General Discussion => General Discussion Boards => News and Politics => Topic started by: Glasses on January 02, 2018, 08:47:15 pm
Title: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Glasses on January 02, 2018, 08:47:15 pm
With California recently legalising cannabis for recreational use, the media have raised the question of whether Australia should also consider legalising cannabis.
What do you think?
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: TheSapaInca on January 02, 2018, 09:04:16 pm
With California recently legalising cannabis for recreational use, the media have raised the question of whether Australia should also consider legalising cannabis.
What do you think?
The only thing I want to contribute is that I believe marijuana/cannabis should be only used for medical purposes.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: PhoenixxFire on January 02, 2018, 09:11:00 pm
I’m kind of torn on this. I definitly don’t think drug use is a good idea, but having it criminalised makes it a lot harder for people who do use it to get help. I’m on the ‘drugs are a social/health problem not a criminal one’ team. I guess I don’t think it should be decriminalised for recreational use, as I feel like that would make more people smoke it because it’s ‘cool’ and they have access to it but I’m sort of on the fence.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Sine on January 02, 2018, 09:12:43 pm
No longer need to see the green doctors on venice beach ;) JK
I like the legalisation given the harsh penalties and racial discrimination associated with those who go to jail for posession. Although not 100% on the motives since they will tax it.
In an ideal world yes I agree with the above that it should only be used medically.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: EEEEEEP on January 02, 2018, 09:21:23 pm
Crime down! Less youth in jail! More revenue! OVerdosing down! .. These two countries reflect that a different model on drugs (cannabis included) is needed and that benefits can be gained from decriminalising drugs!
In those countries, since drugs are cheaper and legal, people do not have to go to shady warehouses and gangs do not fight over getting access to rivalry gang's warehouses.
The benefit of legalising it (less crime, less gangs, more tax)..etc.. gives a few really good reasons to legalise it. This notion is also supported by history.. if you make something illegal, people will try to get it with any means.. even violence, just look at the US and when they tried to ban alcohol.
i support the legalisation of Cannabis for recreation in it's full. =) ... I am not pro drugs or anything... it's just that well banning anything never works and it creates a black market .... also it is a soft drug (less easy to get addicted).
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: sudodds on January 02, 2018, 09:28:21 pm
Definitely an interesting topic!
I am for at the very least the decriminalisation of cannabis. My view is similar to PhoenixxFire, addiction (to any drug) should be treated as an illness, rather than a crime (those who sell or distribute illegal drugs however...). If it came to a vote, I believe that I would vote in favour of legalisation of cannabis, even for recreational purposes. This is mainly because marijuana is less dangerous than other legal substances - namely alcohol. It's not only less likely to kill you (very difficult to overdose on weed unless you have allergies or a pre-existing condition whose symptoms can be exacerbated by cannabis), but you're also less likely to hurt others (I've personally never heard of a pot-head going out and king hitting someone, however drunk people are implicated in this behaviour all the time).
Definitely should be regulated in some way, but imo thats another reason why legalising it is a good thing - it can be regulated. Whereas right now the government has little control over who has access, how much they have access to, and whether or not the weed is (unsuspectingly) laced with other substances, if it was to be made legal and people could purchase it over the counter that actually makes it overall safer for the community (even if there are more people who recreationally smoke weed, in the same way that people recreationally consume other drugs like alcohol and tabacco).
At the same time though - don't think is should be encouraged. People should still know that any drug is not "safe" to use, and that it can have negative consequences on physical and mental health. Though it may be less likely than with other, stronger drugs, you can still become addicted to cannabis, and when it gets to that point, avenues for help must be open an available.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: TheSapaInca on January 02, 2018, 09:29:15 pm
Crime down! Less youth in jail! More revenue! OVerdosing down! .. These two countries reflect that a different model on drugs (cannabis included) is needed and that benefits can be gained from decriminalising drugs!
In those countries, since drugs are cheaper and legal, people do not have to go to shady warehouses and gangs do not fight over getting access to rivalry gang's warehouses.
The benefit of legalising it (less crime, less gangs, more tax)..etc.. gives a few really good reasons to legalise it.
i support the legalisation of Cannabis for recreation in it's full.
Ok, put don't people grow it already in backyards? What recreation do they even use it for? Why do they do it? + How easy to you think it will be for gangs to get cannibal if it is only for medical purposes? The cannibal will probably be growing somewhere heavily armed and owned by government or something. You had this disagreement with Euthanasia I read before but I do realise there are different opinions.
But there is a point of cannabis.. That sudodds has raised. There is actually no dangerous thing about cannabis that I can think of. So I do not know what side to be on know.
MOD EDIT (sudodds): I just merged your post. If you want to add something extra to a previous post, you can always click edit :)
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: EEEEEEP on January 02, 2018, 09:37:12 pm
I’m kind of torn on this. I definitly don’t think drug use is a good idea, but having it criminalised makes it a lot harder for people who do use it to get help. I’m on the ‘drugs are a social/health problem not a criminal one’ team. I guess I don’t think it should be decriminalised for recreational use, as I feel like that would make more people smoke it because it’s ‘cool’ and they have access to it but I’m sort of on the fence.
People will make their own decisions as to whether they should do it.. but research shows that legalising drugs only results in less people taking it,
... All research and news points to the fact that drug legalisation > law enforcement and prohibition.
If legalising drugs results in less overdosing , usage (meaning less medical bills).. .what's a good reason not to legalise it?
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Glasses on January 02, 2018, 09:47:27 pm
I can see both sides of the argument, but ultimately I am in favour of legalisation for the following reasons:
1. I believe legalisation would result in cannabis use being treated from a medical perspective and as a health problem, rather than a legal problem. I think it would also allow for a greater focus on drug education and treatment (if necessary). I'll also note that I believe all forms of drug addiction should generally be treated medically, not legally. E.g. Someone addicted to heroin shouldn't have the book thrown at them in the courts, but instead, should be able to receive the medical treatment they need to get their life back on track, without the fear of legal repercussions. 2. Legalisation appears to have had a number of health, legal and economic benefits in places such as the Netherlands where this has occurred. 3. Whilst there is some (uncertain) evidence regarding a possible correlation between cannabis use and mental illness, the impacts of alcohol and cigarettes appear to be far more negative and severe. So in my opinion, it is illogical to legalise these and not cannabis. Additionally, and as shown through the legalisation of medicinal cannabis in Victoria, cannabis use can have some benefits. 4. Legalisation should allow cannabis use to be properly regulated - thus making cannabis use much safer than it is at the moment, and allowing people to use it without having to spend excessive amounts of money (and possibly having to commit crime to obtain such money).
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: PhoenixxFire on January 02, 2018, 09:59:00 pm
@Sudodds
You described how I feel, only much better than I did, the only thing that puts me off is the wording of the question 'for recreational use' sounds like its encouraging it. I do think it should be decriminalised though.
Also legislation is different to decriminalisation, the wording just feels too encouraging to me.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: sudodds on January 02, 2018, 10:35:27 pm
You described how I feel, only much better than I did, the only thing that puts me off is the wording of the question 'for recreational use' sounds like its encouraging it. I do think it should be decriminalised though.
Also legislation is different to decriminalisation, the wording just feels too encouraging to me.
Definitely see how the wording "recreational" can be interpreted in that way! I think the reason why I'm comfortable with it is because I don't view it as any more dangerous than other legal drugs like alcohol (alcohol has a medicinal use, however very rarely - if ever - do people make the argument that it should be reserved for medical purposes). The argument can be made that alcohol has been acceptable for centuries, accounting for its more widespread acceptance, however weed was actually similar until only quite recently in history! If people are interested, here is a fun (but pretty enlightening video) that explains a lot of my thoughts.
Personally, I don't necessarily see it as an encouragement, but more of an acceptance and tolerance of a regulated form of it. However, again, definitely can see how it can be interpreted in that way :) I'd be happy at the very least if it was decriminalised, just believe it makes sense to go further.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: LifeisaConstantStruggle on January 02, 2018, 10:55:21 pm
I believe that the war on drugs, and any prohibition of the recreational or medical use of it, has resulted in more negative consequences than it was supposed to. 1) By prohibiting the use of certain types of drugs we sort of created a taboo for mentioning it, let alone investigate and do research on these substances. (schedule 1 drugs such as LSD and cannabis may have a lot of medicinal properties that we might not know of yet, such as treating PTSD and other mental illnesses, a lot of these research on the positive effects of these substances could not commence under the facilitation of institutes because of anti-drug laws) 2) What most countries have failed to do, is effectively educate their people on the use of drugs and negative consequences due to addiction and overdose from a young age. We are responsible of changing that in the future, I'm sure, and that could be more beneficial than harsh punishments and prohibitions on drugs, which has definitely slowed down scientific development. (sadly) With that being said, I believe that the decriminalisation of marijuana for recreational purposes is definitely okay.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Glasses on January 02, 2018, 11:15:58 pm
I believe that the war on drugs, and any prohibition of the recreational or medical use of it, has resulted in more negative consequences than it was supposed to. 1) By prohibiting the use of certain types of drugs we sort of created a taboo for mentioning it, let alone investigate and do research on these substances.
I couldn't agree with this more!
I remember in school when we were learning about drugs, basically all illicit drugs were kinda grouped together and labelled as extremely harmful and life threatening - despite this actually not being the case; e.g. the effects of ice simply cannot be compared to those of cannabis. I therefore think it's important to learn about and research different drugs individually, and without simply thinking that because they are illegal, they're going to kill you.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Russ on January 02, 2018, 11:18:37 pm
I’m kind of torn on this. I definitly don’t think drug use is a good idea, but having it criminalised makes it a lot harder for people who do use it to get help. I’m on the ‘drugs are a social/health problem not a criminal one’ team. I guess I don’t think it should be decriminalised for recreational use, as I feel like that would make more people smoke it because it’s ‘cool’ and they have access to it but I’m sort of on the fence.
You can support decriminalisation but not legalisation of a drug, that's a common position. Drug policy has multiple arms and the criminal justice aspect of supply/demand reduction is part of this, as is ensuring there is a harm reduction process in place for active users. I think it's not unreasonable to believe that there is a role for the law in managing drug use.
(as an aside, the bar for legalisation of 'safer than tobacco or alcohol' is really low)
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: brenden on January 02, 2018, 11:41:19 pm
If it’s good for the economy, bad for drug dealers, and doesn’t cause harm to members of the public... why not?
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Professor Polonsky on January 05, 2018, 05:39:48 am
I fail to see many potential downside from legalising cannabis. It is likely to lead to the formation of a powerful industry. We already have big tobacco, big alcohol, big gambling and big sugar. On the other hand, its lesser relative addictivity and overall harm means I’m less concerned about it. The benefits have been canvassed in other posts.
The argument for criminalisation is that it reduces supply. While it’s likely that the product will be somewhat cheaper post-legalisation (based on overseas experience, perhaps even half-price), cannabis is sufficiently cheap already that I doubt there are very many people who want to get high but can not afford to. I doubt that legalisation would at all lead to significantly heightened usage rates.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 17, 2018, 10:36:46 pm
I'm faulty certain it causes Schizophrenia or is a trigger at least if a developing brain uses it.
I'm all for criminalising it more tbh.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Mada438 on March 17, 2018, 10:48:46 pm
Okay well, cannabis=marijuanilla and I've heard many stories about it using legitimately for medical use and actually WORKING so if it's helping people, then why the heck would you criminalise it?? illicit drug or not, if its helping people with medical conditions then it should be perfectly legal!
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: PhoenixxFire on March 17, 2018, 11:03:52 pm
Okay well, cannabis=marijuanilla and I've heard many stories about it using legitimately for medical use and actually WORKING so if it's helping people, then why the heck would you criminalise it?? illicit drug or not, if its helping people with medical conditions then it should be perfectly legal!
Medical marijuana is slightly different. I don’t remember how exactly, i think recreational marijuana has more THC (the chemical that causes the high) and medical marijuana has more CBD.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 18, 2018, 01:20:37 am
Okay well, cannabis=marijuanilla and I've heard many stories about it using legitimately for medical use and actually WORKING so if it's helping people, then why the heck would you criminalise it?? illicit drug or not, if its helping people with medical conditions then it should be perfectly legal!
Big difference from using it when it's needed as a medicine and recreational use.
I don't know why people don't make that distinction, you need a prescription for many types of medication don't you?
Anyway anything smoked isn't healthy for the lungs marijuana or otherwise.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Cornrow Kenny on March 18, 2018, 01:35:15 am
Entitled to your opinion, but I'm sure you could come up with a better reason than that.
You need a bigger reason than that? It's not exactly a small mental disorder
Epidemiological studies have found a strong correlation between cannabis use and the risk of psychosis, and found the risk is higher with strains higher in THC
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Glasses on March 18, 2018, 02:38:49 pm
You need a bigger reason than that? It's not exactly a small mental disorder
Epidemiological studies have found a strong correlation between cannabis use and the risk of psychosis, and found the risk is higher with strains higher in THC
Studies regarding the possible link between marijuana use and schizophrenia have actually presented conflicting and uncertain results.
However, even if there is a correlation, studies have shown that it is very small. For example, the research of Radhakrishnan et al. suggests that only heavy marijuana users are slightly more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia.
It's also important to note that contrary to what governments may say, there is no convincing evidence that marijuana actually causes brain damage; e.g. Hall & Degenhardt (2014). In fact, some studies have even found that marijuana may have neuroprotective effects - e.g. Nguyen and colleagues (2014).
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Poet on March 18, 2018, 02:45:22 pm
I find this an extremely difficult topic to choose a side on.
Personally, I would not support it for recreational use. No matter how people try and justify it, cannabis/marijuana is still a potentially harmful substance. Especially if studies are conflicting, who's to say which side is correct in their assumptions? Even if it does not kill people, there is still the potential of damage being done. No matter how minor the risks, there are still people out there who could be affected negatively, or become addicted, even if there is a low chance. Increased risk of lung cancer? What about pregnant women? I believe it would be better to support the medical use, and I would probably decriminalise it because that inhibits the actions of drug dealers and the black market, but I would not be inclined to encourage its distribution to the wider population as a recreational substance.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: dankfrank420 on March 18, 2018, 03:05:24 pm
If you don't support support legalisation but think that cigarettes, fast food and alcohol are ok, then you are a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Poet on March 18, 2018, 03:12:49 pm
If you don't support support legalisation but think that cigarettes, fast food and alcohol are ok, then you are a hypocrite.
Hi dankfrank420, Who was this message directed to? Why do you think this? What about these things you have listed makes a person a hypocrite for not agreeing with the use of cannabis? If you make a statement, please make sure that you have arguments that can back it up and will contribute to the discussion. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: K888 on March 18, 2018, 03:22:25 pm
Hi dankfrank420, Who was this message directed to? Why do you think this? What about these things you have listed makes a person a hypocrite for not agreeing with the use of cannabis? If you make a statement, please make sure that you have arguments that can back it up and will contribute to the discussion. Thanks. :)
I believe they're probably referring to the fact that cigarettes are known to cause lung cancer and many other health issues and alcohol causes the largest amount of deaths out of all legal and illegal drugs - I would imagine they're saying that these substances are legal yet have been shown to cause harm (not only to the user, but to the community too) whilst the recreational use of marijuana is illegal.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: EEEEEEP on March 18, 2018, 03:25:48 pm
If you don't support support legalisation but think that cigarettes, fast food and alcohol are ok, then you are a hypocrite.
No, no no. I've heard that stance before. Are you really going to compare fast food and alcohol to hard drugs?
Cigarettes, fast food and alcohol... they take years off your life, but no... they don't have that sort of instant impact. Drugs are another class of substances which will screw you over in many ways... worse than alcohol and the others.
Drugs are a different sort of beast ^^.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Yertle the Turtle on March 18, 2018, 03:29:28 pm
If you legalise cannabis, then impressionable young people will begin to think that drugs are OK because they are legal. They are not OK. They can be severely damaging, and should be cracked down on even more than they are, imo. Similarly I think we should ban cigarettes, and phase out alcohol, but many will disagree with me. I don't have a problem with fast food though, but in moderation.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: EEEEEEP on March 18, 2018, 03:35:17 pm
If you legalise cannabis, then impressionable young people will begin to think that drugs are OK because they are legal. They are not OK. They can be severely Damaging
This has been proven wrong =). In fact the opposite is shown to be true. The more you ban it, the more people will try to get their hands on it (as it is THAT mysterious).
Studies in the US (some states), Europe and other parts of the world show that legalisation of Cannabis and other drugs actually results in lower amounts of usage and deaths. Refer to this post (and the embedded links) :D https://atarnotes.com/forum/index.php?topic=176254.msg1015035#msg1015035
- Far fewer arrests for minor drug offenses occur. - The country has 3 overdose deaths per million citizens, compared to the EU average of 17.3 - Lighter enforcement did not lead to more drug use. About 25.7 percent of Dutch citizens reported having used marijuana at least once, which is on par with the European average. In the comparatively strict United Kingdom, the rate is 30.2 percent and in the United States it is a whopping 41.9 percent.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: K888 on March 18, 2018, 03:37:23 pm
If you legalise cannabis, then impressionable young people will begin to think that drugs are OK because they are legal. They are not OK. They can be severely damaging, and should be cracked down on even more than they are, imo. Similarly I think we should ban cigarettes, and phase out alcohol, but many will disagree with me. I don't have a problem with fast food though, but in moderation.
I mean, people still use drugs even though they're not legal. It's not like they're about to shoot up then go "noooo wait this is illegal, I won't do it". With the illicit factor added in, there's also the element of risk which can appeal to younger people, plus there's also the perception in some circles that it's a cool thing to do.
All the criminalisation of drug use achieves is that it's harder for those addicted to substances or having problems with substance abuse to receive the appropriate help. Decriminalisation allows people to seek help more easily, and to use substances in a more safe and controlled environment.
I wonder how different the world would be if there were companies manufacturing drugs that had the same lobbying power that alcohol and cigarette companies have.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Calebark on March 18, 2018, 03:44:02 pm
No, no no. I've heard that stance before. Are you really going to compare fast food and alcohol to hard drugs?
Cigarettes, fast food and alcohol... they take years off your life, but no... they don't have that sort of instant impact. Drugs are another class of substances which will screw you over in many ways... worse than alcohol and the others.
Drugs are a different sort of beast ^^.
Just a small note to make that cannabis isn't really considered a hard drug, but alcohol is. Hard drugs are just something that are more likely to cause physically addiction. That said, it's more of a street term, and not overly scientific, but I just felt the need to be a pompous ass and correct anyway :)
If you legalise cannabis, then impressionable young people will begin to think that drugs are OK because they are legal. They are not OK. They can be severely damaging, and should be cracked down on even more than they are, imo. Similarly I think we should ban cigarettes, and phase out alcohol, but many will disagree with me. I don't have a problem with fast food though, but in moderation.
I mean, people still use drugs even though they're not legal. It's not like they're about to shoot up then go "noooo wait this is illegal, I won't do it". With the illicit factor added in, there's also the element of risk which can appeal to younger people, plus there's also the perception in some circles that it's a cool thing to do.
All the criminalisation of drug use achieves is that it's harder for those addicted to substances or having problems with substance abuse to receive the appropriate help. Decriminalisation allows people to seek help more easily, and to use substances in a more safe and controlled environment.
I wonder how different the world would be if there were companies manufacturing drugs that had the same lobbying power that alcohol and cigarette companies have.
Definitely going to agree with K888 here. Drugs are more of a health issue rather than a criminal issue. Your body knows what healthy and what isn't, but the law has the habit of picking and choosing. I don't really agree with cracking down on drugs (I favour rehabilitation over criminal sentencing for users). I mean, I've had to seek help with drugs before. If the law was more harsh, perhaps my life would be very different right now -- I wouldn't even be typing this.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Glasses on March 18, 2018, 03:47:50 pm
No, no no. I've heard that stance before. Are you really going to compare fast food and alcohol to hard drugs?
Cigarettes, fast food and alcohol... they take years off your life, but no... they don't have that sort of instant impact. Drugs are another class of substances which will screw you over in many ways... worse than alcohol and the others.
Drugs are a different sort of beast ^^.
I understand why you say that, however not all drugs can be grouped together. In fact, I'd argue that alcohol is a more dangerous drug than marijuana - given the health and social impacts of alcohol.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Poet on March 18, 2018, 03:52:16 pm
I believe they're probably referring to the fact that cigarettes are known to cause lung cancer and many other health issues and alcohol causes the largest amount of deaths out of all legal and illegal drugs - I would imagine they're saying that these substances are legal yet have been shown to cause harm (not only to the user, but to the community too) whilst the recreational use of marijuana is illegal.
I mean, people still use drugs even though they're not legal. It's not like they're about to shoot up then go "noooo wait this is illegal, I won't do it". With the illicit factor added in, there's also the element of risk which can appeal to younger people, plus there's also the perception in some circles that it's a cool thing to do.
All the criminalisation of drug use achieves is that it's harder for those addicted to substances or having problems with substance abuse to receive the appropriate help. Decriminalisation allows people to seek help more easily, and to use substances in a more safe and controlled environment.
This is a good point. With decriminalisation of cannabis, this could lead to more safe and reliable sources of the drug and rehabilitation would be a lot more open a concept. I do believe however, that if our country is to legalise any drug that was previously labelled illicit, we must have studies that do not contradict each other and the reassurance that no unknown harm could come to those who use it. We need to be cautious with this, but if alcohol is considered a hard drug and cannabis is not, what's the problem? We don't imprison people for possession of alcohol unless it is in specific situations, and yet alcohol is just as inhibiting a substance as marijuana.
No matter what anyone does, people will always make their own decisions as to what they want to do, and whether they wish to take the drugs or not. I don't believe that the amount of people using cannabis would change; only the dynamics of the market.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: dankfrank420 on March 18, 2018, 08:10:52 pm
Firstly, cannabis is not a "hard drug" at all.
Secondly, let's consider what I compared cannabis to. Alcohol makes you violent, causes you to lose control of your senses, is linked to family and domestic violence and causes numerous diseases. Cigarettes are known to cause numerous types of cancers. Fast food is linked to heart problems and obesity.
Of course, cannabis has its problems too (although I question how many people actually have an understanding for what it does, reading some of the ridiculous posts here. EEEP, you conflating cannabis with all drugs is laughable).
My point was that if you think cannabis should be banned because it causes some negative effects (like the desire to smash down a box of tim-tams), then you should ban everything else I listed.
They are all vices - the fact that some are "legal" and others aren't doesn't make a drug inherently bad or good.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Potatohater on March 18, 2018, 08:23:31 pm
My point was that if you think cannabis should be banned because it causes some negative effects (like the desire to smash down a box of tim-tams), then you should ban everything else I listed.
To add to this, we can't just ban things that have potential to cause us harm. Everything can kill us. somethings more so than others, but weed is not one of those things. If y'all watch the video Susie attatched earlier it explains that weed is responsible for 0 deaths thus far. Just because something is harmful doesn't mean it should be criminalised because people have their own free will to makes descisions for themselves and what they do to thier bodies. If we didn't, we'd be living in a nanny state. If the government really wanted to protect us that much not only would cigarettes and alcohol be banned as well, but also vaccination would be compulsory because even anti-vaxer's are more of a threat to society than the recreational use of weed.
Note: my comment on vaccination is not an excuse to derail the thread, if you have a problem with my stance on the issue, please make a seperate thread.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: sudodds on March 18, 2018, 08:56:02 pm
They are all vices - the fact that some are "legal" and others aren't doesn't make a drug inherently bad or good.
I agree. It's very interesting when you consider *why* cannabis out of all of these substances you mentioned was singled out as the criminal one as well - essentially racism (primarily against Mexicans and African Americans) and really dodgy politics. I really do recommend people watch the video I linked about a page or so back, it explains a lot of this (also 'Adam Ruins Everything' is just a gem in and of itself). If you can't be bothered though, here is a kicker of a quote, from President Nixon's (the guy who basically launched the war on drugs) Domestic Policy Chief John Ehrlichman.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."
(Just to clarify before someone inevitably misconstrues my point - I'm not at all saying that being against marijuana means you are racist, but I do think it is important to acknowledge that our understanding of the substance has been tainted by A LOT of intentionally misleading information, some of which is really nefarious. Again, really recommend watching the video, it's super interesting, and entertaining!)
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 18, 2018, 11:17:04 pm
Tried fixing the typos idk what happened lol.
I just don't see the appeal of cannabis honestly too many side effects and risk factors.
Studies aren't exactly damning but evidence exists for the negative effects
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: vox nihili on March 18, 2018, 11:58:15 pm
Just going to jump in and add some weight to the argument that on an individual and population level alcohol is a more harmful drug than cannabis. The evidence to support that statement is overwhelming.
As has been pointed out, the perception that cannabis is more harmful than alcohol is largely rooted in our cultural (by that I mean the dominant Anglo-Saxon culture in Australia) beliefs. These beliefs are inconsistent with the evidence.
That is not to say, however, that cannabis is not harmful. It is still a deeply harmful substance, in particular for THC’s capacity to trigger psychosis and as a risk factor for schizophrenia, which is truly devastating. That legalisation of cannabis is sensible because alcohol is legalised is a moot point and one that fails to appreciate the cultural context. Prohibition of alcohol didn’t work because it is so grounded in our culture. Cannabis is not, so the argument that prohibition doesn’t work is less convincing.
There are, however, some good examples of legalisation effecting a decrease in the burden of disease attributable to cannabis. This mainly occurs because it allows for people to access health services more easily and takes the production of cannabis products away from criminal organisations. Whether this would be applicable to Australia is a challenging question and one I don’t think we can answer yet.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 19, 2018, 12:23:51 am
Prohibition actually cut alcohol usage by quite a bit contrary to popular belief I think it was around a 3rd but I digress.
I'm not a hypocrite, and if It were up to me I would ban smoking, alcohol in excess ( basically a cap on number of drinks bought per customer or served I nbads ) and cannabis for recreational use across the board. With cannabis being third on that list in order of importance.
So while it's true that other more harmful alternatives exist I don't think we should use that as an excuse to open the floodgates to everything.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: heids on March 19, 2018, 08:57:32 am
My sense with any issue like this is - we can come up with all the evidence and ideas we like but its impact is still an unknown. My gut automatically goes for decriminalisation but like - there's no way I could ever have enough evidence of the subtle ramifications in so many directions to actually weigh up the good and bad of it. I think we have to make most such choices on loose probabilities and hope for the best, and recognise that sometimes we'll be wrong and that will hurt lots of people.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 19, 2018, 01:15:30 pm
Well if we don't know the exact side effects cannabis has, surely the safer option would be to criminalise it until the adverse effects or lack of are made crystal clear?
Just my 2 cents, better safe than sorry
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Yertle the Turtle on March 19, 2018, 05:20:40 pm
I think that when people say that alcohol is worse for you than certain drugs, so the drugs are not a problem, we are looking at it from the wrong direction. If alcohol is harming people, then it is that that needs to be fixed. Alcohol is seriously damaging, and I think that something needs to be done about it!
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Potatohater on March 19, 2018, 06:13:03 pm
I think that when people say that alcohol is worse for you than certain drugs, so the drugs are not a problem, we are looking at it from the wrong direction. If alcohol is harming people, then it is that that needs to be fixed. Alcohol is seriously damaging, and I think that something needs to be done about it!
Awww but I like alcohol :'( Really we need to tackle the way we treat it though not the substance itself. Our culture of excessive drinking is more of a problem than the substance itself I reckon.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: vox nihili on March 19, 2018, 08:23:38 pm
Awww but I like alcohol :'( Really we need to tackle the way we treat it though not the substance itself. Our culture of excessive drinking is more of a problem than the substance itself I reckon.
There’s an element of truth to this. Alcohol itself is a really damaging substance though. We should be careful not to shy away from the fact that alcohol is inherently very harmful. This harm is enabled by a culture that normalises its use, especially in excess.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Potatohater on March 19, 2018, 08:29:36 pm
There’s an element of truth to this. Alcohol itself is a really damaging substance though. We should be careful not to shy away from the fact that alcohol is inherently very harmful. This harm is enabled by a culture that normalises its use, especially in excess.
Oh yes of course, not denying that it's harmful cause it is, just think that it would be less so if our culture didn't make it so normal
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: vox nihili on March 19, 2018, 08:32:36 pm
Yep, absolutely! If we legitimately want to reduce alcohol related harms we need to reduce consumption. Pretty simple as a principle really!
Definitely! Economically and socially!
Alcohol costs Australia 36 billion dollars a year annually (where as the tax revenue from the sales of alcohol ) are only 6 billion. $24.7 billion in tangible costs which include out-of-pocket expenses, forgone wages or productivity and hospital and childcare protection costs. There are a further $11.6 billion in intangible costs, which include lost quality of life from someone else's drinking.
Australia would be 30 billion dollars better off if we drank less.
Though, changing culture is hard. History shows that banning anything is ineffective (look at USA during the alcohol prohibition period).
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Mada438 on March 19, 2018, 08:43:38 pm
Alcohol costs Australia 36 billion dollars a year annually (where as the tax revenue from the sales of alcohol ) are only 6 billion. $24.7 billion in tangible costs which include out-of-pocket expenses, forgone wages or productivity and hospital and childcare protection costs. There are a further $11.6 billion in intangible costs, which include lost quality of life from someone else's drinking.
Australia would be 30 billion dollars better off if we drank less.
If we're going to drink less, can we also get rid of cigarettes as well??? Like seriously they're disgusting
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Cornrow Kenny on March 19, 2018, 08:56:49 pm
I just don't see the appeal of cannabis honestly too many side effects and risk factors.
Studies aren't exactly damning but evidence exists for the negative effects
Honestly I find myself disagreeing with each of your posts.
Despite the abundance of evidence for negative effects, I'm sure you eat or have eaten fast food in the past - "I just don't see the appeal of fast food". Please. That's not an argument.
I for one can see the appeal of cannabis, people thoroughly enjoy it, has medicinal benefits etc - there are very few side effects and risk factors from my past experience.
The only reasons why cannabis is illegal is due to unwarranted stigma, and perhaps fear from cigarette and alcohol companies that they would lose business.
If used in moderation would you have an issue with it?
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 19, 2018, 09:04:39 pm
Honestly I find myself disagreeing with each of your posts.
Despite the abundance of evidence for negative effects, I'm sure you eat or have eaten fast food in the past - "I just don't see the appeal of fast food". Please. That's not an argument.
I for one can see the appeal of cannabis, people thoroughly enjoy it, has medicinal benefits etc - there are very few side effects and risk factors from my past experience.
The only reasons why cannabis is illegal is due to unwarranted stigma, and perhaps fear from cigarette and alcohol companies that they would lose business.
If used in moderation would you have an issue with it?
I don't understand the fast food argument, we need food to live and we know exactly what effect it has on our bodies.
What do we need cannabis for? What use does it have? Obviously medical reasons exist but for totally healthy people we don't need it.
When you burn more calories than you consume nothing wrong with fast food it won't make you fat, lack of exercise, a slow metabolism and genetics makes you fat.
Fast food drugs does not have the potential to induce a mental phsychosis or negatively impact developing minds.
Cannabis being smoked can cause cancer specifically lung cancer that isn't really debated.
Cannabis is addicting that's another fact!
We don't know the full extent of what cannabis can do and studies are conflicting.
Better safe than sorry in all honesty and keep it banned except for those who could benefit from whatever medicinal properties it may have.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Potatohater on March 19, 2018, 09:14:23 pm
When you burn more calories than you consume nothing wrong with fast food it won't make you fat, lack of exercise, a slow metabolism and genetics makes you fat.
Actually this isn't true. You can be skinny but still be so incredibly unhealthy on the inside. The stuff that is in fast food is really bad for you and can clog arteries and cause disease, so even if you excersise a heap, fast food is still harmful in excess.
But you can't ban that because people have free will over what they eat, and it should be the same for weather or not someone decides to smoke weed or not.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 19, 2018, 09:21:50 pm
Actually this isn't true. You can be skinny but still be so incredibly unhealthy on the inside. The stuff that is in fast food is really bad for you and can clog arteries and cause disease, so even if you excersise a heap, fast food is still harmful in excess.
But you can't ban that because people have free will over what they eat, and it should be the same for weather or not someone decides to smoke weed or not.
It's not about being skinny, it's about exercising well building up muscle and burning of the calories that fast food gives you.
Even being fat you can be healthy it's not an issue about body shape.
People can have clogged arteries even eating really healthily, it's why cholesterol tablets exist and blood thinners.
I'm no nutritionist or scientist so I may be wrong but I'm certain what I've said about fast food is correct.
Of course earning it every day is handful but you know eating nothing but lettuce every day is harmful too.
Everything has potential to be handful when not done in moderation but some things are more harmful than others.
Like you can't compare fast food with crystal meth.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Yertle the Turtle on March 19, 2018, 09:22:07 pm
If we're going to drink less, can we also get rid of cigarettes as well??? Like seriously they're disgusting
So true, man, I catch the train everyday from a station that is known for being a druggo area, so it stinks of smoke all the time, and isn't really a safe place imo. Cracking down on drug abuse, drinking and smoking would improve the place no end!
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: brenden on March 19, 2018, 09:32:49 pm
I don't understand the fast food argument, we need food to live and we know exactly what effect it has on our bodies.
What do we need cannabis for? What use does it have? Obviously medical reasons exist but for totally healthy people we don't need it.
When you burn more calories than you consume nothing wrong with fast food it won't make you fat, lack of exercise, a slow metabolism and genetics makes you fat.
Fast food drugs does not have the potential to induce a mental phsychosis or negatively impact developing minds.
Cannabis being smoked can cause cancer specifically lung cancer that isn't really debated.
Cannabis is addicting that's another fact!
We don't know the full extent of what cannabis can do and studies are conflicting.
Better safe than sorry in all honesty and keep it banned except for those who could benefit from whatever medicinal properties it may have.
It's not about being skinny, it's about exercising well building up muscle and burning of the calories that fast food gives you.
Even being fat you can be healthy it's not an issue about body shape.
People can have clogged arteries even eating really healthily, it's why cholesterol tablets exist and blood thinners.
I'm no nutritionist or scientist so I may be wrong but I'm certain what I've said about fast food is correct.
Of course earning it every day is handful but you know eating nothing but lettuce every day is harmful too.
Everything has potential to be handful when not done in moderation but some things are more harmful than others.
Like you can't compare fast food with crystal meth.
You’ve truly outdone yourself. Bravo.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 19, 2018, 09:38:51 pm
I actually have no idea why I'm being downvoted lol.
You can look online even Wikipedia to see all the side effects of cannabis. Fact is our body doesn't need it when healthy.
Cannabis like most drugs is addicting and has harmful effects, why on earth would anyone want that to be made legal is beyond me.
At least fast food fills you up and is cheap, I'll take that over cannabis any day, I can definitely see why people would want a frozen coke and a 50c soft serve McDonald's ice cream on a hot day.
Much easier to downvote someone than to struggle to attempt to justify allowing kids and teens to legally purchase a potentially very harmful drug.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Potatohater on March 19, 2018, 09:39:56 pm
When you burn more calories than you consume nothing wrong with fast food it won't make you fat, lack of exercise, a slow metabolism and genetics makes you fat.
B. So I could illustrate a point. A point you clearly didn't get, so I'm gonna rephrase Junk food is bad for you because it contains lots of saturated fats. This is the reason for clogged arteries and disease. People who eat healthily don't get these diseases because thier intake of saturated fat is much less. Even if you burn off the calories there's still a health risk, hence you can appear healthy but not actually be so on the inside. Do they teach this stuff in 7-10 down in Vic? Because if you know the food groups and the food pyramid you know that fast food is amongst the smallest portion for this reason. And thus, your statements that fast food is fine so long as you burn off the calories is incorrect.
I actually have no idea why I'm being downvoted lol.
You can look online even Wikipedia to see all the side effects of cannabis. Fact is our body doesn't need it when healthy.
Cannabis like most drugs is addicting and has harmful effects, why on earth would anyone want that to be made legal is beyond me.
At least fast food fills you up and is cheap, I'll take that over cannabis any day, I can definitely see why people would want a frozen coke and a 50c soft serve McDonald's ice cream on a hot day.
Much easier to downvote someone than to struggle to attempt to justify allowing kids and teens to legally purchase a potentially very harmful drug.
The thing is, A. Wikipedia is not a reliable source B. Yes, we don't need weed, but some people just like how it makes them feel C. If you watched the Adam Ruins Everything video, it shows that weed isn't as harmful and addictive as we think D. No one is suggesting it for kids and teens, I thought this was more aimed towards young adults - next time I'm at the library I'll pick up some legit info because they have stands full of infomation on this topic that might help clear a few things up
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Calebark on March 19, 2018, 09:42:44 pm
At least fast food fills you up and is cheap, I'll take that over cannabis any day, I can definitely see why people would want a frozen coke and a 50c soft serve McDonald's ice cream on a hot day.
That's far from healthy for you. Have you considered a sugar addiction?
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: brenden on March 19, 2018, 09:46:26 pm
I actually have no idea why I'm being downvoted lol.
You're getting downvoted because you insist on arguing an irresponsible, factually incorrect and completely vacuous point of view with regards to fast food.
Just about the only thing you've got right in this thread is that it's easier to downvote you than it is to engage you in rational discussion.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Mada438 on March 19, 2018, 09:47:58 pm
I actually have no idea why I'm being downvoted lol.
You can look online even Wikipedia to see all the side effects of cannabis. Fact is our body doesn't need it when healthy.
Cannabis like most drugs is addicting and has harmful effects, why on earth would anyone want that to be made legal is beyond me.
At least fast food fills you up and is cheap, I'll take that over cannabis any day, I can definitely see why people would want a frozen coke and a 50c soft serve McDonald's ice cream on a hot day.
Much easier to downvote someone than to struggle to attempt to justify allowing kids and teens to legally purchase a potentially very harmful drug.
I think part of the problem is that you're arguing looking at Wikipedia as if it were a reputable source. It most certianly isn't. I think you need to look at more reputbale sources to back up your points. For example, i make a case for the benefits of Medical marijuana and i use this source from [b]The Harvard Medical School[/b] Might be a good place to start justifying your arguements instead of baseless statements
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 19, 2018, 10:01:55 pm
You're getting downvoted because you insist on arguing an irresponsible, factually incorrect and completely vacuous point of view with regards to fast food.
Just about the only thing you've got right in this thread is that it's easier to downvote you than it is to engage you in rational discussion.
That is because it's true. Anything in excess is bad, fast food carries unecessary stigma.
Most health experts agree that fast food in moderation does little to no harm if it's part of a blansced diet with regular excercise. These are the facts.
I think many times it's hard to dispute an unpopular opinion so people tend to downvote instead.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Potatohater on March 19, 2018, 10:05:19 pm
That is because it's true. Anything in excess is bad, fast food carries unecessary stigma.
Most health experts agree that fast food in moderation does little to no harm if it's part of a blansced diet with regular excercise. These are the facts.
I think many times it's hard to dispute an unpopular opinion so people tend to downvote instead.
It's not that it's hard to dispute your opinion beacuase obvioulsy we have the opinions we have for a reason, I think people down vote instead of rebutting because they are just tired of making rebuttals but still want to show their dislike of your points
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 19, 2018, 10:06:48 pm
I think part of the problem is that you're arguing looking at Wikipedia as if it were a reputable source. It most certianly isn't. I think you need to look at more reputbale sources to back up your points. For example, i make a case for the benefits of Medical marijuana and i use this source from [b]The Harvard Medical School[/b] Might be a good place to start justifying your arguements instead of baseless statements
Wikipedia has references and citations, very strange that people don't look at Wikipedia casually, this is not an academic essay where I need to provide peer reviewed publications.
I have never said medicinal cannabis has no place and I never doubted its benefits. The discussion is about legalising it for recreational use.
So I'm more concerned about opening the floodgates and normalising drug use.
Medicinal cannabis like prescription drugs has its use in propel who need them.
I ask what purpose does it serve for perfectly healthy people? and I get downvoted.
Morphine obviously has a medical use but we can all agree that it has harmful side effects. We would never think about legalising it for recreational use and I'm not sure why cannabis is any different
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 19, 2018, 10:09:10 pm
It's not that it's hard to dispute your opinion beacuase obvioulsy we have the opinions we have for a reason, I think people down vote instead of rebutting because they are just tired of making rebuttals but still want to show their dislike of your points
Bit hard to say they are tired of making rebuttals when the total number of rebuttals they have made is 0 lol
What I've said isn't an opinion I've given some facts.
Cannabis smoked puts you at a risk of lung cancer as anything else smoked to the lungs does.
I don't see how that's my opinion unless for some reason people need studies confirming that obvious fact
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Potatohater on March 19, 2018, 10:13:19 pm
Bit hard to say they are tired of making rebuttals when the total number of rebuttals they have made is 0 lol
Ok maybe I can't speak for other people, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has proposed conflicting opinions to yours but gotten to a point of just being too tired to reply, chucking it a down vote and moving on
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Mada438 on March 19, 2018, 10:16:04 pm
Ok maybe I can't speak for other people, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has proposed conflicting opinions to yours but gotten to a point of just being too tired to reply, chucking it a down vote and moving on
I agree-I have raised conflicting opinions and gotten to this point
That is because it's true. Anything in excess is bad, fast food carries unecessary stigma.
Most health experts agree that fast food in moderation does little to no harm if it's part of a blansced diet with regular excercise. These are the facts.
I think many times it's hard to dispute an unpopular opinion so people tend to downvote instead.
This is a disscussion about legalizing cannabis, not about the health factors relating to fast food.
I think part of the problem is that you're arguing looking at Wikipedia as if it were a reputable source. It most certianly isn't. I think you need to look at more reputbale sources to back up your points.
I don't know why people bag Wikipedia so much. It is actually a far more correct source than anyone thinks. Many of the topics are under constant watch from experts to stop incorrect editing. If there are sections that actually say "citation needed" or whatever, then steer clear of those sections. But Wikipedia is incredibly well referenced for a huge variety of topics, and if you don't trust it, then just follow up its sources! Seriously guys, the mistrust of Wikipedia is seriously over-hyped, imo! Incorrect info is taken down very quickly.
EDIT: Sorry, very off topic guys... ::)
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: EEEEEEP on March 19, 2018, 10:23:17 pm
According to the 2015 Youth Risk Behavior Survey, 21.7% of American high school students used marijuana in the past month and this rate has been consistent over the past decade.
In Washington, Colorado and Alaska, rates of marijuana use among high school students largely resemble national rates. These results are promising, suggesting that fears of widespread increases in use have not come to fruition.
Drug use has declined overall among the 15- to 24-year-old population, those most at risk of initiating drug use, according to Transform.
... The evidence is conclusive, legalising cannabis or any sort of drugs does not result in a normalisation of drugs. In fact, it stays stable or goes down.
I don't know why people bag Wikipedia so much. It is actually a far more correct source than anyone thinks. Many of the topics are under constant watch from experts to stop incorrect editing. If there are sections that actually say "citation needed" or whatever, then steer clear of those sections. But Wikipedia is incredibly well referenced for a huge variety of topics, and if you don't trust it, then just follow up its sources! Seriously guys, the mistrust of Wikipedia is seriously over-hyped, imo! Incorrect info is taken down very quickly.
EDIT: Sorry, very off topic guys... ::)
Sources okay, but the thing is .. anyone can edit wikipedia.
YOu can edit it, I can edit wikipedia. Even if the source is good, the analysis is bad.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: sudodds on March 19, 2018, 10:28:26 pm
Much easier to downvote someone than to struggle to attempt to justify allowing kids and teens to legally purchase a potentially very harmful drug.
Quote
Bit hard to say they are tired of making rebuttals when the total number of rebuttals they have made is 0 lol
Except we have? You just don't agree with us, which is fine. My justification for legalising cannabis (for people over the age of 18? I'm unsure as to where you got the impression we were suggesting minors should be exposed to any mind affecting substance), which I have already outlined, is this;
- It is provably less harmful than many other legal substances - Those who consume cannabis are typically less of a risk to others than those who consume other legal substances - Criminalisation will not stop people purchasing cannabis and using it recreationally, but it WILL reduce the number of people who will seek help if they do become dependant on the substance as they may be worried about potential criminal charges. - Criminalisation means that the cannabis currently being sold is not regulated, taxed, policed or quality controlled, meaning that it may be laced with other substances the consumer may be unaware of. - If it was legalised, we can better control how much an individual has access to. - If it was legalised, that would be a MASSIVE blow to drug dealers, who would lose most of their market.
If you disagree with the above points, that's cool! But please don't ruin what has been for the most part a pleasant, tolerant and insightful debate by delegitimising all of the people who just happen to disagree with you.
Quote
Cannabis smoked puts you at a risk of lung cancer as anything else smoked to the lungs does.
(processed meat is a grade 1 carcinogen. you know. the type of meat you find in. fast food.)
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: The Special One on March 19, 2018, 11:06:37 pm
You mean the 100% Australian beef found in McDonald's burgers?
I'm not sure why that's thought of as processed meat.
Criminalilisation definitely stops people from purchasing cannabis, Icje again I'm not sure why that's being disputed.
People cite prohibition of alcohol as a failure but it did cut alcohol consumption by a third.
Decriminalising cannabis will definitely increase the consumption of cannabis.
Also you can't be addicted to something if I've never tried it in the first place so I don't see why we should decriminalise something and then fund rehab centres. Obviously we do it for alcohol and smoking but that's historical and the fivnerment gets good money from taxes.
Why would drug dealers lose money? When people tire of cannabis they still start to ask for higher tier drugs like meth and heroine.
I don't see how I'm ruining a thread by offering an alternative point of view to the norm. I will ply devils advocate and offer an unpopular opinion. I'm not scared of any backlash, people have the right to know both sides before making a decision for themselves.
I just don't see why having people legally be stoned out of their mind is good for society as if alcohol and smoking wasn't bad enough.
I'd trust a mother who's just had fast food with kids I wouldn't trust a drunk or stoned mother with children.
Anything that affects the mind I don't trust at all, in healthy people our brain is chemically balanced and we shouldn't do anything to upset that balance especially not legalise something that has potential to.
And i minors will be using cannabis once it's legalised as it's easier to obtain. You hear of so many kids dying at schoolies from alcohol as teens drink alcohol from an early age despite needing to be 18 to purchase it.
Same will happen with cannabis. For me it's a drug which has uses medicinally when required, but that stops there.
Many government health experts have spoken about the negative health effects in detail, their stance on the issue is quite clear, and I don't see it being legalised anytime soon.
Anyway I just realised the downvoting point is a moot one as it's mainly just mods doing so lol.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Potatohater on March 19, 2018, 11:17:34 pm
You mean the 100% Australian beef found in McDonald's burgers?
I'm not sure why that's thought of as processed meat.
Ok, I'm really trying not to derail the thread but I really wanna clarify this: After having worked for a McDonald's for a year I can tell you 1st hand that meat is definatley processed. It is entirely possible for something to be 100% Aussie, as they claim, and processed at the same time.
Ultimatley though, maybe this point is worth dropping also as you have stated earlier that food and drugs are different ball parks
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: sudodds on March 19, 2018, 11:42:49 pm
I don't see how I'm ruining a thread by offering an alternative point of view to the norm. I will ply devils advocate and offer an unpopular opinion. I'm not scared of any backlash, people have the right to know both sides before making a decision for themselves.
Stating a differing view is encouraged. Listening to others views is also encouraged. Challenging each others views is encouraged. You are not ruining a thread by stating a differing opinion. If anything, granted it is well thought out, you most likely are enhancing it!
What is not encouraged is completely ignoring others opposing views, and then make a post claiming that you are clearly superior, with a bullet proof argument, that no one has been able to challenge when multiple posts in this thread provided valid arguments and information in contrast to your post already. Whether you agree with them or not - don't act as if they don't exist. That's really poor debating. THAT is ruining a thread - this is a discussion, not a lecture.
I'm not responding to the rest of your post. I disagree with you. But I am tired, and I will just be repeating the same points again and again. I support legalisation. You don't. If it ever came to a referendum we both know where the other stands. Sweet!
Just a warning that this thread is taking a bit of a turn - if it continues down this path, unfortunately we will have to lock the thread. Feel free to continue this debate, discuss and be open to new ideas, reveal your thoughts, no matter how controversial - just do so respectfully :)
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Glasses on March 20, 2018, 12:49:05 am
Why would drug dealers lose money? When people tire of cannabis they still start to ask for higher tier drugs like meth and heroine.
With all due respect, this is a ridiculously ignorant statement. There are plenty of people who consume cannabis, but who wouldn't touch drugs like heroin with a 10ft pole. Contrary to what you may think, cannabis isn't a 'gateway drug.' Additionally, (and as I expressed my concern with earlier) you're grouping all drugs, and all people who have tried/use drugs together. And the result is an uninformed understanding of drugs and drug use.
Many government health experts have spoken about the negative health effects in detail, their stance on the issue is quite clear, and I don't see it being legalised anytime soon.
I could go on about the (actual) effects of cannabis, according to peer-reviewed, legitimate studies vs. the effects of cannabis according to governments; but I feel like it's pointless at this stage. That being said, I will reiterate the fact that government 'health experts' are, for obvious reasons, likely to say that cannabis has many negative and severe health effects - as this point of view supports government policy. Instead of placing such an emphasis on what government employees have to say, I'd recommend focusing on what unbiased experts with no ulterior motives have to say on the topic.
Title: Re: Legalisation of Cannabis for recreational use?
Post by: Shanny70 on February 22, 2022, 10:01:02 pm
With California recently legalising cannabis for recreational use, the media have raised the question of whether Australia should also consider legalising cannabis.
What do you think?
I’m somewhat in the middle. I personally think drug use is problematic and criminalizing it makes users less likely to ask for help, but making it completely legal can create more problems in society. I think drugs should be looked at as a social/health problem and not a criminal one. I believe it should not be decriminalized for recreational use because I feel it will make more people smoke it, and this will happen because the recreational use of marijuana is considered "cool" by many people. I'm also a little bit on the fence...