ATAR Notes: Forum
General Discussion => General Discussion Boards => News and Politics => Topic started by: stonecold on December 30, 2009, 12:02:58 am
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With the ever increasing number of violent incidents occurring weekend after weekend across the nation, I find it beyond belief that beverages are still served in glass in pubs and clubs. So many people end up blind and with deformed faces because of the supidity of drunk and drugged up idiots using glass bottles as if they were a baseball bat. It is obvious people will do stupid things when they are under the influence, so why give them a weapon in their hands? You are just asking for trouble. The Lord Mayor says "It shouldn't have to come to this [banning glass]" and others are having a sook because "drinks taste shit" in plastic. Anyone who supports that argument really needs to get over themselves. How your drink tastes is not as important as someone else's vision. I'm not saying it is the answer to out city's violence woes, but banning glass from public venues is a very small measure that will go a long way into reducing the number alcohol related injuries taking place, which are presently spiraling out of control.
Would also like to add that street violence is actually increasing, it is not just the media blowing everything out of proportion, although they do seem to enjoy doing this.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/new-police-statistics-show-rising-violence-but-less-crime/story-e6frf7kx-1225759461492
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Agree totally. Bottles are bad news and I belive that they should stop serving glass after 11pm in pubs and clubs.
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well there is a difference in taste when its plastic not glass but then again i agree it is a problem that requires action
however i dont think they will even realise the difference in taste when they get that "pissed" :P
btw i know this is a stupid question, but why does melbourne have such a big problem when many other cities around the world dont?
or is everywhere but we only hear the "local" news?
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It's not just Melbourne, it happens pretty much all across Australia. However I seriously doubt the problem is this bad in Europe.
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thats what i ment sorry, y isnt it this bad overseas?
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Who knows?
Maybe tougher laws, better drug and alcohol policies, less tolerance towards these acts by the public. Things like that I suppose.
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thats what i ment sorry, y isnt it this bad overseas?
Throwing bottles at performers on stage isn't that uncommon in other countries.
I agree that glass bottles pose unnecessary risks and should be banned in public events, but not in places like the pub. brb, editing this post another 92023 times
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i like my scotch in a glass =[
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i like my scotch in a glass =[
yeah....alcohol out of plastic is kinda crap lol
you can blame dumb thugs in the cbd when u cant have it in a glass
btw, does europe etc have tougher laws? i thought they were very liberal in these areas?
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i like my scotch in a glass =[
fancy drinking scotch in a plastic cup - how spartan!
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Drinks do taste worse in plastic. And I'm yet to see anyone glassed at a club/bar/pub. I don't think Australia has a big problem. I think that it's limited to a few select establishments that attract a certain class of clientele.
It's not just Melbourne, it happens pretty much all across Australia. However I seriously doubt the problem is this bad in Europe.
Wrong!
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I dont know much about the taste but most people just enjoy they're drink quietly or socially with friends and move on. I dont think its the ideal solution to change this for everyone, to protect all from the idiot few but what else can we do. I guess my view depends on how often the glassing happens but i think its a good idea.
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I like this idea.
People are talking about the 'taste', but at public events, bars, night clubs, etc, I doubt that people really care about taste and it's more about getting wasted on cheap beer. I say, if people want to enjoy a drink, drink at home or a nice restaurant.
The problem we have with violence on the streets is shocking. Just look at the footage of police being bashed by drunks. I personally don't like being in the CBD alone after 8pm.
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Another example of a few select idiots wrecking it for everyone else.
Harsher penalties for the wrongdoers, less penalties on everyone thanks. (As whoever said something about Europe having tougher laws -- yes that's the solution, not draconian laws that try to manipulate behaviour by punishing everyone)
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What about using plastic cups at places where these things happen, but not at venues that follow the rules and generally avoid fights and the like?
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What about using plastic cups at places where these things happen, but not at venues that follow the rules and generally avoid fights and the like?
like blacklist certain venues and ban them for using glass?
not a bad idea :) but its not easy for the club/pub itself to avoid these things when its mostly the ppl inside the venue causing problems
i could see these ppl searching for other places hence spreading the problem into otherwise quiet, problem-free places
i guess id have to agree with collin tho
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I do agree that tougher penalties for offenders, similar to those in New York, would be the best solution. However to me, it seems that the current government has thrown out the idea of harsher sentencing for offenders, in favour of a couple of other mediocre changes, which are having no effect whatsoever on violent attacks in the city.
Sure it would be better if society could be trusted with these types of things, but it is clear it can't. If enough people were in favour of banning glass at public venues at night, the government would bow down. To me, it is almost a case of double standards. Drinks are served in plastic at major sporting events and concerts to ensure the safety of athletes and performers. Does the general public not deserve a similar level of safety?
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Pretty sure it would be extremely difficult to throw a bottle at britney spears from the back of the rod laver arena, they use cups to protect te audience;)
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this is slightly off topic but has relevance, anyway what do ppl think of the current sugestions to raise the drinking age?
personaly i dont think it will solve alot of problems since just as much trouble happens at suburban house parties as in the cbd
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Yeah you are right ryan, increasing the drinking age will have no effect at all seeing as most parents buy their kids alcohol or allow them to drink anyway. Look at the US, the minimum drinking age is 21 and that seems to have to little effect in curbing violent and antisocial behaviour.
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True the problem also lies with underage drikng in australia.
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thats what i meant sorry, y isn't it this bad overseas?
A different culture I presume. Although these CLEARLY are not limited to Australia, I personally feel it is MORE socially UNACCEPTABLE in other countries.
Take Middle Eastern Countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia for example. We all know Indonesia has issues (terrorism, civil violence etc etc) HOWEVER, we also know their strict religious teachings and family up bringing have alcohol as TABOO, -->less alcohol related violence.
I KNOW Indonesia has high levels of crime, especially in the cities, however there is less ALCOHOL related crime. What I am trying to say is, it is POSSIBLE tor educe crime related to alcohol (police I think said 70% of all crimes are connected to alcohol)
And notice how I admitted each country has problems, exemplifying we are not the only one.
Now, before people think I am saying "lets all turn Muslim", I am trying to show how RELIGION dictates social values.
And in Australia, we rely on public campaigns, the media, police, welfare groups etc to act as "preachers" which will eventually see these cases declines.
In France for example, there is a lot of ethnic violence between difefrent groups (remember the riots a few years ago in Paris?), thats A PROBLEM, however it is not alcohol related....why? Because French people are very "high class" and "wine lovers", it's their CULTURE.
I hope people understand the point im trying to get across?
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Yeah you are right ryan, increasing the drinking age will have no effect at all seeing as most parents buy their kids alcohol or allow them to drink anyway. Look at the US, the minimum drinking age is 21 and that seems to have to little effect in curbing violent and antisocial behaviour.
ive heard that alcohol is quite easy to access at US colleges and unis even if ur under 21 anyway
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Yeah you are right ryan, increasing the drinking age will have no effect at all seeing as most parents buy their kids alcohol or allow them to drink anyway. Look at the US, the minimum drinking age is 21 and that seems to have to little effect in curbing violent and antisocial behaviour.
ive heard that alcohol is quite easy to access at US colleges and unis even if ur under 21 anyway
This goes to show, in Australia we are having SOME success. It seems form that simple sentence, we have a tougher stance on serving alcohol to those <18 (companies have been fined MILLIONS for failing this, and we have under cover people trying to buy alcohol when they are <18 etc to catch bad businesses). This ahs taken YEARS to work.
I think our problem now is lax parenting, especially at parties etc.
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thats what i meant sorry, y isn't it this bad overseas?
A different culture I presume. Although these CLEARLY are not limited to Australia, I personally feel it is MORE socially UNACCEPTABLE in other countries.
Take Middle Eastern Countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia for example. We all know Indonesia has issues (terrorism, civil violence etc etc) HOWEVER, we also know their strict religious teachings and family up bringing have alcohol as TABOO, -->less alcohol related violence.
I KNOW Indonesia has high levels of crime, especially in the cities, however there is less ALCOHOL related crime. What I am trying to say is, it is POSSIBLE tor educe crime related to alcohol (police I think said 70% of all crimes are connected to alcohol)
And notice how I admitted each country has problems, exemplifying we are not the only one.
Now, before people think I am saying "lets all turn Muslim", I am trying to show how RELIGION dictates social values.
And in Australia, we rely on public campaigns, the media, police, welfare groups etc to act as "preachers" which will eventually see these cases declines.
In France for example, there is a lot of ethnic violence between difefrent groups (remember the riots a few years ago in Paris?), thats A PROBLEM, however it is not alcohol related....why? Because French people are very "high class" and "wine lovers", it's their CULTURE.
I hope people understand the point im trying to get across?
ok yeah i understand,
i guess that add campains etc work quite well, i mean just look at the TAC and how they halfed the road toll in 20 years, so hopefully so will alcohol related violence
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" I think our problem now is lax parenting, especially at parties etc. "
agreed
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Yeah you are right ryan, increasing the drinking age will have no effect at all seeing as most parents buy their kids alcohol or allow them to drink anyway. Look at the US, the minimum drinking age is 21 and that seems to have to little effect in curbing violent and antisocial behaviour.
ive heard that alcohol is quite easy to access at US colleges and unis even if ur under 21 anyway
This goes to show, in Australia we are having SOME success. It seems form that simple sentence, we have a tougher stance on serving alcohol to those <18 (companies have been fined MILLIONS for failing this, and we have under cover people trying to buy alcohol when they are <18 etc to catch bad businesses). This ahs taken YEARS to work.
I think our problem now is lax parenting, especially at parties etc.
yea I agree that that's a good idea to catch business who sell to underage and then to can their lisence and not allow them to sell liquior after a warning and a hefty fine.
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" I think our problem now is lax parenting, especially at parties etc. "
agreed
also agreed. probably deserves another thread, but ultimately it is up to parents to control their kids.
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I found this good article, I learnt quiet a bit from it just now.
http://www.peele.net/lib/sociocul.html#vi
How Chinese children are introduced to drinking:
While drinking was socially sanctioned, becoming drunk was not. The individual who lost control of himself under the influence of liquor was ridiculed and, if he persisted in his defection, ostracized
How Italian youth, as distinct from American youth, are taught to drink:
"Italians, like Jews, are a group whose members tend to drink and to have low rates of alcohol problems. The attitudes and behaviors of Italians in the United States are a reflection of those in Italy, where children are introduced to alcohol as part of their regular family life and learn to drink moderate amounts while still young. In both countries, alcohol is commonly drunk with meals and is considered a natural and normal food.
People are not pressured to drink, and abstention does not offend others; drinking reflects sociability and social cohesion rather than a means to achieve them
In Australia
It's clear that heavy drinking was an established cultural norm transported to Australia along with other Anglo-Celtic cultural baggage. At the time of colonisation of Australia, it was the norm in Europe to drink heavily. It was the time of the gin epidemics which were devastating communities in Britain. Alcohol in Europe had long served as a food and source of nutrition as the diets of the time were very restricted and there wasn't a lot else to choose from. In some 19th century cities alcohol was also seen as a real alternative to water, or to anything that was water-based, because of problems of pollution. All these different factors led to traditions of heavy drinking being brought to Australia on the first fleets. Once in Australia, these heavy drinking traditions contributed significantly to the destruction of Indigenous culture.
http://www.dulwichcentre.com.au/alcohol-in-australia.html
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I found this good article, I learnt quiet a bit from it just now.
http://www.peele.net/lib/sociocul.html#vi
How Chinese children are introduced to drinking:
While drinking was socially sanctioned, becoming drunk was not. The individual who lost control of himself under the influence of liquor was ridiculed and, if he persisted in his defection, ostracized
How Italian youth, as distinct from American youth, are taught to drink:
"Italians, like Jews, are a group whose members tend to drink and to have low rates of alcohol problems. The attitudes and behaviors of Italians in the United States are a reflection of those in Italy, where children are introduced to alcohol as part of their regular family life and learn to drink moderate amounts while still young. In both countries, alcohol is commonly drunk with meals and is considered a natural and normal food.
People are not pressured to drink, and abstention does not offend others; drinking reflects sociability and social cohesion rather than a means to achieve them
Yeah, the Italian thing is very true. My grandfather was raised in Italy, and was drinking home made wine from the age of 7. It is simply apart of the culture.
Most people who I know drink just to get smashed, not because they actually enjoy alcohol. Quite sad actually.
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I found this good article, I learnt quiet a bit from it just now.
http://www.peele.net/lib/sociocul.html#vi
How Chinese children are introduced to drinking:
While drinking was socially sanctioned, becoming drunk was not. The individual who lost control of himself under the influence of liquor was ridiculed and, if he persisted in his defection, ostracized
How Italian youth, as distinct from American youth, are taught to drink:
"Italians, like Jews, are a group whose members tend to drink and to have low rates of alcohol problems. The attitudes and behaviors of Italians in the United States are a reflection of those in Italy, where children are introduced to alcohol as part of their regular family life and learn to drink moderate amounts while still young. In both countries, alcohol is commonly drunk with meals and is considered a natural and normal food.
People are not pressured to drink, and abstention does not offend others; drinking reflects sociability and social cohesion rather than a means to achieve them
In Australia
It's clear that heavy drinking was an established cultural norm transported to Australia along with other Anglo-Celtic cultural baggage. At the time of colonisation of Australia, it was the norm in Europe to drink heavily. It was the time of the gin epidemics which were devastating communities in Britain. Alcohol in Europe had long served as a food and source of nutrition as the diets of the time were very restricted and there wasn't a lot else to choose from. In some 19th century cities alcohol was also seen as a real alternative to water, or to anything that was water-based, because of problems of pollution. All these different factors led to traditions of heavy drinking being brought to Australia on the first fleets. Once in Australia, these heavy drinking traditions contributed significantly to the destruction of Indigenous culture.
http://www.dulwichcentre.com.au/alcohol-in-australia.html
i can see how this culture helps avoid binge drinking and its related crime, i think one problem in some western society is that we are denied it so much that as soon as ppl turn 18 they just cant hold back and end up going way to far
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I found this good article, I learnt quiet a bit from it just now.
http://www.peele.net/lib/sociocul.html#vi
How Chinese children are introduced to drinking:
While drinking was socially sanctioned, becoming drunk was not. The individual who lost control of himself under the influence of liquor was ridiculed and, if he persisted in his defection, ostracized
How Italian youth, as distinct from American youth, are taught to drink:
"Italians, like Jews, are a group whose members tend to drink and to have low rates of alcohol problems. The attitudes and behaviors of Italians in the United States are a reflection of those in Italy, where children are introduced to alcohol as part of their regular family life and learn to drink moderate amounts while still young. In both countries, alcohol is commonly drunk with meals and is considered a natural and normal food.
People are not pressured to drink, and abstention does not offend others; drinking reflects sociability and social cohesion rather than a means to achieve them
In Australia
It's clear that heavy drinking was an established cultural norm transported to Australia along with other Anglo-Celtic cultural baggage. At the time of colonisation of Australia, it was the norm in Europe to drink heavily. It was the time of the gin epidemics which were devastating communities in Britain. Alcohol in Europe had long served as a food and source of nutrition as the diets of the time were very restricted and there wasn't a lot else to choose from. In some 19th century cities alcohol was also seen as a real alternative to water, or to anything that was water-based, because of problems of pollution. All these different factors led to traditions of heavy drinking being brought to Australia on the first fleets. Once in Australia, these heavy drinking traditions contributed significantly to the destruction of Indigenous culture.
http://www.dulwichcentre.com.au/alcohol-in-australia.html
i can see how this culture helps avoid binge drinking and its related crime, i think one problem in some western society is that we are denied it so much that as soon as ppl turn 18 they just cant hold back and end up going way to far
yea aggree this happens so oftern ppl I know and try not to assicote with go most weekends drinking and partying in the city mainly getting smashed. Also the way acessability to fake ids is so easy these days or youths.
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i cant see how so many ppl actually get that "smashed", i swear the more alcohol u drink the worse it tastes lol :P
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i cant see how so many ppl actually get that "smashed", i swear the more alcohol u drink the worse it tastes lol :P
Nah, other way around. I've been so drunk before that I actually thought VB tasted good :o
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i cant see how so many ppl actually get that "smashed", i swear the more alcohol u drink the worse it tastes lol :P
Nah, other way around. I've been so drunk before that I actually thought VB tasted good :o
LOL, i guess id need to b pissed off my face b4 i even wanted to go near that sh*t again :P