in the field unless they went to particular Universities. It is great that your parents are open minded like this. Unfortunately, not everyone is. I only hope I get someone like them to interview me.
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sd
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@Panicmode:
What are you basing your information off?
You can disagree all you want, but find evidence for me that they give a shit about your marks?
What industry are we talking about?
I'm basing this off my brother having difficulty finding employment after completing his degree.
I am of course talking about the industry I wish to join, medicine / pharmaceuticals / research.
This is not the case for all industries I know.
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sdsd
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Medicine doesn't at all matter. All the course are accredited by the AMA and follow more or less the same cirriculum. So, I wouldn't worry about that.
As for research that usually entails a PhD and if you have high enough marks to get a PhD you probably have high enough marks to move over to another uni if you so wish.
I know the law and commerce industries do pay attention to which uni you go to. I have heard around here if you did not go to UoM or Monash your chances of getting a job at these top companies is very very slim. If you are first starting off anyway. After you've had your first couple jobs it doesn't matter about where you got your degree from so much but where you have worked, ect.
It doesn't matter if theres a true difference in teaching quality or not (we can debate this till the cows come home) but there is a perceived difference in the minds of many people. In a situation where an employer gets 50 resumes for 1 job of course they'd choose what they consider the best they can get. So, just differentiating on resumes, i think they will look for people from UoM/Monash first in most cases. Especially for areas of abundance. If its an area of massive shortage like nursing, i doubt it matters very much at all.
Lets also please be respectful and respond to peoples arguments rather than swearing without presenting a good argument..
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It doesn't matter if theres a true difference in teaching quality or not (we can debate this till the cows come home) but there is a perceived difference in the minds of many people.
There is a difference in teaching quality, in general, between academics at VU and academics at UoM/MU. VU isn't atrocious but to suggest it's on par with the bigger universities is ridiculous. Academics follow money and when UoM spent millions on a new neuroscience building and just bought land and began construction on an infectious disease research lab, it's not hard to see where the best academics will be working.
VU is a competent university and the degree discrimination is not ideal, but it's unfortunately the way of the world that people (employers) will want the absolute best, even if the difference between them and the next best person is small.
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what about courses such as Law/Business which require an atar of 84?
if somebody from a firm was to hire a person, would they be like 'nah he's from vu, i'll look last' or is there differences in the type of course undertaken? because from what i have gathered, VU takes a very practical approach in terms of their Law course. The only reason i'm asking is because i applied for a PPP scholarship for the course.
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José Ramos-Horta went to Vic uni and he seems to be doing very fine.
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Law/Business in VU is 84, yes, but you have Monash whose law/commerce cutoff is at 98. Besides, the atar score is also largely determined by supply and demand. I think the legal culture in most first world countries is very much into prestige and reputation, that's just something to be aware of I guess.
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VU has nice friendly people :)
and nice environment but the internet connection was bad...I remembered that when i was there they alwasy made me change my log in password
in terms of courses...it depends on what course you are doing
MIDWIFERY- YAY GO MIDWIFERY is a good course
BUSINESS/LAW I've heard is pretty good
MATHS degree of some sort LOL-- not so good