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HSC Stuff => HSC English Stuff => HSC Subjects + Help => HSC English Extension 2 => Topic started by: elysepopplewell on January 28, 2016, 09:31:08 pm

Title: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on January 28, 2016, 09:31:08 pm
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Hey there!

I'm that student who would have done Extension 3 English if it existed. I graduated in 2015 and Extension 2 was my equal highest scoring subject. I cannot express to you what it was like to see that I got 47 in this course. I do have my reaction on video, but we'll save that for a rainy day. I was stoked. Absolutely stoked. The subject that everyone said is "soooo subjectively marked" (perhaps so) somehow turned in my favour. My major work has a wisp of my soul in every word.

I wrote a creative short story. My concept was based on the idea of their being a perpetual difference between appearance and reality. My setting was 1952 America. I chose my setting because I studied After the Bomb (Cold War era) in Extension 1 English. I played with the ideas of Oedipus Complexes, Stockholm Syndrome and Cognitive Dissonance. I can honestly say that before I began my major work, I couldn't have given you a proper answer if you asked what each of those meant.

I've created this thread as a public Q&A. I'm going to be working on a few bigger posts in a kind of "guide form" so if there is anything you want in that content, private message me or comment below. Because I did do a creative, I'm limited in telling you about the other media forms you can submit. However, I will give you my best effort to answer questions as they come, in a very informative way. Why? Because I know how few resources there are out there for this subject. I was in your shoes, last year! If you are in a school where lots of people do Extension 2, you should be stoked. I was the only one who completed the course in my cohort, and I met with my teacher for one hour every fortnight. But hey, it didn't hurt that 47/50. So because I was clawing the internet for more resources, I'm hoping to be that resource for you.

Message me privately if you need to, I will never not reply to them. But I encourage you comment publicly so that everyone can share the experience and response with you!

Best,
Elyse.
Title: Re: 47 in Extension 2 English: Ask me anything!
Post by: bmcclean on February 05, 2016, 09:09:21 pm
Hey! I'm loving my E2 course and really enjoying the creation process of my major work. When did you finish your work by? When did you finish you first draft by? Could you give some tips for the process? Thanks x
Title: Re: 47 in Extension 2 English: Ask me anything!
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 07, 2016, 11:29:41 am
Hey! I'm loving my E2 course and really enjoying the creation process of my major work. When did you finish your work by? When did you finish you first draft by? Could you give some tips for the process? Thanks x

Hey there, friend! I love that we're chatting on two different threads now haha.
Okay, so this is a goo question because everyone wants to know if they are behind or infront or what. I was the only student in my cohort to do Ext 2 so I had zero comparison of progress. So, by the end of this term I'd suggest that you want to be approaching half way in terms of word count. Obviously you have to halt your progress for half yearlies a little. I'm wary in saying where I think you should be at only because every creative mind works with a different process. However, I will speak from my experience. So by this stage I had my creative piece introduction kind of layed out, I had a lot of research ready but I was still constantly researching and reading and learning more, organically shaping my major work. After half yearlies I thought, okay, I've got to pump out some words here. No matter how shit they are, I need words. I can fix it later.

So this mentality built up my word limit and forced me to push through writer's block. Then I spent term 2 equally editing what I had so far and finishing my story. By the June holidays, I had completely finished my work and I really couldn't have left it any later. I mean, best case scenario is that you are three quarters or more complete. In saying this, I was only sitting on half way.

Spend term two going through the motions, updating your journal/log, reading more, editing more, writing more, getting more feedback and doing whatever other internal assessment your teacher set.

So, if I had to put this roughly it would look like this:

Term 4 - reading, reading, researching, reading, reading, developing concept, reading, reading, researching, writing everything in your journal.
Summer holidays - consolidating this knowledge or beginning the writing process.
Term 1 - writing. At this stage you are still researching, but keep writing. Only stop writing for half yearlies. Even then, try keep writing if you are behind. But don't let Extension 2 take over your other studies at this point - wait for the time near submission for that craziness to happen haha.
Term 1 holidays - try be half way. Better yet, be 3/4 of the way.
Term 2 - you probably have a lot of assessments at this point. So you've just got to power through and get words on the page.
Term 2 holidays - editing, editing everything. Also, be writing up a good version of your reflection statement.

Now...if you are reading this thinking "omg I'm already so behind" please don't! This is an idealistic schedule, but every writer/producer knows that schedules aren't always adhered to. Do your best.

My advice: When creativity strikes, WRITE. Drop everything. Because if you suffer writer's block, it's hard to push through.

My other advice: Use your journal. Log absolutely everything in there. Print off your drafts and stick them in with a date. Print off timelines, research, write down quotes, draw your thoughts. Do whatever! Just keep it logged. Keep your thoughts together, because it is easy for them to run wild...

Ask any more questions you have!
Throughout the year I want to focus on putting out some great content for Extension 2, because I know there is a gap in terms of resources for the topic! So every question a student asks, the more direction I have to know what you need! :)
Title: Re: 47 in Extension 2 English: Ask me anything!
Post by: bmcclean on February 08, 2016, 10:14:46 am
Yes, I know hah!  :) I would just talk to you on one thread but I figure it might be helpful for others to see the feedback too.


That sounds pretty okay, I'm chugging along on that kind of schedule. We're at the beginning of week 3 and currently I've written probably a quarter of my word count. I literally sat in front of my computer for hours on the weekend and codlin write anything, just deleted everything I typed. Major writers block. Usually I have the problem of writing too much but on this I can't seem to write enough!


Thanks again, Brianna.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: EmilyVanArendonk on April 26, 2016, 12:27:55 pm
Hey, I think that the E2 course is quite enjoyable and i am finding that i am running well with my schedule in regards to my major work however i was hoping that you may possibly have some guidance for the report that is due? Any help is greatly appreciated in relation to where to start, exactly what boxes should i be ticking in writing the report and any other bits and bobs that could help.
Thankyou, Emily
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on April 26, 2016, 11:02:10 pm
Hey, I think that the E2 course is quite enjoyable and i am finding that i am running well with my schedule in regards to my major work however i was hoping that you may possibly have some guidance for the report that is due? Any help is greatly appreciated in relation to where to start, exactly what boxes should i be ticking in writing the report and any other bits and bobs that could help.
Thankyou, Emily

Hey there!

I believe most reports follow the instruction of being based on independent research/investigation? If yours is the same, I suggest you ensure you talk about:
-Research into form (seriously, do not underestimate the importance of this bad boy)
-Research into concept
-Research into context

Then don't forget that you can categorise the research you did into organic research, structured, in class, out of class, etc.

You can start by simply mind mapping or listing the main features of your research into the above categories. Make sure that each important feature of the investigation is followed by an evaluation. You will have done research that you won't mention in your report because it was not significant enough - and that is totally, totally fine. You have limited words. You need to make sure that you are making a clear correlation to your major work as it stands currently, and your independent research. Be reflective, but be formal.

Make sure you evaluate what research/independent investigation means to you as a composer of a text. Is research integral? Was it a starting point or is it a continual process? Is it continuing to reshape your work or did it just give you that initial clear image?

When I submitted my own report, my feedback was that I should have made it more similar to how an official reflection statement would be. I did well in the report, but my teacher was hoping to receive more so she could help me more for my reflection statement. So have a read of as many of them as you can, look at the criteria for them, and then adapt it to your report. The reason for this is, the report is supposed to be preparation for your reflection statement. It is getting you into the reflective mindset early on so that you can get feedback about how you handled something so personal to the creative process, in a formal way.

Congratulations on feeling like you're running on schedule with your major work! Term 2 is tough. Get as much of it done as possible so that you optimise your editing time - that is where the magic happens.

Let me know if you have any more questions...keep me posted! :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: aoife98 on June 28, 2016, 04:55:21 pm
I used real newspaper articles throughout my short story to set different scenes. I've italicised and quoted them, putting the publication date and newspaper under neath, but should I submit an addition bibliography or foot note? Cheers x
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on June 28, 2016, 08:29:56 pm
I used real newspaper articles throughout my short story to set different scenes. I've italicised and quoted them, putting the publication date and newspaper under neath, but should I submit an addition bibliography or foot note? Cheers x

Hi there! This sounds super interesting! I'd 100% make a point of it in your reference statement, which removes the need for it to be in your short story! You could consider an appendix if it meant that your reader would have a chilling realisation post-reading, but otherwise, the reflection statement should suffice!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: hmmo_o on July 18, 2016, 07:52:43 pm
Hello Elyse!!

I am currently in the stage of polishing and editing my Major Work. I cannot believe how fast time has gone and I have about a month until submission!!!

One problem is that I'm struggling to cut down the words... the word limit for short stories (my form), as you know, is 6000 words... and I have gone from 8500 down to 6500, where I am stuck at the moment.

Did you have this sort of problem for your Major Work, and if so, do you have any tips for sticking to the word limit?

Thank you in advance,
Annie
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 18, 2016, 09:07:27 pm
Hello Elyse!!

I am currently in the stage of polishing and editing my Major Work. I cannot believe how fast time has gone and I have about a month until submission!!!

One problem is that I'm struggling to cut down the words... the word limit for short stories (my form), as you know, is 6000 words... and I have gone from 8500 down to 6500, where I am stuck at the moment.

Did you have this sort of problem for your Major Work, and if so, do you have any tips for sticking to the word limit?

Thank you in advance,
Annie

Wooohooo! Congratulations on being so close to the end! I hope you feel AMAZING because you deserve it. EVERY EXTENSION TWO STUDENT DESERVES IT.
You've made an enormous cull already - so good on you for doing that without shedding too many tears!

Okay, this is tedious, but this is how I ended my editing process. I went through every, single, sentence, word, by, word, and made sure that there was not a single word that was the weak link in the sentence, or a single sentence that let me down. I cut out about 200 words by doing this. I mean, meticulously looking at every single word and every connotation of that word. This helped with not just cutting down, but also make what remained far stronger (I'd substitute words for other words as well, not just culling the lot).

So you can cut, like, 200 words like this. If you're daring!

Then you're still a little over. So this is where you need to touch the plot a bit. So consider changing the order of a paragraph or too, or deciding if that reflection paragraph is necessary, or is that setting the scene paragraph necessary? By showing your work to a few people, you should ask them what part bores them. Ask them to be super honest and to reveal what the most boring part of the text is. Then, get rid of it. Or, at the least, cut it in half and make the remainder less boring. I know it's harsh! And asking for too many opinions is dangerous because you just can't please EVERYONE! Even though you want your piece to do exactly that. So, be wary with asking people for opinions, but at the same time, that can be an extremely valuable tool!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: hmmo_o on July 19, 2016, 04:11:29 pm
Wooohooo! Congratulations on being so close to the end! I hope you feel AMAZING because you deserve it. EVERY EXTENSION TWO STUDENT DESERVES IT.
You've made an enormous cull already - so good on you for doing that without shedding too many tears!

Okay, this is tedious, but this is how I ended my editing process. I went through every, single, sentence, word, by, word, and made sure that there was not a single word that was the weak link in the sentence, or a single sentence that let me down. I cut out about 200 words by doing this. I mean, meticulously looking at every single word and every connotation of that word. This helped with not just cutting down, but also make what remained far stronger (I'd substitute words for other words as well, not just culling the lot).

So you can cut, like, 200 words like this. If you're daring!

Then you're still a little over. So this is where you need to touch the plot a bit. So consider changing the order of a paragraph or too, or deciding if that reflection paragraph is necessary, or is that setting the scene paragraph necessary? By showing your work to a few people, you should ask them what part bores them. Ask them to be super honest and to reveal what the most boring part of the text is. Then, get rid of it. Or, at the least, cut it in half and make the remainder less boring. I know it's harsh! And asking for too many opinions is dangerous because you just can't please EVERYONE! Even though you want your piece to do exactly that. So, be wary with asking people for opinions, but at the same time, that can be an extremely valuable tool!

Thanks so much Elyse!! I've yet to receive some drafts I've asked people to read so I might get on with the first suggestion for now :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 19, 2016, 05:34:02 pm
Thanks so much Elyse!! I've yet to receive some drafts I've asked people to read so I might get on with the first suggestion for now :)

Great! Just be aware that you can't lose sight of your own vision for your piece. Scrutinise all of your feedback so that you take on things that enhance your work to your vision, and not just the vision of others. Own it! Good luck! :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: aoife98 on August 12, 2016, 07:11:06 pm
Major works are due a week from now, but my teacher is looking for a final copy on Monday (rip). My draft got a 16/20 with limited feedback and I can't find anyone else to read it. Do you have any ideas for getting a fresh perspective of my own work/general adjustments to improve my mark?  :-\
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: aoife98 on August 12, 2016, 07:15:54 pm
Also does anyone actually know how ext2 is scaled?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: jamonwindeyer on August 12, 2016, 07:48:45 pm
Also does anyone actually know how ext2 is scaled?

I can help there! ;D

Some statistics from 2015:

Average Raw Mark: 80/100
Average Scaled Mark: 73/100

~25% of students get a Band E4 result

The scaling EX2 is interesting because the marks are shifted heavily towards the Band E3/E4 range, given that a reasonably large proportion of students get an E4, the scaling isn't amazing in that range. For example, a 95 in Advanced English actually scales better than a 95 in EX2 (how bizarre).  In the Band E3 range, it swings back in front. For example, a mark of 40-41 (in Advanced,  80-82) range compared in the three:

Advanced Scales 81% to 66%
Extension 1 Scales 80% to 66%
Extension 2 Scales 82% to 74%

So in that range, far superior ;D on the whole EX2 scales reasonably well, better than EX1 and History Extension, but not as good as Maths Extension 1 :)

Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on August 13, 2016, 07:51:03 pm
Major works are due a week from now, but my teacher is looking for a final copy on Monday (rip). My draft got a 16/20 with limited feedback and I can't find anyone else to read it. Do you have any ideas for getting a fresh perspective of my own work/general adjustments to improve my mark?  :-\

One of the main reasons that a student might not get full marks in a creative is because it doesn't make sense in one section. If this is the case, you certainly aren't the first person to struggle with this! By this I mean, you know your work, you know the characters or the analysis or whatever it is, extremely well. But are you conveying that just as clearly? Or are you glossing over important details because you know them but your reader doesn't? So one of the best places to receive feedback is a friend, another English teacher, a sibling, etc. It doesn't need to be an Ext 2 teacher. If you've written a short story, you only need to pass it on to a friend and then have the friend say, "I didn't understand this bit." That's valuable feedback! Because it forces you to go back and work out why that is - is it because you glossed over it? Is it because your language was shallow? Also ask them, were there boring parts, were there difficult parts, etc. :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Jay_ on January 18, 2017, 02:03:37 pm
Hi, I just stumbled onto this thread and it's really helpful so far, thank you for making it. I was wondering if you had any tips for Speeches as a Major Work?


Thank you  :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: jamonwindeyer on January 18, 2017, 04:18:21 pm
Hi, I just stumbled onto this thread and it's really helpful so far, thank you for making it. I was wondering if you had any tips for Speeches as a Major Work?


Thank you  :)

Welcome to the forums Jay_! I'm sure Elyse will be along to give you a hand soon; if you need a hand finding anything around the site in the meantime don't hesitate to ask! ;D
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on January 18, 2017, 05:23:22 pm
Hi, I just stumbled onto this thread and it's really helpful so far, thank you for making it. I was wondering if you had any tips for Speeches as a Major Work?


Thank you  :)

Hey Jay! Although I haven't engaged too closely with anyone who has done a speech for their major in order to give you that insider opinion, I can still give you some thoughts. I wrote a speech for my Advanced and Ext 1 creative and really loved doing it. Be prepared to use your voice a lot - speeches are designed to be delivered and only through delivery will you notice the way the words turn into something more than just print. So, obviously, read it out at your desk and in front of a mirror, y'know, the basics. Then consider reading it to other people. When I read my speech in front of my mirror I imagined an audience of some sort and would imagine their reactions to certain aspects of the speech, but when I delivered it to a small group of pals I realised that some things I didn't expect caused a reaction out of them. That's when I realised that I wanted to strengthen my ending a lot because my imaginary audience was really uplifted, but my real audience was smiling pleasantly.

A friend of mine did a play/script for her major work, and she did something that I higgggghly recommend for speeches and plays. She basically gave slots of the play to her friends in the drama class and asked them to play it out as the words sat. This allowed her to see the dynamic of the characters, but also the way her words translated to theatrical presence. If you have any friends, classmates, family, or even your teachers, who would be willing to read over your speech a few times privately and then read it out as they believe it stands, you'll be able to see the way different voices carry different words and sentences. This is important for the way your marker receives your work!

But, all of this comes down the track. Have a very clear intention for your work: purpose, audience, context, setting, tone. These will be essentially for outlining in your reflection statement down the track, and if you haven't done your viva voce yet, you'll be able to touch on these! :)

I'm excited to hear how you progress, do stay in touch! :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bholenath125 on January 20, 2017, 04:55:39 pm
Hi Elyse,
How do i post my major work draft here?

Im only about halfway there but would most definitely love some feedback!!!!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on January 21, 2017, 08:24:51 pm
Hi Elyse,
How do i post my major work draft here?

Im only about halfway there but would most definitely love some feedback!!!!

Hey there! Perhaps post it here? There's no designated spot for it! If you feel comfortable posting the whole draft, by all means. But if you'd be mainly interested in specific thoughts on character development, setting, wording, etc, feel free to post excerpts :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bholenath125 on January 22, 2017, 02:03:37 pm
Hey elyse
Can i Post my MW here for feedback please?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: jamonwindeyer on January 22, 2017, 02:16:44 pm
Hey elyse
Can i Post my MW here for feedback please?

Elyse linked you to this thread just above, you should post it there! ;D
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on January 28, 2017, 12:05:09 am
Hi :)

I'm writing a short story on refugees (in Australia) for my major work. I'm thinking of experimenting with writing in first person instead of third person, because I want the audience to develop a strong emotional connection with the characters.

I'd like to know what the common pitfalls associated with writing in first person are, as opposed to third. I'm not 100% confident with first person, but I'm willing to try :)

Thanks!!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on January 28, 2017, 04:58:30 pm
Hi :)

I'm writing a short story on refugees (in Australia) for my major work. I'm thinking of experimenting with writing in first person instead of third person, because I want the audience to develop a strong emotional connection with the characters.

I'd like to know what the common pitfalls associated with writing in first person are, as opposed to third. I'm not 100% confident with first person, but I'm willing to try :)

Thanks!!

Hey! If you aren't used to writing in first person, you'll need to be very alert in your writing (or at least, your editing) in searching for the consistency of narration. I wouldn't say that there are too many common mistakes around writing in the first person, except potentially oversharing. As best as you consciously can, consider how much your audience actually needs to know to make the connection, so that you aren't just pouring your heart out and trying to force a connection. Sometimes noticing tiny little pieces of circumstances will trigger a huge emotional reaction, and it doesn't need to be someone actually explaining their life story to get that.

If you aren't comfortable in the first person even after giving it a shot, I recommend trying the third person limited omniscient narrator. That could do what you hope, by giving that little bit extra to an audience, but it remains in the third person that you are comfortable with :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: eyw00400 on January 31, 2017, 05:04:46 pm
Hi! I have a Viva Voce assessment tomorrow and I'm prepared for it but I was wondering if you maybe have some advice for this kind of assessment (if you've done it before that is.)  I've never done this before and I am actually really nervous.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: ssarahj on January 31, 2017, 05:22:16 pm
Hi! I have a Viva Voce assessment tomorrow and I'm prepared for it but I was wondering if you maybe have some advice for this kind of assessment (if you've done it before that is.)  I've never done this before and I am actually really nervous.

Hey! Elyse might pop in here soon but I thought I'd wish you good luck for tomorrow anyway!

After chatting to a friend who did this exact same assessment last year she was adamant that if you are confident & passionate about your work and have lots to say about it you will be totally fine! It's highly likely that your teacher will be actually really interested in your ideas and will want to know more, so give them what they want without waffling on! 😃 Its one of those assessment types that can be really weird especially when there's nothing like it in the earlier years of high school. Your teacher knows this too so they will be trying to make you as comfortable as possible.

Use your nerves to go smash it!!  ;D
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: eyw00400 on January 31, 2017, 05:28:21 pm
Hey! Elyse might pop in here soon but I thought I'd wish you good luck for tomorrow anyway!

After chatting to a friend who did this exact same assessment last year she was adamant that if you are confident & passionate about your work and have lots to say about it you will be totally fine! It's highly likely that your teacher will be actually really interested in your ideas and will want to know more, so give them what they want without waffling on! 😃 Its one of those assessment types that can be really weird especially when there's nothing like it in the earlier years of high school. Your teacher knows this too so they will be trying to make you as comfortable as possible.

Use your nerves to go smash it!!  ;D
Thank you so much!!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 01, 2017, 01:04:39 am
Hi! I have a Viva Voce assessment tomorrow and I'm prepared for it but I was wondering if you maybe have some advice for this kind of assessment (if you've done it before that is.)  I've never done this before and I am actually really nervous.

Hey there! Sorry I didn't get to this a few hours earlier, but just in case you check the forums before school, I'll add to Sarah's comment. Absolutely, know your passion and express that passion in your words! Be articulate, and tick all boxes. So, look into the criteria for the vive voce, or if it isn't supplied, look at the reflection statement criteria. It talks about research into form and concept, among other things. Be prepared to discuss both of these, the research into both! Sometimes we get caught up in the research into concept and forget to talk about form. Your teacher might prompt you to talk about form, but he or she mightn't, so bring it up yourself if possible to ensure you take the discussion that way - particularly if concept and form are interlinked for you at this stage!

If you're reading this after the vive voce, how did you think you went? :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: eyw00400 on February 01, 2017, 08:22:38 pm
Hey there! Sorry I didn't get to this a few hours earlier, but just in case you check the forums before school, I'll add to Sarah's comment. Absolutely, know your passion and express that passion in your words! Be articulate, and tick all boxes. So, look into the criteria for the vive voce, or if it isn't supplied, look at the reflection statement criteria. It talks about research into form and concept, among other things. Be prepared to discuss both of these, the research into both! Sometimes we get caught up in the research into concept and forget to talk about form. Your teacher might prompt you to talk about form, but he or she mightn't, so bring it up yourself if possible to ensure you take the discussion that way - particularly if concept and form are interlinked for you at this stage!

If you're reading this after the vive voce, how did you think you went? :)
Thank you! Ah.. I think I did ok?? Like I answered everything and it was prompted but like I feel pretty iffy about it.
At least it is over!  :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Kategallagher.3 on February 05, 2017, 09:55:07 am
Hey! I have a quick question... which i need answered asap!!!!! I have my viva voce assessment for extension 2 and one of the questions is: "1.   What is the intended form of your major work and discuss thus far what you have learnt about it? To answer this, select and explain one specific resource/source in your journal that has been particularly valuable to you. How do you think this will impact your work?"

I am just wondering how I would go about answering this, my resource is Tim Winton's Breath (not sure if this helps at all). I am stuck on the whole idea of form and what parts of the novel i would pick at to answer this question, eg. is it the characters? the way he establishes setting?

Hope you can help!!  ;D
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 05, 2017, 07:12:29 pm
Hey! I have a quick question... which i need answered asap!!!!! I have my viva voce assessment for extension 2 and one of the questions is: "1.   What is the intended form of your major work and discuss thus far what you have learnt about it? To answer this, select and explain one specific resource/source in your journal that has been particularly valuable to you. How do you think this will impact your work?"

I am just wondering how I would go about answering this, my resource is Tim Winton's Breath (not sure if this helps at all). I am stuck on the whole idea of form and what parts of the novel i would pick at to answer this question, eg. is it the characters? the way he establishes setting?

Hope you can help!!  ;D

Hey Kate! Only you can answer this question because I'm not sure what parts of the novel have inspired your own work. I can prompt you of course, and hopefully this helps! For me, I wrote a short story and one of the resources that assisted me was John Marsden's Everything I Know About Writing, where he talks about the circular structure of a story as showing progress (or lack of) and being very satisfying for a reader. I adapted this form into my own work because I wanted to show the little, yet great, progress of my protagonist from the start to the finish. So this is a brief example of how you could be answering the question (except I linked it more strongly to my concept as well).

Some ideas about what you could gain from the other texts to adapt into your own:
-The way the characters are a vehicle for the plot to develop, rather than just being accessories to the plot.
-The third person limited omniscient narrator
-The order of the plot: establishment of setting, conflict, resolution? Or is it more, conflict, setting, resolution?
-Is it the fluctuation in tone of the piece?

Whatever you do, link it to your concepts of the piece to ground your work. Your aim is to say: This is what I admired in blahblah's piece, I wish to take on this aspect of the form in my own work, and I think that will work well when I link it to the concept of...

Hopefully this gives you a hand :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: diesxel on February 05, 2017, 07:39:06 pm
Hello! This thread is super awesome. I'm doing a series of speeches for my Ext 2 MW.

I was just wondering what is it exactly in an MW that creates a difference between an E3 and an E4 band? It would be great to hear some tips! Thank you  :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bholenath125 on February 09, 2017, 11:38:42 pm
To: Elyse

Hi Elyse

Please find attached my 4u MW. I would love your feedback on it. All the highlighted sections are medical interactions that I need to make sure are authentic enough.



Kind Regards,
Adi
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 10, 2017, 03:20:19 am
Hello! This thread is super awesome. I'm doing a series of speeches for my Ext 2 MW.

I was just wondering what is it exactly in an MW that creates a difference between an E3 and an E4 band? It would be great to hear some tips! Thank you  :)

Hey diesxel! I'm sorry that I somehow skipped over your question. Have a look at this marking criteria.

The main differences between the bands is the fine-tooth combing. The best major works will have a consistency of tense, punctuation, a coherency of structure and plot, etc. Between E3 and E4, the main difference is the adverb. So, skilfully exploring a topic or just exploring it. Also, a HIGHLY unique plot, or a unique plot. To get to an E3, you have to do some serious editing to make sure your work is ticking all of those main boxes. The difference between an E3 and an E4 is different, it's so much about adjusting the structure to reflect the concept, the perfect shaping of meaning, and an overall uniqueness that separates it from the rest. So, the "easiest" climb is from E2 to E3, by perfecting all the grammar and the basics of it all. Making sure it is COHERENT. Then moving into E4 is more difficult, because it usually means shuffling things around at the core of the work, rather than just fluffing up the outsides of it.

From the major work's conception, always be considering originality and meaning. With these in mind (and they may change throughout the process), you are always in line for an E4. It's then just about executing those great thoughts and drive! :)

This is a little article I wrote that might help you out to keep you on track :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on February 10, 2017, 05:30:50 pm
Hi!
My viva voce is coming up and I'm a little nervous haha
The first question will ask about the concept we are exploring in our MW.
Since that's the only question we know we will get for sure, I'm guessing its a pretty important one :)
In the notes I'm preparing, I'm including things like purpose, audience, themes and a brief description of what I'm doing.
What else would I include? Should I include a brief or extensive discussion of form?
Thanks!
p.s I think I sent Elyse a private message about a week ago, to which I've gotten no reply...should I send it again?
:)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bholenath125 on February 10, 2017, 05:43:49 pm
To Elyse

Im so sorry, I just noticed that i attached the wrong draft. Im really sorry.


Im so so so so sorry.


I clicked on the wrong one.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 11, 2017, 06:25:55 am
Hi!
My viva voce is coming up and I'm a little nervous haha
The first question will ask about the concept we are exploring in our MW.
Since that's the only question we know we will get for sure, I'm guessing its a pretty important one :)
In the notes I'm preparing, I'm including things like purpose, audience, themes and a brief description of what I'm doing.
What else would I include? Should I include a brief or extensive discussion of form?
Thanks!
p.s I think I sent Elyse a private message about a week ago, to which I've gotten no reply...should I send it again?
:)

Hello! I apologise for not replying to your PM earlier...I had missed a bunch of personal messages, eeep! But I should be back on track now. I've messaged you back in regards to your PM.

As for the viva voce! Your checklist sounds great, and definitely look into how you can create a direct link between all of those things and concept. Even more, form. Students overlook form in their own research and also in their viva voces. How does your research into form reflect the concept you aim to support?

For me, my major work was in a circular structure, and that was deliberately done to support the concept of the little yet vast change that can occur within someone, even if outwardly it looks the same. So that's an example of form and concept relating.

Typically, your marker will prompt you enough to talk about the different aspects. I think it's probably best to stick to what they ask, but linking it to another aspect of the work if it will richen your discussion. So, if you're asked about your research into form, spend some time talking about the organic research, the deliberate research, and then only when you've given that enough time, talk about how the form you've chosen to take will reflect the concept.

If your marker starts by asking you about concept, you've got a big discussion ahead. So start with the origins of your concept, and talk about how it has developed and no doubt will continue to develop.

So my advice is, take on what the marker says and be sure to directly answer that, but don't be afraid to round off what you're saying in a more wholesome manner by connecting it to other aspects of your work. But be succinct, of course :)

Hopefully this gives you a hand! :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on February 15, 2017, 07:33:19 am
Hi!
When do you recommend getting a start on the reflection statement? I want to start later when I'm absolutely sure of what i'm going to do and well into the creative process. My teacher's emphasising on starting now. I have ideas for it, but want to start a little later. Is this a good idea?

best wishes,
Anna

PS Elyse, I sent you a PM
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 15, 2017, 07:14:57 pm
Hi!
When do you recommend getting a start on the reflection statement? I want to start later when I'm absolutely sure of what i'm going to do and well into the creative process. My teacher's emphasising on starting now. I have ideas for it, but want to start a little later. Is this a good idea?

best wishes,
Anna

PS Elyse, I sent you a PM

Hey Anna,

I didn't start my reflection statement this early at all. We had an assessment called a report, which is basically a mini reflection statement. I only started my reflection statement after that (probably in the next term? Maybe in the upcoming holidays?) because the feedback on the report is what I used to start making my reflection statement officially. I mean, brainstorming ideas is important now but most people aren't half way through their major work yet, so I can't see the benefit in starting officially writing the reflection statement when you only have half a work to reflect on. Have you got the report assessment coming up?

I will get to your PM shortly - just going to Uni now and then I'll be back online :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 16, 2017, 06:50:51 am
To: Elyse

Hi Elyse

Please find attached my 4u MW. I would love your feedback on it. All the highlighted sections are medical interactions that I need to make sure are authentic enough.



Kind Regards,
Adi

Hi Adi,

I'm commenting in little chunks here rather than copying and pasting the entire thing over when there's only certain things I wish to comment on.

Firstly, the first highlighted section. I don't imagine that in the state of flurry that Guy is in, a receptionist would insist on, "Mr...." to get him to say his surname. I haven't researched this like you might have, but it just doesn't seem to me to be something a receptionist would say in this situation. Also, when he reveals he is the guardian, she instantly knows the patient's whereabouts. I imagine that she'd look down at her computer, or her sheet, or something like that, to get the information. This does break up the dialogue from being back and fourth, but I think it works well.

My overall thoughts on the first part: it's really written crisply. I think you've taken a lot of consideration about the way you write and haven't overdone it at all, it's never verbose, and the crisp writing style suits the crisp scene of a hospital. Really well written!

Suggestions for part two:

-This is NOT something I advise if you think in any way you'd be worse off having listened to it, or read it, but I think if you scrounge around the internet you'd be able to find people's experiences of suicide hotlines and this might add to the authenticity of it all. I really have never considered how they might answer the phone, so I'm not sure at all about how close you are to authenticity, but reading widely online (forums like reddit, perhaps?) might give you some good ideas. But, if you think that this will compromise your own health in any way: do not.

By the time I get to page 12, I'm a little confused. Simply because I read the prologue carefully, and the jolting is confusing me. I'm just not sure that moving between the stages so frequently is serving your purpose well, I think that with less flicks between, it would be easier to follow and still very meaningful. I start to lose my empathy for both Guy and Rami in their respective situations because I'm just trying to keep up. In saying this, there have been some very good passages that describe the relationship between Rami and Guy in again, a very crisp way. Your writing style is a pleasure to read. I also enjoy that, despite the flicking between them, there is the medical title for each section, often filled with a non-medical situation. That keeps it in my mind that something sinister is playing out.

I love the inner conversation Guy has with himself, especially because it takes place in a prom. That's a really special scene.

The last thing I will comment on is the yellow part at the end. I see why the nurse needed to speak so urgently, but I also wonder if this could have waited until Rami officially died? I don't know if it's a reality that a nurse would speak about donating organs when Rami lives for another 40 minutes? Maybe I'm just feeling empathic for Guy, it's a bit of a raw deal. It just seems like a lot is thrown at Guy at once, which questions the actuality of the situation, but it's also a lot for me as a reader, I couldn't grasp the entire situation because I was so quickly moving through the dialogue, I think I have more emotions to offer than what was prompted of me.

In all, this is a really special piece. The complexity of plot and concept is great, and I think you use the subheadings well. I still think I was a bit confused earlier in the story, flicking between stages. I like Rami's attitude and sass, I think she's a great character. Which makes her death more impactful. I do think, also, that I want to know more about the accident. Even if it's just that she did a gymnastics flip wrong in PE, or something like that, because a fall just leaves me thinking "I'm going to find out the real cause soon" and then I don't?

You evoked emotion in me as a reader, which is always important. And, it's a credit to you as an author! Hopefully my thoughts can help you out a bit, even though they shouldn't be taken all on board as gospel words, because I'm just one of the many readers of your work over the process of E2. Good luck!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on February 16, 2017, 06:59:54 am
Hey Anna,

I didn't start my reflection statement this early at all. We had an assessment called a report, which is basically a mini reflection statement. I only started my reflection statement after that (probably in the next term? Maybe in the upcoming holidays?) because the feedback on the report is what I used to start making my reflection statement officially. I mean, brainstorming ideas is important now but most people aren't half way through their major work yet, so I can't see the benefit in starting officially writing the reflection statement when you only have half a work to reflect on. Have you got the report assessment coming up?

I will get to your PM shortly - just going to Uni now and then I'll be back online :)


thanks Elyse!
Have you read my PM (so so so sorry to push)
my viva voce is tomorrow and I'm really nervous
any general tips?
thank you!!!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 16, 2017, 07:06:26 am

thanks Elyse!
Have you read my PM (so so so sorry to push)
my viva voce is tomorrow and I'm really nervous
any general tips?
thank you!!!

Just responded, you'll do magnificently! I know it. :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bholenath125 on February 19, 2017, 06:13:44 pm
Hi Elyse,

As you've already read my story. Would you be able to provide me with some tips as to how to create a better atmosphere of seattle in My story. Also, how do i improve the characterisation of Guy at the beginning.??


Thanks,
Adi
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 19, 2017, 08:33:46 pm
Hi Elyse,

As you've already read my story. Would you be able to provide me with some tips as to how to create a better atmosphere of seattle in My story. Also, how do i improve the characterisation of Guy at the beginning.??


Thanks,
Adi

Hey Adi, where are you hoping to improve the atmosphere of Seattle in your story? To me, it being in Seattle isn't of great significance, I only considered it at the start when the hospital was identified. Are you hoping to tie in a cultural link or just to better set the scene? And where do you imagine this? And what are your hopes for improving Guy's characterisation? Are you looking to give him some physical details or are you trying to change the way he's perceived based on the way I perceived him?

Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bholenath125 on February 19, 2017, 08:38:49 pm
The thing is, his failed transformation is not as explicit as I would like him to be and that is because his initial characterisation isn't done well enough. I was thinking Maybe i tie in his depression with the dot com bubble in seattle which ultimately lead to him losing his job and company and now he is an actuary.

I'm not sure. Still working it out. But my teachers have told me I'm underselling the atmosphere of Seattle which is also a very common feedback response from the marking centre and like any other person doing their HSC i wanna do the best I can. So i was just wondering if you could give me some tips as to how to improve the characterisation of a place e.g. seattle and how to clearly show that Guy is sad, stoic and alone.


Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 19, 2017, 08:55:15 pm
The thing is, his failed transformation is not as explicit as I would like him to be and that is because his initial characterisation isn't done well enough. I was thinking Maybe i tie in his depression with the dot com bubble in seattle which ultimately lead to him losing his job and company and now he is an actuary.

I'm not sure. Still working it out. But my teachers have told me I'm underselling the atmosphere of Seattle which is also a very common feedback response from the marking centre and like any other person doing their HSC i wanna do the best I can. So i was just wondering if you could give me some tips as to how to improve the characterisation of a place e.g. seattle and how to clearly show that Guy is sad, stoic and alone.

I think perhaps you could work on his physical appearance mirroring his state a little more. Unshaven, perhaps. Is he wearing a cotton shirt or a button up shirt that's untucked at one side with the tie loose? Is his hair scruffy? Maybe also the way he walks, even when he's panicked and running into the hospital, he's still dragging his feet, struggling to put one in front of the other? What do you think about using appearance as a segway?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bholenath125 on February 19, 2017, 10:14:38 pm
YES!!!
I want to do that. But descriptive appearance as such doesn't come to me naturally so I was hoping you could refer me to some texts that I could use as points of inspiration??
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 19, 2017, 10:22:48 pm
YES!!!
I want to do that. But descriptive appearance as such doesn't come to me naturally so I was hoping you could refer me to some texts that I could use as points of inspiration??

I wish there was a text that jumps to mind but I can hardly think of a text where I've seen a character like this. When I looked on Goodreads, these are the texts that are suggested around depression, so you're likely to find some helpful descriptions in there. Otherwise, I seem to be thinking of texts from around the industrial revolution...I don't know why, but this very depressed male figure rings in to me from the class experience in England at the revolution (or there abouts). Try, Charles Dickens Great Expectations, or other characters around this period. Often the male characters in texts around this time (in my experience of reading) have a shabby stoic presence to them.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bholenath125 on February 19, 2017, 10:26:08 pm
Thanks a tonne Elyse,

And i was wondering would it be a good idea to make the narratorial voice something like this:


SO you know how in the prologue there's the medical terms. When the chapter starts, do you think the narrator can go like The textbook would call this stage the rejection of transplant post-treatment, I like to call it down shit creek? Something along those lines...because my teacher suggested it and i do like the idea however I also do find it to be a little cliche and mainstream??
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on March 06, 2017, 08:09:28 am
Thanks a tonne Elyse,

And i was wondering would it be a good idea to make the narratorial voice something like this:


SO you know how in the prologue there's the medical terms. When the chapter starts, do you think the narrator can go like The textbook would call this stage the rejection of transplant post-treatment, I like to call it down shit creek? Something along those lines...because my teacher suggested it and i do like the idea however I also do find it to be a little cliche and mainstream??

Hi, I hope this isn't too late. I think that although I see your perspective on it being mainstream, I think it also brings a nice realness, brinkness, to the character. It just sounds very...real, human, colloquial, and I think that can help with making the character's experience draw more empathy.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Mary_a on March 06, 2017, 01:32:11 pm
Hi,

I started the Extension 2 course last year (term 4), I was just wondering if you had any tips on writing a successful, well-received report? I have completed ample amounts of research and am 3000 words though my critical analysis (although I will need to carefully rewrite and develop my thesis a lot more than it is... so that is definitely a first draft), I was just going you had some advice on the structure of a report and what you recommend putting into this assessment.

Thank you so much,

Mary x
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on March 07, 2017, 03:12:28 am
Hi,

I started the Extension 2 course last year (term 4), I was just wondering if you had any tips on writing a successful, well-received report? I have completed ample amounts of research and am 3000 words though my critical analysis (although I will need to carefully rewrite and develop my thesis a lot more than it is... so that is definitely a first draft), I was just going you had some advice on the structure of a report and what you recommend putting into this assessment.

Thank you so much,

Mary x
Hey Mary! Glad to have a fellow Ext2er around!

I have a few suggestions for this, some you may have already undertaken:
-Have a look at the marking guidelines for the Reflection Statement. You can see that here. The report is essentially a mini reflection statement in a lot of ways, the report is a way of preparing you for the reflection statement that's yet to come. See it as a polished draft, if you will! So looking at the guidelines for the reflection statement's marking will be useful for understanding the standard they expect.
-Also, have a look at the requirements of the reflection statement as this has a little checklist in there. It shouldn't really raise anything new, but I found it comforting to look at when I created my report so that I knew I had covered everything.
-If you're not sure about the language you're using, the structure...the ideas even, have a look at the State Library's collection of exemplar Reflection Statements here. Admittedly, when I first looked at these I felt like anything I had produced was ridiculously inadequate. Know that there are many ways of expressing things, but you might find some inspiration about what marker's respond well to by checking this out!
-Remember to recognise that the process of research and writing is flawed. You won't seem disorganised if you admit to changing your concept, or anything like that. The raw process of researching and writing is calculated, organic, stressful, creative, and disciplined all at once. You don't just have to draw on organised research, you can admit to organic evolution of your concepts if that is appropriate to your work.
-Don't be afraid to quote sections of your work to show exactly where your ideas have manifested in your major work!

Good luck...drop back any time :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Mary_a on March 08, 2017, 03:43:45 pm
Hey Mary! Glad to have a fellow Ext2er around!

I have a few suggestions for this, some you may have already undertaken:
-Have a look at the marking guidelines for the Reflection Statement. You can see that here. The report is essentially a mini reflection statement in a lot of ways, the report is a way of preparing you for the reflection statement that's yet to come. See it as a polished draft, if you will! So looking at the guidelines for the reflection statement's marking will be useful for understanding the standard they expect.
-Also, have a look at the requirements of the reflection statement as this has a little checklist in there. It shouldn't really raise anything new, but I found it comforting to look at when I created my report so that I knew I had covered everything.
-If you're not sure about the language you're using, the structure...the ideas even, have a look at the State Library's collection of exemplar Reflection Statements here. Admittedly, when I first looked at these I felt like anything I had produced was ridiculously inadequate. Know that there are many ways of expressing things, but you might find some inspiration about what marker's respond well to by checking this out!
-Remember to recognise that the process of research and writing is flawed. You won't seem disorganised if you admit to changing your concept, or anything like that. The raw process of researching and writing is calculated, organic, stressful, creative, and disciplined all at once. You don't just have to draw on organised research, you can admit to organic evolution of your concepts if that is appropriate to your work.
-Don't be afraid to quote sections of your work to show exactly where your ideas have manifested in your major work!

Good luck...drop back any time :)

Hi Elyse,

Thank you so much, I've had a look at the reflection statements and the criteria and it already makes so much more sense! I really appreciate your help :)

Mary

ps. Yes, it's nice to find fellow ext2ers there aren't many!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on March 08, 2017, 07:13:11 pm
Hi Elyse,

Thank you so much, I've had a look at the reflection statements and the criteria and it already makes so much more sense! I really appreciate your help :)

Mary

ps. Yes, it's nice to find fellow ext2ers there aren't many!

Great, no worries! I'm glad it's helped. Ext 2 involves a loooot of reading. I printed out those documents and put them in my Journal for reference later.

All the best! :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on March 10, 2017, 05:36:46 pm
hi!
i am to write a section in my major work in the perspective of a sort of cynic/pessimistic/work-orientated man
but i'm quite used to writing in idyllic/very flowery perspectives.
but i really want there to be a tonal shift in my writing because its in a different perspective
he's a bureaucrat who is really tough and his life revolves around his work
this is what I've written so far

Government Official

“Pick. Up. After. Yourselves!” I had to yell everyday. I worked with animals. The rancid odour of off chicken curry mixed with possibly fermenting milk was enough to make me gag. I couldn’t even open the microwave anymore—the grimy specks always stared at me. I seized my coffee and darted out. Dirty looks were passed my way. I didn’t care. I shoved past the employees and glanced at the clock—on time. THUD. I slam the door behind me, and exhale sharply. With 4 swift strides I’m behind my mahogany desk and sat on leather. Six dark folders are perched on the edge of the table, awaiting my approval. I pump out the sanitizer and furiously rub my hands. With my elbows rested on the desktop, I run both hands through my hair. I open the top folder, slowly slide out the contents and read the header:

Application for an Offshore Humanitarian visa[/b]
Refugee and Humanitarian (Class XB) visa

I skim over the form, locating the small asterisks beside some of the queries, noting the minor issues in my lined book. The next few folders—case file #43657 and #43892 were the same forms. A weak knock came from the door—“Come in”.
“Hi Sir, just reminding you that John wanted Biyu Lin’s file fixed by 10:00 to send off to biological screening.” I purse my lips and furrow my brows –trying to place the name.
“Oh, case #35423” the lady smiled.
“Right—I know…thanks.” I mumble, looking down.
“I’m early today, Mr. Perkins!” The same voice perked.
I looked up, then down again, shaking my head. “There is no such thing as early; you’re either on time or late.” I scoff, imagining the defeated look on her face. 
“Oh, by the way,” I started “read this out loud to the team in the cubicles.” I hand her a note and she scurries off.

*

A muffled commotion caused me to sit up straight. I turned the files over and reached for a paperweight. As I lifted myself off my chair, the sounds became clearer. Through my closed door came raised voices, voices that rose above the sacred silence of the office. I took a deep breath—and opened the door in one swing. I couldn’t believe it. Animals in black and white, all at each other’s throats like savage dogs fighting for dominance. The shouting was almost tangible, strangling the life from the room. From whatever stray words I could pick up on, they were bitter, full of resentment…”You’ve been here 6 months!”
“You’re the office idiot!”
“You can’t even prin—“
“SHUT UP!” The words stumbled out of me before I even thought about it. Silence. It was like the room turned off. It was deafening.
“Is this about the letter from head office?” I raised my voice again. Eyes widened and bodies tensed. “I take that as a yes” I muttered, rolling my eyes.
“If none of you clowns can sort it out, I’ll do it.” I said, matter-of-factly. I ambled to my room in victory. I knew this would happen. It was glorious. “Everyone back to work…I don’t want to hear a sound.” my words reminded me of something I say on a regular basis to my nieces.

I send an email to the law firm:

Mr. Jacobs,

After careful consideration of the circumstances, it has been decided that I will be accompanying your lawyer to Nauru Regional Processing Centre on 01/02/17.
Please send any remaining information regarding the inmate and any details pertaining to the issue to this email address.

Yours sincerely,

Mr. Perkins
(Manager)


I fist-pump, thinking of the future references and job opportunities that could arise as a result of this trip. This inmate fight is the best thing that could ever happen to me.

**

The tall barbed wire fence towered over me as I stepped through a gap into the grounds of the establishment. I looked around—I’m in uncharted territory. Red dust covered my Rockports as I stepped onto the bare land and grassy patches. I finally reached the doors with three guards placed like bowling pins in front of it. I flashed my ID and enter the institution. 
   
Conversing with the lawyer and guard, I tried keeping my gaze off the filthy walls and blackened floor. I repeated to myself: “get in and get out”. I shuddered at the rows and rows of bunk beds we passed. I thought, “no wonder a fight broke out…there’s no privacy…no where to hide…” I scanned the inmates, all shuffling from one end of the penitentiary to the other. Most looked like walking corpses. I denied myself any emotional attachment to them. “They’re human”, I thought…”just like me”. I realised there’s no difference between us. Just that my family and myself were smarter with our money and migration. They made mistakes. I can’t waste time feeling bad for them—I’ve a job to get done.


my mentor pointed out to me that my style of writing (short sentences, sentence structure) is similar for all 4 perspectives, so  how do you think I could improve that?

thanks!!!!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Mary_a on March 14, 2017, 08:14:03 am
Hi Elyse,

I'm so sorry to bother you again about the report. I honestly am completely overthinking this and I'm just not sure what to do. Do you perhaps have any examples I could possibly look at, or a structure you can suggest?

Thank you so much,

Mary x
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Mary_a on March 14, 2017, 02:40:35 pm
Hi Elyse,

I'm so sorry to bother you again about the report. I honestly am completely overthinking this and I'm just not sure what to do. Do you perhaps have any examples I could possibly look at, or a structure you can suggest?

Thank you so much,

Mary x

Hi Elyse,

I sat down today and rewrote my entire report (my teacher didn't really like it, and I can completely understand why having completed this new report).

Is it possible that I can send you my report to have a look at?

I'm currently coming second in the course but I really want to hit that top rank, or at least ensure I get above 90% in this assessment (this is actually my goal for every assessment in every subject and so far I've been hitting that goal)!

Thank you for everything and the work that you guys put in here at AtarNotes,

Mary x
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Mary_a on March 14, 2017, 08:43:45 pm
Hi Elyse,

I understand if I am way out of line in asking you to have a look at my Report, but I am really nervous that this just isn't in the top band. The teacher which usually handles the extension 2 course has gone on Year 7 camp and there are only a few of us actually taking Extension 2 in our cohort.

I would really, really appreciate it if you could have a look at my report and give me some feedback on how to get that 14-15/15?

Thank you so, so much!

Mary x


My major work examines Shakespeare’s characters Cleopatra from Antony and Cleopatra and Cordelia from King Lear through the lens of Romantic individuals Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge. I arrived at this area of study through my readings of Joseph Ortiz’s Shakespeare and The Culture of Romanticism and Jonathan Bate’s The Romantics on Shakespeare, this allowed me to create an informed understanding of what Romantic critique consisted of and how it was applied to Shakespeare’s work. The focus on Shakespeare’s female characters has been quite neglected in history, however the new wave of feminism in the 21st century has brought Shakespeare’s female characters back to the forefront, but with a focus only on contemporary and 20th century critique. Within Romantic critique there was a concentration on Shakespeare’s women which was quite revolutionary for the era and it is imperative that this focus is revived in contemporary society. Focusing on Romantic criticism offers something rich in the understanding of Shakespeare’s characters, the era’s evaluations have become quite forgotten and concentrating on this lens provides a view that informs character criticisms. The examination of the development of Romantic criticisms through different periods in the era provides various informed scopes for the evaluation of the characters. This analysis, using Romantic precepts attempts to grant validity to the female experience and representation of human characters. The journal the Shakespeare Quarterly is a peer reviewed journal, renowned for its publication of essays at the forefront of Shakespearean studies. Its concentration on scholarly essays investigating new perspectives on Shakespeare’s work provides an audience for my major work, which evaluates his characters using the Romantic lens.

My initial research focussed upon the form of character criticism that the Romantics delighted in. Reading essays upon Romantic criticism such as George Mosse’s The Culture of Western Europe and Arthur Kirch’s Shakespeare’s Humanism reaffirmed a clear understanding of why the Romantics revered Shakespeare, highlighting that the Romantics centred their attention upon the internal condition of individuals and the analysis of the individual’s emotions. Prior to commencing my major work, I had an understanding of Romantic philosophies and precepts, however my research made me aware of its potential relevance and application to the critique of literature. My interest in Romantic critique grew as I researched essays written in the Romantic era, such as John Keats’ The Poetical Character and Samuel Johnson’s Dedication to Shakespeare which directly interacts with Shakespeare’s characters and Romantic perspectives upon them, Johnson remarking that “Shakespeare’s excellence was not the fiction of a tale, but the representation of life; and his reputation is therefore safe till human nature shall be changed.” I also came across peer reviews of Romantic essays written by Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge, such as Karen Gervitz’s Elizabeth Inchbald; Shakespeare Criticism, Francesca Saggini’s The Art of Fine Drama: Inchbald’s Remarks for The British Theatre and the Aesthetic Experience of the Late Eighteenth Century Theatre-Goer, Jonathan Bate’s William Hazlitt “On Siddons, Kemble and Kean” and James Engell’s Coleridge, Johnson and Shakespeare. This piqued my interest into the development of Romantic criticism on Shakespeare, Inchbald providing a bridge between Neoclassic Criticism and Romantic understanding, Hazlitt capturing Humanist and Romantic perspectives, whilst Coleridge forming the epitome of 19th century Romantic critique. This interest caused me to explore their own essays in order to garner knowledge on their precepts and preoccupations of Shakespeare’s characters. Elizabeth Inchbald’s remarks on Shakespeare’s characters in The British Theatre provided an understanding of her observations which grant validity to the female experience within the Romantic era. Hazlitt’s Characters of Shakespeare’s Plays also focussed upon Shakespeare’s female characters as capturing women with internal machinations. Coleridge’s criticism within his letter On Shakespeare’s Characters prefigured psycho-analytical readings of literature. This research shaped my major work, creating a discussion of Shakespeare’s characters through the development of Inchbald, Hazlitt and Coleridge’s critique-which reflects different periods of Romanticism.

Having attained this foundational understanding I began searching for potential characters in Shakespeare’s texts. Through my readings of Inchbald, Hazlitt and Coleridge I discovered their fascination with Cleopatra from Antony and Cleopatra. Each individual had a unique lens upon Cleopatra as they represented the different periods within Romanticism. In Inchbald’s Preface to Antony and Cleopatra she focuses upon Cleopatra’s emotion and insecurities as rendering her with human qualities-a culmination of Neo-classist and Romantic critique. Hazlitt’s notion of Cleopatra’s character revolving around the dichotomy of the political, powerful queen and yet the seductive woman driven by emotion transcends Inchbald’s evaluations to provide Humanist and Romantic critique. Coleridge's note which was made for a lecture in 1818 on Antony and Cleopatra revealed his opinion that “perhaps of Shakespeare’s plays, the most wonderful is Antony and Cleopatra.” Coleridge’s evaluation of Cleopatra represents the height of Romantic critique remarking that “the sense of criminality in her passion” reveals the Romantic preoccupation that “depth and energy” within emotion renders an authentic human experience. The development of criticism on Cleopatra within the Romantic era significantly shaped my major work as it allowed me to analyse Cleopatra through a development of Romantic readings and the differing perspectives on the representation of her humanity. This formed a structure of my analysis, to focus on Cleopatra in light of each individual and create a sustained Romantic evaluation.

My knowledge of Hermione from The Winter’s Tale greatly assisted in my choice to contrast Cleopatra with Hermione, still using the Romantic individual’s criticisms. Hermione and Cleopatra were both queens and had similar roles within their respective monarchs, however there was a stark contrast in personality, Hermione being quite reserved and Cleopatra a vivacious, vibrant character. Phyllis Rackin’s Shakespeare and Women and Juliet Dusinberre’s Shakespeare and The Nature of Women provided significant insight into the analysis of Hermione. However, despite my extensive research, I came to a realisation that Hermione did not represent a character which embodied Romantic fascination and that Romanticism instead focused on the character of Cordelia form King Lear. This realisation led to a change of route in my major work as I chose a different character in order to render an authentic Romantic reading of Shakespeare’s female characters. Unfortunately, this decision was made very late in the term and impacted upon my ability to extensively research Cordelia. I am aware, however, that King Lear was an incredibly popular play and has sustained its popularity into the 21st century. My knowledge that the Romantics revered Cordelia was supported by the alteration of King Lear’s ending in the 19th century, the Romantics deciding that Cordelia should not die because they believed such a wonderful and moral character did not deserve that ending. Therefore, the direction of my major work changed, however this ensures that it does reflect Romantic evaluations and criticisms of Shakespeare’s characters in order to create an authentic major work.

I chose to write a critical response as the form of my major work because this was the most effective instrument for the analysis which I desired to undertake. Despite having initially explored writing essays in the style of Elizabeth Inchbald, my final decision to utilise a traditional, objective, formal tone was determined by the strongly academic context of my response, particularly in my application of Romantic criticism. I was influenced in my decision of this structure by Joseph Addison’s On the Essay Form and Richard Amacher’s The Essay, which highlighted that a complex subject matter mandated an academic approach. Furthermore, because the intended purpose of my response was investigative, I chose to write in third person. As my investigation progressed, I decided to structure my essay into sections to encapsulate the various criticisms of the Romantic individuals and their representations of the different periods of Romanticism for each female character. This structure not only provides different analyses per section of the humanity in each character but also allows a clear progression of Romantic critique and ideas.

My intended purpose, that is, the examination of Shakespeare’s female characters Cleopatra and Cordelia through the lens of Romantic critique from the individuals of Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge has been clearly shaped by the aforementioned area of investigation in Romantic criticisms of literature, particularly Shakespeare’s work. Autonomous investigation has played an integral role in the major work progress and has furthered my conceptual development in numerous areas as well as inspiring the form and nature of my essay.

Thank you so much, Mary x
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on March 15, 2017, 06:52:27 am
hi!
i am to write a section in my major work in the perspective of a sort of cynic/pessimistic/work-orientated man
but i'm quite used to writing in idyllic/very flowery perspectives.
but i really want there to be a tonal shift in my writing because its in a different perspective
he's a bureaucrat who is really tough and his life revolves around his work
this is what I've written so far
my mentor pointed out to me that my style of writing (short sentences, sentence structure) is similar for all 4 perspectives, so  how do you think I could improve that?

thanks!!!!

Hey bananna, apologies for the delay! Before talking about the structure, I just want to give you three thoughts...
I think you've got American spelling on for sanitizer when you likely mean sanitiser. No doubt this would come clear in the editing process anyway! Also, "of off chicken" just reads a little funny to me although it isn't incorrect, but for some reason I just fixated on it for too long. It's not incorrect, but "of off" does sound odd. And lastly, is the inmate fight the best thing that could ever happen to "me" or to "my career." I don't know where the story is going, but this could be an important distinction to make - is it important to the man personally, or just for the purpose of his career?

I think you've captured the voice really well! I think he sound stern but still human and not robotic. Sentence structure can be powerful in creating voices - but if you have to change any persona's sentence structure to no longer be short, it wouldn't be this character's. The short sentence structure contributes to the sternness of this man, which you need! Is it possible that you could work on varying the other persona's sentences, and leave this one?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on March 15, 2017, 07:47:37 am
Hey bananna, apologies for the delay! Before talking about the structure, I just want to give you three thoughts...
I think you've got American spelling on for sanitizer when you likely mean sanitiser. No doubt this would come clear in the editing process anyway! Also, "of off chicken" just reads a little funny to me although it isn't incorrect, but for some reason I just fixated on it for too long. It's not incorrect, but "of off" does sound odd. And lastly, is the inmate fight the best thing that could ever happen to "me" or to "my career." I don't know where the story is going, but this could be an important distinction to make - is it important to the man personally, or just for the purpose of his career?

I think you've captured the voice really well! I think he sound stern but still human and not robotic. Sentence structure can be powerful in creating voices - but if you have to change any persona's sentence structure to no longer be short, it wouldn't be this character's. The short sentence structure contributes to the sternness of this man, which you need! Is it possible that you could work on varying the other persona's sentences, and leave this one?

thank you! yes I've made note of little structure/expression issues.
but, I think making those changes could work to my benefit, so thank you!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: josephinepike on March 15, 2017, 11:07:29 am
Hi Elyse,

I didn't even realise you did Extension 2!

I have just changed my form last minute! I have changed from a short film to a speech as per a push and shove from my teachers. My concept itself is down syndrome, but more specifically down syndrome, but I was wondering a few things:

- How can I develop my concept to make it more succint?
- Where is the best place to look to start finding literary theory and research, as there is not much literature relevant to what we're studying I believe.
- Can you also explain what literary theory is and where I can find it in relation to disability/down syndrome?

Thanks so much and kind regards,
Josephine.  :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on March 16, 2017, 08:56:35 am
Hi Elyse,

I didn't even realise you did Extension 2!

I have just changed my form last minute! I have changed from a short film to a speech as per a push and shove from my teachers. My concept itself is down syndrome, but more specifically down syndrome, but I was wondering a few things:

- How can I develop my concept to make it more succint?
- Where is the best place to look to start finding literary theory and research, as there is not much literature relevant to what we're studying I believe.
- Can you also explain what literary theory is and where I can find it in relation to disability/down syndrome?

Thanks so much and kind regards,
Josephine.  :)

Hey Josephine!
I've got a few texts I want to suggest for you to browse! There's one in particular that my own English teacher raved about but never read, so I've just sent her a Facebook message to see if she can remember it.

But for now, have a look at this on the Conversation. It is an EXCELLENT place to start when looking at down syndrome in literature, and it suggests some texts as well. This article is quite academic but the contents page will tell you exactly where you need to go to find out great information!

In relation to what is literary theory - I always see it as the lens through which we critically perceive literature. So, you could look at literature through a feminist theory, a marxist theory, postcolonial theory...etc. This guide here gives a good outline on a few. I hope you don't mind that I'm linking you all over the place! I just want to give you the option for further reading. You could approach your text through the literary theory of structuralist theory. But, most E2 students won't be looking at literary theory in the composition of their texts because usually it's used for analysing/perceiving, rather than creating. Is it something your teacher has advised?

Here's some reviews on a book that might be helpful so you can decide if it's worth getting your hands on. I don't think this is particularly helpful, but Schmoop does a little intro to disability theory in literature. I think most of it is a bit common sense rather than articulate, but it's a good place to start.

Well..despite my initial understanding, it turns out disability literary theory is a growing field! So you could find some things on the net if you scoop around, but hopefully these get you started :)

Edit: my teacher got back to me (but posting on my Facebook wall instead of sending me a message back...I don't know why) but the text is called The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nightime by Mark Haddin. She recommended it to me about 4 years ago because I wanted to write a short story about autism, but then I changed my mind. But she said it's a really incredible text nonetheless, so might be worth a look!

Edit again: Now she's sent me a PDF link! So the text is there. Reading online I can see it's been translated into over 20 languages, must be good! :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on March 16, 2017, 10:19:14 pm
Hi Elyse,

I understand if I am way out of line in asking you to have a look at my Report, but I am really nervous that this just isn't in the top band. The teacher which usually handles the extension 2 course has gone on Year 7 camp and there are only a few of us actually taking Extension 2 in our cohort.

I would really, really appreciate it if you could have a look at my report and give me some feedback on how to get that 14-15/15?

Thank you so much, Mary x

Hey Mary!

I perhaps don't need to, but I want to preface this by saying I was the only person in my cohort who did Ext2, I was a class of one person, so it's possible that my experience of the course is different to other peoples. Because I only have my own work to bounce off, I hope I'm giving the right advice, seeing as it's not like I could look at my peers to see their approach! But as is the case with all feed back, you decide what you want to take on :)
Spoiler
My major work examines Shakespeare’s characters Cleopatra from Antony and Cleopatra and Cordelia from King Lear through the lens of Romantic individuals Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge. The introduction of each character is unclear, maybe it's just because of the way it's reformatted here. Put the text's names in Italics or underlined so that we can tell apart the characters and their texts, just because it seems to be a bit jumbled and we can't have that happen so early on :) I arrived at this area of study through my readings of Joseph Ortiz’s Shakespeare and The Culture of Romanticism and Jonathan Bate’s The Romantics on Shakespeare, this allowed me to This language here makes sense, but it's not expressed in a sophisticated manner. Perhaps if you start a new sentence here, you can use nominalisation to your advantage. create an informed understanding of what Romantic critique consisted of and how it was applied to Shakespeare’s work. The focus on Shakespeare’s female characters has been quite neglected in history in literary history? critical history? Be specific here., however the new wave of feminism in the 21st century has brought Shakespeare’s female characters back to this implies that they were once at the forefront - were they? the forefront, but with a focus only on contemporary and 20th century critique. Within Romantic critique there was a concentration on Shakespeare’s women which was quite revolutionary for the era and it is imperative that this focus is revived in contemporary society I know it's small, but we've used "was" twice in this sentence. No huge deal, but being E2, expression is everything. I hope you don't think I'm being too picky, it's always easier to find faults in other people's work than your own! . Focusing on Romantic criticism offers something rich in the understanding of Shakespeare’s characters, the era’s evaluations have become quite forgotten and concentrating on this lens provides a view that informs character criticisms. The examination of the development of Romantic criticisms through different periods in the era provides various informed scopes for the evaluation of the characters. This analysis, using Romantic precepts attempts to grant validity to the female experience and representation of human characters. The journal the Shakespeare Quarterly is a peer reviewed journal, renowned for its publication of essays at the forefront of Shakespearean studies. Its concentration on scholarly essays investigating new perspectives on Shakespeare’s work provides an audience for my major work, which evaluates his characters using the Romantic lens.

My initial research focussed focused* upon the form of character criticism that the Romantics delighted in. Reading essays upon Romantic criticism such as George Mosse’s The Culture of Western Europe and Arthur Kirch’s Shakespeare’s Humanism reaffirmed a clear understanding of why the Romantics revered Shakespeare, highlighting that the Romantics centred their attention upon the internal condition of individuals and the analysis of the individual’s emotions. Prior to commencing my major work, I had an understanding of Romantic philosophies and precepts, however my research made me aware of its potential relevance and application to the critique of literature. My interest in Romantic critique grew as I researched essays written in the Romantic era, such as John Keats’ The Poetical Character and Samuel Johnson’s Dedication to Shakespeare which directly interacts with Shakespeare’s characters and Romantic perspectives upon them, Johnson remarking that “Shakespeare’s excellence was not the fiction of a tale, but the representation of life; and his reputation is therefore safe till human nature shall be changed.” I also came across peer reviews of Romantic essays written by Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge, such as Karen Gervitz’s Elizabeth Inchbald; Shakespeare Criticism, Francesca Saggini’s The Art of Fine Drama: Inchbald’s Remarks for The British Theatre and the Aesthetic Experience of the Late Eighteenth Century Theatre-Goer, Jonathan Bate’s William Hazlitt “On Siddons, Kemble and Kean” and James Engell’s Coleridge, Johnson and Shakespeare. This piqued my interest into the development of Romantic criticism on Shakespeare, Inchbald providing a bridge between Neoclassic Criticism and Romantic understanding, Hazlitt capturing Humanist and Romantic perspectives, whilst Coleridge forming the epitome of 19th century Romantic critique. This interest caused me to explore their own essays in order to garner knowledge on their precepts and preoccupations of Shakespeare’s characters. Elizabeth Inchbald’s remarks on Shakespeare’s characters in The British Theatre provided an understanding of her observations which grant validity to the female experience within the Romantic era. Hazlitt’s Characters of Shakespeare’s Plays also focussed upon Shakespeare’s female characters as capturing women with internal machinations. Coleridge’s criticism within his letter On Shakespeare’s Characters prefigured psycho-analytical readings of literature. This research shaped my major work, creating a discussion of Shakespeare’s characters through the development of Inchbald, Hazlitt and Coleridge’s critique-which reflects different periods of Romanticism. Until this last sentence, you've just listed research without actually making the strong connections. I think we need to revise the way you've approached this. Similar to an essay, you make a point and then you link. Here, you need to make a point of your research but then link it as well to the way your major work is right now. Directly link the exact point your major work is up to now, to the research. Like, if in paragraph 3 you've espoused a marxist reading on top of romantic critical theory (hypothetical), then you would say that came from the reading of blah blah. Specifically talk about how each text influenced your work and where it did, and to what degree.

Having attained this foundational understanding I began searching for potential characters in Shakespeare’s texts. Through my readings of Inchbald, Hazlitt and Coleridge I discovered their fascination with Cleopatra from Antony and Cleopatra. Each individual had a unique lens upon Cleopatra as they represented the different periods within Romanticism. In Inchbald’s Preface to Antony and Cleopatra she focuses upon Cleopatra’s emotion and insecurities as rendering her with human qualities-a culmination of Neo-classist and Romantic critique. Hazlitt’s notion of Cleopatra’s character revolving around the dichotomy of the political, powerful queen and yet the seductive woman driven by emotion transcends Inchbald’s evaluations to provide Humanist and Romantic critique. Coleridge's note which was made for a lecture in 1818 on Antony and Cleopatra revealed his opinion that “perhaps of Shakespeare’s plays, the most wonderful is Antony and Cleopatra.” Coleridge’s evaluation of Cleopatra represents the height of Romantic critique remarking that “the sense of criminality in her passion” reveals the Romantic preoccupation that “depth and energy” within emotion renders an authentic human experience. The development of criticism on Cleopatra within the Romantic era significantly shaped my major work as it allowed me to analyse Cleopatra through a development of Romantic readings and the differing perspectives on the representation of her humanity. This formed a structure of my analysis, to focus on Cleopatra in light of each individual and create a sustained Romantic evaluation. So what did this offer that other texts couldn't? You're making the connection stronger in this one, but we need to be more evaluative now :) Was this pivotal in your work? You need to be more critical of your own research (which I know is tricky!).

My knowledge of Hermione from The Winter’s Tale greatly assisted in my choice to contrast Cleopatra with Hermione, still using the Romantic individual’s criticisms. Hermione and Cleopatra were both queens and had similar roles within their respective monarchs, however there was a stark contrast in personality, Hermione being quite reserved and Cleopatra a vivacious, vibrant character. Phyllis Rackin’s Shakespeare and Women and Juliet Dusinberre’s Shakespeare and The Nature of Women provided significant insight into the analysis of Hermione. However, despite my extensive research, I came to a realisation that Hermione did not represent a character which embodied Romantic fascination and that Romanticism instead focused on the character of Cordelia form King Lear. This realisation led to a change of route in my major work as I chose a different character in order to render an authentic Romantic reading of Shakespeare’s female characters. Unfortunately, this decision was made very late in the term and impacted upon my ability to extensively research Cordelia. Nice! Good critical thinking. I am aware, however, that King Lear was an incredibly popular play and has sustained its popularity into the 21st century. My knowledge that the Romantics revered Cordelia was supported by the alteration of King Lear’s ending in the 19th century, the Romantics deciding that Cordelia should not die because they believed such a wonderful and moral character did not deserve that ending. Therefore, the direction of my major work changed, however this ensures that it does reflect Romantic evaluations and criticisms of Shakespeare’s characters in order to create an authentic major work.

I chose to write a critical response as the form of my major work because this was the most effective instrument for the analysis which I desired to undertake. Despite having initially explored writing essays in the style of Elizabeth Inchbald, my final decision to utilise a traditional, objective, formal tone was determined by the strongly academic context of my response, particularly in my application of Romantic criticism. Beautiful! Very good! I was influenced in my decision of this structure by Joseph Addison’s On the Essay Form and Richard Amacher’s The Essay, which highlighted that a complex subject matter mandated an academic approach. Great! Furthermore, because the intended purpose of my response was investigative, I chose to write in third person. As my investigation progressed, I decided to structure my essay into sections to encapsulate the various criticisms of the Romantic individuals and their representations of the different periods of Romanticism for each female character. This structure not only provides different analyses per section of the humanity in each character but also allows a clear progression of Romantic critique and ideas. Your best paragraph...you are so critical and evaluative here, making direct links between different people/works and your own work.

My intended purpose, that is, the examination of Shakespeare’s female characters Cleopatra and Cordelia through the lens of Romantic critique from the individuals of Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge has been clearly shaped by the aforementioned area of investigation in Romantic criticisms of literature, particularly Shakespeare’s work. Long sentence girlfriend! I'd split it into two sentences, the first saying "The research of blah blah and blah has clearly shaped my major work. The evolution of my purpose has come to a point where it now clearly is: *say intention*" Something like this, split them up :) Autonomous investigation has played an integral role in the major work progress and has furthered my conceptual development in numerous areas as well as inspiring the form and nature of my essay.

I think you've done a great job, and the E2 report is difficult because you really need to use every single word strongly. Every word has to have a meaning and an intention - and you've got some great examples of that, but there are some parts where analysis is required to make a stronger account. I've pointed out the parts where I think you've done an excellent job of being critical of the process - hopefully it all makes sense to you! Again, take it all with a grain of salt, but I hope this gives you a step in the right direction :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Mary_a on March 17, 2017, 08:50:18 am
Hey Mary!

I perhaps don't need to, but I want to preface this by saying I was the only person in my cohort who did Ext2, I was a class of one person, so it's possible that my experience of the course is different to other peoples. Because I only have my own work to bounce off, I hope I'm giving the right advice, seeing as it's not like I could look at my peers to see their approach! But as is the case with all feed back, you decide what you want to take on :)
Spoiler
My major work examines Shakespeare’s characters Cleopatra from Antony and Cleopatra and Cordelia from King Lear through the lens of Romantic individuals Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge. The introduction of each character is unclear, maybe it's just because of the way it's reformatted here. Put the text's names in Italics or underlined so that we can tell apart the characters and their texts, just because it seems to be a bit jumbled and we can't have that happen so early on :) I arrived at this area of study through my readings of Joseph Ortiz’s Shakespeare and The Culture of Romanticism and Jonathan Bate’s The Romantics on Shakespeare, this allowed me to This language here makes sense, but it's not expressed in a sophisticated manner. Perhaps if you start a new sentence here, you can use nominalisation to your advantage. create an informed understanding of what Romantic critique consisted of and how it was applied to Shakespeare’s work. The focus on Shakespeare’s female characters has been quite neglected in history in literary history? critical history? Be specific here., however the new wave of feminism in the 21st century has brought Shakespeare’s female characters back to this implies that they were once at the forefront - were they? the forefront, but with a focus only on contemporary and 20th century critique. Within Romantic critique there was a concentration on Shakespeare’s women which was quite revolutionary for the era and it is imperative that this focus is revived in contemporary society I know it's small, but we've used "was" twice in this sentence. No huge deal, but being E2, expression is everything. I hope you don't think I'm being too picky, it's always easier to find faults in other people's work than your own! . Focusing on Romantic criticism offers something rich in the understanding of Shakespeare’s characters, the era’s evaluations have become quite forgotten and concentrating on this lens provides a view that informs character criticisms. The examination of the development of Romantic criticisms through different periods in the era provides various informed scopes for the evaluation of the characters. This analysis, using Romantic precepts attempts to grant validity to the female experience and representation of human characters. The journal the Shakespeare Quarterly is a peer reviewed journal, renowned for its publication of essays at the forefront of Shakespearean studies. Its concentration on scholarly essays investigating new perspectives on Shakespeare’s work provides an audience for my major work, which evaluates his characters using the Romantic lens.

My initial research focussed focused* upon the form of character criticism that the Romantics delighted in. Reading essays upon Romantic criticism such as George Mosse’s The Culture of Western Europe and Arthur Kirch’s Shakespeare’s Humanism reaffirmed a clear understanding of why the Romantics revered Shakespeare, highlighting that the Romantics centred their attention upon the internal condition of individuals and the analysis of the individual’s emotions. Prior to commencing my major work, I had an understanding of Romantic philosophies and precepts, however my research made me aware of its potential relevance and application to the critique of literature. My interest in Romantic critique grew as I researched essays written in the Romantic era, such as John Keats’ The Poetical Character and Samuel Johnson’s Dedication to Shakespeare which directly interacts with Shakespeare’s characters and Romantic perspectives upon them, Johnson remarking that “Shakespeare’s excellence was not the fiction of a tale, but the representation of life; and his reputation is therefore safe till human nature shall be changed.” I also came across peer reviews of Romantic essays written by Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge, such as Karen Gervitz’s Elizabeth Inchbald; Shakespeare Criticism, Francesca Saggini’s The Art of Fine Drama: Inchbald’s Remarks for The British Theatre and the Aesthetic Experience of the Late Eighteenth Century Theatre-Goer, Jonathan Bate’s William Hazlitt “On Siddons, Kemble and Kean” and James Engell’s Coleridge, Johnson and Shakespeare. This piqued my interest into the development of Romantic criticism on Shakespeare, Inchbald providing a bridge between Neoclassic Criticism and Romantic understanding, Hazlitt capturing Humanist and Romantic perspectives, whilst Coleridge forming the epitome of 19th century Romantic critique. This interest caused me to explore their own essays in order to garner knowledge on their precepts and preoccupations of Shakespeare’s characters. Elizabeth Inchbald’s remarks on Shakespeare’s characters in The British Theatre provided an understanding of her observations which grant validity to the female experience within the Romantic era. Hazlitt’s Characters of Shakespeare’s Plays also focussed upon Shakespeare’s female characters as capturing women with internal machinations. Coleridge’s criticism within his letter On Shakespeare’s Characters prefigured psycho-analytical readings of literature. This research shaped my major work, creating a discussion of Shakespeare’s characters through the development of Inchbald, Hazlitt and Coleridge’s critique-which reflects different periods of Romanticism. Until this last sentence, you've just listed research without actually making the strong connections. I think we need to revise the way you've approached this. Similar to an essay, you make a point and then you link. Here, you need to make a point of your research but then link it as well to the way your major work is right now. Directly link the exact point your major work is up to now, to the research. Like, if in paragraph 3 you've espoused a marxist reading on top of romantic critical theory (hypothetical), then you would say that came from the reading of blah blah. Specifically talk about how each text influenced your work and where it did, and to what degree.

Having attained this foundational understanding I began searching for potential characters in Shakespeare’s texts. Through my readings of Inchbald, Hazlitt and Coleridge I discovered their fascination with Cleopatra from Antony and Cleopatra. Each individual had a unique lens upon Cleopatra as they represented the different periods within Romanticism. In Inchbald’s Preface to Antony and Cleopatra she focuses upon Cleopatra’s emotion and insecurities as rendering her with human qualities-a culmination of Neo-classist and Romantic critique. Hazlitt’s notion of Cleopatra’s character revolving around the dichotomy of the political, powerful queen and yet the seductive woman driven by emotion transcends Inchbald’s evaluations to provide Humanist and Romantic critique. Coleridge's note which was made for a lecture in 1818 on Antony and Cleopatra revealed his opinion that “perhaps of Shakespeare’s plays, the most wonderful is Antony and Cleopatra.” Coleridge’s evaluation of Cleopatra represents the height of Romantic critique remarking that “the sense of criminality in her passion” reveals the Romantic preoccupation that “depth and energy” within emotion renders an authentic human experience. The development of criticism on Cleopatra within the Romantic era significantly shaped my major work as it allowed me to analyse Cleopatra through a development of Romantic readings and the differing perspectives on the representation of her humanity. This formed a structure of my analysis, to focus on Cleopatra in light of each individual and create a sustained Romantic evaluation. So what did this offer that other texts couldn't? You're making the connection stronger in this one, but we need to be more evaluative now :) Was this pivotal in your work? You need to be more critical of your own research (which I know is tricky!).

My knowledge of Hermione from The Winter’s Tale greatly assisted in my choice to contrast Cleopatra with Hermione, still using the Romantic individual’s criticisms. Hermione and Cleopatra were both queens and had similar roles within their respective monarchs, however there was a stark contrast in personality, Hermione being quite reserved and Cleopatra a vivacious, vibrant character. Phyllis Rackin’s Shakespeare and Women and Juliet Dusinberre’s Shakespeare and The Nature of Women provided significant insight into the analysis of Hermione. However, despite my extensive research, I came to a realisation that Hermione did not represent a character which embodied Romantic fascination and that Romanticism instead focused on the character of Cordelia form King Lear. This realisation led to a change of route in my major work as I chose a different character in order to render an authentic Romantic reading of Shakespeare’s female characters. Unfortunately, this decision was made very late in the term and impacted upon my ability to extensively research Cordelia. Nice! Good critical thinking. I am aware, however, that King Lear was an incredibly popular play and has sustained its popularity into the 21st century. My knowledge that the Romantics revered Cordelia was supported by the alteration of King Lear’s ending in the 19th century, the Romantics deciding that Cordelia should not die because they believed such a wonderful and moral character did not deserve that ending. Therefore, the direction of my major work changed, however this ensures that it does reflect Romantic evaluations and criticisms of Shakespeare’s characters in order to create an authentic major work.

I chose to write a critical response as the form of my major work because this was the most effective instrument for the analysis which I desired to undertake. Despite having initially explored writing essays in the style of Elizabeth Inchbald, my final decision to utilise a traditional, objective, formal tone was determined by the strongly academic context of my response, particularly in my application of Romantic criticism. Beautiful! Very good! I was influenced in my decision of this structure by Joseph Addison’s On the Essay Form and Richard Amacher’s The Essay, which highlighted that a complex subject matter mandated an academic approach. Great! Furthermore, because the intended purpose of my response was investigative, I chose to write in third person. As my investigation progressed, I decided to structure my essay into sections to encapsulate the various criticisms of the Romantic individuals and their representations of the different periods of Romanticism for each female character. This structure not only provides different analyses per section of the humanity in each character but also allows a clear progression of Romantic critique and ideas. Your best paragraph...you are so critical and evaluative here, making direct links between different people/works and your own work.

My intended purpose, that is, the examination of Shakespeare’s female characters Cleopatra and Cordelia through the lens of Romantic critique from the individuals of Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge has been clearly shaped by the aforementioned area of investigation in Romantic criticisms of literature, particularly Shakespeare’s work. Long sentence girlfriend! I'd split it into two sentences, the first saying "The research of blah blah and blah has clearly shaped my major work. The evolution of my purpose has come to a point where it now clearly is: *say intention*" Something like this, split them up :) Autonomous investigation has played an integral role in the major work progress and has furthered my conceptual development in numerous areas as well as inspiring the form and nature of my essay.

I think you've done a great job, and the E2 report is difficult because you really need to use every single word strongly. Every word has to have a meaning and an intention - and you've got some great examples of that, but there are some parts where analysis is required to make a stronger account. I've pointed out the parts where I think you've done an excellent job of being critical of the process - hopefully it all makes sense to you! Again, take it all with a grain of salt, but I hope this gives you a step in the right direction :)

Hi Elyse,

I really, really appreciate your feedback! It was everything I needed in order to understand what the report actually required from me and how to elucidate it properly in my work. I am so grateful!

Thank you so, so much Elyse! The effort you put in at AtarNotes is just spectacular and I am so grateful to everyone here! :)

Thanks again,

Mary x
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on April 11, 2017, 01:52:01 pm
Hi:)
My major work is full of experimentation and I've finally decided to use first person for my child refugee (as oppose to third person).
This means I have to change the 1200 words I wrote previously.
Wondering if you had any tips on writing in 1st person from a child's POV.

Thank you!! 
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on April 11, 2017, 09:29:46 pm
Hi:)
My major work is full of experimentation and I've finally decided to use first person for my child refugee (as oppose to third person).
This means I have to change the 1200 words I wrote previously.
Wondering if you had any tips on writing in 1st person from a child's POV.

Thank you!!

Hey banana! You've not got an easy task ahead of you I'm afraid to say! There are lots of things to consider when writing from a child's perspective. Firstly, the vocabulary. You have the be realistic in what you are suggesting is coming from the mind and mouth of the character. Would an 8 year old likely know that word? Would an 8 year old from Iran likely know that word? Etc...  It does limit you at times, which is where it's tricky. You want to be able to show your prowess with writing but at the same time you are constrained to the voice of the child. We need to believe that a child is saying these words in order for us to benefit from the first person narration, otherwise, you may as well leave it in third person. A lot of writers manage a child's voice because they will use an adult's perspective to look back on their childhood - thus they can superimpose a maturity of vocabulary and perspective. If this isn't an option in your story, we need to look at other options. If you have the luxury of being able to communicate with a child about your story - maybe do so. For example, if you need to describe rain, and your neighbour is the same age as your protagonist, ask them: What does rain sound like? Perhaps you can talk with them about a few things just to attune your mind into the mind of a child, so you know what they aliken things to.

Another thing to consider is, yes you are confined to the vocabulary of a child for the most part, but there are a few ways around that. The way I see most fitting is by recognising the thought process of a child. So, even if you have to use the more sophisticated vocabulary, you might be able to adjust syntax in a way that creates a very "childish thoughtful process." I find that my nephew says "or" alllll the time. "Batman can fly over the top here and then you scoop him up. OR, OR, he can fly over the top and then be eaten by a dragon! orrrrr, he can..." It's this kind of excited way of putting pieces together that children have. This also reminds me, punctuation can make all the difference! Kids can sound excited about things, or very, very, sad about things.

I have to admit, I haven't written in the voice of a child for a long time so you'd need to take this with a grain of salt because I haven't practiced it, but I've read a lot of creatives with children's voices so hopefully this gives you some pointers! :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on April 17, 2017, 09:08:40 am
Hey banana! You've not got an easy task ahead of you I'm afraid to say! There are lots of things to consider when writing from a child's perspective. Firstly, the vocabulary. You have the be realistic in what you are suggesting is coming from the mind and mouth of the character. Would an 8 year old likely know that word? Would an 8 year old from Iran likely know that word? Etc...  It does limit you at times, which is where it's tricky. You want to be able to show your prowess with writing but at the same time you are constrained to the voice of the child. We need to believe that a child is saying these words in order for us to benefit from the first person narration, otherwise, you may as well leave it in third person. A lot of writers manage a child's voice because they will use an adult's perspective to look back on their childhood - thus they can superimpose a maturity of vocabulary and perspective. If this isn't an option in your story, we need to look at other options. If you have the luxury of being able to communicate with a child about your story - maybe do so. For example, if you need to describe rain, and your neighbour is the same age as your protagonist, ask them: What does rain sound like? Perhaps you can talk with them about a few things just to attune your mind into the mind of a child, so you know what they aliken things to.

Another thing to consider is, yes you are confined to the vocabulary of a child for the most part, but there are a few ways around that. The way I see most fitting is by recognising the thought process of a child. So, even if you have to use the more sophisticated vocabulary, you might be able to adjust syntax in a way that creates a very "childish thoughtful process." I find that my nephew says "or" alllll the time. "Batman can fly over the top here and then you scoop him up. OR, OR, he can fly over the top and then be eaten by a dragon! orrrrr, he can..." It's this kind of excited way of putting pieces together that children have. This also reminds me, punctuation can make all the difference! Kids can sound excited about things, or very, very, sad about things.

I have to admit, I haven't written in the voice of a child for a long time so you'd need to take this with a grain of salt because I haven't practiced it, but I've read a lot of creatives with children's voices so hopefully this gives you some pointers! :)

Thanks a lot, Elyse!
Just a quick question--do you know the titles of any novels/short stories that include a child's voice?
Thank you :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on April 18, 2017, 04:56:47 am
Thanks a lot, Elyse!
Just a quick question--do you know the titles of any novels/short stories that include a child's voice?
Thank you :)

The Curious Case of the Dog in the Night uses an autistic child's voice I believe - it might be an interesting read. I can't think of others off the top of my head...every one I think of is third person narrator focusing on a child: Matilda, Great Expectations, Harry Potter (early books). They may be of some benefit to you too - but not quite as much. If I think of any more I'll be sure to jump back here!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bholenath125 on April 18, 2017, 04:14:33 pm
HEY ELYSE
Im working on my report and I was wondering if I posted it here, would you be able to provide me with feedback?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on April 18, 2017, 04:57:59 pm
HEY ELYSE
Im working on my report and I was wondering if I posted it here, would you be able to provide me with feedback?
Hey bholenath125, you can post your report if you like! You've gotten to 30 posts so you can have another set of feedback :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on April 18, 2017, 08:34:20 pm
The Curious Case of the Dog in the Night uses an autistic child's voice I believe - it might be an interesting read. I can't think of others off the top of my head...every one I think of is third person narrator focusing on a child: Matilda, Great Expectations, Harry Potter (early books). They may be of some benefit to you too - but not quite as much. If I think of any more I'll be sure to jump back here!

Thanks so much!
Great time to read as it's the holidays 😀
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on April 20, 2017, 06:39:00 am
Hey!
Do you have any tips on the report or any samples?

Thank you!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on April 20, 2017, 01:52:26 pm
Hey!
Do you have any tips on the report or any samples?

Thank you!

Hey bananna! See this response I put together for another student with links to samples and important docs:   :)

Hey Mary! Glad to have a fellow Ext2er around!

I have a few suggestions for this, some you may have already undertaken:
-Have a look at the marking guidelines for the Reflection Statement. You can see that here. The report is essentially a mini reflection statement in a lot of ways, the report is a way of preparing you for the reflection statement that's yet to come. See it as a polished draft, if you will! So looking at the guidelines for the reflection statement's marking will be useful for understanding the standard they expect.
-Also, have a look at the requirements of the reflection statement as this has a little checklist in there. It shouldn't really raise anything new, but I found it comforting to look at when I created my report so that I knew I had covered everything.
-If you're not sure about the language you're using, the structure...the ideas even, have a look at the State Library's collection of exemplar Reflection Statements here. Admittedly, when I first looked at these I felt like anything I had produced was ridiculously inadequate. Know that there are many ways of expressing things, but you might find some inspiration about what marker's respond well to by checking this out!
-Remember to recognise that the process of research and writing is flawed. You won't seem disorganised if you admit to changing your concept, or anything like that. The raw process of researching and writing is calculated, organic, stressful, creative, and disciplined all at once. You don't just have to draw on organised research, you can admit to organic evolution of your concepts if that is appropriate to your work.
-Don't be afraid to quote sections of your work to show exactly where your ideas have manifested in your major work!


Good luck...drop back any time :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on April 25, 2017, 09:34:14 pm
Hiya Elyse!

I have included quite a lot in my report (i have to condense it) , but was wondering what are the critical points that i must cover?

Thank you!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on April 25, 2017, 11:00:54 pm
Hiya Elyse!

I have included quite a lot in my report (i have to condense it) , but was wondering what are the critical points that i must cover?

Thank you!

Hey there :)
You absolutely must be summarising and connecting the relationship between the major work as it stands now and the independent research. You must include the intended audience. How does concepts, language, and techniques come together? At some point you need to make a link to the Adv or Ext 1 course work to say how that informed or inspired your work. Focus on the idea of development: your process is likely flawed, that's real! You should talk about the way different things have influenced the work and how it has become what it is now.

Optional: Where to from here?

Obviously refer to the exact criteria your assessment task has set, but this is how I would approach it! :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on April 26, 2017, 03:29:07 pm
Hi,

I read The Book Thief, My Sister's Keeper and The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime in preparation for my major work, but have the feeling I shouldn't include these titles in my report since they don't seem sophisticated enough for the adv/ext 1 course. Please advise.

 regards,

banana
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on April 26, 2017, 05:27:49 pm
Hi,

I read The Book Thief, My Sister's Keeper and The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime in preparation for my major work, but have the feeling I shouldn't include these titles in my report since they don't seem sophisticated enough for the adv/ext 1 course. Please advise.

 regards,

banana

The inspiration for your major work comes from various places - some academic, some pop culture, some spontaneous, some organic, and so on. I definitely think you should put these in your statement if they have been big influences on your work! The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night is a big West End production in London at the moment - it's a very well known and loved text! The statement is about recognising that the process isn't perfect, it's jarred and also fluent, it's chaotic but also organised - whatever the process has been for you! So I recommend putting these texts in :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: samsclaire on April 27, 2017, 07:02:46 pm
hey! my teacher keeps telling me that my work is going off on tangents. does anyone have tips to refine 'it'?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Mary_a on April 27, 2017, 07:59:48 pm
Hi Elyse,

I just wanted to thank you and express my sincere gratitude to you and this website!! I got my extension 2 report back today, after the preparation, editing, drafting, researching and then rewriting and redrafting in accordance with your feedback I got 14/15 (which, with my teacher is the best you'll ever get to be honest)! If it weren't for your feedback and your help I would not have gotten anywhere near that mark!

So thank you, thank you so much to yourself, to Jamon and to AtarNotes. I really, really appreciate it!

Mary x


Hey Mary!

I perhaps don't need to, but I want to preface this by saying I was the only person in my cohort who did Ext2, I was a class of one person, so it's possible that my experience of the course is different to other peoples. Because I only have my own work to bounce off, I hope I'm giving the right advice, seeing as it's not like I could look at my peers to see their approach! But as is the case with all feed back, you decide what you want to take on :)
Spoiler
My major work examines Shakespeare’s characters Cleopatra from Antony and Cleopatra and Cordelia from King Lear through the lens of Romantic individuals Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge. The introduction of each character is unclear, maybe it's just because of the way it's reformatted here. Put the text's names in Italics or underlined so that we can tell apart the characters and their texts, just because it seems to be a bit jumbled and we can't have that happen so early on :) I arrived at this area of study through my readings of Joseph Ortiz’s Shakespeare and The Culture of Romanticism and Jonathan Bate’s The Romantics on Shakespeare, this allowed me to This language here makes sense, but it's not expressed in a sophisticated manner. Perhaps if you start a new sentence here, you can use nominalisation to your advantage. create an informed understanding of what Romantic critique consisted of and how it was applied to Shakespeare’s work. The focus on Shakespeare’s female characters has been quite neglected in history in literary history? critical history? Be specific here., however the new wave of feminism in the 21st century has brought Shakespeare’s female characters back to this implies that they were once at the forefront - were they? the forefront, but with a focus only on contemporary and 20th century critique. Within Romantic critique there was a concentration on Shakespeare’s women which was quite revolutionary for the era and it is imperative that this focus is revived in contemporary society I know it's small, but we've used "was" twice in this sentence. No huge deal, but being E2, expression is everything. I hope you don't think I'm being too picky, it's always easier to find faults in other people's work than your own! . Focusing on Romantic criticism offers something rich in the understanding of Shakespeare’s characters, the era’s evaluations have become quite forgotten and concentrating on this lens provides a view that informs character criticisms. The examination of the development of Romantic criticisms through different periods in the era provides various informed scopes for the evaluation of the characters. This analysis, using Romantic precepts attempts to grant validity to the female experience and representation of human characters. The journal the Shakespeare Quarterly is a peer reviewed journal, renowned for its publication of essays at the forefront of Shakespearean studies. Its concentration on scholarly essays investigating new perspectives on Shakespeare’s work provides an audience for my major work, which evaluates his characters using the Romantic lens.

My initial research focussed focused* upon the form of character criticism that the Romantics delighted in. Reading essays upon Romantic criticism such as George Mosse’s The Culture of Western Europe and Arthur Kirch’s Shakespeare’s Humanism reaffirmed a clear understanding of why the Romantics revered Shakespeare, highlighting that the Romantics centred their attention upon the internal condition of individuals and the analysis of the individual’s emotions. Prior to commencing my major work, I had an understanding of Romantic philosophies and precepts, however my research made me aware of its potential relevance and application to the critique of literature. My interest in Romantic critique grew as I researched essays written in the Romantic era, such as John Keats’ The Poetical Character and Samuel Johnson’s Dedication to Shakespeare which directly interacts with Shakespeare’s characters and Romantic perspectives upon them, Johnson remarking that “Shakespeare’s excellence was not the fiction of a tale, but the representation of life; and his reputation is therefore safe till human nature shall be changed.” I also came across peer reviews of Romantic essays written by Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge, such as Karen Gervitz’s Elizabeth Inchbald; Shakespeare Criticism, Francesca Saggini’s The Art of Fine Drama: Inchbald’s Remarks for The British Theatre and the Aesthetic Experience of the Late Eighteenth Century Theatre-Goer, Jonathan Bate’s William Hazlitt “On Siddons, Kemble and Kean” and James Engell’s Coleridge, Johnson and Shakespeare. This piqued my interest into the development of Romantic criticism on Shakespeare, Inchbald providing a bridge between Neoclassic Criticism and Romantic understanding, Hazlitt capturing Humanist and Romantic perspectives, whilst Coleridge forming the epitome of 19th century Romantic critique. This interest caused me to explore their own essays in order to garner knowledge on their precepts and preoccupations of Shakespeare’s characters. Elizabeth Inchbald’s remarks on Shakespeare’s characters in The British Theatre provided an understanding of her observations which grant validity to the female experience within the Romantic era. Hazlitt’s Characters of Shakespeare’s Plays also focussed upon Shakespeare’s female characters as capturing women with internal machinations. Coleridge’s criticism within his letter On Shakespeare’s Characters prefigured psycho-analytical readings of literature. This research shaped my major work, creating a discussion of Shakespeare’s characters through the development of Inchbald, Hazlitt and Coleridge’s critique-which reflects different periods of Romanticism. Until this last sentence, you've just listed research without actually making the strong connections. I think we need to revise the way you've approached this. Similar to an essay, you make a point and then you link. Here, you need to make a point of your research but then link it as well to the way your major work is right now. Directly link the exact point your major work is up to now, to the research. Like, if in paragraph 3 you've espoused a marxist reading on top of romantic critical theory (hypothetical), then you would say that came from the reading of blah blah. Specifically talk about how each text influenced your work and where it did, and to what degree.

Having attained this foundational understanding I began searching for potential characters in Shakespeare’s texts. Through my readings of Inchbald, Hazlitt and Coleridge I discovered their fascination with Cleopatra from Antony and Cleopatra. Each individual had a unique lens upon Cleopatra as they represented the different periods within Romanticism. In Inchbald’s Preface to Antony and Cleopatra she focuses upon Cleopatra’s emotion and insecurities as rendering her with human qualities-a culmination of Neo-classist and Romantic critique. Hazlitt’s notion of Cleopatra’s character revolving around the dichotomy of the political, powerful queen and yet the seductive woman driven by emotion transcends Inchbald’s evaluations to provide Humanist and Romantic critique. Coleridge's note which was made for a lecture in 1818 on Antony and Cleopatra revealed his opinion that “perhaps of Shakespeare’s plays, the most wonderful is Antony and Cleopatra.” Coleridge’s evaluation of Cleopatra represents the height of Romantic critique remarking that “the sense of criminality in her passion” reveals the Romantic preoccupation that “depth and energy” within emotion renders an authentic human experience. The development of criticism on Cleopatra within the Romantic era significantly shaped my major work as it allowed me to analyse Cleopatra through a development of Romantic readings and the differing perspectives on the representation of her humanity. This formed a structure of my analysis, to focus on Cleopatra in light of each individual and create a sustained Romantic evaluation. So what did this offer that other texts couldn't? You're making the connection stronger in this one, but we need to be more evaluative now :) Was this pivotal in your work? You need to be more critical of your own research (which I know is tricky!).

My knowledge of Hermione from The Winter’s Tale greatly assisted in my choice to contrast Cleopatra with Hermione, still using the Romantic individual’s criticisms. Hermione and Cleopatra were both queens and had similar roles within their respective monarchs, however there was a stark contrast in personality, Hermione being quite reserved and Cleopatra a vivacious, vibrant character. Phyllis Rackin’s Shakespeare and Women and Juliet Dusinberre’s Shakespeare and The Nature of Women provided significant insight into the analysis of Hermione. However, despite my extensive research, I came to a realisation that Hermione did not represent a character which embodied Romantic fascination and that Romanticism instead focused on the character of Cordelia form King Lear. This realisation led to a change of route in my major work as I chose a different character in order to render an authentic Romantic reading of Shakespeare’s female characters. Unfortunately, this decision was made very late in the term and impacted upon my ability to extensively research Cordelia. Nice! Good critical thinking. I am aware, however, that King Lear was an incredibly popular play and has sustained its popularity into the 21st century. My knowledge that the Romantics revered Cordelia was supported by the alteration of King Lear’s ending in the 19th century, the Romantics deciding that Cordelia should not die because they believed such a wonderful and moral character did not deserve that ending. Therefore, the direction of my major work changed, however this ensures that it does reflect Romantic evaluations and criticisms of Shakespeare’s characters in order to create an authentic major work.

I chose to write a critical response as the form of my major work because this was the most effective instrument for the analysis which I desired to undertake. Despite having initially explored writing essays in the style of Elizabeth Inchbald, my final decision to utilise a traditional, objective, formal tone was determined by the strongly academic context of my response, particularly in my application of Romantic criticism. Beautiful! Very good! I was influenced in my decision of this structure by Joseph Addison’s On the Essay Form and Richard Amacher’s The Essay, which highlighted that a complex subject matter mandated an academic approach. Great! Furthermore, because the intended purpose of my response was investigative, I chose to write in third person. As my investigation progressed, I decided to structure my essay into sections to encapsulate the various criticisms of the Romantic individuals and their representations of the different periods of Romanticism for each female character. This structure not only provides different analyses per section of the humanity in each character but also allows a clear progression of Romantic critique and ideas. Your best paragraph...you are so critical and evaluative here, making direct links between different people/works and your own work.

My intended purpose, that is, the examination of Shakespeare’s female characters Cleopatra and Cordelia through the lens of Romantic critique from the individuals of Elizabeth Inchbald, William Hazlitt and Samuel Taylor Coleridge has been clearly shaped by the aforementioned area of investigation in Romantic criticisms of literature, particularly Shakespeare’s work. Long sentence girlfriend! I'd split it into two sentences, the first saying "The research of blah blah and blah has clearly shaped my major work. The evolution of my purpose has come to a point where it now clearly is: *say intention*" Something like this, split them up :) Autonomous investigation has played an integral role in the major work progress and has furthered my conceptual development in numerous areas as well as inspiring the form and nature of my essay.

I think you've done a great job, and the E2 report is difficult because you really need to use every single word strongly. Every word has to have a meaning and an intention - and you've got some great examples of that, but there are some parts where analysis is required to make a stronger account. I've pointed out the parts where I think you've done an excellent job of being critical of the process - hopefully it all makes sense to you! Again, take it all with a grain of salt, but I hope this gives you a step in the right direction :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on April 28, 2017, 06:45:08 am
hey! my teacher keeps telling me that my work is going off on tangents. does anyone have tips to refine 'it'?

Hey there! Is your work your major work or your reflection statement/report? If it's the major - is it a creative? essay? film? Let me know and I can try and help accordingly!

Hi Elyse,

I just wanted to thank you and express my sincere gratitude to you and this website!! I got my extension 2 report back today, after the preparation, editing, drafting, researching and then rewriting and redrafting in accordance with your feedback I got 14/15 (which, with my teacher is the best you'll ever get to be honest)! If it weren't for your feedback and your help I would not have gotten anywhere near that mark!

So thank you, thank you so much to yourself, to Jamon and to AtarNotes. I really, really appreciate it!

Mary x



Mary I'm so thrilled to hear this! I love it when hard working students get the marks they deserve. You edited your work to perfection. So happy for you! Thanks for being around :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on April 28, 2017, 11:02:16 pm
Hi Elyse!

Was wondering if you could check my report and especially comment on whether I need more information regarding the texts/novels I have mentioned. Also, my teacher insists on us including links to both adv and ext 1, so I have to work in the ext 1 part right now, deleting some bits without compromising the quality. Do you think the subheadings make it easier to read/follow or should I remove them? Thank you so much :)

Spoiler

My major work is a short story consisting of four parallel plots to explore the concept of nationalism and xenophobia in Australia. It specifically looks at the impact of these concepts on refugees. My aim is to encourage my audience to formulate conscious political opinions and change hostile perceptions of refugees. My major work is set primarily in a detention center and contains accounts of 4 polarised characters highly involved in the refugee situation—a young Syrian refugee, an older Sri Lankan refugee, a photographer and a bureaucrat. The inclusion of multiple characters in a tandem-narrative structure reinforces their vastly different reactions to the effects of detention. For example, one refugee embraces hope in exchange for emotional freedom, whilst the other resists, longing to be back home. This structure builds upon my concept by attempting a holistic representation of this complex condition. As part of my investigation, I have read widely into the physical, as well as psychological impacts of detention centers and the effects of diaspora. I have also consulted writing manuals as well as the works of authors—Jodi Picoult, Mark Haddon and James Joyce, to construct an authentic narrative voice that conveys insights into this aspect of the human condition.


Purpose and Audience
          My purpose stems from the belief that most people’s information and understanding of the refugee situation comes from politicians, bureaucrats and media outlets and not from the actual refugees themselves. My intended audience is young adults in Australia who may not have enough information to form their own conscious political opinion of the refugee crises or young adults who want to learn about the prevailing humanitarian crisis of their generation. I believe my form enhances this purpose, providing my audience with multiple perspectives of the processes and people involved in lives of refugees.

Progress since Viva Voce
          Since the viva voce, the development of my major work was focused on the content and substance of the words on the page. Composing drafts helped me solidify my goals and enabled me to perceive my improved writing technique. To date, I have written first drafts for all four perspectives, and am in the process of concreting the point of view that will be conveyed—first, second, or third and writing it respectively. Depicting the refugee accounts in first person forces the audience to look at the world from a different perspective. By doing so, the reader is able to take on the refugees’ perspective as his own and to understand the their struggle and outlook on life. In contrast, I want to create distance between the bureaucrat and audience, reflecting his hard-headedness, hence my deliberate choice of third person. Inspired by Italo Calvino’s If on a Winters Night a Traveler (1979), I have decided to use second person for the photographer’s accounts. Pictures and photographs tend to talk directly to an individual—which is exactly what second person does. For someone who lives life through a lens, to use second person, seems to me, the most natural and the only logical choice. Although I have researched the issue extensively and drawn inspiration from multiple sources, I find myself constantly learning new things. Since this topic controversial, the debate constantly grows and evolves. I am also in the process of improving the complication and climax. I initially wrote each perspective separately (in block form) to allow myself a sense of direction and focus while writing, and to easily track changes. However, this approach had its disadvantages, as I wrote all four characters inadvertently in the same writing style—it was not until I juxtaposed their perspectives had I realised my mistake. This realisation led me to the decision to use truncated sentence solely for the bureaucrat to reflect his sternness, and longer sentences for the Sri Lankan refugee to mirror stream-of-consciousness.

Progress: Reflection
          I encountered difficulty deciding in which point of view I should portray to my audience. To resolve this, I invested time into further investigation and I decided to start writing to inspire my creativity and thought. This is the reason I decided to do the tandem narrative—my research showed me that there wasn’t any one correct idea about the refugee situation—the issue is too complicated to only have one correct view. At that moment, I thought I was wasting time, however retrospectively, I know this was the right decision to make, as the English Extension Two major work is built upon experimentation. Nonetheless, I believe with every writing session, I am gradually achieving my purpose. Although flawed at times, I believe my progress to date is significant.

Research: Effects of Detention
          My research into multicultural assimilation, Australian law, and the effects of detention has had a direct impact on the underlying themes of my major work. The International Detention Coalition 2012 report Captured Children details the physical, psychological and psychosocial impacts of detention. This report illustrated a number of refugees showed “sleep and appetite disturbance, symptoms of post-traumatic stress, psychosomatic symptoms…” This information provided me insight into the disturbing number of long-term conditions individuals, including children, face in detention; my concept allowed me to embed this into my Major Work. My Sri Lankan character shows symptoms of disturbed sleep and Post-traumatic Stress Syndrome, waking from nightmares and experiencing flashbacks triggered by any loud noise resembling gunshots. Another 2012 study, Asylum Seeker Health and Wellbeing, commissioned by St. Vincent’s Health Australia, describes a common ideology held by Australians towards asylum seekers and refugees is “they are violating our sovereignty”. My bureaucrat, who does not feel refugees are of any use to the Australian economy or society, has adopted this mindset. Thus, research into the effects of detention on vulnerable individuals has strengthened my understanding of the complexity of the situation and my concept has allowed me to convey this research in my major work.

Research: Novels
           My understanding of a child’s voice comes from reading the works of Jodi Picoult [My Sister’s Keeper (2004)], Markus Zusak [The Book Thief (2005)] and Mark Haddon [The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime (2003)]. Their writing emphasise the singular, yet unique nature of the child’s voice as well as help me understand the tandem structure better. Also, reading these works enables me to apprehend my intended audience, because these authors were able to reach young adults. Furthermore, John Marsden’s Everything I Know About Writing inspired me to undertake a ‘circular ending’ for my short story. Marsden details his favourite endings as “the ones where I get a sense of life continuing: that the story is merely an important episode out of a life, but much has happened before the story begins and more will happen after it ends.” I adapted this form into my own work because I want to manifest the small-scale, yet significant, acceptance of my bureaucrat character from the start to the finish. Yet, the little change is also reflective of the refugee process and intake at this time (2017), illuminating that until there is a change in peoples’ outlook, the story will never truly end.

Link to Advanced Course
          Furthermore, James Joyce’s short story Eveline (1904) uses flashbacks scattered throughout the piece to clearly outline the relationship between the young woman and her past. This technique allows the reader insight into the shifting characterisation in the mind of the protagonist. I have used this compositional device as inspiration for my Sri Lankan refugee as he recalls “Her eyes were transfixed on the distant seas and her cheeks stained with dried tears. I shook my head, “amma”, I called. No response.” I feel this technique effective as I am able to depict the common psychosomatic symptoms experienced by many refugees. Thus, the reading of other short stories has widely impacted the development of my major work.

Intent on Further Investigation
          At this particular moment in time, I believe the most effective way forward is to continue writing and focus on depicting realistic characters to my audience. I have found along the way that my intended form often devotes too much attention to the larger concept and not enough to individual characterisation. To resolve this, I believe simple storylines pertaining to few main themes can provide a strong foundation for a unified thematic whole. I believe by continually writing and experimenting, I can create a unique short story that young Australians can engage with. Furthermore, I intend to read Nelson Mandela’s A Long Walk to Freedom (1994) to perceive the feelings and emotions in someone wrongly persecuted and incarcerated.


In conclusion, my major work has been influenced by my research into the construction of a short story, popular young adult fiction, and childrens’ voice in narrative. My theoretical research into the effects of detention on refugees and asylum seekers has allowed me to explore my concept in greater depth, and thus create authentic characters that are affected by the detention conditions and create characters that the reader is able to identify with. Further, my research into the forms and features of short stories has enabled me to implement complex techniques in my major work that ultimately deepen the audience’s connection with the text.

Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Mary_a on April 29, 2017, 10:10:34 am
Hey Elyse,

Thank you :) And I think I'll be sticking around for a very long time!

Mary x


Mary I'm so thrilled to hear this! I love it when hard working students get the marks they deserve. You edited your work to perfection. So happy for you! Thanks for being around :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on April 30, 2017, 10:35:16 am
Hi Elyse!

Was wondering if you could check my report and especially comment on whether I need more information regarding the texts/novels I have mentioned. Also, my teacher insists on us including links to both adv and ext 1, so I have to work in the ext 1 part right now, deleting some bits without compromising the quality. Do you think the subheadings make it easier to read/follow or should I remove them? Thank you so much :)

Hey bananna, just dropping in to say I haven't forgotten, I've just left this one until I have the time to sit and properly focus on it, which will be later today (Italian time though, so maybe in the unheavenly hours of Monday morning for you). But will be back to you shortly! :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on April 30, 2017, 10:29:30 pm
Hey bananna, just dropping in to say I haven't forgotten, I've just left this one until I have the time to sit and properly focus on it, which will be later today (Italian time though, so maybe in the unheavenly hours of Monday morning for you). But will be back to you shortly! :)

Thank you!
And, I wrote this paragraph, but removed it because my tutor said it doesnt add much to my piece and I needed to cut down.
Wanted your opinion of it :)

Furthermore, in her novel My Sister’s Keeper (2004), Jodi Picoult presents a complex, contentious issue from the perspective of seven characters with distinctive voice and mannerisms, giving the reader a more holistic version of events and realistic characters to identify with. This inspired me to convey my issue from four different perspectives, focusing on the experience of refugees and how it looks to an outside observer. Markus Zusak’s The Book Thief (2005) reminded me of the power of literature in “Without words, the Führer was nothing.” This inspired me to consider the strength in literature and make every word mean something. These two fictional pieces helped me decide on my tandem structure to create a realistic depiction of the refugee experience. In addition, I read The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime (2003) by Mark Haddon to assist me in creating an authentic, believable child’s voice.

thanks :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on May 01, 2017, 08:29:58 am
Hey bananna, just dropping in to say I haven't forgotten, I've just left this one until I have the time to sit and properly focus on it, which will be later today (Italian time though, so maybe in the unheavenly hours of Monday morning for you). But will be back to you shortly! :)

Annnnd it's midnight here in Italy, didn't quite get to the "afternoon" thanks to unforeseen circumstances :P

Thank you!
And, I wrote this paragraph, but removed it because my tutor said it doesnt add much to my piece and I needed to cut down.
Wanted your opinion of it :)

thanks :)
My thoughts are in the spoiler :)

Spoiler
My major work is a short story consisting of four parallel plots to explore the concepts of nationalism and xenophobia in Australia. It specifically looks at the impact of these concepts on doesn't really flow - perhaps, "looks at the way refugees are influenced by these two concepts." refugees. My aim is to encourage my audience to formulate conscious political opinions and change hostile perceptions of refugees. Beautiful!My major work is set primarily in a detention center centre* and contains accounts of 4 four* (numbers until ten are written alphabetically not numerically) polarised characters highly involved in the refugee situation—a young Syrian refugee, an older Sri Lankan refugee, a photographer and a bureaucrat. The inclusion of multiple characters in a tandem-narrative structure reinforces their vastly different reactions to the effects of detention. For example, one refugee embraces hope in exchange for emotional freedom, whilst the other resists, longing to be back home. This structure builds upon my concept by attempting a holistic representation of this complex condition. As part of my investigation, I have read widely into the physical, as well as psychological impacts of detention centers and the effects of diaspora. I have also consulted writing manuals as well as the works of authors—Jodi Picoult, Mark Haddon and James Joyce, to construct an authentic narrative voice that conveys insights into this aspect of the human condition. This was really easy to read, I loved it. Your purpose is very clear, I understand it completely thanks to such a beautiful introduction to it all.


Purpose and Audience

          My purpose stems from the belief that most people’s information and understanding of the refugee situation comes from politicians, bureaucrats and media outlets and not from the actual refugees themselves. My intended audience is young adults in Australia who may not have enough do you think it's that they don't have enough information - or is it more accurately, you think they don't have information given from all sources? Their information is one sided? Because you've acknowledged there is info that people receive, but you want to challenge that with a new perspective. information to form their own conscious political opinion of the refugee crises or young adults who want to learn about the prevailing humanitarian crisis of their generation. I believe my form enhances this purpose, providing my audience with multiple perspectives of the processes and people involved in lives of refugees. Great!

Progress since Viva Voce
          Since the viva voce, the development of my major work was focused on the content and substance of the words on the page. Composing drafts helped me solidify my goals and enabled me to perceive my improved writing technique. To date, I have written first drafts for all four perspectives, and am in the process of concreting the point of view that will be conveyed—first, second, or third and writing it respectively. Depicting the refugee accounts in first person forces the audience to look at the world from a different perspective. By doing so, the reader is able to take on the refugees’ perspective as his own and to understand the their struggle and outlook on life. In contrast, I want to create distance between the bureaucrat and audience, reflecting his hard-headedness, hence my deliberate choice of third person. Inspired by Italo Calvino’s If on a Winters Night a Traveler (1979), I have decided to use second person for the photographer’s accounts. Pictures and photographs tend to talk directly to an individual—which is exactly what second person does. For someone who lives life through a lens, to use second person, seems to me, the most natural and the only logical choice. Although I have researched the issue extensively and drawn inspiration from multiple sources, I find myself constantly learning new things. Since this topic is controversial, I'd say, "Given the controversial nature of the topic" in order to increase formality and fluidity here. the debate constantly grows and evolves. I am also in the process of improving the complication and climax. I initially wrote each perspective separately (in block form) to allow myself a sense of direction and focus while writing, and to easily track changes. However, this approach had its disadvantages, as I wrote all four characters inadvertently in the same writing style—it was not until I juxtaposed their perspectives had I realised my mistake. Love this part - it's really important you recognise this! This realisation led me to the decision to use truncated sentence solely for the bureaucrat to reflect his sternness, and longer sentences for the Sri Lankan refugee to mirror stream-of-consciousness. Lovely! Really important that you've included this, I think! It shows you're critical of both your work but also your process.

Progress: Reflection
          I encountered difficulty deciding in which point of view I should portray to my audience. To resolve this, I invested time into further investigation and I decided to start writing to inspire my creativity and thought. This is the reason I decided to do the tandem narrative—my research showed me that there wasn’t any one correct idea about the refugee situation—the issue is too complicated to only have one correct view. At that moment, I thought I was wasting time, however retrospectively, I know this was the right decision to make, as the English Extension Two major work is built upon experimentation. There's a lot of commas in this sentence! I'd re-word it to avoid this. Nonetheless, I believe with every writing session, I am gradually achieving my purpose. Although flawed at times, I believe my progress to date is significant.

Research: Effects of Detention
          My research into multicultural assimilation, Australian law, and the effects of detention comma here or else it reads differently (I was puzzled for a bit) has had a direct impact on the underlying themes of my major work. The International Detention Coalition 2012 report Captured Children details the physical, psychological and psychosocial impacts of detention. This report illustrated a number of refugees showed “sleep and appetite disturbance, symptoms of post-traumatic stress, psychosomatic symptoms…” This information provided me insight into the disturbing number of long-term conditions individuals, including children, face in detention; my concept allowed me to embed this It's just a wording thing - but I don't know what your concept did to allow this? Did the concept allow this? It's just about wording, but I don't entirely know what you mean by this part. into my Major Work. My Sri Lankan character shows symptoms of disturbed sleep and Post-traumatic Stress Syndrome, waking from nightmares and experiencing flashbacks triggered by any loud noise resembling gunshots. Another 2012 study, Asylum Seeker Health and Wellbeing, commissioned by St. Vincent’s Health Australia, describes a common ideology held by Australians towards asylum seekers and refugees is “they are violating our sovereignty”. My bureaucrat, who does not feel refugees are of any use to the Australian economy or society, has adopted this mindset. Thus, research into the effects of detention on vulnerable individuals has strengthened my understanding of the complexity of the situation and my concept has allowed me to convey this research in my major work. Again, you created your concept - your concept doesn't allow anything. You explore the concept, it isn't the gate keeper for exploration. Perhaps it is better to say, "and by exploring my concepts of nationalism and xenophobia in my major work, I can embed the gains of my research." Also,
 I like how you always bring it back to your text. That's very important.


Research: Novels
           My understanding of a child’s voice comes from reading the works of Jodi Picoult [My Sister’s Keeper (2004)], Markus Zusak [The Book Thief (2005)] and Mark Haddon [The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime (2003)]. Yay you used this text! Also it's a major West End production at the moment so if you need more on it you might be able to explore that online. Their writing emphasises the singular, yet unique nature of the child’s voice as well as helping me to understand the tandem structure better. Also, reading these works enables me to apprehend my intended audience, because these authors were able to reach young adults. Furthermore, John Marsden’s Everything I Know About Writing inspired me to undertake a ‘circular ending’ for my short story. Literally love this text Marsden details his favourite endings as “the ones where I get a sense of life continuing: that the story is merely an important episode out of a life, but much has happened before the story begins and more will happen after it ends.” I adapted this form into my own work because I want to manifest the small-scale, yet significant, acceptance of my bureaucrat character from the start to the finish. Yet, the little change is also reflective of the refugee process and intake at this time (2017), illuminating that until there is a change in peoples’ outlook, the story will never truly end.
Furthermore, in her novel My Sister’s Keeper (2004), Jodi Picoult presents a complex, contentious issue from the perspective of seven characters with distinctive voice and mannerisms, giving the reader a more holistic version of events and realistic characters to identify with. This inspired me to convey my issue from four different perspectives, focusing on the experience of refugees and how it looks to an outside observer. Markus Zusak’s The Book Thief (2005) reminded me of the power of literature in “Without words, the Führer was nothing.” This inspired me to consider the strength in literature and make every word mean something. These two fictional pieces helped me decide on my tandem structure to create a realistic depiction of the refugee experience. In addition, I read The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime (2003) by Mark Haddon to assist me in creating an authentic, believable child’s voice. I'm not sure where you want to slide this paragraph in, but I think all of the ideas you express are really important. Perhaps the weakest is the Book Thief's analysis, just because it doesn't talk about plot structure. It might be better to put this in a beginning or ending spot as a summary of your inspo?
 Otherwise I'd leave it out of this part.


Link to Advanced Course
          Furthermore, James Joyce’s short story Eveline (1904) uses flashbacks scattered throughout the piece to clearly outline the relationship between the young woman and her past. This technique allows the reader insight into the shifting characterisation in the mind of the protagonist. I have used this compositional device as inspiration for my Sri Lankan refugee as he recalls “Her eyes were transfixed on the distant seas and her cheeks stained with dried tears. I shook my head, “amma”, I called. No response.” I feel this technique is effective as I am able to depict the common psychosomatic symptoms experienced by many refugees. Thus,  Perhaps "evidently" is stronger because you put forward that you've shown evidence, you remind the marker! the reading of other short stories has widely impacted the development of my major work.

Intent on Further Investigation
          At this particular moment in time, I believe the most effective way forward is to continue writing and focus on depicting realistic characters to my audience. I have found along the way that my intended form often devotes too much attention to the larger concept and not enough to individual characterisation. To resolve this, I believe simple storylines pertaining to few main themes can provide a strong foundation for a unified thematic whole. I believe that (I think...this reads better with "that" but I'm not sure if it's grammatically needed. by continually writing and experimenting, I can create a unique short story that young Australians can engage with. Furthermore, I intend to read Nelson Mandela’s A Long Walk to Freedom (1994) to perceive the feelings and emotions in someone wrongly persecuted and incarcerated.


In conclusion, my major work has been influenced by my research into the construction of a short story, popular young adult fiction, and childrens’ voice in narrative. My theoretical research into the effects of detention on refugees and asylum seekers has allowed me to explore my concept in greater depth, and thus create authentic characters that are affected by the detention conditions and create characters that the reader is able to identify with. Further, my research into the forms and features of short stories has enabled me to implement complex techniques in my major work that ultimately deepen the audience’s connection with the text.

I think the way you link back to the major work all the time is the strongest aspect of your analysis. It really shows- and it's especially strong when you discuss the structure of the work. I think that's your strongest part of the essay. I think you need to adjust the way you discuss all of the texts in terms of the new paragraph. I don't know where you want it to sit so I just threw it in there, but it might be good to weave some of those ideas into existing paragraphs rather than just created a new one with exactly those things in it. You've talked about concept, the process, the major work, the research into form, into plot, and into emotion. I don't see many more things they could expect of you in your statement! I'm interested to know more about the Mandela text - not that you've read it yet, but when it is in your reflection statement at the very end, I'd give that some room if it is as influential as I hope it is for your text! It looks interesting because you've made the connection between two different experiences of persecution.

This is a great report! You should be proud :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: brokenboxes on May 10, 2017, 10:30:09 am
Hey there,
I'm looking for some help, and since I know that this is the place to come for that, I'm here! :)
I have my Ext 2 Report due later this term and our teacher gave us an outline of what to include:
- Introduction
- Details of research undertaken. This should be specific. Expand on three or four significant pieces and their contribution to the development of your MW.
- Details of the meetings and feedback with all of your mentors
- Conclusions
But I really want something more detailed than this follow, are there any or subheadings or pointers of where I should write what like "must include points", that you can give me? Also how much do I write for each of the points above? The word limit is 1500 and I have no idea where I should allocate the words.

Thank you so much for your help!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on May 15, 2017, 05:52:20 pm
Hey there,
I'm looking for some help, and since I know that this is the place to come for that, I'm here! :)
I have my Ext 2 Report due later this term and our teacher gave us an outline of what to include:
- Introduction
- Details of research undertaken. This should be specific. Expand on three or four significant pieces and their contribution to the development of your MW.
- Details of the meetings and feedback with all of your mentors
- Conclusions
But I really want something more detailed than this follow, are there any or subheadings or pointers of where I should write what like "must include points", that you can give me? Also how much do I write for each of the points above? The word limit is 1500 and I have no idea where I should allocate the words.

Thank you so much for your help!


Hey brokenboxes! Welcome to the forums! I hope you find it to be very helpful here. Sorry for the delayed response, I've had a busy few days with Uni. Here is the advice I've given to other students on this topic:

Hey Mary! Glad to have a fellow Ext2er around!

I have a few suggestions for this, some you may have already undertaken:
-Have a look at the marking guidelines for the Reflection Statement. You can see that here. The report is essentially a mini reflection statement in a lot of ways, the report is a way of preparing you for the reflection statement that's yet to come. See it as a polished draft, if you will! So looking at the guidelines for the reflection statement's marking will be useful for understanding the standard they expect.
-Also, have a look at the requirements of the reflection statement as this has a little checklist in there. It shouldn't really raise anything new, but I found it comforting to look at when I created my report so that I knew I had covered everything.
-If you're not sure about the language you're using, the structure...the ideas even, have a look at the State Library's collection of exemplar Reflection Statements here. Admittedly, when I first looked at these I felt like anything I had produced was ridiculously inadequate. Know that there are many ways of expressing things, but you might find some inspiration about what marker's respond well to by checking this out!
-Remember to recognise that the process of research and writing is flawed. You won't seem disorganised if you admit to changing your concept, or anything like that. The raw process of researching and writing is calculated, organic, stressful, creative, and disciplined all at once. You don't just have to draw on organised research, you can admit to organic evolution of your concepts if that is appropriate to your work.
-Don't be afraid to quote sections of your work to show exactly where your ideas have manifested in your major work!

Good luck...drop back any time :)

As for how much you write for each - it's up to you! In Advanced English, I can often suggest how much to spend on an intro, how much to spend on a body paragraph, etc. And to an extent I could do that here, but it wouldn't really be coming from a place of authority, simply because you have so much freedom with this part! You can choose to use subheadings and divide your word count equally, but I personally bounced between different ideas. If you have the time, or if you would like, I've uploaded my own creative as well as my own reflection statement and you can download them for free here. I think the best thing for you to do is to look at the report criteria, but also look at the reflection statement criteria - because essentially that is what you're aiming for in the end, so start moving in that direction when it comes to being meticulous with grammar, considering the progress of your work, and so on!

Hopefully this gives you a hand :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: marcusgrahamm on May 27, 2017, 11:05:57 am
I am doing a critical response into the changing archetype of vampirism in fiction.

Ive completed my major work, but I just want to know how to make the thesis explicitly appear in the introductory phase without being to direct and non-original.

So how do I strategically weave this idea into my introduction ??

Thanks
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Jess.martinuzzo on May 27, 2017, 12:23:28 pm
Hi Elyse!

I was wondering if there is anywhere that I can post my extension 2 major work for marking, like you have for advanced and extension 1? I'd really love it if you could have a quick look over it, however I am a bit concerned about posting it directly on the forum (for plagiarism reasons :( ).

Thanks!

Jess
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on May 28, 2017, 08:15:55 am
I am doing a critical response into the changing archetype of vampirism in fiction.

Ive completed my major work, but I just want to know how to make the thesis explicitly appear in the introductory phase without being to direct and non-original.

So how do I strategically weave this idea into my introduction ??

Thanks

Hey marcus! I'd love to be able to give you advice from experience but I didn't do a critical response. But, I have read a few (although not many). I've noticed a lot of critical responses are still creative in the way they engage or introduce their points. Consider rhetorical questions, arrangement of the words on the page, or even imagery. You're right, your thesis should be clear, but not written in the same way a discovery for AOS thesis would be written. I'm sorry I can't be more help, but if you'd like you can post your introduction and I can tell you if it flows, my initial thoughts, etc :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on May 28, 2017, 08:46:36 am
Hi Elyse!

I was wondering if there is anywhere that I can post my extension 2 major work for marking, like you have for advanced and extension 1? I'd really love it if you could have a quick look over it, however I am a bit concerned about posting it directly on the forum (for plagiarism reasons :( ).

Thanks!

Jess
Hey Jess,
Unfortunately I'm yet to come up with a solution for this. The complications with giving feedback on the major works is: it is far more time consuming and the security of your major work from plagiarism is important. At the moment, the best solution I have is to offer to provide feedback on a specific element of the major work, perhaps up to the word count of about 1000 if you like. This way, you can show me a part that's troubling you, and I can help by looking at an isolated aspect. I think also, it's important to know, I'm not a genius nor an official marker - my feedback for E2 is subjective and based on my own experience as a writer and a reader, so everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt to ensure the integrity of your own work. If you'd like to post a section of your work for feedback, I'd love to help. But as I'm sure you can understand, there's issues on both ends here and I don't yet have the perfect solution. I'd love to read your work, though! So if you would like to take up the offer I'd love to help :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: marcusgrahamm on May 31, 2017, 11:12:49 am
This is my introduction for the Vampire, critical response Question.

Thanks so much!


"His face was a strong, a very strong, aquiline, with high bridge of the thin nose and peculiarly arched nostrils, with lofty domed forehead, and hair growing scantily round the temples but profusely elsewhere. The mouth, so far as I could see it under the heavy moustache, was fixed and rather cruel-looking, with peculiarly sharp white teeth" (Bram Stoker, 1897).
When one hears the word vampire you can potentially create the image of a blood-drinking creature stalking their innocent prey in the night. You may think of a monstrous figure straight out of a horror movie or one of your worst nightmares. Perhaps maybe you imagine Edward Cullen and Bella Swan’s inextricable love story amidst the famous Twilight Saga. Indeed, the vampire for many is a creature of revulsion, fantasy, or even romance but is one to be left in the fictional realms of novels and movies. However, a deeper look into these stories, movies and  fictional pages we come to understand that this undead nightwalker is one of rich metaphors, intertwined with life and death, sexuality and gender, cultural identities, and even diplomatic ideologies. Every contextual manifestation of the vampire draws on its contemporary underlying messages to dictate what it means to be (in)human, an outsider in its respective days society.
J. Halberstam writes “monsters are meaning machines” and through a socio-cultural lens this creature allows us to examine issues of justice, change and identity as we recognise and relate the vampire most familiarly to humankind thus sensualising them as perturbing mirrors for our humanity.   
Across the centuries a rudimentary and frightening description has prevailed as the central vampire archetype. The legend of this monster is one that continues to fascinate and terrify society on a global scale. The vile night stalker that feeds on human blood and kills to quench its thirst has seen extensive changes with the continuum of time. The portrayal of Dracula, illustrated by Bram Stoker in 1897, embodies a character much different to the handsome, romantic, even heroic Stefan Salvatore of the 2010 Romantic Drama TV series “The Vampire Diaries (TVD)”. what one may find most intriguing is witnessing the irony of this thoughtless creature acting as an echoing reflection of today’s modern, westernised culture. No matter the variation, the century, or even the form, all vampire tales have a centralised commonality and theme connecting them - lust. From the lust to kill, to a lust to live, or even a lust to be normalized, the examples are boundless and ever-changing, with every piece of literary work fashioning its own distinct meaning, influenced by their respective context, culture and gender.
Irish author, Bram Stoker compiled a breadth of knowledge on traditional folkloric tales whereby he concocted a character in the late 19th century that can be considered a foremost catalyst in shaping the foundations for this “monster mythology’s” creation. This remains prevalent in vampire literature today. Dracula set the precedence for vampirism to evolve into fictional literature which allowed the archetype not only to become an engrossing, dramatic-horror novel but further dichotomise this creature to symbolise gendered and cultural norms.
Ultimately, as time roles onward the vampire archetype continues to evolve and captivate, despite constantly drawing on the basis of its folkloric and fictitious past.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: ayylmao2600 on July 05, 2017, 07:08:36 pm
Hello  :)

I was curious, if I do 4U English, can my major work be an appropriation?

Ty
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 06, 2017, 10:25:30 pm
Hello  :)

I was curious, if I do 4U English, can my major work be an appropriation?

Ty

Hey there! I see no reason why it couldn't be provided you are within the bounds of appropriation and not plagiarism, obviously! What are you thinking about doing?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Zoe Twist on July 13, 2017, 07:49:37 pm
Hello!
I'm getting towards the end of my project but I'm struggling a little with some of the finishing touches. I'm writing and performing a series of speeches and I was wondering if you had any opinions on whether or not sound effects are a good idea or if you have any advice about how to go about deciding.
Thank you,
Zoë
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 14, 2017, 10:24:13 am
Hello!
I'm getting towards the end of my project but I'm struggling a little with some of the finishing touches. I'm writing and performing a series of speeches and I was wondering if you had any opinions on whether or not sound effects are a good idea or if you have any advice about how to go about deciding.
Thank you,
Zoë

Hey Zoe! I'm really intrigued by this idea. It is definitely something you should consider carefully. I think this has the benefit to intrigue your marker because of your creativity, but also because of your understanding of sounds outside of the speech, and how they can contribute to the overall perception.

So, you won't want to do it if it means you are sabotaging your speech. If it is causing clutter, or confusion, then it's having the adverse reaction to what you want to pull from a marker. IF, you think it enhances the content and delivery of the oral speech, then 100% look into it carefully.

Can you tell me how you are thinking of approaching the sounds? Are they going to be performed by you, or are they coming from a tape of some sort? I'm also curious about what gave you the idea - have you seen it done before? Also, it depends on the way your speech is: more narrative? persuasive? passionate?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: ayylmao2600 on July 14, 2017, 03:49:26 pm
Hey there! I see no reason why it couldn't be provided you are within the bounds of appropriation and not plagiarism, obviously! What are you thinking about doing?

I'm thinking of doing a Sherlock Holmes' adventure. :D
Imitating Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 14, 2017, 04:35:18 pm
I'm thinking of doing a Sherlock Holmes' adventure. :D
Imitating Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

If you think there may be issues of appropriating - this is where your journal becomes very handy. You need to be meticulous in your organisation of your notes, research, ideas, wording, and so on. I loved my journal, it was very therapeutic in my mind! So given the appropriation nature of your response - you need to be extra sensitive to making sure you are being very careful with your research in case anything is under scrutiny :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: ayylmao2600 on July 16, 2017, 02:02:05 am
If you think there may be issues of appropriating - this is where your journal becomes very handy. You need to be meticulous in your organisation of your notes, research, ideas, wording, and so on. I loved my journal, it was very therapeutic in my mind! So given the appropriation nature of your response - you need to be extra sensitive to making sure you are being very careful with your research in case anything is under scrutiny :)

Oh yes, research and working is super important - especially for Sherlock Holmes stories since they were written during the late 1800s. I've been reading the Sherlock Holmes short stories for knowledge and understanding of the context, wording, common tropes etc.tr
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on July 16, 2017, 06:53:35 am
Hi Elyse!!

Can you please have a super quick read of my Major Work and tell me what you think?

Please tell me in general what I need to work on.

I have to hand it in for marking on the 21st of July.

I know that's a tiny amount of time so I completely understand if you are not able to do it by then.


Thank you so much!

bananna
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: Zoe Twist on July 16, 2017, 03:56:06 pm
I really hope I'm doing this right, technology is not my forte! So my speeches are set in 1970s Australia and they are all about social revolution at that time. I have one speech from a moderate right wing perspective about conscription for Vietnam, one speech about 2nd wave feminism and one about Whitlam's rise to power and the removal of paternalism in discussions of native title. 
I think they're all persuasive, at least, that's what I'm going for. I got the idea for using sounds from one of the speeches performed at Showcase a couple of years back which really worked for his purpose.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: michelleh on July 23, 2017, 07:28:47 pm
Hello!

I've already finished my Major Work draft but I always find myself reading the Ext 2 forums for any additional tips, haha!

What I want to know is if there are any do's and don'ts for a creative, suite of short stories and how to push to get an e4 in Ext2? Are there any specific topics students should avoid writing about perhaps (cliche etc) that may bum down the "highly original" criteria of the  major work? How insightful does one need to go into the concept and how clearly it should be linked without making it too obvious? Some common forms and structure of a work that is common etc?

Any tips would be extremely helpful and appreciate!

Thanks so much! :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 24, 2017, 04:13:56 pm
I really hope I'm doing this right, technology is not my forte! So my speeches are set in 1970s Australia and they are all about social revolution at that time. I have one speech from a moderate right wing perspective about conscription for Vietnam, one speech about 2nd wave feminism and one about Whitlam's rise to power and the removal of paternalism in discussions of native title. 
I think they're all persuasive, at least, that's what I'm going for. I got the idea for using sounds from one of the speeches performed at Showcase a couple of years back which really worked for his purpose.

Well, I think that using sound is an excellent way of hybridising the mediums and enhancing the speeches - as long as it does just that, enhances! If it takes away from the speech it's not to the same avail, of course, and you'd be putting effort into something potentially taking marks off!
Hello!

I've already finished my Major Work draft but I always find myself reading the Ext 2 forums for any additional tips, haha!

What I want to know is if there are any do's and don'ts for a creative, suite of short stories and how to push to get an e4 in Ext2? Are there any specific topics students should avoid writing about perhaps (cliche etc) that may bum down the "highly original" criteria of the  major work? How insightful does one need to go into the concept and how clearly it should be linked without making it too obvious? Some common forms and structure of a work that is common etc?

Any tips would be extremely helpful and appreciate!

Thanks so much! :)

I suppose the first thing that comes to mind is that grammar is incredibly important, so consider using a program like grammarly or just being very thorough in looking at the way you've executed everything. As it's occured to me recently, correct grammar is not the only thing to consider, but also how you use grammar to enforce power structures. If you've finished your major work then you might have the time to tinker around with it with these more specific things. This seems to be the best entry-level guide to this if you've never considered it before (and being frank - I've only come to learn about it this year!), so you can look at the way your grammar supports inferior/superior, power/powerless, situations in your text.

In terms of plots to avoid, I suppose anything that's done for shock factor without being artistic, well implemented, or sophisticated, is always going to leave a bad taste in the marker. Your markers are clever people who will follow a bone of your story if you put it in front of them, there's no need to force them to eat it. So I think it's not so much about typical plot structures that I can advise against, but just in general plot-patterns. That's not to say there aren't cliche plots, but I'm always wary to stand against them in E2, only because I've never read an unoriginal E2 plot, so I can't really claim something to be cliche if I've never seen it doubled up!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 24, 2017, 04:45:23 pm
Hi Elyse!!

Can you please have a super quick read of my Major Work and tell me what you think?

Please tell me in general what I need to work on.

I have to hand it in for marking on the 21st of July.

I know that's a tiny amount of time so I completely understand if you are not able to do it by then.


Thank you so much!

bananna

Hey bananna,
Typically 4 days would be enough time but during the trials it just wasn't enough unfortunately. I've given some feedback anyway in the hopes you can take it on for your final submission. I'm just dot pointing some things here rather than bringing your whole major work across.

-In the opening scene in the different font, I think it would benefit from putting the dialogue on its own line and following the traditional grammatical structures of dialogue in this manner. As it sits now, I had to read it through twice to grasp it, because ideally it would be on it's own line (following the old rule of new speaker, new line). This is just my personal opinion about the way I read it.
-I think the change in font but also the change in tone of voice is excellent even on the first page, a strong contrast there which I loved to read.
-I absolutely adore the setting and discussion of the colour orange for the young girl - it's so contextual: sunset on a vast land, girl named Ayesha, called inside at sundown. Just wonderful - such an artful way of embedding context.
-I think there is a typo on page four - Amma instead of Mama?
-I'm finding the change of fonts to not quite be enough when changing personas, at this point. The switch between the youngest voice to the one reflecting one their friends drifting at 15, is confusing. Partially, this is because I was looking at the two fonts trying to work out if they were different or just the same font in a different size, and I was asking myself "wait, has this changed voice?" and I ended up just clicking into each font to see if it was called something different. So I think firstly, these fonts are too similar. But secondly, maybe they need a page break between them in order to be read best?
-Now I'm reading on I realise that Amma wasn't a typo!
-I really like the persona of Campbell the most - I think the font and the sentence structure really suits this character and allows me to access the rigidness of his experience well.
-More on amma - sometimes you're capitalising Amma and sometimes you're not. Just edit through for consistency :)
-Page 9, to me, is an example of the way the fonts are coming together as a commotion with good intentions instead of being a skilful transition between worlds and their collision. Just aesthetically, I think it becomes difficult to read because I'm automatically drawn to assess the whole page for its varying fonts instead of focusing on each part in isolation.
-I think the signature is a wonderful touch, very unique. But, I think that for your final copy you should ensure that the entire letter is all on the same page. Currently, it crosses over the page and can't be viewed in its entirety, but only read fully.
-On page 11, there is this:
Campbell tried keeping his gaze off the filthy walls and blackened floor. He repeated to himself: “get in and get out”. He shuddered at the rows and rows of bunk beds he passed. They lived in shipping containers! Open metallic boxes. Campbell thought, “no wonder a fight broke out…there’s no privacy…nowhere to hide…”


He scanned the inmates, all shuffling from one end of the penitentiary to the other. Most looked like walking corpses. Campbell denied himself any emotional attachment to them. “I can’t waste time feeling bad for them—I’ve a job to get done.”   

I think it would be wonderfully effective if you took out that last quote, and repeated, "get in and get out." It still brings across the same message, but it serves as making Campbell slightly more enigmatic but still very pragmatic. Also it's nice to repeat the short, simple, quote. it really resonates upon repetition.
-Possibly an unintentional repetition on page 16: baba's baba's back?


I think the conceptual basis of your story is incredible and the way you've approached linking the characters is also very impressive. The thing I want to suggest most is that your reconsider the way you're concurrently dealing with all of the voices - perhaps even on a visual level. We aren't taught about it much, but the way the words sit on the page visually has a big impact on the way we read it. So, small things like page breaks and separating the paragraphs with a star, and so on, makes a big difference. You don't want it to be cumbersome to read by too many big breaks and huge flashes, because part of the current appeal is the way the voice changes somewhat emulate the chaos. BUT, i did find it too difficult to stay focused at time with such a variety of font types and sizes on a page, and trying to trigger a new voice for each one (particularly when two of the youth voices are in similar fonts).

You should be very proud of this - you're at the stage now where mechanics of the work are what you're considering. Just the last few details! It's not about the plot or the concept anymore - it's about the execution. And that's a great place to be!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: michelleh on July 27, 2017, 02:26:41 pm
Thanks Elyse for the helpful advice! Will consider checking out the article you recommended :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: waterdancer on August 11, 2017, 07:44:30 pm
Hi Elyse ;D 
So, Major Works are due soon eek! My short story is done and dusted, but I'm yet to completely finish my Reflection Statement. I wanted to ask if perhaps you could take a look at it and see if I'm on the right track please? Still have 305 words to play with, and I will still give it the brutal culling my Major Work received, so if you've got any suggestions I would really appreciate it.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: eyw00400 on August 13, 2017, 11:22:28 am
Hi quick question for formatting!
Is there a specific way of formatting footnotes in the reflection statement?
Currently I just have like the name of the person and the text. Do I need
to do the whole Harvard format for my footnotes?
Also I'm having issues articulating a specific phrase, I'm talking about how my work's thematic focus on identity and etc. makes it a
work that anyone can read. Obviously 'allows anyone to read my story' is way too colloquial so I was wondering if anyone had
a better word or way of phrasing this cos I'm a little stumped.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: waterdancer on August 13, 2017, 01:54:14 pm
Hi quick question for formatting!
Is there a specific way of formatting footnotes in the reflection statement?
Currently I just have like the name of the person and the text. Do I need
to do the whole Harvard format for my footnotes?
Also I'm having issues articulating a specific phrase, I'm talking about how my work's thematic focus on identity and etc. makes it a
work that anyone can read. Obviously 'allows anyone to read my story' is way too colloquial so I was wondering if anyone had
a better word or way of phrasing this cos I'm a little stumped.
Hey there!
In regards to footnotes, all you really need to do is the author, year of publication and title of the text, publishing info if you have it, as well as the chapter, page or line number if relevant. So for one of my footnotes, it looks like this:
"Nietzsche, Friedrich, 1986, “Human, All Too Human: A Book For Free Spirits” Volume 2, Cambridge University Press, Section 122, p. 241"
You save the whole Harvard formatting for your bibliography attached to the entire submission :)
With your rewording, had a little play around. Hopefully something like this can help you out:
"The universal thematic concern of identity extending throughout my text ensures its relevance across all audiences."
Best of luck!  ;D
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: eyw00400 on August 13, 2017, 11:27:38 pm
Hey there!
In regards to footnotes, all you really need to do is the author, year of publication and title of the text, publishing info if you have it, as well as the chapter, page or line number if relevant. So for one of my footnotes, it looks like this:
"Nietzsche, Friedrich, 1986, “Human, All Too Human: A Book For Free Spirits” Volume 2, Cambridge University Press, Section 122, p. 241"
You save the whole Harvard formatting for your bibliography attached to the entire submission :)
With your rewording, had a little play around. Hopefully something like this can help you out:
"The universal thematic concern of identity extending throughout my text ensures its relevance across all audiences."
Best of luck!  ;D
Thanks so much!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on August 14, 2017, 08:54:59 pm
Hi Elyse!


I got my ext 2 back from school (Australians All, the short story about refugees) and I got 36/40, the main comments about syntax and punctuation, also footnoting. I was quite happy with that. However, for my reflection, I got only 8/10. I'd like to raise this mark to at least 9. (please help me achieve this!!!!)

Thank you for your comments about my MW, I'm trying to implement those changes, but I have trials right now!!!!

Attached is my reflection statement. Could you please take a read and leave some comments if you have the time?
My teacher and mentor's main concerns lie in the structure of it. So please please help me in restructuring it.



THANK YOU SO MUCH! :D
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on August 14, 2017, 09:43:05 pm
Hi Elyse ;D 
So, Major Works are due soon eek! My short story is done and dusted, but I'm yet to completely finish my Reflection Statement. I wanted to ask if perhaps you could take a look at it and see if I'm on the right track please? Still have 305 words to play with, and I will still give it the brutal culling my Major Work received, so if you've got any suggestions I would really appreciate it.

Firstly, loved reading this. I can imagine your major work is very creative because the inspiration behind it is very impressive. I've just been referencing a checklist and there's a few things I'll bring up with you. Firstly, you'll need to number your pages. Secondly, I think the discussion of inspiration is exceptional - but your process seems flawless. Each time you read a new text, I don't get the idea that your concept or story was shaped, but it was like everything was researched at the beginning, and then the writing began and it was flawless. The discussion of the way independent research impacted your work as it evolved isn't really strong, so maybe this is an area for improvement for you? Whilst the way you've talked about the texts that influenced you, and the ideas, is good, the connection to the PROCESS of writing and the official outcome isn't clear.

I LOVE the bird quote and discussion at the beginning. Incredibly unique and creative!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: waterdancer on August 15, 2017, 01:55:02 pm
Firstly, loved reading this. I can imagine your major work is very creative because the inspiration behind it is very impressive. I've just been referencing a checklist and there's a few things I'll bring up with you. Firstly, you'll need to number your pages. Secondly, I think the discussion of inspiration is exceptional - but your process seems flawless. Each time you read a new text, I don't get the idea that your concept or story was shaped, but it was like everything was researched at the beginning, and then the writing began and it was flawless. The discussion of the way independent research impacted your work as it evolved isn't really strong, so maybe this is an area for improvement for you? Whilst the way you've talked about the texts that influenced you, and the ideas, is good, the connection to the PROCESS of writing and the official outcome isn't clear.

I LOVE the bird quote and discussion at the beginning. Incredibly unique and creative!

Thanks heaps for taking the time to read through it, I really appreciate it! :)
Added in page numbers now, just an oversight on my part sorry. Right, yep I see what you're saying. So basically make it seem like more of a real process then, how the research shaped the idea over time? Even though the overall basis for my story didn't change drastically from the beginning of the course. I mean, the entire story changed HEAPS with drafts and revising and such, started off writing in first person before abandoning that and taking the third person approach etc. but I preferred to gather the majority of my research before I even put pen to paper, so that I knew I had a strong direction to take the story in. Would that be viewed negatively do you think, or just make my process really clear?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on August 16, 2017, 08:38:44 am
Hi Elyse!


I got my ext 2 back from school (Australians All, the short story about refugees) and I got 36/40, the main comments about syntax and punctuation, also footnoting. I was quite happy with that. However, for my reflection, I got only 8/10. I'd like to raise this mark to at least 9. (please help me achieve this!!!!)

Thank you for your comments about my MW, I'm trying to implement those changes, but I have trials right now!!!!

Attached is my reflection statement. Could you please take a read and leave some comments if you have the time?
My teacher and mentor's main concerns lie in the structure of it. So please please help me in restructuring it.

THANK YOU SO MUCH! :D

Hey bananna!

Here's a few things:
-Your document is in US English, so you've got catalyzed instead of catalysed and utilize instead of utilised. Have a look for the z letters and you'll likely need to change them to an s :)
-A small thing in your intro, I'm reading that your appreciation for words (as inspired by Orwell) brought you to have empathy for the photograph? Just not following the connection between loving words and appreciating visuals.
-"In contrast, using third person to portray Campbell’s hard-headedness creates distance between him and reader, I, increasing the value of his final epiphany. " In this sentence I can't work out what the "I" in the comma splice is for?
-"However, this approach was disadvantageous as I inadvertently wrote all four perspectives in the same style. " In this part, I'd briefly identify that style. Whether it's narrative style, persona style, whatever it may be. Because style could refer to linguistics, your writing process, persona, anything.
-"Experimentation was crucial in the construction of Australians All. Experimenting with font was crucial in the development of Australians All to differentiate my characters. " These two sentences could really just be one, they're quite repetitive.
-"Through an extensive independent investigation, my intentions for undertaking this course have been realised, encouraging me to continue challenging hostile perceptions of refugees. " Maybe, 'continue challenging hostile perceptions of refugees through literature and political discourse' or something like this.
-I think potentially you'd benefit from outlining the stance of Australia on asylum seekers that troubles you most. "Turn back the boats" or "Nauru" or "offshore detention" - which policy is it in direct pertinence to? Because this might be nice at the beginning when contrasted with the anthem. Which, by the way, I adore the title and the way you've included the anthem.

So I think that part of your mark increase will come from the adjustment of language (as above) because the sophistication of your work will increase. Personally, I'm not unimpressed by your structure, and seeing as I don't see a whole lot wrong with it I guess I think I'm not in the best position to help you improve it. I struggled with my own structure - I remember reading some reflection statement's that had managed to put everything (EVERYTHING REQUIRED - y'know, all four million things they want you to talk about), into a perfectly smooth narrative. I ended up pulling mine apart and moving paragraphs around everywhere and then sliding them back into different spots and adjusting the framing sentences. So I suggest speaking to your teacher/tutor and asking them what they think is the downfall of your structure, and then don't be afraid to make big last minute changes to it!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on August 16, 2017, 08:41:01 am
Thanks heaps for taking the time to read through it, I really appreciate it! :)
Added in page numbers now, just an oversight on my part sorry. Right, yep I see what you're saying. So basically make it seem like more of a real process then, how the research shaped the idea over time? Even though the overall basis for my story didn't change drastically from the beginning of the course. I mean, the entire story changed HEAPS with drafts and revising and such, started off writing in first person before abandoning that and taking the third person approach etc. but I preferred to gather the majority of my research before I even put pen to paper, so that I knew I had a strong direction to take the story in. Would that be viewed negatively do you think, or just make my process really clear?

Surely wouldn't be viewed negatively. The people marking your work are writers themselves, or have been writers, and they understand the process of writing as flawed. So, I think that you're actually just fulfilling the criteria in terms of how the concept and writing evolved together to create the end product! :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bundahboy on August 18, 2017, 12:12:18 am
Heyyyy,

Major Works are due tomorrow, so I was wondering whether the stated word limit includes quotations? I'm about a hundred words over the limit for my MW at this point, so I won't have to cut anything if the word count were to exclude quotations. The NESA documentation isn't definitive on this, so any clarification would be useful.

Thanks!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: TheFreeMarketeer on August 18, 2017, 09:20:46 am
Heyyyy,

Major Works are due tomorrow, so I was wondering whether the stated word limit includes quotations? I'm about a hundred words over the limit for my MW at this point, so I won't have to cut anything if the word count were to exclude quotations. The NESA documentation isn't definitive on this, so any clarification would be useful.

Thanks!

I'm not sure. It doesn't include footnotes but that's all I know, sorry.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on August 18, 2017, 10:15:19 am
Heyyyy,

Major Works are due tomorrow, so I was wondering whether the stated word limit includes quotations? I'm about a hundred words over the limit for my MW at this point, so I won't have to cut anything if the word count were to exclude quotations. The NESA documentation isn't definitive on this, so any clarification would be useful.

Thanks!

I don't have definitive clarification on this either. My assumption is that quotations are included in the word limit unless stated otherwise.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: paigek3 on August 18, 2017, 04:36:22 pm
Major works are done!!!! Congrats everyone!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bananna on August 19, 2017, 06:36:25 am
Congratulations, everyone!

We are now 1 unit down!

Hope everyone is happy with what they submitted and do not stress !!


:D
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on August 19, 2017, 09:11:58 pm
Congratulations everyone! What a feeling!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: alessio_speranza on October 09, 2017, 09:17:27 pm
Hi,

What would you say would be some topics or forms of text that should be avoided or at least tread carefully upon?

Thanks
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: paigek3 on October 09, 2017, 09:41:43 pm
Hi,

What would you say would be some topics or forms of text that should be avoided or at least tread carefully upon?

Thanks

When I first read this, my mind wandered straight to two of the topics people say to never bring up at parties - religion and politics

Then I thought about it more and though this could be going on a tangent for an extension 2 project, even books that supposedly “teach” Parents how to raise their children can be a ‘sensitive topic’ because of course every family has their own style and every child has different needs

Performance poetry has become associated with feminism in my eyes of late, because it has been a great form to express ideas and attitudes to what women experience on a daily basis. Though now it gets criticised due to the stigma placed around ‘feminism’

I’ll reply or PM you with more if I can think of any. Nonetheless your major work sounds SO interesting!!!! What form are you thinking of doing it in?

EDIT: WAIT. I just re read your question and are you asking this for your own major work or do you mean what topics and forms you actually should stick away from?! Because I thought the former at first but now I’m second guessing myself lol!!!

If it was the latter, there’s a lot of flexibility on what you can do and what form you did it on. Short stories seem to be most popular. But I’d suggest you try do something super original 

Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: mixel on October 09, 2017, 11:15:48 pm
Hi,

What would you say would be some topics or forms of text that should be avoided or at least tread carefully upon?

Thanks

To give two very specific warnings, speculative fiction and mental illness. Avoid speculative fiction because you can't both set up a deep world and execute a compelling story in the limit of 6000 words, or at the very least it'll be incredibly difficult. Avoid mental illness because the vast majority of people that write on it either misportray it or rely on it as a crutch for a poorly-conceived story, and both will alienate markers.

As for forms, I'd say that nothing is off the table. That isn't to say some forms will serve you better than others, though. It's a bit of a truism, but you'll do best in whatever form you're best in. If you have no experience with drama, a script or screenplay will take much more effort than a short story to produce a work of the same quality. But on the other hand, don't rule anything out just because you think you couldn't do it. HSC markers are paid to be unbiased -- your passion for the concept and form you're doing will affect your mark, but marker preference will not. And teaching yourself how to write in a form you're unfamiliar with would be incredibly rewarding.

I know this isn't what you were asking, and forgive me if this seems contradictory to what I just wrote, but some genres can give you an edge and improve your odds of writing something that will really 'wow' a marker. (Modern) Historical fiction is good for a number of reasons: the realism of the world you write is limited only by your research. History is a 'resolved story' and provides known conclusions for the cultural backdrop of your story, which really helps a reader engage with the world your characters inhabit. History lets you weave your story into a context of social and political developments, for example, Jazz Age New York immediately gives you a set of ideas with which to run such as race, pride and counter-culturalism. By extension, revisiting such a 'resolved story' to appropriate those ideas into a commentary on contemporary issues lets you make some very profound statements. And in the end, that's what an audience loves best -- a piece of fiction that 'says something', and leaves them thinking about it.

Good luck, and if you haven't already decided on doing extension 2, I strongly suggest it  ;D
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bellahoogz on October 12, 2017, 08:05:38 pm
Hi! As this is the first wek of year 12, I am currently in the stage of reading other critical essays and researching a potential topic.
I was wondering how many hours a week you would recommend working on the major work. Since it's not a traditionally 'creative' major, I think the issue will be time rather then writers block (seeing as I am currently doing 15 units).

Thanks!
Bella
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: paigek3 on October 12, 2017, 08:58:49 pm
Hi! As this is the first wek of year 12, I am currently in the stage of reading other critical essays and researching a potential topic.
I was wondering how many hours a week you would recommend working on the major work. Since it's not a traditionally 'creative' major, I think the issue will be time rather then writers block (seeing as I am currently doing 15 units).

Thanks!
Bella

15 units?!! My gosh, what other subjects are you doing? And are you planning to drop down any?

The amount of time I put into my major work differed depending on what stage I was up to, as well as what else was going on at school. For instance when I was just doing background research for my own critical essay, I probably only amounted to 1-2 hours a week as it did not take super long to do that. But when it came to drafting and writing I literally just did it any chance I could get, so on an average this might’ve been like half an hour to an hour every day, but of course that would again depend on how busy I was. During half yearlies and trials I didn’t really do much at all.

What topics have appealed you so far? :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: NowYouTseMe on October 22, 2017, 12:13:24 pm
Hi,
I'm considering doing a critical response to/critique of an author's work, but I was curious as to whether I should narrow my scope further. Also, as it is the first few weeks of the course, I'm doing research into the critical response form, particularly author critiques so I was wondering where I would be able to find good examples of this.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: samanth on October 22, 2017, 09:40:41 pm
Hey,
I have just started the course and I'm still trying to pick my idea. I want to do short story or poetry (but mostly short story) and I wanted to focus on mental illness as a main theme. I've been told that its hard to get good marks when writing about mental illness because you're automatically put into a category of sappy/poorly written.
If I, hypothetically, wrote well and illustrated a good narrative would I still be put in that sappy category or would I, for lack of better words, look better compared to pieces that are actually poorly written.
I am open to changing my idea because of the personal opinions of markers but am really passionate about the topic and just really want some straight forward advice
Thank you so much!!!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on October 23, 2017, 12:18:01 am
Hi,
I'm considering doing a critical response to/critique of an author's work, but I was curious as to whether I should narrow my scope further. Also, as it is the first few weeks of the course, I'm doing research into the critical response form, particularly author critiques so I was wondering where I would be able to find good examples of this.

Hello! Welcome to the E2 thread :) A user named Ella has just answered a very similar question to this on one of the other threads, click this link to see her awesome response. She did a critical response too, and has listed a few ideas about research into form here!

As for your scope - I don't think it needs to be narrowed down further immediately so to say, but you'll find an angle as you research more. What lens will you adapt? You could be obscure and view the author's work critically through the lens of marxism, feminism, etc. When you're ready to be critical, that's when you'll need to zoom in to carve out your response :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on October 23, 2017, 12:22:51 am
Hey,
I have just started the course and I'm still trying to pick my idea. I want to do short story or poetry (but mostly short story) and I wanted to focus on mental illness as a main theme. I've been told that its hard to get good marks when writing about mental illness because you're automatically put into a category of sappy/poorly written.
If I, hypothetically, wrote well and illustrated a good narrative would I still be put in that sappy category or would I, for lack of better words, look better compared to pieces that are actually poorly written.
I am open to changing my idea because of the personal opinions of markers but am really passionate about the topic and just really want some straight forward advice
Thank you so much!!!

Hello and welcome to the forums! Here to give straight forward advice :)

If it is well written - you cannot be put in a category that sees you as poorly written. If it is well written, the piece will be evocative, extraordinary, and your passion will spill through, and it will not be seen as sappy.

You could claim my own short story explored mental illness through the lens of an oedipus complex, but it didn't stop me from getting an E4. So I'm not concerned by your topic matter right off the bat. Your plot and writing style will contribute to the overall reception moreso than just the idea that is centralised :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: mxrylyn on October 27, 2017, 06:54:52 am
What are both your subjective and objective views on doing a series of short stories or recounts of seemingly separate events, about interactions with 1 person, with the last one revealing that they are all related?

For the MW

Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on October 27, 2017, 10:17:26 am
What are both your subjective and objective views on doing a series of short stories or recounts of seemingly separate events, about interactions with 1 person, with the last one revealing that they are all related?

For the MW



That sounds wonderful! Form is a big consideration with E2 and you've thought of a brilliant, unique idea. Execution would take a lot of thinking but it honestly excites me. Great idea :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: mxrylyn on November 03, 2017, 04:51:56 pm
Will it effect my internal marks if I have a teacher who really, really, REALLY doesn't like me?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bundahboy on November 03, 2017, 07:33:07 pm
Will it effect my internal marks if I have a teacher who really, really, REALLY doesn't like me?

Depends on whether he or she is the only teacher involved in the Extension 2 course at your school.

If he or she is, then it could well have an effect. Extension 2 allows for great subjectivity to arise in the assessment of your concept, research, and major work draft (even HSC markers often fervently disagree on the merits of a particular MW). If this teacher is the only person who will be conducting the viva voce and marking your research report and MW drafts, it could be very easy for he or she to simply say that your "concept is unsuitable" or that your research report or MW draft "needs more detail/polish".

If there are multiple teachers involved in the course, however, the possibility of this diminishes. In this case, it is likely that more than one teacher will be involved in the setting and marking of assessment tasks, so any objections your teacher has over the quality of your work will have to be substantiated in the presence of his or her colleague.

In any case (especially the first), it is wise to keep your teacher accountable if you genuinely think beef exists between you and him/her. See if you can get another English teacher to sit in on the viva voce or read your RR/MW Draft (my school did this as a matter of policy even though we only had one E2 teacher). Else, if you think your marks have been compromised, you can always appeal to your Head of Department/Director of Studies. Your teacher will then have to back up any criticism of your work  :P
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: mxrylyn on November 03, 2017, 07:58:55 pm
Hello and welcome to the forums! Here to give straight forward advice :)

If it is well written - you cannot be put in a category that sees you as poorly written. If it is well written, the piece will be evocative, extraordinary, and your passion will spill through, and it will not be seen as sappy.

You could claim my own short story explored mental illness through the lens of an oedipus complex, but it didn't stop me from getting an E4. So I'm not concerned by your topic matter right off the bat. Your plot and writing style will contribute to the overall reception moreso than just the idea that is centralised :)

Thank You! She is the only Ext 2 teacher (As we only have 2 students in the class. But nonetheless I will try my absolute best in the course and be very polite and extra nice.

My only current problem is that as of now, I have no-one to send my practice exam questions and comprehension work to. Would it be overstepping to give this work to a different English teacher within the school for marking?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on November 06, 2017, 06:30:10 pm
Thank You! She is the only Ext 2 teacher (As we only have 2 students in the class. But nonetheless I will try my absolute best in the course and be very polite and extra nice.

My only current problem is that as of now, I have no-one to send my practice exam questions and comprehension work to. Would it be overstepping to give this work to a different English teacher within the school for marking?

I don't think so. It's always a good idea to get plenty of opinions on your work instead of the same person all the time anyway - new eyes pick up new things! So I'd think it's entirely appropriate to ask another teacher for feedback :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: justwannawish on November 13, 2017, 06:54:52 pm
Hey,

Just started EE2, and I'm looking into fictocriticism, but was wondering if AN had any exemplar major works or any readings that were advised for critical? I've read A Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift and was wondering if there were any other essays that were good to discuss
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on November 14, 2017, 04:55:55 pm
Hey justwannawish!

Ella (paigek) is working on some advice for critical responses at the moment. Stay tuned and I'll share it here when it's ready :)

(Anyone else - feel free to jump in during the interim!)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: bundahboy on November 15, 2017, 12:02:38 am
Hey,

Just started EE2, and I'm looking into fictocriticism, but was wondering if AN had any exemplar major works or any readings that were advised for critical? I've read A Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift and was wondering if there were any other essays that were good to discuss

I know of at least 3 people from my school who have done ficto-criticals in the past decade or so, all of whom have somehow gotten 50/50 at the marking centre. Two of these works fixated on Roland Barthes' essay The Death of the Author, which explores the concept of originality. Not sure if you want to head in the direction of postmodernism, but it may be worth a look (especially given E2 markers appear to love anything even tangentially related to po-mo)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: theyam on December 02, 2017, 06:50:30 pm
Hey,

Just started EE2, and I'm looking into fictocriticism, but was wondering if AN had any exemplar major works or any readings that were advised for critical? I've read A Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift and was wondering if there were any other essays that were good to discuss


Hi justwannaish,

I'm doing a critical response for my extension 2 project and I haven't chosen what form my critical response will take. I've never heard of ficto-criticism before, is it possible if you could give me some sort of summary on as to what it is please?

Thank you~
From theyam
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: aalyssa on December 06, 2017, 04:01:11 pm
Hey everyone, does anyone know what I could use for researching into form for scripts besides annotating plays?
Thanks in advance!  :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on December 07, 2017, 10:44:37 am
Hey everyone, does anyone know what I could use for researching into form for scripts besides annotating plays?
Thanks in advance!  :)

Perhaps you could find a book that is actually a "how to" for script writing? It might be a fairly basic resource, but sometimes raking it back to essentials and basics can really help to inspire your process. Also, you could look at resources about words, and economy of words. It doesn't have to be script specific - but the way you can manipulate words is a heavy part of script writing!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: justwannawish on December 07, 2017, 11:05:17 pm

Hi justwannaish,

I'm doing a critical response for my extension 2 project and I haven't chosen what form my critical response will take. I've never heard of ficto-criticism before, is it possible if you could give me some sort of summary on as to what it is please?

Thank you~
From theyam

Hey,
Fictocriticism is an experiment form that designed to challenge the boundaries of form. Essentially, it's an essay from a persona's voice- as the composer, you are able to argue your thesis in the point of view of a composer or character. The biggest challenge is balancing the analytical and creative sides to create a sustained argument imo and also creating an authentic voice. Lmk if you have any specific questions to narrow your concerns
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: theyam on December 10, 2017, 08:26:37 pm
To anyone who hasn't done their Viva Voce:

Tip: Even if your teacher yawns, don't let that get to you at any time! Believe in your concept and just keep going!

From theyam~
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on December 12, 2017, 07:45:02 am
To anyone who hasn't done their Viva Voce:

Tip: Even if your teacher yawns, don't let that get to you at any time! Believe in your concept and just keep going!

From theyam~

How did your viva voce go? :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: theyam on December 12, 2017, 09:44:49 pm
How did your viva voce go? :)

Much better than I expected!! I got an A~
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on December 13, 2017, 12:14:04 pm
Much better than I expected!! I got an A~

Woohooo! What a brilliant start to the E2 course!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: mxrylyn on December 18, 2017, 07:56:11 pm
That sounds wonderful! Form is a big consideration with E2 and you've thought of a brilliant, unique idea. Execution would take a lot of thinking but it honestly excites me. Great idea :)

Hello, I just recently had my Viva voce. I was very excited about doing my series of short stories, but some feedback I got from the viva voce read " Once suggestion that came from the panel was that you have one story. They just though it would flow better as you have a twist at the end of a story, it would be more effective. It you do one story, think about the idea of a split narrative, one in first person, and one In third person"

Do you agree that It is more effective to do 1 narritvie when dealing with an allegory?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on December 19, 2017, 09:20:51 am
Hello, I just recently had my Viva voce. I was very excited about doing my series of short stories, but some feedback I got from the viva voce read " Once suggestion that came from the panel was that you have one story. They just though it would flow better as you have a twist at the end of a story, it would be more effective. It you do one story, think about the idea of a split narrative, one in first person, and one In third person"

Do you agree that It is more effective to do 1 narritvie when dealing with an allegory?


It really depends. My personal preference is to suggest one story with dual narrators because I'm just thinking from my own point of view with writing it that I think it would be easier to bring together cohesion. But this is just me thinking logistically about my own faults and strengths as a writer, which I suggest you do too.

I think you mightn't even know until you start writing. Before you get to 1000 words I'm sure you'll get a better idea of what flows, and some other unforeseen difficulties might even impact the way you decide how to go about this. Getting to 1000 words and changing your approach isn't wasted words or time, either. You can use a lot of those sentences, ideas, or phrasings in your second draft.

How are you feeling about it?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: darcyynic on December 19, 2017, 09:55:19 pm
Hi! I was just wondering what the best way to investigate into form is. I'm doing a short story but don't know what materials to start with. I have a concept in mind for my story but I don't know how to work on it from there. Do you have any advice/ reading material you could suggest? Thank you so much! XOXO
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: theyam on December 19, 2017, 10:07:04 pm
Hi! I was just wondering what the best way to investigate into form is. I'm doing a short story but don't know what materials to start with. I have a concept in mind for my story but I don't know how to work on it from there. Do you have any advice/ reading material you could suggest? Thank you so much! XOXO

Hi~
My teacher gave me this handout called:
'The Shapes of Fiction' from Making Shapely Fiction by Jerome Stern
W.W. Norton and Company
New York & London: 2000

It was quite helpful for me personally even though I'm not even writing a short story (I'm analysing a novel and film) It goes through form techniques that can be applied to your own writing and in my opinion provides some pretty eye opening tips.
Good Luck~
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on December 21, 2017, 02:52:56 pm
Hi! I was just wondering what the best way to investigate into form is. I'm doing a short story but don't know what materials to start with. I have a concept in mind for my story but I don't know how to work on it from there. Do you have any advice/ reading material you could suggest? Thank you so much! XOXO

Hi! I used and highly recommend John Marsden's Everything I know about Writing. I also referenced other short stories that I thoroughly admire. I also read and referenced Edgar Allan Poe's Philosophy of Composition (essay) which is quite old school but it had a few things to mention. I think George Orwell texts like Politics and the English Language and Why I write might also be useful, depending on your angle!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: icedragon66 on December 30, 2017, 10:24:11 am
I know that students don't get the raw marks for their major work, but does our school get them?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: mxrylyn on January 20, 2018, 12:42:24 pm
Would it be too much to have major work taking place over 1.2 days with a large amount of flashbacks and also short anecdotes about the protagonist between the chapters?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: TheFreeMarketeer on January 20, 2018, 01:05:13 pm
Would it be too much to have major work taking place over 1.2 days with a large amount of flashbacks and also short anecdotes about the protagonist between the chapters?

The events in the Catcher in the Rye take place over a course of three days, so this definitely could work.

Thing is, 1.2 days is a very specific number. If you're comfortable with sharing a little more about your concept, plot and so on, maybe it might be easier to judge.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: aalyssa on February 17, 2018, 07:48:00 am
Are viva voces presented like a speech??? I have mine on Monday and I'm not too sure as to how I should go about presenting it.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 19, 2018, 10:07:56 am
Would it be too much to have major work taking place over 1.2 days with a large amount of flashbacks and also short anecdotes about the protagonist between the chapters?

Definitely can work :)

Are viva voces presented like a speech??? I have mine on Monday and I'm not too sure as to how I should go about presenting it.

I guess you could say they are like a speech, but they definitely aren't a speech. Think of it more as an open dialogue, a conversation. You have the ability to direct the viva voce to a certain extent. In my E2 viva, my teacher started with an opening question, and I responded by explaining how I've explored whatever she mentioned in my major work, and then I would make sure I was directing it in a way that I finished the response angling at a point she wanted to talk about. But for the most part, it was pretty much she asks, I respond, she asks, I respond.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: justwannawish on April 14, 2018, 10:32:59 am
Hi,

I have my report due sometime after the Easter break and one of the guidelines we need to answer is why we choose our title. While I finished a rough draft of my work, I have no clue what my title should be. Any ideas on how anyone else came with their own?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on April 14, 2018, 09:16:20 pm
Hi,

I have my report due sometime after the Easter break and one of the guidelines we need to answer is why we choose our title. While I finished a rough draft of my work, I have no clue what my title should be. Any ideas on how anyone else came with their own?

Hey!

I wonder if your teacher would accept that you haven't got a title yet? I think mine would have because with good reasoning, I was still changing direction of my piece and wasn't ready to title.

If not, perhaps this is a good prompt to begin thinking about your title? I thought of my favourite book or story titles and tried to work out what I liked in them. As it turns out, there wasn't really a common denominator. I ended up going for alliteration with layering of meaning. But I went through a lot of titles before I got there!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: theyam on April 28, 2018, 10:05:36 pm
Hi,

I have my report due sometime after the Easter break and one of the guidelines we need to answer is why we choose our title. While I finished a rough draft of my work, I have no clue what my title should be. Any ideas on how anyone else came with their own?

Hello,

I honestly just went through goodreads for inspiration. They have endless pages of quotes written by very good writers. Hope it helps, also do you have any idea on how to structure your report? Because I don't.

From theyam
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: NowYouTseMe on April 29, 2018, 12:12:17 am
Quote
Hello,

I honestly just went through goodreads for inspiration. They have endless pages of quotes written by very good writers. Hope it helps, also do you have any idea on how to structure your report? Because I don't.

From theyam

Hey,
A mate of mine who did a critical response of 4 films took a quote from one of them and re-appropriated it as his title, so perhaps you could use a research text quote as a title too. Also, attached to my post is a document my teacher created to help us structure our report which was due last term.

Hope that helps
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: theyam on April 29, 2018, 08:52:47 pm
Hey,
A mate of mine who did a critical response of 4 films took a quote from one of them and re-appropriated it as his title, so perhaps you could use a research text quote as a title too. Also, attached to my post is a document my teacher created to help us structure our report which was due last term.

Hope that helps

Hey~~

Thank you so much man!

Good luck with yours :)
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: NowYouTseMe on April 30, 2018, 12:28:40 am
i'll report back after I get it back on Tuesday then ahahah
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: mxrylyn on May 20, 2018, 07:26:58 am
Hello, I have just finished my major work Draft.

I'm doing a short story but I noticed that my major work is made up of 15 small chapters and one big one. I was wondering if small chapters like that are looked down upon when marking.🙂
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on June 05, 2018, 07:20:25 pm
Hello, I have just finished my major work Draft.

I'm doing a short story but I noticed that my major work is made up of 15 small chapters and one big one. I was wondering if small chapters like that are looked down upon when marking.🙂

Nothing is looked down upon if it has creative merit! So if it propels your story in a way it couldn't otherwise, or has sectioning significance, then it's definitely going to be a-okay!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: elysepopplewell on June 05, 2018, 07:22:48 pm
Double posting because I don't want this to get looked over:

I'm reading a fantastic book at the moment that has made me think of English Extension 2 so many times.
If you're looking for creative writing exemplars of writing that is:
-Gentle but powerful
-Implicates a unique relationship quickly without being declarative

Then I think you should pick up The Vegetarian by Han Kang. Even just reading 20 pages will surely inspire you because immediately you are welcomed into a unique dynamic with beautiful writing - and given the word limit on E2 pieces, this is really important.
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: theyam on June 10, 2018, 10:35:06 pm
hello

was just wondering how I can post something into the notes section, I received 15/15 for my report and I wouldn't mind sharing.

Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: jamonwindeyer on June 11, 2018, 08:55:41 am

hello

was just wondering how I can post something into the notes section, I received 15/15 for my report and I wouldn't mind sharing.

Legend! If you go to the Notes section itself you’ll see a blue “Add Notes” button on the right hand side next to the filter fields
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: finleystubbs on July 24, 2018, 10:01:01 am
Does anyone know how the reflection statement should differ from the report ?
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: angewina_naguen on August 11, 2018, 08:03:34 pm
Does anyone know how the reflection statement should differ from the report ?

Hey, finleystubbs!

Welcome to the forum  ;D The Reflection Statement, as the name suggests, reflects on the entire Major Work process (including anything else after the Report submission). I largely used my Report for the Reflection Statement but changed a few things here and there, as well as expanding a little more on the concept and whether I believe it has been achieved.  ;D
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: hilaryl on August 19, 2018, 06:36:13 pm
Elysse! i've pmed you a copy of my extension two majorwork and I'd really appreciate it if you could read it and suggest any edits to me as the submisison date in this friday and i'm still in the midst of my trial block. Thankyou so much!!!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: janani2556 on August 21, 2018, 07:57:57 am
In my story, I have a bunch of non-English words which my teachers have told me aren't fully understandable. I don't want to use too many footnotes otherwise the story won't flow as nicely. Any suggestions as to what I could do?

Hope everyone's finishing up on their works for submission this week!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: S200 on August 21, 2018, 08:11:31 am
In my story, I have a bunch of non-English words which my teachers have told me aren't fully understandable. I don't want to use too many footnotes otherwise the story won't flow as nicely. Any suggestions as to what I could do?
If it's within dialogue, you could maybe use it and then translate it through another character?
Like "Good morning kleine mädchen.." and another character retorts "I'm not a little girl" or whatever...
Just a thought
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: angewina_naguen on August 23, 2018, 12:47:58 pm
In my story, I have a bunch of non-English words which my teachers have told me aren't fully understandable. I don't want to use too many footnotes otherwise the story won't flow as nicely. Any suggestions as to what I could do?

Hope everyone's finishing up on their works for submission this week!

Hey, janani2556!

I agree with S200's suggestion above about making the translation subtle if you want to avoid using footnotes. However, for my Major Work, I used a lot of musical jargon and Italian words which I only footnoted the definitions and placed the citations in my bibliography. This way, it won't disrupt the aesthetic of the Major Work so much but it will still be easy for your marker to refer to any definitions/translations instantly if need be  ;D

Good luck for the submission, everyone!

Angelina  ;D
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: seushie on January 18, 2020, 06:09:12 pm
Hi,

I'm in Year 12 and doing EX2.

I am doing a critical response but I am not sure how to format it and how to break up the response?
Should it be divided into three parts? I just want to know the general structure, that's all haha~

THanks!
Title: Re: English Extension 2 Question Thread
Post by: angewina_naguen on January 19, 2020, 08:21:42 pm
Hi,

I'm in Year 12 and doing EX2.

I am doing a critical response but I am not sure how to format it and how to break up the response?
Should it be divided into three parts? I just want to know the general structure, that's all haha~

THanks!

Hey, seushie!

Welcome to the forums  ;D Great to hear that you're doing a critical response for your Major Work :D In answer to your question, how you choose to format and structure it is entirely up to you. The critical response doesn't have to be structured like a typical English essay with three distinct bodies/sections; you're welcome to divide it up however you wish so long as it flows and develops as you read it. A girl in my cohort did hers in four parts which worked out nicely for her, whereas I've read an E4 example which only had two.

If you really need to get a start on structure, I think three sections is a logical choice. My poetry for Ext 2 had three "phases" which transitioned conceptually into one another. It also worked for my PIP (which I think is the closest thing to a critical response in terms of structure); I had my introduction+log, my central material (which had four mini chapters) and my conclusion. This helped me guide my response and signpost effectively throughout the writing process where I was up to and what I was aiming to achieve in each section. This could well be a good starting point and if you feel like you need an extra section, if you have to divide a section into two or that you should take out a whole section entirely, it'll be something you navigate through as it arises!

Otherwise, my only other piece of advice is to try and think about how structure can support and reflect your conceptual aims with the Major Work. In my case, I chose to have my poetry in three parts to signal the three different eras of music and literature I was drawing from (Baroque, Classical and Romantic) which tied in with my Major Work's ideas surrounding time and progression. Your decision to format it in a certain way can be justified in your Reflection Statement as a creative choice that enhances the premise and overall experience of your critical response for the reader :) Hope that helps and let me know if you have any further questions!

Angelina  ;D