ATAR Notes: Forum

General Discussion => General Discussion Boards => Other General Discussion => Topic started by: dejan91 on October 10, 2009, 12:35:51 am

Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: dejan91 on October 10, 2009, 12:35:51 am
My school charges $20,000 a year, and printing in colour costs like 70 cents.  Right.

Anyway, VN is similarly banned for us.  Most likely because of the complete ban on forums though.

Tell me, what makes the school so good (apart from facilities) that is worth $20000 a year, when obviously not even printing credit is included!? I never really understood the point of private schools...

More to the topic, our school hasn't banned VN...no one goes on apart from me (at least I think) :P

EDIT: LOL thanks for the split in topic! Now my post of being 'more to the topic' seems out of place :P
Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: Gloamglozer on October 10, 2009, 12:38:31 am
My school charges $20,000 a year, and printing in colour costs like 70 cents.  Right.

Anyway, VN is similarly banned for us.  Most likely because of the complete ban on forums though.

Tell me, what makes the school so good (apart from facilities) that is worth $20000 a year, when obviously not even printing credit is included!? I never really understood the point of private schools...

More to the topic, our school hasn't banned VN...no one goes on apart from me (at least I think) :P

Most of that $20 000 is the reputation I think.  Your mostly paying for the reputation that elite private schools have garnered through their notable alumni, outstanding VCE results, etc.  I mean, when someone says that they go to a grammar school, pretty much everyone has heard of it.  Whereas if you say I go to "So and So Secondary College", most people just go, "Who?"

Also, the school's also got staff salaries to pay as well and that $20 000 does help.  :)
Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: lynt.br on October 10, 2009, 01:01:26 am
It really puts the education system in perspective knowing there are schools out their which charge $20000 annually while my current school costs less than $100 for the entire year. (I believe this year my school fees were only $64, which was about the same I paid for my year 12 hoodie.)

10c per page printing here as well. Is VNotes allowed at the school I go to? Put it this way, even YouTube isn't blocked at my school....
Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: shinny on October 10, 2009, 01:05:34 am
My school charges $20,000 a year, and printing in colour costs like 70 cents.  Right.

Anyway, VN is similarly banned for us.  Most likely because of the complete ban on forums though.

Tell me, what makes the school so good (apart from facilities) that is worth $20000 a year, when obviously not even printing credit is included!? I never really understood the point of private schools...

More to the topic, our school hasn't banned VN...no one goes on apart from me (at least I think) :P

Most of that $20 000 is the reputation I think.  Your mostly paying for the reputation that elite private schools have garnered through their notable alumni, outstanding VCE results, etc.  I mean, when someone says that they go to a grammar school, pretty much everyone has heard of it.  Whereas if you say I go to "So and So Secondary College", most people just go, "Who?"

Also, the school's also got staff salaries to pay as well and that $20 000 does help.  :)

I think for many parents, a lot of it is more about the kinds of people their children end up hanging with since this definitely helps to determine how their children will turn out to an extent. With the exception of perhaps Xavier in recent history, you could say that most of the private schools would probably provide peace of mind (or at least, more peace of mind) for parents in this regard.
Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: Edmund on October 10, 2009, 10:18:58 am
HA! I was at a private school and they used to charge 10c for B/W and $1.00 for colour. That wasn't a problem, we found a student-teacher account and shared it among ourselves before it got deleted :P According to the print client, we used about $200 worth of print credits and $50+ of internet data heehee
Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 10, 2009, 11:19:33 am
My school charges $20,000 a year, and printing in colour costs like 70 cents.  Right.

Anyway, VN is similarly banned for us.  Most likely because of the complete ban on forums though.

Tell me, what makes the school so good (apart from facilities) that is worth $20000 a year, when obviously not even printing credit is included!? I never really understood the point of private schools...

More to the topic, our school hasn't banned VN...no one goes on apart from me (at least I think) :P

Most of that $20 000 is the reputation I think.  Your mostly paying for the reputation that elite private schools have garnered through their notable alumni, outstanding VCE results, etc.  I mean, when someone says that they go to a grammar school, pretty much everyone has heard of it.  Whereas if you say I go to "So and So Secondary College", most people just go, "Who?"

Also, the school's also got staff salaries to pay as well and that $20 000 does help.  :)

I think for many parents, a lot of it is more about the kinds of people their children end up hanging with since this definitely helps to determine how their children will turn out to an extent. With the exception of perhaps Xavier in recent history, you could say that most of the private schools would probably provide peace of mind (or at least, more peace of mind) for parents in this regard.

I'd say that's pretty much it.  I mean, not to sound pretentious or anything, but there are a lot of absolutely amazing people at my school, like kids who've already gotten perfect SAT scores, kids who do Spesh in year 9, kids who are already more or less professional actors or singers, etc. 

Not only that, but there are just some ridiculously awesome opportunities presented - the school orchestra has played for the Queen of England and (more recently, last year on orchestra tour) the ex-King of Malaysia, and our sporting teams are often on par with professional ones (our 1sts Rowing Crew actually broke the national record). 

You do get the unfortunate side effects of inherent elitism (if you thought what I wrote sounded stuck-up, wait until you see some other kids at school), but really it's well worth the investment if you can afford it. 

The other thing is that I'm on a scholarship, so I only have to 40% of the $20,000 anyway.  >_>
Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: dejan91 on October 10, 2009, 12:40:13 pm
My school charges $20,000 a year, and printing in colour costs like 70 cents.  Right.

Anyway, VN is similarly banned for us.  Most likely because of the complete ban on forums though.

Tell me, what makes the school so good (apart from facilities) that is worth $20000 a year, when obviously not even printing credit is included!? I never really understood the point of private schools...

More to the topic, our school hasn't banned VN...no one goes on apart from me (at least I think) :P

Most of that $20 000 is the reputation I think.  Your mostly paying for the reputation that elite private schools have garnered through their notable alumni, outstanding VCE results, etc.  I mean, when someone says that they go to a grammar school, pretty much everyone has heard of it.  Whereas if you say I go to "So and So Secondary College", most people just go, "Who?"

Also, the school's also got staff salaries to pay as well and that $20 000 does help.  :)

I think for many parents, a lot of it is more about the kinds of people their children end up hanging with since this definitely helps to determine how their children will turn out to an extent. With the exception of perhaps Xavier in recent history, you could say that most of the private schools would probably provide peace of mind (or at least, more peace of mind) for parents in this regard.

I'd say that's pretty much it.  I mean, not to sound pretentious or anything, but there are a lot of absolutely amazing people at my school, like kids who've already gotten perfect SAT scores, kids who do Spesh in year 9, kids who are already more or less professional actors or singers, etc. 

Not only that, but there are just some ridiculously awesome opportunities presented - the school orchestra has played for the Queen of England and (more recently, last year on orchestra tour) the ex-King of Malaysia, and our sporting teams are often on par with professional ones (our 1sts Rowing Crew actually broke the national record). 

You do get the unfortunate side effects of inherent elitism (if you thought what I wrote sounded stuck-up, wait until you see some other kids at school), but really it's well worth the investment if you can afford it. 

The other thing is that I'm on a scholarship, so I only have to 40% of the $20,000 anyway.  >_>

Reputation is exactly what it comes down to in the end :P I mean, I can understand why it would be great going to a private school, and there is no denying private school have many amazing people as you say, but half the reason is because they've poached from public schools. I remember one incident where a school was versing Haileybury in netball, and it just so happened the other school absolutely ripped apart Haileybury. So then, Haileybury offered the whole netball team scholarships. I'm sure this would apply academically too. Thus, reputation is maintained to a high standard...

I wouldn't call it 'robbing' from public schools, but it really does explain the inequality in public vs private. To me, it's just perceived elitism, really. Now, I'm not saying that's the reason all students attend private schools (obviously many arrived there like that), but just stating my observations. I actually didn't try out for any scholarships whatsoever (not even for MHS lol). Half the reason is because I forgot to apply for any and the other half is because I really do believe in the notion that "it's not the school that makes the student, it's the student who makes the school". :)
Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: QuantumJG on October 10, 2009, 01:06:58 pm
I cannot believe that a school charges that much!

I don't think that my HECS debt will amount to that much, lol.

Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: IntoTheNewWorld on October 10, 2009, 01:14:05 pm
^^I don't think it comes down to "reputation", but rather the things that EvangelionZeta mentioned that make up the reputation in the first place. BMWs are expensive for the badge, but hey, they make very good cool cars.

Although there is truth in "it's not the school that makes the student, it's the student who makes the school", a student with potential would most likely find more opportunities to pursue this potential in an elite private school than a standard local government school.
Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 10, 2009, 01:17:45 pm
Not all private schools function like Haileybury though; it's true that there are a fair few kids at the top end who get "bought" in by scholarships, but examples like Haileybury's buying of whole teams are very rare (for reference Haileybury is often considered a joke in regards to its scholarship teams for sports).  Generally speaking, for instance, of the 10 or so kids offered entrance scholarships for academics, only about 7 of them would be in the 25 students scoring 99+ ENTERs each year at MGS.

The other thing is that in my own observations, a lot of the scholarship kids probably would have gone to private schools anyway.  There are a few kids who most likely wouldn't have been able to afford a private education without their scholarships, but at the same time about half of the scholarship kids in my year went to private primary schools as well.  

That aside, I've spoken to kids who have moved from public schools to private schools, and in their words the private schools are a lot more accomodating for "excellence" in regards to atmosphere.  I agree with your statement about the students making the school; the thing with private education though is that you are actively encouraged to make the most out of your schooling, and the fact that your parents are paying about $20,000 a year really does weigh in on students' minds, hence the high ENTER averages, etc.  Not only that, but the kids who moved between schools said that private schools kids themselves will be more supportive of their peers in regards to achieving - one student complained that at her old school, "smart" people were made fun of, whereas after she moved she found that there was a lot more encouragement for her to do well from peers.  Whilst I can't say for certain, I'd wager this is similar to selective public schools, perhaps even moreso because it's often the kids who try to get in as opposed to the parents forcing them to.

Perhaps parents will often choose private schools because of the prestige attached, but the reality of private schools really do justify the costs - I came from a public school background as well, and I personally see very clearly the effects the complete change in environment has had on me as a person.
Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: GerrySly on October 10, 2009, 01:30:47 pm
Quote from: EvangelionZeta
I'd say that's pretty much it.  I mean, not to sound pretentious or anything, but there are a lot of absolutely amazing people at my school, like kids who've already gotten perfect SAT scores, kids who do Spesh in year 9, kids who are already more or less professional actors or singers, etc.
Heh the other week I met Alan Stockdale's step-son at a LAN, he was fairly arrogant giving us life lessons and shit. Very articulate though (he's in your year level yeah? Peter Collins?)
Title: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 10, 2009, 01:40:49 pm
LOL!  Whilst I like him et al, he's (more than most) definitely on...one end of the extreme in regards to private school elitism.  Definitely wouldn't recommend judging private school kids' attitudes just on Peter...>.>
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: excal on October 10, 2009, 03:02:30 pm
TOP <-split-> IC
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: hellomoto on October 10, 2009, 09:26:50 pm
kids who are already more or less professional actors or singers, etc. 
*COUGH* summer heights high, Vincent? *COUGH*
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: hellomoto on October 10, 2009, 09:30:03 pm
For all that didn't understand my last post, EvangelionZeta was a prominent member of the SUmmer Heights High cast!!
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 10, 2009, 09:34:27 pm
^who're you? D:
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: hellomoto on October 10, 2009, 09:40:28 pm
just a fellow lurker from the bluestone
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 10, 2009, 09:46:55 pm
It would be rather amusing if you were Peter Collins, but I'm inclined to think you're not. 
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: appianway on October 10, 2009, 09:47:15 pm
Summer Heights? *Is in awe*

I think the merit of a school (public or private) is largely defined by the students attending the school. You find fantastic students at private schools; you discover similar concentrations of amazingly talented teenagers at public ones. In saying that, it's also good to go to a school that provides a plethora of extra-curricular opportunities for students, but I guess it's always possible to find these without the guidance of a teacher.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 10, 2009, 09:51:16 pm
I would definitely agree that fantastic students should be able to excel regardless of their educational institution - people on this forum like Mao prove that.  However, in saying that, I feel that private schools are perhaps better at drawing out the latent talents of the "lesser" students better; there's more encouragement to participate in what the school offers on the whole. 
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: GerrySly on October 10, 2009, 09:54:31 pm
It would be rather amusing if you were Peter Collins, but I'm inclined to think you're not. 
Heh that it would

What was your part in Summer Heights High EvangelionZeta? I'm gonna watch it now lol only asian I can remember is the kid who goes "he rang me up and copied my entire essay and handed it in to the teacher the next day", was that you?
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: hellomoto on October 10, 2009, 09:55:28 pm
It would be rather amusing if you were Peter Collins, but I'm inclined to think you're not. 
I'm defs not that wranger
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 10, 2009, 09:56:57 pm
It would be rather amusing if you were Peter Collins, but I'm inclined to think you're not.  
Heh that it would

What was your part in Summer Heights High EvangelionZeta? I'm gonna watch it now lol only asian I can remember is the kid who goes "he rang me up and copied my entire essay and handed it in to the teacher the next day", was that you?

Yeah, that's me.  The nasally tone in my voice and my slight Asian accent have (hopefully) improved remarkably since.  (:
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: appianway on October 10, 2009, 10:15:08 pm
I would definitely agree that fantastic students should be able to excel regardless of their educational institution - people on this forum like Mao prove that.  However, in saying that, I feel that private schools are perhaps better at drawing out the latent talents of the "lesser" students better; there's more encouragement to participate in what the school offers on the whole. 

It really depends on the school. I went to a private school until the end of year 8 and found the environment stifling, but I thrive on the range of activities offered at my (rather atypical) state school.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: IntoTheNewWorld on October 10, 2009, 10:19:36 pm
I would definitely agree that fantastic students should be able to excel regardless of their educational institution - people on this forum like Mao prove that.  However, in saying that, I feel that private schools are perhaps better at drawing out the latent talents of the "lesser" students better; there's more encouragement to participate in what the school offers on the whole.  

It really depends on the school. I went to a private school until the end of year 8 and found the environment stifling, but I thrive on the range of activities offered at my (rather atypical) state school.

your state school doesn't count, it's like a private school except from the outside it looks like a hole =P (I'm sorry).

I don't think normal state schools can afford to offer a wide range of extracurricular activities (Or maybe I just went to one of the poorer ones...?)
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 10, 2009, 10:23:10 pm
I would definitely agree that fantastic students should be able to excel regardless of their educational institution - people on this forum like Mao prove that.  However, in saying that, I feel that private schools are perhaps better at drawing out the latent talents of the "lesser" students better; there's more encouragement to participate in what the school offers on the whole. 

It really depends on the school. I went to a private school until the end of year 8 and found the environment stifling, but I thrive on the range of activities offered at my (rather atypical) state school.

Which private school and why?
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: appianway on October 10, 2009, 10:30:15 pm
You probably wouldn't know it.

I felt incredibly restricted at my old school: I remember feeling either forced to participate in activites (the music director once lectured me on how it was my obligation to perform in the concerto concert, even though I wasn't learning a concerto at the time) or sensing that there wasn't the opportunity to create events that suited my interests. The school was also quite rigid in terms of academics: my year 7 science teacher banned me from asking questions in class because most of them were beyond the scope of the secondary school course. I also recall a certain english teacher marking down one of my essays because my vocabulary was too sophisticated. Apparently she wasn't familiar with some of the terms that I was employing. I explained to her how to use a dictionary. To be honest, I don't really think that helped our rocky relationship...
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: /0 on October 10, 2009, 10:35:18 pm
Looks like you should have skipped highschool altogether!
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: TrueTears on October 10, 2009, 10:37:26 pm
I dono my school seems pretty shit at times =S
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 10, 2009, 10:37:42 pm
You probably wouldn't know it.

I felt incredibly restricted at my old school: I remember feeling either forced to participate in activites (the music director once lectured me on how it was my obligation to perform in the concerto concert, even though I wasn't learning a concerto at the time) or sensing that there wasn't the opportunity to create events that suited my interests. The school was also quite rigid in terms of academics: my year 7 science teacher banned me from asking questions in class because most of them were beyond the scope of the secondary school course. I also recall a certain english teacher marking down one of my essays because my vocabulary was too sophisticated. Apparently she wasn't familiar with some of the terms that I was employing. I explained to her how to use a dictionary. To be honest, I don't really think that helped our rocky relationship...

Sounds like Thor Taylor, except in his case, the school moved him out of the normal maths class and provided him with a special teacher who basically accelerated him to the point of doing Spesh in year 9.  Not to sound condescending (again!) or anything, but it sounds to me that your school just wasn't as prepared for you as some others.

In regards to the activities bit, I remember in year 7 they offered us extension groups for Philosophy, Quantum Physics, Marxist politics and Ancient Greek (amongst more "typical" ones), so yeah...

Probably varies from school to school though - maybe one of the private schools would have clicked with you just like MacRob evidently does.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: appianway on October 10, 2009, 10:38:31 pm
Not at all. I was just really inquisitive, and liked to read about a variety of concepts. Unfortunately the aforementioned teacher almost destroyed my fascination in science.

And the general consensus among all of the students was that the English teacher was terrible. She was quite hypocritical - our class would churn through pages of grammar exercises, but her emails would be riddled with non-standard punctuation, orthography and sytax, to put it nicely...

You were allowed to do Quantum Physics in year 7, EZ? I'm. So. Envious.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 10, 2009, 10:47:15 pm
Not at all. I was just really inquisitive, and liked to read about a variety of concepts. Unfortunately the aforementioned teacher almost destroyed my fascination in science.

And the general consensus among all of the students was that the English teacher was terrible. She was quite hypocritical - our class would churn through pages of grammar exercises, but her emails would be riddled with non-standard punctuation, orthography and sytax, to put it nicely...

You were allowed to do Quantum Physics in year 7, EZ? I'm. So. Envious.

Ah.  Therein lies the problem - you can't really attack a certain type of institution based on one bad teacher; no matter where you go you'll always find ones who just don't "click" with you, I think.

And to be fair, I never bothered with it beyond the introductory lesson - real science has never been of much interest to me, only the stuff found in fiction.  I know more about the difference between Minovsky Fission and Nuclear Fusion drives in Gundams than whatever in Biology.  :p
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: appianway on October 10, 2009, 10:50:38 pm
The two mentioned teachers mirrored the ethos of the school, although I should probably mention that I had a better teacher for year 8 science.

But different schools ultimately suit different people. My sister goes to my old school, and refused to sit for Mac.Rob in year 8.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: qshyrn on October 10, 2009, 11:00:35 pm
It would be rather amusing if you were Peter Collins, but I'm inclined to think you're not. 
Heh that it would

What was your part in Summer Heights High EvangelionZeta? I'm gonna watch it now lol only asian I can remember is the kid who goes "he rang me up and copied my entire essay and handed it in to the teacher the next day", was that you?

Yeah, that's me.  The nasally tone in my voice and Asian tones have improved remarkably since.  (:
which episode were u in?
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ice_blockie on October 10, 2009, 11:05:04 pm
Slightly off the topic flow but my cousin went to a private school that charged around $15000. It doesn't have much of a reputation but ranks in the top 15 private schools every year. Anyway joke was that $10000 of everyone's school fees went to the photocopier room. They had 3 or 4? industrial photocopiers that were each the size of a small car and the Xerox truck would come every 2 weeks or so and deliver probably a forest of paper boxes. For VCE exam prep, the school (unlike stingy MHS) printed off practice exams full size so every kid had one of the xerox boxes to take home happily.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 10, 2009, 11:15:26 pm
@ qshryn, episode 1.  I'd prefer it if the SHH questions were pm'd hereon so as not to disrupt the topic's flow.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: shinny on October 10, 2009, 11:26:54 pm
Slightly off the topic flow but my cousin went to a private school that charged around $15000. It doesn't have much of a reputation but ranks in the top 15 private schools every year. Anyway joke was that $10000 of everyone's school fees went to the photocopier room. They had 3 or 4? industrial photocopiers that were each the size of a small car and the Xerox truck would come every 2 weeks or so and deliver probably a forest of paper boxes. For VCE exam prep, the school (unlike stingy MHS) printed off practice exams full size so every kid had one of the xerox boxes to take home happily.

I know other private schools just don't photocopy to begin with; my friend at Xavier got a folder of like 20 real copy exams straight from the companies.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: GerrySly on October 10, 2009, 11:38:48 pm
Quote from: shinny
I know other private schools just don't photocopy to begin with; my friend at Xavier got a folder of like 20 real copy exams straight from the companies.
That's what we got, though we only got 4 exams. Much better than photocopied exams to be honest, feel soooo much better
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: kendraaaaa on October 11, 2009, 01:40:24 am
For chem the only thing I got in hardcopy was the 08 vcaa exam =.=

Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: appianway on October 11, 2009, 08:09:59 am
We have so many photocopies for English Language. Although they're not past papers as such, but rather, notes.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: IntoTheNewWorld on October 11, 2009, 10:12:06 am
wtf MHS even tried to charge to access Chem exams on the intranet. Needless to say, that didn't last long. But even now, I think some exams aren't photocopied for you when you pay for the chem pack (thank you VN), you just get access to them in the library (these themselves are photocopies) and have to photocopy them yourself.

Stingy bastards.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ninwa on October 11, 2009, 04:21:26 pm
My school gave us CDs with tonnes of practice exams on them and told us to "print them ourselves at home to save paper."

Yes because the paper we have at home doesn't come from trees, they come from magic mountain fairies ...
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: Trent on October 11, 2009, 09:41:06 pm
I myself go to a private school and can honestly say it is worth the money. The students that have come from public schools say the environment for learning is far superior, as suceeding at school is not seen as 'nerdy', whereas at their old school it was. Despite the better facilities, extra-cirricula activies and all that, I think this is one of the main things, you are actively encouraged to reach your full potential, whereas, from what I have heard, in public schools this is not always the case. To add to this point, a friend of mine goes to a public school and got given 1 practice psychology paper from their school, whereas my school gave us 16. I am speaking purely from what former public school students have told me, as I have never attended a public school. This is just what I hear.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ngRISING on October 11, 2009, 09:51:57 pm
To add to this point, a friend of mine goes to a public school and got given 1 practice psychology paper from their school, whereas my school gave us 16. I am speaking purely from what former public school students have told me, as I have never attended a public school. This is just what I hear.

right, i go to a public school and i have been given 10psychology practice exams, and we are starting full revision practice exams this week meaning more to come. point still proven? what you hear is different from what you experience, thus don't use what you hear as a point.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: kendraaaaa on October 11, 2009, 09:58:46 pm
I wish I had gone to a private school, if the only thing we are discussing here is the quality of education. I go to revision lectures and the majority of lecturers are from elite schools, the quality of information that is delivered at (most) of these lectures is far ahead of what I get in class. Kids with access to teachers of such a high calibre, I believe, have a much higher chance of succeeding in their exams.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: Trent on October 11, 2009, 10:05:23 pm

right, i go to a public school and i have been given 10psychology practice exams, and we are starting full revision practice exams this week meaning more to come. point still proven? what you hear is different from what you experience, thus don't use what you hear as a point.

I was merely saying that there are some public schools out there which are clearly well below par. But also this wasn't something I just heard off the rumour mill, its the truth. I don't want to get into an arguement, just my personal view point is that private school is worth it, and I understand people view it differently.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: xXNovaxX on October 11, 2009, 10:10:17 pm
ULTIMATELY

YES, it is a FACT Private school's have all these lecturers and VCE Assessors, and print more exam papers, and buy company exams etc etc.

But you can't say its worth the $50,000 you pay, or how much ever it is, but then again you can't put a value on education.

Look, it really comes down to what YOU make out of your situation. Like man, go to a developing country, lets say I don't know, Indonesia, you have scientists, millionaires, politicians, engineers....and ti's a DEVELOPING country.

It's the same here, you have people from public schools (developing countries) who can be whatever they wish to if they put their efforts.

Private schools imo just make it easier i guess? And having VCAA assessors as teachers can allow them to give you hints and dieas from the thousands of exams they read.

I always say "I wish I went to a private school" then i switch and say "I wouldn't ever want to pay that money"

In today's society you can get to your destination in various ways, whether through TAFE, or VCE.<<<<that is the MOST important. Let's say for arguments sake Private schools are better, public schoolers are still able to reach their destination and become dentists, lawyers etc.





Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ngRISING on October 11, 2009, 10:14:00 pm
oh, woops. i couldn't extract the part some public schools from the generalisation you made.

from what I have heard, in public schools this is not always the case.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: xXNovaxX on October 11, 2009, 10:15:03 pm
To add to this point, a friend of mine goes to a public school and got given 1 practice psychology paper from their school, whereas my school gave us 16. I am speaking purely from what former public school students have told me, as I have never attended a public school. This is just what I hear.

right, i go to a public school and i have been given 10psychology practice exams, and we are starting full revision practice exams this week meaning more to come. point still proven? what you hear is different from what you experience, thus don't use what you hear as a point.
I agree with you ngRising, However this is the weird thing

Visual Communcaiton- we have been printed every exam (like 5)
International Politics= only ONE, my teacehr just said "you can get the rest urselves off the net"
Maths= my teacher said we cnat print several exams for the 3 classes, so we only got 1
Economcis= been given like 3

It varies. But yeah, i'm not debating about which is better, but just like it varies in public schools, it varies in private, it comes down to TEACHER, not the umbrella term of "if its public/private"=thats merely a business term.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: xXNovaxX on October 11, 2009, 10:15:45 pm
oh, woops. i couldn't extract the part some public schools from the generalisation you made.

from what I have heard, in public schools this is not always the case.
lol. +1
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: magnum on October 11, 2009, 10:20:08 pm

Why are we arguing over which schools print out more trial exams lol
Lets add some evidence to the debate. This ones for all the public students out there  :)


http://www.monash.edu.au/news/newsline/story/350

Public school students perform well at university


6 April 2005

A study released today by Monash University researchers Ian Dobson and Eric Skuja has found students from public schools outperform those from private schools when they reach university.

Mr Dobson said a survey of 12,500 first year Monash University students revealed public school students who left Year 12 with lower marks than their private school rivals overtook them academically at university.

"Once on a level playing field, students from non-selective government schools tend to do much better," he said.

"Private school students have an advantage at exam time in Year 12 because they have access to more resources. However, this advantage evaporates when they reach university."

The report found that once at university, public school students performed better academically in their first year compared with private school students who received similar ENTER scores.

"We found that, on average, government school students performed about five percentage points better than students from independent schools," Mr Dobson said.

The study confirmed that private school students generally received higher Year 12 marks than those from the public system but showed that any edge gained was lost in the first year of a bachelor degree.

Mr Dobson said the report had implications for university admissions and policies.

The report, called 'Secondary schooling, tertiary entry ranks and university performance', will be released in the April edition of People and Place, distributed by Monash University's Centre for Urban Research and Population Studies.

The report can be accessed at http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/pnp/view/issue/?volume=13&issue=1.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: IntoTheNewWorld on October 11, 2009, 10:25:14 pm
I think the amount of money a school has does influence the quality of education significantly, even within government schools. I think there was that article in the Age a while back where it showed the school fees of the most expensive government schools in Melbourne, which also coincided with some of the highest performing government schools in Melbourne. Not just MHS and Macrob, but also Balwyn, Glen Waverly, Box Hill etc. These schools also make much more from fund raising then other government schools.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: xXNovaxX on October 11, 2009, 10:25:19 pm
LMAO!!! MAN MAGNUM! (note the caps illustrating awe), thats awesome!

It hits it right on the nail.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 11, 2009, 10:30:01 pm
From experience (and note that it only mentions 1st year specifically), the higher scores for public school students is more a result of private school students' mentalities - to quote a friend, in first year they tend to think they're "top shit" because of their private education and as a result don't put in as much effort into Uni because they think they'll breeze through it like with VCE.  Hence private school students tend to do a lot better than they did 1st year come 2nd year onwards...
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: xXNovaxX on October 11, 2009, 10:37:21 pm
may I also add, 2 past TEACHERS of mine (so not necessarily my view) said also because private school pplz are given many resources, notes etc and don't do as mch self learning, or research so that they then rely on teachers.

Whereas in private schools because we don';'t get given all exams for example, and because we are given a lot of independent task work and h/w we are more better at researching ourselves???

But yeah, I guess I SEE where teacehrs are coming from. Look overall tis a myriad of reasons.

*runs away and hides*
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 11, 2009, 10:41:54 pm
Yeah, I'd agree with that.  Still, it should only affect private school students negatively for a brief period; most of my friends who hit 1st year realised they were getting pwned pretty quickly in, so in essence it's like being thrown from the shallow pool to the deep end, whereas public school students are used to the deep end already. 

Basically, everyone ends up in the deep end and starts swimming eventually, so I guess the moral of the story is that at Uni everyone wins.  (:
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ngRISING on October 11, 2009, 10:43:56 pm
Lets add some evidence to the debate. This ones for all the public students out there  :)

if i could give you a gold medal right now, i wouldn't give you one. i'll give you many.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ninwa on October 11, 2009, 11:06:50 pm
Saying that public schools are better because their graduates "tend to, on average" perform better in the first year of their university degree is as logically fallacious as saying private schools are better because their students tend to get more practice exams =\
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: minilunchbox on October 11, 2009, 11:10:44 pm
From experience (and note that it only mentions 1st year specifically), the higher scores for public school students is more a result of private school students' mentalities - to quote a friend, in first year they tend to think they're "top shit" because of their private education and as a result don't put in as much effort into Uni because they think they'll breeze through it like with VCE.  Hence private school students tend to do a lot better than they did 1st year come 2nd year onwards...

lol I have that mentality which is bad because I'm 'top shit' academically at my public school when I'd probably be mediocore at a private school.

I've never attended a private school but I can see how it has a plethora of benefits, it's just the fees are a little ridiculous (for me, personally, considering my parents are too stingy to even pay my current school fees). And scholarships/applying for atypical public schools haven't worked (see above).

Anyway, we were given a lot of practise exams and some of my teachers have written VCE textbooks and were past VCAA assessors so that's not exclusive to just private schools.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ngRISING on October 11, 2009, 11:12:15 pm
Saying that public schools are better

sorry i missed it. who said public schools are better. im a bit tired. i've only read comparisons in terms of pratice exams etc. :S
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ninwa on October 11, 2009, 11:19:30 pm
sorry i missed it. who said public schools are better. im a bit tired. i've only read comparisons in terms of pratice exams etc. :S

Assumed it from magnum's post
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ngRISING on October 11, 2009, 11:26:57 pm
sorry i missed it. who said public schools are better. im a bit tired. i've only read comparisons in terms of pratice exams etc. :S

Assumed it from magnum's post

OH. right right. makes more sense.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: dejan91 on October 12, 2009, 12:04:39 am
From experience (and note that it only mentions 1st year specifically), the higher scores for public school students is more a result of private school students' mentalities - to quote a friend, in first year they tend to think they're "top shit" because of their private education and as a result don't put in as much effort into Uni because they think they'll breeze through it like with VCE.  Hence private school students tend to do a lot better than they did 1st year come 2nd year onwards...

Lol I find this funny. It's people like that (not you EZ) who think they're "top shit" that make me want to get a high enter. I have nothing against private schools... just the conceited attitudes which generally radiate from them :P

Anyway, I really believe teachers have a significant impact on the education you receive. Personally, I love every single teacher I have this year and so learning is enjoyable and engaging.

Yeah it's true a public school environment isn't as stimulating as that of a private school's... but I've found that only to be the case UP TO year 12. What I found was that in year's 7-10, the general consensus of students was that I've you studied or got good grades, you were a 'nerd'...and so that restricted MANY from reaching their full potential. Then years 10-11 were when the sifting process began...things began to improve (slightly) as the rebels of the year level drop out for apprenticeships or went to VCAL. This year however, I've noticed a BIG change in attitudes. All of a sudden, people wanted to do good!! Surprise, surprise... And now those receiving the high marks are envied for their hard-work and what not. haha and that's the story of a typical public school.

Btw, going back to what I said about the student making the school, have a look at Glen Waverly. Their average study score every year is almost on par with MHS, MacRob and other elite private schools. I remember a few years back my friend telling me something like 7 people from G.W. got 99.95 in the one year...which needless to say is absolutely crazy!
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: QuantumJG on October 12, 2009, 12:08:05 am

Why are we arguing over which schools print out more trial exams lol
Lets add some evidence to the debate. This ones for all the public students out there  :)


http://www.monash.edu.au/news/newsline/story/350

Public school students perform well at university


6 April 2005

A study released today by Monash University researchers Ian Dobson and Eric Skuja has found students from public schools outperform those from private schools when they reach university.

Mr Dobson said a survey of 12,500 first year Monash University students revealed public school students who left Year 12 with lower marks than their private school rivals overtook them academically at university.

"Once on a level playing field, students from non-selective government schools tend to do much better," he said.

"Private school students have an advantage at exam time in Year 12 because they have access to more resources. However, this advantage evaporates when they reach university."

The report found that once at university, public school students performed better academically in their first year compared with private school students who received similar ENTER scores.

"We found that, on average, government school students performed about five percentage points better than students from independent schools," Mr Dobson said.

The study confirmed that private school students generally received higher Year 12 marks than those from the public system but showed that any edge gained was lost in the first year of a bachelor degree.

Mr Dobson said the report had implications for university admissions and policies.

The report, called 'Secondary schooling, tertiary entry ranks and university performance', will be released in the April edition of People and Place, distributed by Monash University's Centre for Urban Research and Population Studies.

The report can be accessed at http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/pnp/view/issue/?volume=13&issue=1.


lol this is true.

Just wait until you get into a good uni and have access to great resources, your marks will go up. I even get marks near par with some people who got 40's for specialist maths.

This is why uni's are trying to decrease ENTER dependency and rely more on your uni GPA when you apply for a post-grad degree.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ngRISING on October 12, 2009, 12:25:03 am
This year however, I've noticed a BIG change in attitudes. All of a sudden, people wanted to do good!! Surprise, surprise... And now those receiving the high marks are envied for their hard-work and what not. haha and that's the story of a typical public school.

true true. LOL !! i use to be a dummy. 3% for my quadratics test. failed spelling quizzes and stuff. catching up a little bit now =p
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: james207 on October 14, 2009, 07:49:18 pm

Why are we arguing over which schools print out more trial exams lol
Lets add some evidence to the debate. This ones for all the public students out there  :)


http://www.monash.edu.au/news/newsline/story/350

Public school students perform well at university


6 April 2005

A study released today by Monash University researchers Ian Dobson and Eric Skuja has found students from public schools outperform those from private schools when they reach university.

Mr Dobson said a survey of 12,500 first year Monash University students revealed public school students who left Year 12 with lower marks than their private school rivals overtook them academically at university.

"Once on a level playing field, students from non-selective government schools tend to do much better," he said.

"Private school students have an advantage at exam time in Year 12 because they have access to more resources. However, this advantage evaporates when they reach university."

The report found that once at university, public school students performed better academically in their first year compared with private school students who received similar ENTER scores.

"We found that, on average, government school students performed about five percentage points better than students from independent schools," Mr Dobson said.

The study confirmed that private school students generally received higher Year 12 marks than those from the public system but showed that any edge gained was lost in the first year of a bachelor degree.

Mr Dobson said the report had implications for university admissions and policies.

The report, called 'Secondary schooling, tertiary entry ranks and university performance', will be released in the April edition of People and Place, distributed by Monash University's Centre for Urban Research and Population Studies.

The report can be accessed at http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/pnp/view/issue/?volume=13&issue=1.


lol this is true.

Just wait until you get into a good uni and have access to great resources, your marks will go up. I even get marks near par with some people who got 40's for specialist maths.

This is why uni's are trying to decrease ENTER dependency and rely more on your uni GPA when you apply for a post-grad degree.


So even after paying over $20,000 to go to a private school, public school students have an advantage at uni!! SWEET!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: EvangelionZeta on October 14, 2009, 07:52:42 pm
-facepalm-
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: IntoTheNewWorld on October 14, 2009, 08:02:22 pm
From experience (and note that it only mentions 1st year specifically), the higher scores for public school students is more a result of private school students' mentalities - to quote a friend, in first year they tend to think they're "top shit" because of their private education and as a result don't put in as much effort into Uni because they think they'll breeze through it like with VCE.  Hence private school students tend to do a lot better than they did 1st year come 2nd year onwards...

I believe

Lol I find this funny. It's people like that (not you EZ) who think they're "top shit" that make me want to get a high enter. I have nothing against private schools... just the conceited attitudes which generally radiate from them :P

Anyway, I really believe teachers have a significant impact on the education you receive. Personally, I love every single teacher I have this year and so learning is enjoyable and engaging.

Yeah it's true a public school environment isn't as stimulating as that of a private school's... but I've found that only to be the case UP TO year 12. What I found was that in year's 7-10, the general consensus of students was that I've you studied or got good grades, you were a 'nerd'...and so that restricted MANY from reaching their full potential. Then years 10-11 were when the sifting process began...things began to improve (slightly) as the rebels of the year level drop out for apprenticeships or went to VCAL. This year however, I've noticed a BIG change in attitudes. All of a sudden, people wanted to do good!! Surprise, surprise... And now those receiving the high marks are envied for their hard-work and what not. haha and that's the story of a typical public school.

Btw, going back to what I said about the student making the school, have a look at Glen Waverly. Their average study score every year is almost on par with MHS, MacRob and other elite private schools. I remember a few years back my friend telling me something like 7 people from G.W. got 99.95 in the one year...which needless to say is absolutely crazy!

I think Glen Waverly is in the position of having a "private school effect", that is, you need money or parents that care about education to get in. The Glen Waverly school zone is incredibly small, and house prices in the Glen Waverly school zone are not really affordable for people at normal local high schools. So like in private schools, parents have to care for their children's education. I hear of parents buying houses in the zone just to get in the zone, and even parents who fake addresses to get into Glen Waverly. Unfortunately, it's not representative of the normal local high school. Just my opinion anyway.

It would be nice if every public school performed like Glen Waverly though.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: appianway on October 14, 2009, 08:06:48 pm
It would be nice if every public school performed like Glen Waverly though.

Nice, but impossible. VCE marks are based on rank, so there are going to be high and low performing schools.

In saying that, it'd be nice if every public school was able to offer its students opportunities and instill positive attitudes towards education.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: /0 on October 14, 2009, 08:09:19 pm
I suspect that people from public schools who get into university are actually motivated to do well, while many dregs in private schools kind of 'expect' to get to university, regardless of how much they put in. I think some ex-private school students would feel less motivated to study because regardless of how they do they will still have significant financial backup (although i think the 'financial backup' private school students have is frequently exaggerated).
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ninwa on October 14, 2009, 08:15:41 pm
I think some ex-private school students would feel less motivated to study because regardless of how they do they will still have significant financial backup (although i think the 'financial backup' private school students have is frequently exaggerated).

That's a good point - I have friends who didn't even bother going to university because they were guaranteed management-level jobs at their parents' companies etc.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: Rietie on October 15, 2009, 11:38:57 pm
I think some ex-private school students would feel less motivated to study because regardless of how they do they will still have significant financial backup (although i think the 'financial backup' private school students have is frequently exaggerated).

That's a good point - I have friends who didn't even bother going to university because they were guaranteed management-level jobs at their parents' companies etc.

:O

Are people allowed to do that?
If my parents owned a company and offered me a high job that I had no qualifications for, I don't think I could accept it. I will feel so bad. And I wouldn't compently do my job. I'd rather work casually at a bottom level place at the company while going to uni.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: dejan91 on October 16, 2009, 12:15:54 am
I think some ex-private school students would feel less motivated to study because regardless of how they do they will still have significant financial backup (although i think the 'financial backup' private school students have is frequently exaggerated).

That's a good point - I have friends who didn't even bother going to university because they were guaranteed management-level jobs at their parents' companies etc.

Sure is funny how this world works... "it's not what you know, but who you know" sadly.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: Glockmeister on October 16, 2009, 01:47:33 am
I think some ex-private school students would feel less motivated to study because regardless of how they do they will still have significant financial backup (although i think the 'financial backup' private school students have is frequently exaggerated).

That's a good point - I have friends who didn't even bother going to university because they were guaranteed management-level jobs at their parents' companies etc.

:O

Are people allowed to do that?
If my parents owned a company and offered me a high job that I had no qualifications for, I don't think I could accept it. I will feel so bad. And I wouldn't compently do my job. I'd rather work casually at a bottom level place at the company while going to uni.

There's nothing illegal about it... whether it is a wise business decision is another matter altogether.
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: lynt.br on October 16, 2009, 03:28:57 am
I think some ex-private school students would feel less motivated to study because regardless of how they do they will still have significant financial backup (although i think the 'financial backup' private school students have is frequently exaggerated).

That's a good point - I have friends who didn't even bother going to university because they were guaranteed management-level jobs at their parents' companies etc.

:O

Are people allowed to do that?
If my parents owned a company and offered me a high job that I had no qualifications for, I don't think I could accept it. I will feel so bad. And I wouldn't compently do my job. I'd rather work casually at a bottom level place at the company while going to uni.

(http://www.funnycorner.net/funny-pictures/5459/Nepotism.jpg)
Title: Re: Expensive private schools
Post by: ninwa on October 16, 2009, 02:26:24 pm
Are people allowed to do that?
If my parents owned a company and offered me a high job that I had no qualifications for, I don't think I could accept it. I will feel so bad. And I wouldn't compently do my job. I'd rather work casually at a bottom level place at the company while going to uni.

Well, it's more for the sake of having something nice on her resume. Technically her position is "managing director" or something like that, but anytime a difficult issue comes up she just asks her dad to make the decision. So it doesn't really negatively affect the business at all.