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HSC Stuff => HSC English Stuff => HSC Subjects + Help => Area of Study (Old Syllabus) => Topic started by: elysepopplewell on February 08, 2016, 05:38:39 pm

Title: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 08, 2016, 05:38:39 pm

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The Area of Study requires that students from both Standard and Advanced English independently select a text that is relevant to the concept of discovery. If you don’t like your prescribed text, this is the perfect time for you to change the pace of AOS and bring some passion into it. I've put together some frequently asked questions and some tips for you to help you find the best ORT for you! (ORT = Other Related Text. As in, "Answer this question using your prescribed text and one other related text)

Can it be on the HSC reading list?

   You’ll hear mixed answers to this question. You may be advised not to choose a text that you study in another module (or a text that you could have studied, but your class selected another option) because it looks lazy to a marker. We talk about studying smarter and not harder, so how could this be?! If you are advised this, it is probably because your teacher or mentor doesn’t want you to be penalised incase a marker does bring this mentality that you were being lazy into their marking. However, this should not happen, because the Board of Studies says “Students will not be disadvantaged by using a text from the Prescribed Texts list, provided it is relevant to the module/elective concerned.” For the source, click here. So, there you have it. You have ultimate freedom in selecting your ORT.

Think back to preliminary…

   Now let’s think about studying smarter and not harder. A text you studied in the preliminary course should be well analysed and dissected. Ideally, you could take this text, put your discovery hat on, and in fact discover that the perfect ORT is sitting under your nose and all prepped and ready for use. You might have to review the text again with the idea of HSC in mind, but also think about the merit it has against your prescribed text. You know what? Think further back than preliminary! You might have been exposed to a text that has really stuck with you since Year 9 or 10. You just need to ask: Is this text up to HSC standard? Can I talk about this text in a way more sophisticated manner than what I did in junior years?

If you do Extension 1 English…

   Think: Can you double up on an ORT here? Let’s see if we can cut out some leg work. It will probably be easier to match your AOS ORT to your Extension 1 ORT. You’ll find that nearly every text has an element of discovery in there – but does every text have the qualities of a romanticism text? No. Is every text set in the Cold War era? No. Early on in the year, it’s also totally fine to use separate ORTs because you may want to experiment! As you move through the year, think “okay…can I save some memory space for something else and just use the same ORT twice?”

Choose a text for its literary qualities!

   On the surface, a marker will probably be more impressed by the introduction that mentions Charles Dickens’ Great Expectations than the introduction that references Twilight. Of course, what you do with the text matters a lot more than what the general perception of the text is. However, there is a reason that texts from the literary canon or texts from renowned authors/producers/poets are respected! These are the texts that carry textual integrity and themes that transcend time. If Twilight is read by teenagers in 100 years’ time, knock on my grave and prove me wrong. Tackling a more sophisticated text has much to offer in terms of analysis. The chances are that the sophisticated text will be full of techniques and brilliant textual evidence that is entirely relevant to what you need to say!

Choose a text you actually like!

   If your prescribed text makes you want to stick pencils in your eyeballs then it sounds like you need a change of pace. Else, you could love your prescribed text and you don’t want to ruin your good AOS vibes with a bad ORT. Find a text that you like. For some people, this is easier said than done. If you’re doing English because you have to and not because you want to, you may need to look a little harder. Consider the eulogy belonging to a late hero of yours. Consider the last film that left you really thinking.

   You will find a lot more enjoyment in digging deep for techniques if you’re using a text that genuinely excites you. The moment when you realise a wonderful motif in an integral moment of discovery in the text, you should feel the weight lift off and you’ll float into a happy paradise state for a moment.

   Don’t torture yourself by choosing a sophisticated text if you don’t love it. When you feel positively about the text, it will show in your expression of the way the text works in an essay. Using Dickens for the sake of his name will backfire!

Think about the ORT’s form…

A film/documentary:
   People will be deterred from using a film as an ORT because they don’t feel comfortable talking about filmic techniques. Students also sometimes find it difficult to navigate using “textual evidence” because it isn’t as simple as identifying the part of a text with a quote, because dialogue isn’t always present. However, for some students, filmic techniques are their expertise! A film also makes for quick viewing. This is the advantage that a film has over a novel, for example. If you can’t make the time in your life to sit down and flick through pages of a book in the name of finding an ORT – maybe turn to the screen!

A poem:
   A poem usually will take even less time than a film for the initial viewing. However, you will find that you need to read the poem many times to fully grasp everything it offers – and even then you may not “discover” everything it expresses. The work of Seamus Heaney offers a lot in terms of poetic discovery, if you’re looking for a poet to work with. Poems can be highly regarded as a text because of their complexity and economy of words.

A short story:
   These are my preferred types of ORTs. The reason behind this is similar to poetry, the economy of words is strong and they are quick to read. I preferred short stories to poetry because I was more comfortable with the techniques and conventions of a short story than I was with poetic mechanics. There are some wonderful short stories written by renowned authors – try Tim Winton and Margaret Atwood. These two authors are well-received by those in the literature-know and they also create gripping works (bonus for you!).

Speech/Eulogy:
   Another form again, speeches and eulogies present the perfect ORT for a student who is more analytical than creative. The public speakers amongst you will probably excel by using these. Have a look at the famous words from Martin Luther King, Winston Churchill, Susan B Anthony and J F Kennedy.

Novel:
   Don’t be afraid of the length – novels have a lot to offer. Novels potentially give you a lot of scope because if their length. So when you put the length of the text next to the literary merit it has (provided that your ORT isn’t 50 Shades of Grey – sorry not sorry) then you’ve given yourself a lot to work with! Great Expectations by Charles Dickens has a lot to offer in terms of discovery. It isn’t exactly a quick read – but can be very rewarding!

How does it sit with the rubric?

   First up, you’ll need a copy of the document which you can find by clicking here. Run through the rubric and tick which parts apply to your text. If you find that your text hardly touches the surface of the rubric, you need to look for another text. If you find that your text covers more than half of the rubric – you have set yourself up for success!

How does it compliment a discussion involving your prescribed text?

   This is the stage you need to think about once you have your text and you’re just looking to confirm that it is foolproof. Put your prescribed text and your ORT next to each other. Are there similarities? Direct contrasts? Try this:

   Draw up a table with three columns. The first column is titled with your prescribed text, the middle will contain the rubric and the third will have your ORT. Run the rubric down the middle column in broken up sections like I have done here. Then, find textual evidence for each part of the rubric in both texts. This way, you already have a killer study note table at your disposal, but you also see where each text has some gaps.

   If there is a gap in one side but not the other, this is ok! If your prescribed text was a planned discovery, but your ORT wasn’t and was instead evoked by curiosity – that’s great! You’ve set yourself up for a balanced essay where you can choose how much you want to agree or disagree with the question.

   I’ve made a template for you to follow this structure of study notes if you wanted. I really recommend looking at the template and then either using it, or altering it to suit how you study! You can find it by clicking here!

To prepare one…or two…

   Trust me, every single year it is posted on HSC Discussion Group or frantically asked in English class “WHAT IF THEY ASK FOR TWO OTHER RELATED TEXTS!!???!!!!” Settle, petals.

I’ve done a bit of a BOSTES throwback to find the answer to this one. From 2009-2015, they have only asked for ONE related text. Some years they have said “at least one” and other years they have just said “one.” If they ask for at least one, choosing one is just fine and is not viewed as the lazy option at all. In 2008 they asked for two. Between 2004 and 2007, they had a bit of a trend of asking for one related text and one from the “stimulus book.” That's old school. So in the last 11 years - they have only once asked for two ORTs. Is it likely to happen to you? The trend says no. Do BOSTES love to throw a spanner in the works? Yes. Does anyone really know what that exam paper is going to ask of you? Very few. What can you do? Prepare as best as you can.

(http://s.quickmeme.com/img/b9/b933714a84be46d39a5f6abf626ba0f0593bb7f8be40a5b224ec23e0f80c3c99.jpg)

   Prepare one, really well, really thoroughly. For me, it was Tim Winton’s Distant Lands. I knew it back to front and I had read the short story so many times that I could quote parts of the text that I wasn’t even using for textual evidence. Use this ORT for all of your submitted essays to your teacher throughout the year. If you’ve selected your ORT well, it will be applicable to just about every question thrown your way.

   The risk: You could be asked for two ORTs. The cheat way to fix this in an exam? Possibly use an unseen text as your other ORT. However, I don’t recommend this. I do recommend finding discoveries in your other prescribed texts if you can. BOSTES says this is fine to do as long as it is relevant to AOS. Or, you can just bite the bullet and prepare another ORT entirely. Having two ORTs up your sleeve isn’t such a bad idea, even if they only ask for one ORT in the HSC exam. The reason being, you could find that one text is stronger than the other for a section in the syllabus. This way, you have total choice about which one you want to whip out in the exam and slap against the question.

Have you got any questions?

   Make an account if you haven’t already so that you can comment below any questions. If you are looking for advice on an ORT, comment below and hopefully a peer has a great idea about that text to help you out! Or if you have found an awesome ORT, post it down below to see if anyone else is as well and then we can build up a discussion about different texts so that everyone wins!

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: cherryred on February 14, 2016, 01:37:24 pm

Hi,

I did Robert Gray's poems for AOS last term but I am still not sure as to what related text to actually use for my trials/HSC. Advice would be really appreciated :)

Also what related text would work for these different poems:
'Meatworks' and 'Flames and Dangling wire'

I am really struggling to find a related text that links with the poems of my prescribed text.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 17, 2016, 09:08:08 am

Quote from: cherryred on February 14, 2016, 01:37:24 pm

Hi,

I did Robert Gray's poems for AOS last term but I am still not sure as to what related text to actually use for my trials/HSC. Advice would be really appreciated :)

Also what related text would work for these different poems:
'Meatworks' and 'Flames and Dangling wire'

I am really struggling to find a related text that links with the poems of my prescribed text.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks :)

Hey Cherryred! This took me a few days to reply to because I was on the hunt for my very last suggestion of ORTs...I couldn't find it anywhere haha.

I have just made myself mildly familiar with your AOS prescribed text via google :P I love that he's an Aussie poet (and even kind of local - NSW!) I'm a big fan of Tim Winton's short stories for ORTs because of their simplicity, textual integrity and their subject matter. Tim Winton offers a lot in terms of discovery in his stories too. I used Distant Lands which can be found in the anthology called "Minimum of Two" but also his short story "Neighbours" which is found in the anthology "Scission." I recommend these texts to all AOS students, but you particularly because it seems like your prescribed text has a lot to do with minimalism, Australiana, landscapes, minutiae? Which Winton does similarly, but in an entirely different way. So you'll be able to make some really nice comparisons and also draw some similarities. There's ideas in these two texts specifically about stereotypes, disillusionment, changing perspectives and transformative discoveries.

Another suggestion, which begins in a slaughterhouse which is why I'm thinking directly of Meatworks, is called "Big World" which is found in "The Turning" anthology but also as a short film (both are very awesome). It is also a Tim Winton one, but the film version really makes it quite different and definitely something special. A few of my classmates used it after we had a look at it in class.

Hopefully this helps! :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: nibblez16 on March 03, 2016, 05:18:54 pm

Hi,

I am doing Robert Frost poems for my AOS. I have chosen 3 related texts. One is an image of the 'Wanderer Above the Sea of Fog', another one is a poem 'Sky High' and last is a short film 'The Scarecrow', are they suitable for my AOS?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on March 04, 2016, 09:09:36 am

Quote from: nibblez16 on March 03, 2016, 05:18:54 pm

Hi,

I am doing Robert Frost poems for my AOS. I have chosen 3 related texts. One is an image of the 'Wanderer Above the Sea of Fog', another one is a poem 'Sky High' and last is a short film 'The Scarecrow', are they suitable for my AOS?

Hey! These all look like great ORTs. The visually text is interesting. It is composed by a German man many many years ago - make sure you reference that! That kind of thing lifts the merit of the work. Do you feel comfortable analysing visual texts? Many don't. However, if this is your expertise, you should definitely, definitely go for it.

As for the poem, again, awesome. Nothing wrong here. However, some students prefer to vary the text types in their essay. So, your prescribed text is poetry, do you want your ORT to be the same? The reason behind this is, when you study a poem and a novel, for example, you express your understanding of different text types, thus diversifying your displayed skill set.

As for The Scarecrow: this is my favourite! I hadn't seen any of your texts before you messaged and I truly, truly love The Scarecrow. It shares such a great message and there is so much to analyse. You can definitely make this work for discovery!

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: WLalex on March 17, 2016, 09:43:03 pm

Hi, this is really helpful thanks!

For AOS we are studying the film Life of Pi and i was wondering what your opinion on my two related texts are: Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk and The Kite Runner by Khalid Hosseini (both novels as thats my favourite). I like both equally and if I'm honest, its Life of Pi i don't really like and struggle the most to make connected haha.
So, my teachers say that Fight Club is slightly better so I've done more prep for that, what do you think?
Thanks :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on March 18, 2016, 02:03:10 pm

Quote from: WLalex on March 17, 2016, 09:43:03 pm

Hi, this is really helpful thanks!

For AOS we are studying the film Life of Pi and i was wondering what your opinion on my two related texts are: Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk and The Kite Runner by Khalid Hosseini (both novels as thats my favourite). I like both equally and if I'm honest, its Life of Pi i don't really like and struggle the most to make connected haha.
So, my teachers say that Fight Club is slightly better so I've done more prep for that, what do you think?
Thanks :)

Thanks!
I'm not well familiar with either text. However, a quick google search tells me that they both have merit. I suggest this: You find the one that has similarities and dissimilarities that you can link in likeness or opposites to the prescribe text. For example, perhaps in both the prescribed and the ORT, an intellectual discovery is undertaken. But perhaps in one text, your protagonist undertakes a planned discovery process, and in the other text there is an unplanned discovery. This enables you to have a really rich discussion about the way discovery works, and that it is fluid that it can be experienced differently!
Of course, seeing as they both have literary merit, I would choose whichever I liked better. But, because you like them equally, you should focus on what will give you the richest discovery exploration in an essay :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: onepunchboy on July 19, 2016, 04:01:01 am

Hello for my aos essay im doing robert frosts poem "stopping by woods on a snowy evening" and "after apple picking" , do you know any really good related texts for these? Ty

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: zatos99 on July 19, 2016, 07:36:24 pm

Hi,
Not a serious question (or maybe it is), but what are your thoughts on going into the exam without a related text, analysing the shit out of the unseen text and just use that. It does seem to simple and of course you aren't going to have enough time to fully analyse the text, but why else?
Keen to hear what you have to say,
Zatos99 :o

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on July 19, 2016, 07:41:02 pm

Quote from: zatos99 on July 19, 2016, 07:36:24 pm

Hi,
Not a serious question (or maybe it is), but what are your thoughts on going into the exam without a related text, analysing the shit out of the unseen text and just use that. It does seem to simple and of course you aren't going to have enough time to fully analyse the text, but why else?
Keen to hear what you have to say,
Zatos99 :o

I have heard of this idea before!!  ;D I don't know where BOSTES stands on it to be honest, though I've never read anything saying you can't do it...

The positives of doing this are pretty obvious. Less to learn, less to stress about pre-exam, etc. The other huge benefit is that the unseen text is virtually guaranteed to work well with the essay question, since Paper 1 usually follow some sort of common theme, at least loosely. The related text becomes guaranteed quality, which is fantastic  ;D

The negatives are obvious too. Less time to analyse, you have to be very good at thinking on the spot. And I have no idea what the official stance on it is, I'd love to have a chat with BOSTES about it!

All that said, my personal opinion would be not to do it, but it's a very interesting idea indeed!  ;)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 19, 2016, 08:13:01 pm

Quote from: zatos99 on July 19, 2016, 07:36:24 pm

Hi,
Not a serious question (or maybe it is), but what are your thoughts on going into the exam without a related text, analysing the shit out of the unseen text and just use that. It does seem to simple and of course you aren't going to have enough time to fully analyse the text, but why else?
Keen to hear what you have to say,
Zatos99 :o

I'd only do this if they asked in the exam for two related texts and you've only prepared one (unlikely but possible)! The more time you have to prepare, the better!

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: zatos99 on July 19, 2016, 09:05:21 pm

Quote from: jamonwindeyer on July 19, 2016, 07:41:02 pm

I have heard of this idea before!!  ;D I don't know where BOSTES stands on it to be honest, though I've never read anything saying you can't do it...

The positives of doing this are pretty obvious. Less to learn, less to stress about pre-exam, etc. The other huge benefit is that the unseen text is virtually guaranteed to work well with the essay question, since Paper 1 usually follow some sort of common theme, at least loosely. The related text becomes guaranteed quality, which is fantastic  ;D

The negatives are obvious too. Less time to analyse, you have to be very good at thinking on the spot. And I have no idea what the official stance on it is, I'd love to have a chat with BOSTES about it!

All that said, my personal opinion would be not to do it, but it's a very interesting idea indeed!  ;)

Thanks for the response. I'm not going to do it, probably only if i am asked to refer to two texts. But as a maths minded person, like Jake, i feel that if there is anyway to make English easier, this might be something to consider.

Quote from: elysepopplewell on July 19, 2016, 08:13:01 pm

I'd only do this if they asked in the exam for two related texts and you've only prepared one (unlikely but possible)! The more time you have to prepare, the better!

Yeah that's where my original idea came from, when you said it at the study day haha!

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 19, 2016, 09:55:22 pm

Quote from: zatos99 on July 19, 2016, 09:05:21 pm

Yeah that's where my original idea came from, when you said it at the study day haha!

Yasss! Thanks for coming to it! Glad you could take something away from it, even if it was how to find an English short cut ;)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: Scarlet on July 21, 2016, 06:32:16 pm

Hey all, my trials are just around the corner and I need to find related texts that work well for both AOS: Discovery- The Tempest and Mod C: Representing People & Landscapes- Judith Wright.

Any ideas on which related texts would work well ?

I'm thinking of doing a picture book: The Island by Armin Greder for my main related text but I can't seem to find aspects of the rubric that relate explicitly to each module.

Thanks in advance !!  :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on July 21, 2016, 07:42:32 pm

Quote from: Scarlet on July 21, 2016, 06:32:16 pm

Hey all, my trials are just around the corner and I need to find related texts that work well for both AOS: Discovery- The Tempest and Mod C: Representing People & Landscapes- Judith Wright.

Any ideas on which related texts would work well ?

I'm thinking of doing a picture book: The Island by Armin Greder for my main related text but I can't seem to find aspects of the rubric that relate explicitly to each module.

Thanks in advance !!  :)

That picture book is definitely a potentially great ORT, there are a heap of resources for it online, which indicates that it's been used before with success  ;D

I didn't do Discovery, but I know Elyse would suggest Distant Lands - Tim Winton. It is a very powerful ORT, might be worth a look?

For Module C, I used V for Vendetta against Shakespeare's Tragedy of Julius Caesar. The key to that was that both were fairly political, but that might not match here. Hopefully someone can be of more help!

You should flick through our Module Marking and AoS Marking Threads to see what other people have used! It might give you some inspiration  ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 21, 2016, 11:38:03 pm

Quote from: Scarlet on July 21, 2016, 06:32:16 pm

Hey all, my trials are just around the corner and I need to find related texts that work well for both AOS: Discovery- The Tempest and Mod C: Representing People & Landscapes- Judith Wright.

Any ideas on which related texts would work well ?

I'm thinking of doing a picture book: The Island by Armin Greder for my main related text but I can't seem to find aspects of the rubric that relate explicitly to each module.

Thanks in advance !!  :)

The Island definitely works for discovery, for a moment there it was almost my related text. I think it is limited though, for Module C specifically. For discovery, it works on a number of levels. With trials around the corner, you want to be comfortable that your selection is rich on surface value, seeing as you don't necessarily have weeks and weeks of time to analyse the text. As Jamon suggested, definitely look at the other threads (Jamon linked to them) and see how other people have dealt with their own related texts :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: Scarlet on July 24, 2016, 08:16:19 pm

Quote from: jamonwindeyer on July 21, 2016, 07:42:32 pm

That picture book is definitely a potentially great ORT, there are a heap of resources for it online, which indicates that it's been used before with success  ;D

I didn't do Discovery, but I know Elyse would suggest Distant Lands - Tim Winton. It is a very powerful ORT, might be worth a look?

For Module C, I used V for Vendetta against Shakespeare's Tragedy of Julius Caesar. The key to that was that both were fairly political, but that might not match here. Hopefully someone can be of more help!

You should flick through our Module Marking and AoS Marking Threads to see what other people have used! It might give you some inspiration  ;D

Thank you ! I'll do that right now  :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: Scarlet on July 24, 2016, 08:18:08 pm

Quote from: elysepopplewell on July 21, 2016, 11:38:03 pm

The Island definitely works for discovery, for a moment there it was almost my related text. I think it is limited though, for Module C specifically. For discovery, it works on a number of levels. With trials around the corner, you want to be comfortable that your selection is rich on surface value, seeing as you don't necessarily have weeks and weeks of time to analyse the text. As Jamon suggested, definitely look at the other threads (Jamon linked to them) and see how other people have dealt with their own related texts :)

Thank you,  also do you by any chance have notes that you previously wrote for The Island that I could use as a guide for my own ?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: marynguyen18 on July 24, 2016, 10:05:50 pm

What would be a good ORT for The Tempest for AOS other than Heart of Darkness by Conrad? And what would be a good related text for Wag The Dog for Mod C?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 24, 2016, 10:37:17 pm

Quote from: Scarlet on July 24, 2016, 08:18:08 pm

Thank you,  also do you by any chance have notes that you previously wrote for The Island that I could use as a guide for my own ?

I'd love to say yes! But the study we did on it was as a class and there was a powerpoint our teacher showed us, which I no longer have access to because it was on the school drive :( :( :(

From memory, there are a few bits and pieces of analysis floating around on the internet!

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 24, 2016, 10:40:21 pm

Quote from: marynguyen18 on July 24, 2016, 10:05:50 pm

What would be a good ORT for The Tempest for AOS other than Heart of Darkness by Conrad? And what would be a good related text for Wag The Dog for Mod C?

Hey there!

Have a look here for Mod C, to see what related texts people have used. I used Distant Lands for People and Landscapes, its a short story written by Tim Winton.

As for the AOS - a bunch of people study The Tempest, so you might get a few ideas from looking at the essay making thread over here! If it's any help...my ORT for AOS was also Tim Winton's short story, Distant Lands.

:)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: kmorritt on July 28, 2016, 01:32:50 pm

Hi, im just confused when the teachers say it needs to be a good related text, what do they mean? Is it ok if we choose a movie that was made recently?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: sudodds on July 28, 2016, 05:18:29 pm

Quote from: marynguyen18 on July 24, 2016, 10:05:50 pm

What would be a good ORT for The Tempest for AOS other than Heart of Darkness by Conrad? And what would be a good related text for Wag The Dog for Mod C?

Hey! I am doing both the Tempest and Wag the Dog as well! If you are still looking for related texts I would strongly recommend The Perks of Being a Wallflower for discovery, and Candide by Voltaire for Module C (Though it could probably work really well for discovery also). They all worked really well for me, my discovery essay getting 18/20, and my Wag the Dog 20/20.

Here are some of the ways you can link Perks of Being a Wallflower to the Tempest (though these are only a few)
Theme of forgiveness
Theme of the discovery of a new world
Them of the discovery of secrets

Key techniques: Style (REALLY IMPORTANT), Allusions to other texts that centre around discovery, and Irony.

Here are some ways to link Candide to Wag the Dog:

USE OF SATIRE
Theme of the Manipulation, utilisation and commodification of symbols and ideas
Theme of the manipulation of a naive population by a minority group

Key techniques use: Satire (obviously), Irony and Metaphor (Candide the character is a metaphor for society during the Enlightenment).

Hope this helped!

[/list]

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: skysailingaway on July 28, 2016, 08:00:38 pm

Heyy!
I'm doing 'spirited away' as my related text for 'The Tempest' in my AOS.
Is this a good match?
Do you think it will work, would i need to retell a bit of the plot in the paragraphs?
-how would i approach this?

Plus, i'm thinking of doing 'Guernica' by pablo picasso, for Mod C

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on July 28, 2016, 08:38:02 pm

Quote from: kmorritt on July 28, 2016, 01:32:50 pm

Hi, im just confused when the teachers say it needs to be a good related text, what do they mean? Is it ok if we choose a movie that was made recently?

Sudodds ideas for a related are awesome, massively support them  ;D

A 'good related text,' in my opinion, has the following characteristics:

- An abundance of literary/filmic techniques
- A clear conceptual focus, or more than one
- The text has been composed for a more meaningful reason than "to entertain," that is, it's not a mega mainstream movie that was made to make money. It should have had some greater message. Some mainstream movies do this decently well, but often the super mainstream stuff (Transformers, Fast and Furious, etc) just aren't conceptually rich enough. For that reason, they should be just a little bit "indie", if that's the right word (honestly no idea lol)  ;)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on July 30, 2016, 01:42:47 pm

We have set up a brand new ATAR Notes book club! Feel free to join by clicking on the link here and we can chat about your recently read books :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: conic curve on August 08, 2016, 10:02:34 pm

So I'm in a rush to decide on my related text because my preliminary yearlies are coming up in a few weeks

My prescribed text(s) are poems for the AOS physical journeys (not shrzynecki poems but other miscellaneous poems)

I'm having trouble deciding the following between Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Peter Shrzynecki: immigrant chronicle (I don't know whether or not this is going to make a good related text since I'm currently doing poems as a prescribed text), Lionheart or Rabbit proof fence. Could someone here please help me choose between the following

Thanks for the help guys :D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on August 09, 2016, 12:30:36 am

Quote from: conic curve on August 08, 2016, 10:02:34 pm

So I'm in a rush to decide on my related text because my preliminary yearlies are coming up in a few weeks

My prescribed text(s) are poems for the AOS physical journeys (not shrzynecki poems but other miscellaneous poems)

I'm having trouble deciding the following between Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Peter Shrzynecki: immigrant chronicle (I don't know whether or not this is going to make a good related text since I'm currently doing poems as a prescribed text), Lionheart or Rabbit proof fence. Could someone here please help me choose between the following

Thanks for the help guys :D

I've not read the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, but I'm sure it would be a good choice. Immigrant Chronicle is a fantastic choice, very conceptual, and already studying poetry then it will be easy to link. There are heaps of resources available too ;D

The two moves are good too, though I've not studied them in depth I've seen them and both work well for Discovery conceptually. I'd personally be going for Immigrant Chronicle ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: conic curve on August 09, 2016, 10:55:22 am

Quote from: jamonwindeyer on August 09, 2016, 12:30:36 am

I've not read the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, but I'm sure it would be a good choice. Immigrant Chronicle is a fantastic choice, very conceptual, and already studying poetry then it will be easy to link. There are heaps of resources available too ;D

The two moves are good too, though I've not studied them in depth I've seen them and both work well for Discovery conceptually. I'd personally be going for Immigrant Chronicle ;D

Hm, I was thinking of Rabbit Proof fence (I've seen it before but forgot what happened in the movie) but analysing films would be a pain because there's so many things you'll need to talk about

If I did poems then I'd have trouble composing an essay on the sport so I'd rather do related text which is easier to integrate in an essay

If I did lionheart or Adventures of Huckleberry Finn then I'd have to spend too much time reading the texts and analysing them and time is very limited for me  :(

So yeah, my choices are limited (unfortunately)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on August 09, 2016, 01:34:27 pm

Quote from: conic curve on August 09, 2016, 10:55:22 am

Hm, I was thinking of Rabbit Proof fence (I've seen it before but forgot what happened in the movie) but analysing films would be a pain because there's so many things you'll need to talk about

If I did poems then I'd have trouble composing an essay on the sport so I'd rather do related text which is easier to integrate in an essay

If I did lionheart or Adventures of Huckleberry Finn then I'd have to spend too much time reading the texts and analysing them and time is very limited for me  :(

So yeah, my choices are limited (unfortunately)

If time is limited, do either a film you have seen before (Rabbit Proof Fence) or poetry (Skrzynecki). Particularly for Skzrynecki, his poems are quite punchy, it would not take you long to read them and pull some quotes out, it could easily be done in an afternoon, especially given how many resources are available for the poetry, given that it used to be on the Prescribed Text list ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: conic curve on August 09, 2016, 02:53:14 pm

Quote from: jamonwindeyer on August 09, 2016, 01:34:27 pm

If time is limited, do either a film you have seen before (Rabbit Proof Fence) or poetry (Skrzynecki). Particularly for Skzrynecki, his poems are quite punchy, it would not take you long to read them and pull some quotes out, it could easily be done in an afternoon, especially given how many resources are available for the poetry, given that it used to be on the Prescribed Text list ;D

It looks like I decided to do The adventures of Huckleberry Finn (since I found it in the library today). If it takes me too long to analyse, I'm going to scrap it and go to rabbit proof fence  :D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: Musa O on August 29, 2016, 08:47:52 pm

Hi! My teacher suggested I choose peter weir's Dead Poet's Society for AOS Discovery. I've watched it and can't really identify the discoveries within the film besides Todd's gradual gain in confidence once he heard Mr Keating's saying: "Carpe Diem". If you've watched it, do you recognise discoveries within the text? Thanks heaps! ~~~

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: conic curve on September 15, 2016, 04:31:02 pm

Quote from: Musa O on August 29, 2016, 08:47:52 pm

Hi! My teacher suggested I choose peter weir's Dead Poet's Society for AOS Discovery. I've watched it and can't really identify the discoveries within the film besides Todd's gradual gain in confidence once he heard Mr Keating's saying: "Carpe Diem". If you've watched it, do you recognise discoveries within the text? Thanks heaps! ~~~

Just curious to know but what is your prescribed text?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: EmileeSmith on September 15, 2016, 09:08:31 pm

i like this very helpful!

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: conic curve on September 20, 2016, 11:07:08 am

I don't know where to post this but what sort of discoveries are there in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSxJkKiHXbw

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: Emerald99 on October 03, 2016, 11:56:38 pm

Do you think there's a high chance that this year we'll get asked to have two related texts?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: ssarahj on October 04, 2016, 10:20:49 am

Quote from: Emerald99 on October 03, 2016, 11:56:38 pm

Do you think there's a high chance that this year we'll get asked to have two related texts?

There's always a chance since the syllabus leaves it open to being asked for 2 related texts, HOWEVER I think it would be seen as fairly cruel and the standard of writing would inevitably drop. Also the new English syllabus does not require related texts, so since BOSTES is moving that way, it would be unlikely (but obviously still possible) that they would ask for 2 related texts this year  :) There was a discussion the forum a while back where people suggested using a text from the Unseen Texts section of Paper 1 if they needed a second related text for the essay, so that could be a good option if you don't have a second one prepared.

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on October 04, 2016, 02:22:28 pm

Quote from: Emerald99 on October 03, 2016, 11:56:38 pm

Do you think there's a high chance that this year we'll get asked to have two related texts?

Also just adding to Sarah on this one, who explained it brilliantly already - in the last 11 years they have only ONCE asked for two related texts. Just to pop it into perspective :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: fizzy.123 on October 05, 2016, 01:37:14 am

do related texts need to explore a different issue to the pt or can they be very similar?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on October 05, 2016, 11:45:38 am

Quote from: fizzy.123 on October 05, 2016, 01:37:14 am

do related texts need to explore a different issue to the pt or can they be very similar?

It depends on how you want to frame it! I would say that the issue needs to be the same, but it can explore it in a different way. The thing is, you need to make the link between the texts, to justify why they are being discussed in the same essay. If one is about say, relationships, and the other is a political statement, those will be hard to link and discuss at the same time. Try to pick things that explore similar themes, but as I said, they can come to different conclusions or have different messages! In fact, this can really add to your argument ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on October 05, 2016, 05:23:51 pm

Quote from: fizzy.123 on October 05, 2016, 01:37:14 am

do related texts need to explore a different issue to the pt or can they be very similar?

They don't need to be matches, but rather, complimentary pairs. Some similarities, some differences :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: J.B on October 06, 2016, 01:54:48 pm

Hi,
I will be studying the Tempest for discovery this term, and I have been looking at some related texts.
I have a found a short story about the grief after a tornado and I was just wondering if you think there would be many discovery themes in a grief storyline? Or should I keep looking?
Thank you

P.S I'm not sure if this is the right section to post a question, I am new to this site.

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on October 06, 2016, 01:56:44 pm

Quote from: J.B on October 06, 2016, 01:54:48 pm

Hi,
I will be studying the Tempest for discovery this term, and I have been looking at some related texts.
I have a found a short story about the grief after a tornado and I was just wondering if you think there would be many discovery themes in a grief storyline? Or should I keep looking?
Thank you

Hey JB! Welcome to the forums! Let me know if you need a hand finding anything! :)

In general I'd say that yeah! There could be Discovery in there, discoveries are often spurred by traumatic experiences. Why don't you tell us what Discovery ideas you get from the text and we'll see if we think they are suitable to sustain an essay response? :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: CaitlinSavins on October 06, 2016, 04:33:13 pm

Hey just a quick question: My school has chosen the novel 'The Motorcycle Diaries' as our prescribed text for the AOS.
Considering this, would it be in my interest (and the interest of my marks) to choose an ORT that is a novel?
OR should I go along the lines of a poem or film?
Could I use the film adaptation of 'The Motorcycle Diaries' as an ORT?
Sorry, quick 3 questions  ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: ssarahj on October 06, 2016, 04:42:17 pm

Quote from: CaitlinSavins on October 06, 2016, 04:33:13 pm

Hey just a quick question: My school has chosen the novel 'The Motorcycle Diaries' as our prescribed text for the AOS.
Considering this, would it be in my interest (and the interest of my marks) to choose an ORT that is a novel?
OR should I go along the lines of a poem or film?
Could I use the film adaptation of 'The Motorcycle Diaries' as an ORT?
Sorry, quick 3 questions  ;D

Hey CaitlinSavins welcome to the forums!

Your related text definitely doesn't have to be another novel! It won't impact your marks at all. Other text types, like films and poetry, can be great because you're analysing different techniques so you can often add a lot of depth and show off a lot more in your essay.

When choosing a related text go with something that you actually like and will connect with 'The Motorcycle Diaries' really well. The text type doesn't matter as much as you might think.  :)

I would advise against using the film adaption as a related text. It won't give you a lot of room to move in terms of ideas.

Let us know later if you're tossing up between a few texts and you need help deciding  :) :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: CaitlinSavins on October 06, 2016, 05:00:04 pm

Hello it's me again
I've done some investigating and found a few potential ORTs for 'The Motorcycle Diaries':
'The histrionic wayfarer (after Bosch)' (painting) by Tim Storrier
'The Road Not Taken' (poem) by Robert Frost
'Invictus' (poem) by W.E. Henley
'Oh, the Places You'll Go!' (poem) by Dr. Seuss.
Could someone possibly recommend for/against one of these? I'm stumped

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on October 06, 2016, 10:39:48 pm

Quote from: CaitlinSavins on October 06, 2016, 05:00:04 pm

Hello it's me again
I've done some investigating and found a few potential ORTs for 'The Motorcycle Diaries':
'The histrionic wayfarer (after Bosch)' (painting) by Tim Storrier
'The Road Not Taken' (poem) by Robert Frost
'Invictus' (poem) by W.E. Henley
'Oh, the Places You'll Go!' (poem) by Dr. Seuss.
Could someone possibly recommend for/against one of these? I'm stumped

I don't know about any of these, except the Dr. Seuss one, but I do have some advice: If you're in the graduating class of 2016, choose whichever you can learn and understand in the shortest time possible. 7 days until the exam! Woohoo!

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: CaitlinSavins on October 06, 2016, 10:50:16 pm

Quote from: elysepopplewell on October 06, 2016, 10:39:48 pm

I don't know about any of these, except the Dr. Seuss one, but I do have some advice: If you're in the graduating class of 2016, choose whichever you can learn and understand in the shortest time possible. 7 days until the exam! Woohoo!

Nope, class of 2017 - just a major major nerd wanting to do 100x better in HSC English than they did in Prelim English...   :'(
Thank you!! :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: BPunjabi on October 06, 2016, 11:34:54 pm

Quote from: CaitlinSavins on October 06, 2016, 10:50:16 pm

Nope, class of 2017 - just a major major nerd wanting to do 100x better in HSC English than they did in Prelim English...   :'(
Thank you!! :)

Well Good luck, your probably prepared a lot better than some of us sitting for this exam in a week  :-\

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on October 07, 2016, 09:27:31 am

Quote from: CaitlinSavins on October 06, 2016, 10:50:16 pm

Nope, class of 2017 - just a major major nerd wanting to do 100x better in HSC English than they did in Prelim English...   :'(
Thank you!! :)

Good on you! Stick around throughout the year, this'll be a good resource for you! Always happy to help!

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: nibblez16 on October 07, 2016, 11:52:20 am

Hello. Eng is in a week what do you say about having related texts for AOS and Mod C? Do you really think we should have 2-3?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on October 07, 2016, 12:00:43 pm

Quote from: nibblez16 on October 07, 2016, 11:52:20 am

Hello. Eng is in a week what do you say about having related texts for AOS and Mod C? Do you really think we should have 2-3?

Hey! It depends a bit on how you use them. You can get by with one ORT for both for sure, if you've picked well and you can blend it with both areas nicely. Most people will have one from each and that does them nicely. I would suggest that 2 is probably the best number!! If you need a second ORT for AoS, just use one of your unseen texts. If you need a second one for Module C, just use your ORT for AoS :D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on October 07, 2016, 12:39:39 pm

Quote from: nibblez16 on October 07, 2016, 11:52:20 am

Hello. Eng is in a week what do you say about having related texts for AOS and Mod C? Do you really think we should have 2-3?

No! I definitely don't think having 3 is necessary, I hardly think two is necessary! I only prepared one for each (in fact, it was the same text for both) and went in with that in my study mind. I knew my related text really well, and was confident that I could sustain an argument with just one related text. In the scenario that they would ask me for two related texts in AOS, I decided I would use one of the unseen texts as a related text.

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: vincentso69 on October 11, 2016, 10:25:11 pm

what the hell does ORT mean/ stand for?

i tried searching on the internet but it doesn't work

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: sudodds on October 11, 2016, 10:27:50 pm

Quote from: vincentso69 on October 11, 2016, 10:25:11 pm

what the hell does ORT mean/ stand for?

i tried searching on the internet but it doesn't work

It means related text :) You'll need at least one for the Discovery Essay and Module C.

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: vincentso69 on October 11, 2016, 10:31:21 pm

Quote from: sudodds on October 11, 2016, 10:27:50 pm

It means related text :) You'll need at least one for the Discovery Essay and Module C.

i do standard, that means another one for Mod A= more fun

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: sudodds on October 12, 2016, 11:57:34 am

Quote from: vincentso69 on October 11, 2016, 10:31:21 pm

i do standard, that means another one for Mod A= more fun

Wow! Thats so annoying :( I'm sure you're going to smash it though! Good luck xx

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: asd987 on October 12, 2016, 06:36:13 pm

Can anyone suggest me related texts for 'go back to where you came from.' ty

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on October 12, 2016, 07:22:40 pm

Quote from: asd987 on October 12, 2016, 06:36:13 pm

Can anyone suggest me related texts for 'go back to where you came from.' ty

Elyse represents 'Distant Lands' by Tim Winton to everyone, but it might be a bit tricky to find on such short notice :P some poems that might be good ideas you can see here! Good luck! ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: asd987 on October 12, 2016, 08:03:04 pm

Quote from: jamonwindeyer on October 12, 2016, 07:22:40 pm

Elyse represents 'Distant Lands' by Tim Winton to everyone, but it might be a bit tricky to find on such short notice :P some poems that might be good ideas you can see here! Good luck! ;D

I'm doing my hsc next year  :D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on October 12, 2016, 09:51:57 pm

Quote from: asd987 on October 12, 2016, 08:03:04 pm

I'm doing my hsc next year  :D

Oh cool! Sorry just in Year 12 English mode ;) then that short story I mentioned is definitely worth a look! An extremely effective ORT ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: asd987 on October 12, 2016, 11:17:09 pm

Is Distant Lands available online - i can't seem to find it, or will i have to purchase it from somewhere? 

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on October 12, 2016, 11:23:02 pm

Quote from: asd987 on October 12, 2016, 11:17:09 pm

Is Distant Lands available online - i can't seem to find it, or will i have to purchase it from somewhere?

I'll ask Elyse to get back to you on that, I don't think it's available online, should be at your local library though!! Let me get Elyse to check in tomorrow though ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: kb123 on October 23, 2016, 03:28:38 pm

Hi!

I was wondering if the related text is better to be of a completely different text type (ie. book vs film, or book vs poem)? For example, would the "Motorcycle Diaries" by Che Gueavara (a non-fiction, series of diary entries) classify as being a different text type to "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" by Mark Twain (a fiction novel) ??

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on October 23, 2016, 04:01:02 pm

Quote from: kb123 on October 23, 2016, 03:28:38 pm

Hi!

I was wondering if the related text is better to be of a completely different text type (ie. book vs film, or book vs poem)? For example, would the "Motorcycle Diaries" by Che Gueavara (a non-fiction, series of diary entries) classify as being a different text type to "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" by Mark Twain (a fiction novel) ??

Hey! It isn't totally necessary no; but it does give you a bit more variety in your techniques and analysis. Like, doing a film and novel means you can discuss both literary and filmic techniques, for example :) don't stress as much about this as just finding something that you like and that is conceptually rich! But yeah, I'd say those are different text types :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: kb123 on October 23, 2016, 04:09:45 pm

Quote from: jamonwindeyer on October 23, 2016, 04:01:02 pm

Hey! It isn't totally necessary no; but it does give you a bit more variety in your techniques and analysis. Like, doing a film and novel means you can discuss both literary and filmic techniques, for example :) don't stress as much about this as just finding something that you like and that is conceptually rich! But yeah, I'd say those are different text types :)

Ok cool! I'm thinking about having Huckleberry as a related because it has that literary merit that all you guys are after, and it links well to Motorcycle Diaries, in my opinion at least, while at the same time having interesting differences :) What do you think of the combo?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on October 23, 2016, 04:12:06 pm

Quote from: kb123 on October 23, 2016, 04:09:45 pm

Ok cool! I'm thinking about having Huckleberry as a related because it has that literary merit that all you guys are after, and it links well to Motorcycle Diaries, in my opinion at least, while at the same time having interesting differences :) What do you think of the combo?

Hmm, I didn't study Motorcycle Diaries, though Huckleberry Finn I know makes a fantastic ORT. Anyone have any insights on relation to this Prescribed Text? :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: SSSS on November 03, 2016, 08:13:27 pm

For english advanced, would of mice and men be a good text? Because i think its for year 10.

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: sudodds on November 03, 2016, 08:17:25 pm

Quote from: SSSS on November 03, 2016, 08:13:27 pm

For english advanced, would of mice and men be a good text? Because i think its for year 10.

Hey! I was told by my teacher to avoid it for that reason, same with Animal Farm. However, I'm sure that if you did it, and you did it really well, it's not going to negatively affect you that much, but yes, it is something to keep in mind.

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: SSSS on November 03, 2016, 08:20:49 pm

The thing is The Tempest is full on, so I have amazing notes on of mice and men because of a previous teacher i had. Yet, to be safe i was thinking of doing emily dickinsons poetry.

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: sudodds on November 03, 2016, 08:26:11 pm

Quote from: SSSS on November 03, 2016, 08:20:49 pm

The thing is The Tempest is full on, so I have amazing notes on of mice and men because of a previous teacher i had. Yet, to be safe i was thinking of doing emily dickinsons poetry.

I did the Tempest! If you want related texts for that, I would highly recommend An Idiot Abroad and The Perks of Being a Wallflower (the novel) as related texts. Neither of them are too full on, and they work really well :) They may not seem to "academic-y" upon first glance, but if you work with them well they can really stand out :) If you're considering it, I have notes on them that I am more than happy to share with you :) (I'll post them on the notes page at some point haha)

I don't know much about emily dickinson's poetry, but I'm sure that'd work fab as well :) A lot of my friends did poetry as related texts and said there was a lot that they could go on :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: SSSS on November 03, 2016, 08:34:32 pm

Really?! I can't believe I can use perks of being a wallflower. Thank you so much for your advice, much appreciated!  :) And yes, can I please view your notes? I was stressing so much about my related and the tempest.

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on November 03, 2016, 08:49:45 pm

Quote from: sudodds on November 03, 2016, 08:26:11 pm

I did the Tempest! If you want related texts for that, I would highly recommend An Idiot Abroad and The Perks of Being a Wallflower (the novel) as related texts. Neither of them are too full on, and they work really well :) They may not seem to "academic-y" upon first glance, but if you work with them well they can really stand out :) If you're considering it, I have notes on them that I am more than happy to share with you :) (I'll post them on the notes page at some point haha)

I don't know much about emily dickinson's poetry, but I'm sure that'd work fab as well :) A lot of my friends did poetry as related texts and said there was a lot that they could go on :)

You're an absolute legend sudodds! ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: sudodds on November 03, 2016, 09:01:20 pm

Quote from: SSSS on November 03, 2016, 08:34:32 pm

Really?! I can't believe I can use perks of being a wallflower. Thank you so much for your advice, much appreciated!  :) And yes, can I please view your notes? I was stressing so much about my related and the tempest.

Perks was probably my strongest one! Such an underrated text, fits so well for so many different topics, and no worries! Happy to help :) Good luck xx

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: SSSS on November 03, 2016, 09:12:36 pm

Thank you so much!!!!  ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: Yasminpotts1105 on November 06, 2016, 02:34:04 pm

Would Anh Do's The Happiest Refugee be a suitable related text for a discovery essay?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: ssarahj on November 06, 2016, 05:07:58 pm

Quote from: Yasminpotts1105 on November 06, 2016, 02:34:04 pm

Would Anh Do's The Happiest Refugee be a suitable related text for a discovery essay?

If it works well with your prescribed text and you can start to build an solid essay then go for it! Anh Do is one of my absolute favourite people so I'm probably slightly biased..... but I can see how it could make a decent related text 8)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: Yasminpotts1105 on November 07, 2016, 08:30:37 pm

Would Winter Dreams by F Scott Fitzgerald work as a related text in a discovery essay?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: hermansia12 on November 07, 2016, 09:07:10 pm

Quote from: Yasminpotts1105 on November 07, 2016, 08:30:37 pm

Would Winter Dreams by F Scott Fitzgerald work as a related text in a discovery essay?

I love Winter Dreams and it can be regarded as a sophisticated text with lots of potential. I can see how it would fit well in a discovery essay, especially with Dexter constantly discovering and changing his perspectives. Make sure your themes from Winter Dreams ties and links together with your prescribed text but other than that, it would be a great related for discovery.

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: kb123 on November 12, 2016, 06:16:59 pm

Hi!
What do you guys think of using "The Metamorphosis" by Franz Kafka as a related for the discovery essay? My prescribed text is Motorcycle Diaries

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: teapancakes08 on November 12, 2016, 08:02:58 pm

We're supposed to choose two related texts for a speech, to which the question is '"Discoveries can affirm or challenge our assumptions and beliefs about the world." Analyse the impact of this statement in relation to your two chosen related texts. The two chosen texts I picked are "Boyhood" and "Memoirs of a Geisha", both of which I enjoy (and still remember very well!) but also know that they're also very lengthy. Would I be disadvantaging myself by this?

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on November 13, 2016, 09:40:53 am

Quote from: kb123 on November 12, 2016, 06:16:59 pm

Hi!
What do you guys think of using "The Metamorphosis" by Franz Kafka as a related for the discovery essay? My prescribed text is Motorcycle Diaries

Hey kb! I've read Matamorphosis (ages ago), from memory it would work extremely well! It would definitely work for Discovery in a broader sense and it would definitely have enough literary techniques to extract, it would be up to decide whether it works with your text specifically :) does it cover similar themes? Can you discuss them together? :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on November 13, 2016, 09:43:54 am

Quote from: teapancakes08 on November 12, 2016, 08:02:58 pm

We're supposed to choose two related texts for a speech, to which the question is '"Discoveries can affirm or challenge our assumptions and beliefs about the world." Analyse the impact of this statement in relation to your two chosen related texts. The two chosen texts I picked are "Boyhood" and "Memoirs of a Geisha", both of which I enjoy (and still remember very well!) but also know that they're also very lengthy. Would I be disadvantaging myself by this?

Not at all teapancakes! I think instead you are advantaging yourself by choosing texts you know and enjoy! :) the length won't matter, especially if you already know the basic themes of the texts and have an idea on how to start analysing them ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: kb123 on November 13, 2016, 06:36:13 pm

Quote from: jamonwindeyer on November 13, 2016, 09:40:53 am

Hey kb! I've read Matamorphosis (ages ago), from memory it would work extremely well! It would definitely work for Discovery in a broader sense and it would definitely have enough literary techniques to extract, it would be up to decide whether it works with your text specifically :) does it cover similar themes? Can you discuss them together? :)

I feel like they have similar themes to do with discovery, but they also have contrasts which I think would be good to deepen the essay - right now i'm relating them by the fact that in both discoveries are transformative and lead to changed perspectives, however the transformation in motorcycle is positive, in metamorphosis it is negative

Title: Re: Choosing the right ORT!
Post by: elysepopplewell on November 13, 2016, 09:59:34 pm

Quote from: kb123 on November 13, 2016, 06:36:13 pm

I feel like they have similar themes to do with discovery, but they also have contrasts which I think would be good to deepen the essay - right now i'm relating them by the fact that in both discoveries are transformative and lead to changed perspectives, however the transformation in motorcycle is positive, in metamorphosis it is negative

That sounds like a great idea - the contrasts is what is so important to your analysis. That ending part is what will allow a really rich ending to your analysis, it will bring it all together when you tie in to your conclusion, I think!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: f_tan on November 14, 2016, 08:44:13 pm

Hi! Having trouble choosing a related for discovery :( and borrowed a book from the discovery related texts section in the library. The book was a collection of short stories and there's this one that I found that might work with the prescribed text (The Tempest), but I'm not too sure so any opinions on this short story would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on November 15, 2016, 05:42:50 pm

Quote from: f_tan on November 14, 2016, 08:44:13 pm

Hi! Having trouble choosing a related for discovery :( and borrowed a book from the discovery related texts section in the library. The book was a collection of short stories and there's this one that I found that might work with the prescribed text (The Tempest), but I'm not too sure so any opinions on this short story would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

I think this might cut off...I can only read to page 283. Nonetheless, that was actually a really interesting story. The first two pages had so many little twists it was a pleasure to read. I think this could work really well! What kinds of discovery stick out to you in this text? Physical...emotional...spiritual...intellectual...creative? I think the benefit of this text as well is that it is short, clearly written, and packed with meaning. I think you could do a lot with it.

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: f_tan on November 15, 2016, 10:08:38 pm

Quote from: elysepopplewell on November 15, 2016, 05:42:50 pm

I think this might cut off...I can only read to page 283. Nonetheless, that was actually a really interesting story. The first two pages had so many little twists it was a pleasure to read. I think this could work really well! What kinds of discovery stick out to you in this text? Physical...emotional...spiritual...intellectual...creative? I think the benefit of this text as well is that it is short, clearly written, and packed with meaning. I think you could do a lot with it.

I was thinking that it explored mostly emotional and spiritual discoveries, as with the other short stories in the the author's book - mostly about the importance of humanity/human connection, similar to the characters in the Tempest learning/discovering mercy and forgiveness. However, I thought it might be hard to talk about context as it's like the Jacobean era where Shakespeare could challenge social hierarchy and an individual's greed for power, and I wasn't too sure if there would be enough evidence to take out and link to each rubric point, but it's good to know that you think it would work. Thanks heaps! :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on November 15, 2016, 10:35:16 pm

Quote from: f_tan on November 15, 2016, 10:08:38 pm

I was thinking that it explored mostly emotional and spiritual discoveries, as with the other short stories in the the author's book - mostly about the importance of humanity/human connection, similar to the characters in the Tempest learning/discovering mercy and forgiveness. However, I thought it might be hard to talk about context as it's like the Jacobean era where Shakespeare could challenge social hierarchy and an individual's greed for power, and I wasn't too sure if there would be enough evidence to take out and link to each rubric point, but it's good to know that you think it would work. Thanks heaps! :)

Yeah that all sounds great! I think that the process of finding the right related text is often trial and error, by really trying to apply it to your prescribed text. If you get to the point of trying to combine the two in an essay and it isn't working - then it's a pretty decent sign to say it won't work. Not to fear, it's early days! But, that is the reality of the process: applying the two texts together to see if they gel! :) Let us know how you go if you decide to pursue this. The idea of human connectivity, trust, and relationships certainly features in the Tempest as well as in this related.

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: ChocolateWaffle on December 08, 2016, 02:04:43 pm

Hello! Just watched Kubo and The Two Strings recently and I thought it was an absolutely lovely movie. It really tugged at the heartstrings (*coughs*) and appeals to me because there's a distinct lack of dynamic visual texts for my Advanced course this year. I know of some who've chosen Coraline as a related text for Discovery, so I was wondering what the rest of you thought about using Kubo? I'll admit the relationships it portrays are somewhat simplistic, but there's a lot beyond that to talk about, not to mention it'd be a great opportunity to look at a story from a different cultural and historical context. If you think it doesn't necessarily fit the Discovery rubric, what would you say to using it as a related for Representing People and Landscapes?

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on December 10, 2016, 07:52:00 pm

Quote from: ChocolateWaffle on December 08, 2016, 02:04:43 pm

Hello! Just watched Kubo and The Two Strings recently and I thought it was an absolutely lovely movie. It really tugged at the heartstrings (*coughs*) and appeals to me because there's a distinct lack of dynamic visual texts for my Advanced course this year. I know of some who've chosen Coraline as a related text for Discovery, so I was wondering what the rest of you thought about using Kubo? I'll admit the relationships it portrays are somewhat simplistic, but there's a lot beyond that to talk about, not to mention it'd be a great opportunity to look at a story from a different cultural and historical context. If you think it doesn't necessarily fit the Discovery rubric, what would you say to using it as a related for Representing People and Landscapes?

Hey ChocolateWaffle! It sounds like you've put some good thought into this. I haven't watched Kubo and the Two Strings, but I've just quickly googled to get an idea about it all. Looking at different cultural and historical perspectives could actually be wonderful for discovery - particularly if you're looking at the ways discoveries are experienced from different stand points. In fact, I think looking into stand point some more, and how people bring their different perspectives to a situation, could be what makes your work so astounding!

Similarly, People and Landscapes and this text could work wonderfully as well. I used the same related for AOS and for Mod C, so you could do that as well potentially!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: ChocolateWaffle on December 18, 2016, 05:26:53 pm

Quote from: elysepopplewell on December 10, 2016, 07:52:00 pm

Hey ChocolateWaffle! It sounds like you've put some good thought into this. I haven't watched Kubo and the Two Strings, but I've just quickly googled to get an idea about it all. Looking at different cultural and historical perspectives could actually be wonderful for discovery - particularly if you're looking at the ways discoveries are experienced from different stand points. In fact, I think looking into stand point some more, and how people bring their different perspectives to a situation, could be what makes your work so astounding!

Similarly, People and Landscapes and this text could work wonderfully as well. I used the same related for AOS and for Mod C, so you could do that as well potentially!

Hello elyse! (I hope I can call you that, everyone else seems to and it's a pretty name to type ;) )
I thought so too, mostly because it's a good alternative against those who'll be doing Go Back for as their prescribed text. I reconsidered it, and I do feel the visuals themselves support Mod C, whereas the plot would support Discovery sufficiently enough. And it is a visual text, so I think saving it for Mod C would be more effective in terms of analysis at least. But wow, I wish it had occurred to me earlier that I could use one related for both modules! I do have this one other visual I could analyse for AOS (it's a picture book), but I'm wondering whether an actual film might be a more solidly 'visual' text, considering my prescribed is a novel and my second related is a short story?

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on December 19, 2016, 04:13:03 pm

Quote from: ChocolateWaffle on December 18, 2016, 05:26:53 pm

Hello elyse! (I hope I can call you that, everyone else seems to and it's a pretty name to type ;) )
I thought so too, mostly because it's a good alternative against those who'll be doing Go Back for as their prescribed text. I reconsidered it, and I do feel the visuals themselves support Mod C, whereas the plot would support Discovery sufficiently enough. And it is a visual text, so I think saving it for Mod C would be more effective in terms of analysis at least. But wow, I wish it had occurred to me earlier that I could use one related for both modules! I do have this one other visual I could analyse for AOS (it's a picture book), but I'm wondering whether an actual film might be a more solidly 'visual' text, considering my prescribed is a novel and my second related is a short story?

Elyse will do just fine :)

I think that your decision here comes down to what you prefer analysing: stills or motions? I find that it's easier to analyse a still text, because you just look at one frame and pick everything apart. But, I think it's easier to talk about motion visuals like films, because you throw in the sound mode as well which is really important. So, the initial analysis is easier for me with a visual text but I find that my analysis of films is better, because I'll bounce between sonic and visual techniques.

If you can double up and do one related text for both modules, I think you're streamlining your study a fair bit! But that's only if the text naturally applies itself well to both, otherwise you're just making work for yourself by trying to force a text into a module that it doesn't cling to!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: meems__ on January 16, 2017, 04:03:05 pm

Hello, does anyone have good related text suggestions for 'intellectual' discovery, preferably to go with Dobson's prescribed poems? Thank you very much! :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on January 16, 2017, 04:51:24 pm

Quote from: meems__ on January 16, 2017, 04:03:05 pm

Hello, does anyone have good related text suggestions for 'intellectual' discovery, preferably to go with Dobson's prescribed poems? Thank you very much! :)

Hey! Welcome to the forums! ;D

I can't answer your question specifically, but you might want to check out this list of potential ORT's. It includes films, novels, and other text types - It might have something for you!

I hope it helps :) let me know if you need help finding things around the site!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on January 16, 2017, 07:27:15 pm

Quote from: meems__ on January 16, 2017, 04:03:05 pm

Hello, does anyone have good related text suggestions for 'intellectual' discovery, preferably to go with Dobson's prescribed poems? Thank you very much! :)

I'm not doubting your understanding of intellectual discovery - but be sure to consider it outside of the academic realm. When I first approached intellectual discoveries I looked at it as relating to intellect: the quantifiable process of accurately reasoning. Over time I realised it just has to do with reasoning: whether or not it is accurate or quantifiable. So it has a lot to do with perspective: how someone comes to reason a certain way, how they come to approach situations objectively.

With that, any related text that offers a shift in perspective based on someone's thought/reasoning process is a great choice. Readers can also make intellectual discoveries through a text. The link Jamon suggested will give you lots of ideas. I'll draw to your attention to Neigbours by Tim Winton and Kate Chopin's The Story of an Hour. They're short stories!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: Mayalily on January 27, 2017, 09:54:17 pm

Hey,
I'd like to preface this by saying that I'm just a student as well, in the same boat as you; but I found that something that really helped me was looking at suggested text lists from places like the Library of NSW (see attached). They also have other great sources about the AOS which I also found pretty valuable - this for example: http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/printpdf/51061.

Hope this is useful!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: DalvinT on January 27, 2017, 11:54:20 pm

 Hey Elyse! Would paintings/other artworks be considers as ORT ?

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on January 28, 2017, 12:15:07 pm

Quote from: Mayalily on January 27, 2017, 09:54:17 pm

Hey,
I'd like to preface this by saying that I'm just a student as well, in the same boat as you; but I found that something that really helped me was looking at suggested text lists from places like the Library of NSW (see attached). They also have other great sources about the AOS which I also found pretty valuable - this for example: http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/printpdf/51061.

Hope this is useful!

Legend! What a great resource, thanks for sharing! ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on January 28, 2017, 12:17:47 pm

Quote from: DalvinT on January 27, 2017, 11:54:20 pm

Hey Elyse! Would paintings/other artworks be considers as ORT ?

Hey Dalvin! Artworks/paintings work, but you do need to be able to get a solid level of conceptual and analytical depth. There needs to be techniques and layers of complexity to the work. Basically, you need stuff to talk about. My opinion would be that normally, paintings wouldn't quite suit the purpose. Purely because you don't have as much to discuss. That said, if you think you've got an exception, it is definitely something you can use! ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on January 28, 2017, 12:34:35 pm

Quote from: DalvinT on January 27, 2017, 11:54:20 pm

Hey Elyse! Would paintings/other artworks be considers as ORT ?

Adding on to Jamon's opinion..I've seldom seen great still-visual related texts. Humans of New York (blog/photographs) is an EXCELLENT discovery related text that you could consider an artwork through photographic installation/documentation. Picasso's Guernica has been done a few times and often reasonably well. So, they definitely can be considered related texts, but you need to find a good one!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: samuels1999 on January 28, 2017, 02:18:18 pm

Hi Elyse,

I just wanted to know if you could recommend some visual texts that could work with the Discovery AOS.
I haven't been able to find one that isn't too simple yet has the obvious theme of discover in it along with a variety of techniques.

Thanks,
Samuel

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on January 28, 2017, 02:28:00 pm

Quote from: samuels1999 on January 28, 2017, 02:18:18 pm

Hi Elyse,

I just wanted to know if you could recommend some visual texts that could work with the Discovery AOS.
I haven't been able to find one that isn't too simple yet has the obvious theme of discover in it along with a variety of techniques.

Thanks,
Samuel

Elyse just recommended Humans of New York, which I massively agree with. Never used it academically but it is a fantastic collection of photographs and writing that, when used right, I'm sure would work really well for the AoS ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: Sukakadonkadonk on January 28, 2017, 04:32:12 pm

Hello,

Do you guys have any recommendations on a related text for Aos which could also work and help with module C?
Not sure if this helps but my core text for Aos is short history of nearly everything and for mod c it is brave new world.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on January 28, 2017, 05:03:33 pm

Quote from: Sukakadonkadonk on January 28, 2017, 04:32:12 pm

Hello,

Do you guys have any recommendations on a related text for Aos which could also work and help with module C?
Not sure if this helps but my core text for Aos is short history of nearly everything and for mod c it is brave new world.

Thanks!

Welcome to the forums!

V for Vendetta is definitely worth consideration ;D

The transformation of the protagonist, the society, and other characters play a pivotal role in the composers choice of techniques, and the dystopian world space works well with the plot of your prescribed text for Module C. A super conceptual, super sophisticated text packed with techniques; and it's a great film too (Imo) ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on January 28, 2017, 05:07:11 pm

Quote from: Sukakadonkadonk on January 28, 2017, 04:32:12 pm

Hello,

Do you guys have any recommendations on a related text for Aos which could also work and help with module C?
Not sure if this helps but my core text for Aos is short history of nearly everything and for mod c it is brave new world.

Thanks!

I know Jamon just mentioned it above, but Humans of New York works magnificently across Module C (for politics and landscapes) and AOS. When looking at HONY, look specifically at series. Here's the link to the series posted. Some gel better with politics and some gel better with landscapes. In my opinion, it's a seriously good related text that's underused!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: Sukakadonkadonk on January 28, 2017, 05:44:12 pm

Quote from: elysepopplewell on January 28, 2017, 05:07:11 pm

I know Jamon just mentioned it above, but Humans of New York works magnificently across Module C (for politics and landscapes) and AOS. When looking at HONY, look specifically at series. Here's the link to the series posted. Some gel better with politics and some gel better with landscapes. In my opinion, it's a seriously good related text that's underused!

Hi again,

Thanks for the kind recommendation, will definitely look into it some more. Seeing that individual stories are quite short, would it work to talk about multiple stories in our essay?

Also, some of the Tropfest short films were made known to me to be a text to analyse. If I were to pick up another related text, do you have an idea on which ones work with discovery?

Thanks for your help!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: sudodds on January 28, 2017, 09:47:39 pm

Quote from: Sukakadonkadonk on January 28, 2017, 04:32:12 pm

Hello,

Do you guys have any recommendations on a related text for Aos which could also work and help with module C?
Not sure if this helps but my core text for Aos is short history of nearly everything and for mod c it is brave new world.

Thanks!

I didn't study your texts, but i realised half way through studying 'Candide' by Voltaire for Mod C ORT that I could have used it for discovery as well.

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on January 30, 2017, 02:41:19 pm

Quote from: Sukakadonkadonk on January 28, 2017, 05:44:12 pm

Hi again,

Thanks for the kind recommendation, will definitely look into it some more. Seeing that individual stories are quite short, would it work to talk about multiple stories in our essay?

Also, some of the Tropfest short films were made known to me to be a text to analyse. If I were to pick up another related text, do you have an idea on which ones work with discovery?

Thanks for your help!

You can definitely talk about multiple photos from a series. In fact, you could talk about different photos from different series, or you could just keep it in the one series. You've got text and visuals to work with, which is why I think HONY is a strong choice.

I haven't been keeping up with Tropfest recently, but I know that a few years ago they had the theme/symbol of "key" and I remember looking at some of these in class and finding them to be very relevant. Perhaps that's a good starting point :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: samuels1999 on January 30, 2017, 06:56:46 pm

Hi Elyse,

When it comes to related text for discoevry I like to cover a broad range of themes that relate to discovery along with different forms.
However I have realised that finding a good painting or photograph that has an obvious representation of disocovery is a bit difficult. Nevertheless, I did manage to find this image by Rembrant called "Belshazzar's Feast".
I have attached it below. Could you have a look at it and tell me if it is a good painting to use...and if it isn't, do you have any that you recommend?

Thanks heaps,
Samuel

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on January 30, 2017, 10:36:07 pm

Quote from: samuels1999 on January 30, 2017, 06:56:46 pm

Hi Elyse,

When it comes to related text for discoevry I like to cover a broad range of themes that relate to discovery along with different forms.
However I have realised that finding a good painting or photograph that has an obvious representation of disocovery is a bit difficult. Nevertheless, I did manage to find this image by Rembrant called "Belshazzar's Feast".
I have attached it below. Could you have a look at it and tell me if it is a good painting to use...and if it isn't, do you have any that you recommend?

Thanks heaps,
Samuel

This is going to sound a little weird, but I think this is the best way. Let's see you prove to us that it is worthy of study! Do your absolute best to answer this question in a paragraph:

How does Rembrant's "Belshazzar's Feast" portray a viewpoint on Discovery?

Answering this question will force you to look for techniques, look for concepts, look for things to analyse. Give it a go! Elyse or I will let you know if we think you've got enough analytical depth there ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: samuels1999 on January 30, 2017, 11:05:59 pm

I think I understand why you asked me to do that. I have been spending quite a long time staring at the image and trying to find representations and concepts of discovery. And to be honest apart from the physically obvious discovery of the writing on the wall along with the response it prompts from those viewing it, there isn't much to the image. I mean I can see how the composer creates such an effect with visual techniques such as lighting, vectors, salient point etc. But I feel it is a very shallow one dimensional representation. There is nothing more to it metaphorically or symbolically. It is just a moment in time in which the composer captures a response of shock and awe to a discovery.

So I think I'll look for some text that has more than one dimension of meaning.

I still remember from a previous answer you gave that you said you can use a text if you use it right. Now in the Section where Elyse suggests related texts, she recommends the following:
Picasso - Guernica
Rene Magritte - The Treachery of Images
The Savage State by Thomas Cole

Now I honestly cannot see how they portray or represent discovery...
This is probably because I have no real idea with regard to analysing visual texts and extracting deep meaning from them.
Could you please clarify this?

(Sorry for the long response. And for not writing out my paragraph (which was quite pathetic))

Thanks a whole lot,
Samuel


 

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on January 31, 2017, 12:31:33 am

Quote from: samuels1999 on January 30, 2017, 11:05:59 pm

I think I understand why you asked me to do that. I have been spending quite a long time staring at the image and trying to find representations and concepts of discovery. And to be honest apart from the physically obvious discovery of the writing on the wall along with the response it prompts from those viewing it, there isn't much to the image. I mean I can see how the composer creates such an effect with visual techniques such as lighting, vectors, salient point etc. But I feel it is a very shallow one dimensional representation. There is nothing more to it metaphorically or symbolically. It is just a moment in time in which the composer captures a response of shock and awe to a discovery.

So I think I'll look for some text that has more than one dimension of meaning.

I still remember from a previous answer you gave that you said you can use a text if you use it right. Now in the Section where Elyse suggests related texts, she recommends the following:
Picasso - Guernica
Rene Magritte - The Treachery of Images
The Savage State by Thomas Cole

Now I honestly cannot see how they portray or represent discovery...
This is probably because I have no real idea with regard to analysing visual texts and extracting deep meaning from them.
Could you please clarify this?

(Sorry for the long response. And for not writing out my paragraph (which was quite pathetic))

Thanks a whole lot,
Samuel

Ahaha it's totally okay. I almost don't expect a paragraph response when I ask that question. Most of the time when I ask it, something clicks, and you realise that you don't quite have enough (though in saying that, you explained yourself well, you could have done it if you tried I reckon) ;) you'll know you are on to something when you feel confident writing that paragraph ;D

Visual texts are tough. By nature, they will not portray as much conceptually as a poem or a novel or a film. Using them is a hard road - You are right, you need something special. Either that or you need to semi-cheat and use several related visual texts (EG - Multiple images from Humans of New York) to get the required conceptual breadth. Depth isn't usually the issue - Visual texts can portray a single concept extremely well. But portraying multiple concepts is near impossible.

Those visual texts are very interpretive, very abstract. There is no actual discovery taking place in the image, rather the use of techniques conveys aspects of discovery. For example, Guernica is an anti-war piece, but the composition of the piece and the bland colour palette conveys negative aspects of discovery. You need to work harder to make those connections yourself!

Keep working at it. Is there a reason you definitely want a visual text? If you are after conceptual breadth as you stated earlier, a visual text may not be the best choice to satisfy that purpose :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: samuels1999 on January 31, 2017, 12:34:33 am

Oh Ok
Thanks, that really helped.

Just one more personal question....if there was one photo or painting that you would choose, what would it be?

Thanks,
Samuel

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on January 31, 2017, 06:01:21 pm

Quote from: samuels1999 on January 31, 2017, 12:34:33 am

Oh Ok
Thanks, that really helped.

Just one more personal question....if there was one photo or painting that you would choose, what would it be?

Thanks,
Samuel

It's hard to say, visual texts weren't what I gravitated towards. But, if I did, it would be this artwork here which is a Cold War piece. My knowledge of the Cold War as an influence on texts is pretty good because I studied it in Extension One, so it would be my pick!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: parthie on February 04, 2017, 03:16:17 pm

I had to do Dobson poems for discovery do you think that these related texts would be okay

Unbroken the film by Angelina Jolie

and

Eat Pray Love the book

any help would be great thanks

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 04, 2017, 05:55:43 pm

Quote from: parthie on February 04, 2017, 03:16:17 pm

I had to do Dobson poems for discovery do you think that these related texts would be okay

Unbroken the film by Angelina Jolie

and

Eat Pray Love the book

any help would be great thanks

I definitely think you can work with those texts! I don't know your prescribed text so I'm unsure of how the arguments that you would present would follow, but from a quick search online there doesn't seem to be a lot of critical analysis of the Eat Pray Love book, it's not a well-studied English text by the looks of it. If you're confident in your own analysis, you have no need for this, so carry on! But if you're a student who wants to fall back on other people's experiences of studying the text, then this mightn't be the one for you.

I think you could do great things with it though, because the book is in such clear stages you can easily identify shifts in perspectives!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: parthie on February 04, 2017, 07:34:31 pm

Quote from: elysepopplewell on February 04, 2017, 05:55:43 pm

I definitely think you can work with those texts! I don't know your prescribed text so I'm unsure of how the arguments that you would present would follow, but from a quick search online there doesn't seem to be a lot of critical analysis of the Eat Pray Love book, it's not a well-studied English text by the looks of it. If you're confident in your own analysis, you have no need for this, so carry on! But if you're a student who wants to fall back on other people's experiences of studying the text, then this mightn't be the one for you.

I think you could do great things with it though, because the book is in such clear stages you can easily identify shifts in perspectives!

Thanks so much elyse!! I think I am going to go with it because I generally tend to write my own analysis then get it marked so I think I can manage it :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on February 04, 2017, 10:08:39 pm

Quote from: parthie on February 04, 2017, 07:34:31 pm

Thanks so much elyse!! I think I am going to go with it because I generally tend to write my own analysis then get it marked so I think I can manage it :)

I'd love to know how you go with these texts, when you get further into the analysis please let me know how you go with these related texts!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: ajajaj on February 07, 2017, 11:06:37 pm

Hey guys,
I'm thinking of doing V for Vendetta for AOS and was able to find two themes in the movie that related to discovery. Jamon - if you still have them, could you please send me your analysis / essay of the film? It would really help alot! Apologies if you've already answered a question like this.
Thanks!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: Rasika on May 21, 2017, 09:52:02 pm

What is a good related text for 'Go back to where you came from' documentary???

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: Lollzza on June 01, 2017, 04:55:40 pm

Hi I'm in my prelims and for our exams our teacher is saying that if you want to extend yourself you should choose an ORT. Obviously I'm doing as such, and since our AOS is Connections, I was wondering if Lion could be a reputable related text? I was thinking it could pass on to HSC with Discovery, and to prepare two ORTs I'd use Saroo Brierley's novel, "A Long Way Back," to link with it. I think it has a lot of potential, but worried if it's still too sensational to use.

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: elysepopplewell on June 01, 2017, 07:41:15 pm

Quote from: Rasika on May 21, 2017, 09:52:02 pm

What is a good related text for 'Go back to where you came from' documentary???

I used Tim Winton's Distant Lands :) Short story!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: jamonwindeyer on June 01, 2017, 07:59:48 pm

Quote from: Lollzza on June 01, 2017, 04:55:40 pm

Hi I'm in my prelims and for our exams our teacher is saying that if you want to extend yourself you should choose an ORT. Obviously I'm doing as such, and since our AOS is Connections, I was wondering if Lion could be a reputable related text? I was thinking it could pass on to HSC with Discovery, and to prepare two ORTs I'd use Saroo Brierley's novel, "A Long Way Back," to link with it. I think it has a lot of potential, but worried if it's still too sensational to use.

Hey! I think Lion would be a great choice - Don't worry that it is popular, if it works it works! ;D

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: Turtlebae on July 23, 2017, 04:56:56 pm

Hello! I need help on finding related text on Module C: transition

I'm doing a play: Shafana & Aunt Sarinah

Thank you!

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: Donna-Lyn on October 27, 2017, 08:34:26 am

Hey, looking for some suggestions for my students. While looking at this thread someone referred to Motorcycle Diaries as a novel. It is not a novel (which is a fictional text); it is a non-fiction text, a memoir.

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: bojana2000 on January 29, 2018, 09:22:25 am

Hi!
 i need help on choosing a related text that goes well with the poetry of robert frost, in particular for the tuft of flowers, mending wall or after apple picking??

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: Opengangs on January 29, 2018, 09:26:24 am

Quote from: bojana2000 on January 29, 2018, 09:22:25 am

Hi!
 i need help on choosing a related text that goes well with the poetry of robert frost, in particular for the tuft of flowers, mending wall or after apple picking??

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :)

Hey,
What kinds of discoveries are you thinking about discussing?

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: bojana2000 on January 29, 2018, 02:02:48 pm

to be honest i am not quite sure where to begin - but i would discuss mainly physical or spiritual discoveries as they are often found in the poems?

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: Opengangs on January 29, 2018, 02:09:24 pm

Hey, bojana2000!

So for physical and spiritual discoveries, I highly recommend the film Moonrise Kingdom, directed by Wes Anderson. There are a lot of concepts of physical transformation that is explored by both of the main characters in the film. There's also a strong spiritual transformation within them; that is, they aren't the same as the people from the beginning of the film.

There are a plethora of techniques you can find in the film, so definitely something you could possibly check out for physical and spiritual discoveries.
Hopefully, this has been helpful! And good luck with the year tomorrow! :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: bojana2000 on February 02, 2018, 09:10:04 pm

hi again, would the related text tell tale heart be good with robert frosts tuft of flowers and after apple picking??

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: Seanclair on September 15, 2018, 09:59:45 am

Hey there!

I am doing Robert Gray's poems (which I enjoy) as my prescribed text, and my related text is Seamus Heaney's 'Personal Helicon' (which I love even more). I used Seamus Heaney in my trial and got 14/15 for it, however my teachers are suggesting to me that perhaps it's not the best idea to use a related text that is a poem also, because then your related text has no difference in form to your prescribed text. They argue that using a text that is not a poem would demonstrate a wider range of analysis skills, rather than simply using another poem.
It's a great text that I don't want to abandon and I can analysis it really well, but I guess my teachers are just trying to push me, and when it comes to my essay being marked against thousands of other students, I suppose showing a wide range of skills is importance to distinguish yourself.
What are your thoughts?

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: kauac on September 15, 2018, 11:22:34 am

Quote from: Seanclair on September 15, 2018, 09:59:45 am

Hey there!

I am doing Robert Gray's poems (which I enjoy) as my prescribed text, and my related text is Seamus Heaney's 'Personal Helicon' (which I love even more). I used Seamus Heaney in my trial and got 14/15 for it, however my teachers are suggesting to me that perhaps it's not the best idea to use a related text that is a poem also, because then your related text has no difference in form to your prescribed text. They argue that using a text that is not a poem would demonstrate a wider range of analysis skills, rather than simply using another poem.
It's a great text that I don't want to abandon and I can analysis it really well, but I guess my teachers are just trying to push me, and when it comes to my essay being marked against thousands of other students, I suppose showing a wide range of skills is importance to distinguish yourself.
What are your thoughts?

Hi...
I definitely think there is some truth in your teacher's opinion.

But just wanted to clarify, there is nothing inherently wrong with comparing two texts of the same type. With related texts, its how you analyse and compare it to your prescribed that is the most important. And by the sounds of it, you have already nailed that bit!  :)

But at the same time, two of the same text type can sometimes limit your opportunities to excel, by not having enough to contrast between the texts. Particularly since discovery is a conceptual unit, it is helpful to compare the portrayal of a range of discoveries in a variety of texts, to show the markers that you really get the rubric. Because, of course, the portrayal of discovery will depend on the techniques the composer uses, which will inherently differ by text type. If the nature of the discoveries in Gray's poetry vs Heaney's is quite different, then it might still work in your favour.

I would definitely encourage you to consider different text types. Perhaps Heaney's poem could be used as a second related text, seeing as it has already worked well for you. Or even use a quote from Heaney's poem in the introduction as a broad quote about discovery. Of course, as it is drawing close to the HSC, its up to you whether you want to change your related text, because it will mean you will have to put that extra bit of effort in to make sure you are confident with using it. So its definitely not essential that you change it, but if you have the time, maybe consider it then.

Hope this helps.  :)

Title: Re: Choosing the right related text!
Post by: DarthSamurai on September 18, 2018, 09:16:18 pm

HHi guys! Im sorry to be rather rude and straightforward but there is exactly one month till my HSC and I still haven’t got my shtuff together yet. I am doing ‘The Tempest’ as my text for discovery and ‘The art of travel’ for my mod C; and I have no related text for either one. I seem to be continually chopping and changing in the quest for the right related text, and for every single exam/assignment I seem to have used a different text and have always miss out on full marks simply because “I don’t do my related text justice because I dont pick the best examples from it” or “I try to force good literary quotes into incorrect situations”. I have tried classics-‘the strange case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde’, poems- ‘The lime tree bower my prison’ and even short stories ‘Dark they were and golden eyed’; but nothing seems to work out. Can you advise me some good related texts, ones that will preferably work for both, and hopefully not take me too long to analyse? Anyways any other advice would be greatly appreciated. Also thank you guys SOOO much in advance for taking the time to read and reply to this message, I REALLY appreciate it.