How to properly answer the five marker in short answers?

[Elenaa]

For some reason i always lose two marks in the five marker question and i don't even know why. So i was just wondering if theres some sort of way to approach this question, like what to include and stuff?

[vyca]

I've been told it should be around two pages of analysis, like a mini essay!

[elysepopplewell]

For some reason i always lose two marks in the five marker question and i don't even know why. So i was just wondering if theres some sort of way to approach this question, like what to include and stuff?

Mmm, it's hard to know what you are doing wrong! Make sure that you are doing a system something like STEEL: Statement, technique, example, effect, link. Something to that effect will make sure that you are writing something cohesive and not just stream-of-consciousness in the exam. I find that writing a mini thesis statement works really well too - just to scoop out what discovery means!

[Elenaa]

I've been told it should be around two pages of analysis, like a mini essay!

Mmm, it's hard to know what you are doing wrong! Make sure that you are doing a system something like STEEL: Statement, technique, example, effect, link. Something to that effect will make sure that you are writing something cohesive and not just stream-of-consciousness in the exam. I find that writing a mini thesis statement works really well too - just to scoop out what discovery means!

Thanks guys !!

Also just wondering if you could quickly read over my answer i wrote for the 5 marker from my cssa trial paper, i don't remember the question, i'm assuming something about the transformative nature of discovery, but i got a 3. Thanks!!

Texts two and one demonstrates how new worlds and understandings are revealed through discovery. Text two emphasises the transformative nature of discovery through relationships. At first, the persona is trapped by his father, "My father's discipline closed me like a box. A hardness hammered shut the lid". The simile and metaphor emphasise the lack of freedom that the persona has as a result of his father's discipline. The personification, "Rumours of happiness sometimes seeped outside the box," emphasise the effects of the persona's discipline as the persona lacks freedom. As a result, the persona feels, "There is no forgiveness now... Amnesia lies behind our peace," The metaphor highlights the lack of discovery that the persona experiences as a result of his father's discipline. The persona is trapped and this highlights the transformative nature of discovery

Text one also demonstrates how new worlds revealed through discovery as the contrast between the flowers and space indicate a new understanding of the environment that led to the significant discovery of new worlds. The flower symbolises beauty and the individual discovers the beauty within space, resulting in a new understanding. Furthermore, the rose acts as a salient image drawing the reader's attention to the flower, highlighting that the individual's discovery of new worlds is very significant for the individual.

[massive]

Guys when the question says chose two texts, would it be better or worse to pair one of the texts with the image? obviously it would be easier to analyse the image but can it still be as assertive as analysing a text.

PS. how do we even chose the texts anyway??

[jamonwindeyer]

Thanks guys !!
Also just wondering if you could quickly read over my answer i wrote for the 5 marker from my cssa trial paper, i don't remember the question, i'm assuming something about the transformative nature of discovery, but i got a 3. Thanks!!

Sure thing Elenaa!

Texts two and one demonstrates how new worlds and understandings are revealed through discovery. I think you could make this sentence a little longer to give just the tiniest bit more detail. Text two emphasises the transformative nature of discovery through relationships. At first, the persona is trapped by his father, "My father's discipline closed me like a box. A hardness hammered shut the lid". The simile and metaphor emphasise the lack of freedom that the persona has as a result of his father's discipline. How does this relate to the transformative nature of Discovery? The personification, "Rumours of happiness sometimes seeped outside the box," emphasise the effects of the persona's discipline as the persona lacks freedom. As a result, the persona feels, "There is no forgiveness now... Amnesia lies behind our peace," Retell; are there any new details here? The metaphor highlights the lack of discovery that the persona experiences as a result of his father's discipline. Good link, but I would say that the technique almost always works better placed BEFORE the quote, in my experience creates better flow. The persona is trapped and this highlights the transformative nature of discovery. Plot doesn't portray Discovery; techniques do!

Text one also demonstrates how new worlds revealed through discovery as the contrast between the flowers and space indicate a new understanding of the environment that led to the significant discovery of new worlds. That sentence was a bit too long without a pause. If you read it aloud and can't finish it comfortably in one breath without a pause, it needs a comma/full stop. The flower symbolises beauty and the individual discovers the beauty within space, resulting in a new understanding. Furthermore, the rose acts as a salient image drawing the reader's attention to the flower, highlighting that the individual's discovery of new worlds is very significant for the individual. Be sure to properly conclude. The analysis here isn't as strong as above, try to achieve a balance.

About a 3/5 seems right for this response; I'm looking for stronger links to Discovery and how it is portrayed with techniques! Also be sure to achieve a balance between your two texts; you might find this easier if you don't pick the visual text! Normally it's a little difficult to use this in the 5 marker

Guys when the question says chose two texts, would it be better or worse to pair one of the texts with the image? obviously it would be easier to analyse the image but can it still be as assertive as analysing a text.

PS. how do we even chose the texts anyway??

Oh, I'll tie this in here because it's the same topic: See above. The image normally doesn't work as well, based on what I've seen

You should choose whichever text gives you the most techniques to talk about, and that you feel confident linking to Discovery!

[lysscass]

a past hsc marker told our class that full marks should be achievable with 1-3 sentences for the 2 marks, a paragraph for the 3 marks and a short essay (intro, 2 body, conclusion) for the 5 marks. does this sound about right in anyone else's experience?

[studybuddy7777]

a past hsc marker told our class that full marks should be achievable with 1-3 sentences for the 2 marks, a paragraph for the 3 marks and a short essay (intro, 2 body, conclusion) for the 5 marks. does this sound about right in anyone else's experience?

Hey lysscass,

The 5-6 marker should be a mini essay yes. The rest of them are just general accurate guidelines. But these are not true guidelines for everyone.

Consider this. The amount written in the HSC is directly proportional to the marks allocated. (You can work this out mathematically if you really must, but im not that anal)

Say you write 4 lines for a 2 marker. You should hence write 6 lines for a 3 marker and 10 lines for a 5 marker. (12 for a 6 mk)
But, what if you write 6 lines for a 2 marker? Then this ups the 5 marker to 15 lines. (18 lines if it is 6mks).

But people rarely follow that pattern.. Just keep in mind you dont need to write 1/2 a page for the 2 marker, but you should be writing more than 1/2 a page for the 5-6 marker.

Hope this helps and goodluck for tomorrow everyone

[Elenaa]

Sure thing Elenaa!

Texts two and one demonstrates how new worlds and understandings are revealed through discovery. I think you could make this sentence a little longer to give just the tiniest bit more detail. Text two emphasises the transformative nature of discovery through relationships. At first, the persona is trapped by his father, "My father's discipline closed me like a box. A hardness hammered shut the lid". The simile and metaphor emphasise the lack of freedom that the persona has as a result of his father's discipline. How does this relate to the transformative nature of Discovery? The personification, "Rumours of happiness sometimes seeped outside the box," emphasise the effects of the persona's discipline as the persona lacks freedom. As a result, the persona feels, "There is no forgiveness now... Amnesia lies behind our peace," Retell; are there any new details here? The metaphor highlights the lack of discovery that the persona experiences as a result of his father's discipline. Good link, but I would say that the technique almost always works better placed BEFORE the quote, in my experience creates better flow. The persona is trapped and this highlights the transformative nature of discovery. Plot doesn't portray Discovery; techniques do!

Text one also demonstrates how new worlds revealed through discovery as the contrast between the flowers and space indicate a new understanding of the environment that led to the significant discovery of new worlds. That sentence was a bit too long without a pause. If you read it aloud and can't finish it comfortably in one breath without a pause, it needs a comma/full stop. The flower symbolises beauty and the individual discovers the beauty within space, resulting in a new understanding. Furthermore, the rose acts as a salient image drawing the reader's attention to the flower, highlighting that the individual's discovery of new worlds is very significant for the individual. Be sure to properly conclude. The analysis here isn't as strong as above, try to achieve a balance.

About a 3/5 seems right for this response; I'm looking for stronger links to Discovery and how it is portrayed with techniques! Also be sure to achieve a balance between your two texts; you might find this easier if you don't pick the visual text! Normally it's a little difficult to use this in the 5 marker

Oh, I'll tie this in here because it's the same topic: See above. The image normally doesn't work as well, based on what I've seen

You should choose whichever text gives you the most techniques to talk about, and that you feel confident linking to Discovery!

Thanks jamon ! and yea i tend to use the visual texts because i find it easier to write about 

[jamonwindeyer]

Hey lysscass,

The 5-6 marker should be a mini essay yes. The rest of them are just general accurate guidelines. But these are not true guidelines for everyone.

Consider this. The amount written in the HSC is directly proportional to the marks allocated. (You can work this out mathematically if you really must, but im not that anal)

Say you write 4 lines for a 2 marker. You should hence write 6 lines for a 3 marker and 10 lines for a 5 marker. (12 for a 6 mk)
But, what if you write 6 lines for a 2 marker? Then this ups the 5 marker to 15 lines. (18 lines if it is 6mks).

But people rarely follow that pattern.. Just keep in mind you dont need to write 1/2 a page for the 2 marker, but you should be writing more than 1/2 a page for the 5-6 marker.

Hope this helps and goodluck for tomorrow everyone

Thinking mathematically, I don't think we can assume the relationship is linear. I'd write about twice as much for a 3 marker as I would for a 2  marker, then more than twice as much as that for a 5 marker. This seems a little strange, but it is actually more difficult to get marks in the 5 marker; if you wrote 4 lines for the 2 marker, that's fine. But extrapolating that to 10 lines for the 5 marker doesn't work; 10 lines is too short for a 5 marker.

I think it is best to get an intuitive feel for these sort of things; which comes from doing past papers and getting feedback. Obviously that doesn't work now, so instead, just use common sense as study buddy has suggested. A couple of lines for 1-2 marks, solid paragraphs for 3-4, and mini essays (with or without intro/conclusion depending on preference) for 5 or 6

[daatarz]

Considering my writing does a 1000 word essay in 6 pages, how much do you think I'd need to write within for a 5 marker?

Also, is it ok to reuse techniques for the 5 marker, and if you do is there any repercussions in terms of marking (e.g. get marked harsher?). I often find myself wasting time in comprehension and usually taking up 45 minutes because I write too much, for previous questions I'll obviously just need to cut down analysis somewhat.
I got a 14 in trials but found myself strapped for time, especially in regards to the last question because I was trying to find new techniques/evidence.

[birdwing341]

Hi Jamon! I was wondering if you could mark my response to the short answer just to see the level that I'm on for the final exam.

This was the question: Analyse the ways composers represent the positive aspects of unexpected discoveries. (6 marks)

Dante, author of text two, and Tredinnick, writer of text three, convey the positive impacts of unexpected discoveries. Text two suggests that despite initial apprehension, unexpected discoveries have the potential to engage and enlighten whilst text three examines the powerful ramifications of unexpected discoveries in challenging our views on the world.

Dante represents the positive aspects of unexpected discoveries in their ability to engage and enlighten despite initial apprehension. Initially he notices 'Midway along our road of life I woke/to find myself in a secret dark wood', in which the inclusive pronoun 'our' invites responders to experience his thoughts, initially of apprehension in the negative connotations of the 'dark wood'. Yet this is juxtaposed with the word 'secret' ironically suggesting the capacity of unexpected discoveries to reveal what is unknown. Soon he realises, 'Yet there I found my share of good', the surprised tone clearly drawing attention to the word 'good' and dispelling his initial apprehension. Furthermore the rigid structure and the repetitive rhyme scheme engender a flow within the poem's ideas, using rhyming pairs in particular, 'there...unaware', to emphasise the positive emotional experiences of the discovery, elucidating their ability to engage the discoverer. ultimately, Dante notices 'Yet when I looked up, saw the hill's wings with their clean early light', symbolically suggesting the power of unexpected discoveries to enlighten by the connotations of 'clean early light' of illumination, and referencing his body position of looking up to emphasise his engagement with the world arisen from his discovery. Thus Dante depicts the positive aspects of unexpected discoveries in engaging and enlightening discoverers.

Text three examines the positive ramifications of an unexpected discovery in affirming our views on the world around us. Tredinnick's immediate response to the book was 'I went outside and was shocked to find the world still living on', using emotive language to encompass his engagement with the book as he is ironically surprised to find the world still living on. Such as the powerful nature of his discovery that he likens it to 'coming away from a cathedral or a canyon or the birth of a child', utilising a tricolon to emphasise the positive experiences of the discovery and the connotations of the words to suggest his wonder at the discovery. Yet he notes the book is 'terrible beauty', in which the oxymoron contrast the terrible nature of the book's depiction of the world to its beauty in allowing Tredinnick views on the world around him to be affirmed. Thus he concludes 'McCarthy's novel celebrates and allows us to defend...[this miraculous world] against all hope', utilising hyperbolic and inclusive language to emphasises the potential of unexpected discoveries to affirm our perceptions of the world.

Thus text two, which examines the engaging and enlightening nature of unexpected discoveries, and text three, which examines the powerful capacity of unexpected discoveries to affirm world views, both depict the positive impacts of unexpected discoveries.

Thanks in advance

[kevin217]

Considering my writing does a 1000 word essay in 6 pages, how much do you think I'd need to write within for a 5 marker?

Also, is it ok to reuse techniques for the 5 marker, and if you do is there any repercussions in terms of marking (e.g. get marked harsher?). I often find myself wasting time in comprehension and usually taking up 45 minutes because I write too much, for previous questions I'll obviously just need to cut down analysis somewhat.
I got a 14 in trials but found myself strapped for time, especially in regards to the last question because I was trying to find new techniques/evidence.

Just to add onto this. Can I ask the mods if any yous just rewrote word for word your analysis for the 5 marker. If not do you reckon its still a viable technique to do so?

[jamonwindeyer]

Considering my writing does a 1000 word essay in 6 pages, how much do you think I'd need to write within for a 5 marker?

Hey! You would probably want the equivalent of two really solid body paragraphs, about two booklet pages is what I suggest for most people (and it sounds like it would suit you too)

Also, is it ok to reuse techniques for the 5 marker, and if you do is there any repercussions in terms of marking (e.g. get marked harsher?). I often find myself wasting time in comprehension and usually taking up 45 minutes because I write too much, for previous questions I'll obviously just need to cut down analysis somewhat.
I got a 14 in trials but found myself strapped for time, especially in regards to the last question because I was trying to find new techniques/evidence.

You can definitely re-use techniques from the earlier parts of the question, that is absolutely fine

Just to add onto this. Can I ask the mods if any yous just rewrote word for word your analysis for the 5 marker. If not do you reckon its still a viable technique to do so?

I didn't, because usually the concept will be slightly different and require a bit of a different approach. I'd suggest writing it differently to suit

[jamonwindeyer]

Hi Jamon! I was wondering if you could mark my response to the short answer just to see the level that I'm on for the final exam.

Hey birdwing, sure thing!! I've popped your response in the spoiler below so you can reference it with my comments at the bottom:

Question: Analyse the ways composers represent the positive aspects of unexpected discoveries. (6 marks)

Spoiler

Dante, author of text two, and Tredinnick, writer of text three, convey the positive impacts of unexpected discoveries. Text two suggests that despite initial apprehension, unexpected discoveries have the potential to engage and enlighten whilst text three examines the powerful ramifications of unexpected discoveries in challenging our views on the world.

Dante represents the positive aspects of unexpected discoveries in their ability to engage and enlighten despite initial apprehension. Initially he notices 'Midway along our road of life I woke/to find myself in a secret dark wood', in which the inclusive pronoun 'our' invites responders to experience his thoughts, initially of apprehension in the negative connotations of the 'dark wood'. Yet this is juxtaposed with the word 'secret' ironically suggesting the capacity of unexpected discoveries to reveal what is unknown. Soon he realises, 'Yet there I found my share of good', the surprised tone clearly drawing attention to the word 'good' and dispelling his initial apprehension. Furthermore the rigid structure and the repetitive rhyme scheme engender a flow within the poem's ideas, using rhyming pairs in particular, 'there...unaware', to emphasise the positive emotional experiences of the discovery, elucidating their ability to engage the discoverer. ultimately, Dante notices 'Yet when I looked up, saw the hill's wings with their clean early light', symbolically suggesting the power of unexpected discoveries to enlighten by the connotations of 'clean early light' of illumination, and referencing his body position of looking up to emphasise his engagement with the world arisen from his discovery. Thus Dante depicts the positive aspects of unexpected discoveries in engaging and enlightening discoverers.

Text three examines the positive ramifications of an unexpected discovery in affirming our views on the world around us. Tredinnick's immediate response to the book was 'I went outside and was shocked to find the world still living on', using emotive language to encompass his engagement with the book as he is ironically surprised to find the world still living on. Such as the powerful nature of his discovery that he likens it to 'coming away from a cathedral or a canyon or the birth of a child', utilising a tricolon to emphasise the positive experiences of the discovery and the connotations of the words to suggest his wonder at the discovery. Yet he notes the book is 'terrible beauty', in which the oxymoron contrast the terrible nature of the book's depiction of the world to its beauty in allowing Tredinnick views on the world around him to be affirmed. Thus he concludes 'McCarthy's novel celebrates and allows us to defend...[this miraculous world] against all hope', utilising hyperbolic and inclusive language to emphasises the potential of unexpected discoveries to affirm our perceptions of the world.

Thus text two, which examines the engaging and enlightening nature of unexpected discoveries, and text three, which examines the powerful capacity of unexpected discoveries to affirm world views, both depict the positive impacts of unexpected discoveries.

Comments:
- Excellent introduction. If you are going to do it separately, this is EXACTLY what you should be doing. Fantastic
- Great analysis throughout, you've packed a HEAP of techniques into this space, outstanding
- Be sure to not approach the analysis in the style of a "then this happened" sort of thing. At times you tiptoed the line; just try to keep it as abstract as possible!
- Be careful that your paragraphs match your intro; note the word "challenged" vs "affirmed" for Text 3
- Analysis in the second paragraph is less effective than the first, because you don't abstract your analysis to what the audience learns about Discovery in general, not just within the text
- Excellent conclusion!

Mark: 5.5/6

This is fantastic work birdwing, if you approach the big question like this tomorrow, you'll almost definitely score full marks