ATAR Notes: Forum
General Discussion => General Discussion Boards => Rants and Debate => Topic started by: dejan91 on January 04, 2010, 05:25:44 pm
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It's such a piece of crap and should just burn. Any opposed? Discuss :)
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No opposition here...Hate the 120 hour laws aswell, its not feasible for a large portion of kids to drive that much or hire a driving instructor for 120 whole hours.
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i hate it too >_> 120 hours is just way too long! i think it should be 80ish instead
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I came up with a more reasonable idea than the 120 hours:
-60 hours all up
-However, First 10 hours MUST be with a qualified driving instructor.
Let's face it, 120 during VCE is just crazy...
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Yea today I realized i need 100hrs in next four months. I have no hope
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I think its completely justified. 120 hours is not much experience at all to be given the keys to a two tonne weapon that if used incorrectly could end up killing a crowd of people in a split second.
I have 119 hours to do in 9 months. :\
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Too bad taking defensive driving lessons don't count for anything.
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It definitely can get annoying filling it out (especially when you forget to check time/odometer).
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I think they should abolish the book and just up the intensity of the driving test. Make it harder and go for longer. I'd hate to be driving on the road with someone who sacrificed driving to get a good VCE score.
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I have 119 hours to go! :(
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i have 116 to go :(
but i just started lol :P
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i have 116 to go :(
but i just started lol :P
Same...but I started 1.5 years ago. With one auto car that is never home, the confident driver needing major surgery and unable to teach for many months and a truckload of homework, I just can't manage to clock up that much time. Oh well, maybe when I have a family, kids and a half decent job...
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I think I've done the most so-far, only 82 hours to go, but then again I have another 9 months to complete it.. Shouldn't be too hard, I hope.. :)
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Haha beat ya :P
I've got ~30 hours to go :) but it's still annoying.
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yea i recon its needed to get experience but this crap with 120 hours its just not possible in some cases. i think they just need to make more restrictions on the tests and test drivers in more circumstances.
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hmm I need to get my log book at some point =\
I'll probably graduate before I get Ps
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I probably did about 40-60 hours on my learners - suckers (I got in under the old laws).
120 hours seems like a fairly long period of time for school kids, however there is no chance of this number being reduced (ever). On the other hand, it'll make you a safer driver, so what's wrong with that? :)
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i got 19 hours left :D! but still loathe the 120 logging.
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its too much!
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You're all going to hate me for saying this, but I've got 120+ hours but driving to and from school everyday made it a lot easier to clock up the hours especially in heavy traffic where you just sit there twiddling your thumbs for most of the time.
But I still need 1 hour of night driving so that's not going to do me any good...
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I am a hater of this 120 hours requirement (I have spent many thousands of my savings on lessons).
People learn to drive differently, some pick it up faster than others, and some are more careful than others. It would be a lot better if instructor lessons were compulsory, and after a certain amount of time with the instructor, he/she must declare you being ready for the road-test. This has its own implementation difficulties, but it assesses each person based on how competent they are, as opposed to an one-size-fits-all system.
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hey do they actually check every entry? like count everything (hours,km) accurately?
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hey do they actually check every entry? like count everything (hours,km) accurately?
yerp and they dont count any entries that parts have been crossed out and rewritten cos of errors and stuff
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if this was a fb status id like the shit out of it
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hey do they actually check every entry? like count everything (hours,km) accurately?
They look over it, and select a few random entries to do a check. They make sure the kilometers match up with the time (average should be 35~40km/hr) with the given conditions, they make sure you have experienced a wide range of driving conditions, make sure your hours are added up reasonably and the signatures are not smudged suspiciously. On the odd cases that they're suspicious, they may look up the weather log to see if you were faking the weather conditions. Your attitude, nervousness, how racist they are and whether they got lucky last night can also play a major factor in whether they decide to be a massive bitch or not.
So basically, only fake hours if you know exactly what you're doing. ;) And make sure you keep a calm smile when facing the inspector.
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hey do they actually check every entry? like count everything (hours,km) accurately?
They look over it, and select a few random entries to do a check. They make sure the kilometers match up with the time (average should be 35~40km/hr) with the given conditions, they make sure you have experienced a wide range of driving conditions, make sure your hours are added up reasonably and the signatures are not smudged suspiciously. On the odd cases that they're suspicious, they may look up the weather log to see if you were faking the weather conditions. Your attitude, nervousness, how racist they are and whether they got lucky last night can also play a major factor in whether they decide to be a massive bitch or not.
So basically, only fake hours if you know exactly what you're doing. ;) And make sure you keep a calm smile when facing the inspector.
oh god, there goes my plan
grrrrr, some of my entries look smudged etc, but i swear i did them
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I hate the log book too. I've got about 45 hours left to go :[
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I am a hater of this 120 hours requirement (I have spent many thousands of my savings on lessons).
Jeez you must have failed quite a few times, I think I spent ~$80 all up on lessons (only had one) and some of my friends who failed 3 or so times only ended up spending ~$500 on lessons.
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hey do they actually check every entry? like count everything (hours,km) accurately?
They look over it, and select a few random entries to do a check. They make sure the kilometers match up with the time (average should be 35~40km/hr) with the given conditions, they make sure you have experienced a wide range of driving conditions, make sure your hours are added up reasonably and the signatures are not smudged suspiciously. On the odd cases that they're suspicious, they may look up the weather log to see if you were faking the weather conditions. Your attitude, nervousness, how racist they are and whether they got lucky last night can also play a major factor in whether they decide to be a massive bitch or not.
So basically, only fake hours if you know exactly what you're doing. ;) And make sure you keep a calm smile when facing the inspector.
oh god, there goes my plan
grrrrr, some of my entries look smudged etc, but i swear i did them
yea but the thing is if ur smart cheak shit like weather and add up km like when parents drie to work say it takes em 1hr check km when they leave and Come back. I recon it's ok but i'm gonna stay wat u guys recon?
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i was thinking that too
i cant see how vicroads could prove you wrong
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hey do they actually check every entry? like count everything (hours,km) accurately?
They look over it, and select a few random entries to do a check. They make sure the kilometers match up with the time (average should be 35~40km/hr) with the given conditions, they make sure you have experienced a wide range of driving conditions, make sure your hours are added up reasonably and the signatures are not smudged suspiciously. On the odd cases that they're suspicious, they may look up the weather log to see if you were faking the weather conditions. Your attitude, nervousness, how racist they are and whether they got lucky last night can also play a major factor in whether they decide to be a massive bitch or not.
So basically, only fake hours if you know exactly what you're doing. ;) And make sure you keep a calm smile when facing the inspector.
oh god, there goes my plan
grrrrr, some of my entries look smudged etc, but i swear i did them
yea but the thing is if ur smart cheak shit like weather and add up km like when parents drie to work say it takes em 1hr check km when they leave and Come back. I recon it's ok but i'm gonna stay wat u guys recon?
Just remember though, VicRoads might not be able to catch you now but in the end you're the one to suffer should you get in an accident while on your P's. Insurance is just so damn expensive. Plus any medical fees you might have to factor in when the worst arises.
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true :-\
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hey do they actually check every entry? like count everything (hours,km) accurately?
They look over it, and select a few random entries to do a check. They make sure the kilometers match up with the time (average should be 35~40km/hr) with the given conditions, they make sure you have experienced a wide range of driving conditions, make sure your hours are added up reasonably and the signatures are not smudged suspiciously. On the odd cases that they're suspicious, they may look up the weather log to see if you were faking the weather conditions. Your attitude, nervousness, how racist they are and whether they got lucky last night can also play a major factor in whether they decide to be a massive bitch or not.
So basically, only fake hours if you know exactly what you're doing. ;) And make sure you keep a calm smile when facing the inspector.
oh god, there goes my plan
grrrrr, some of my entries look smudged etc, but i swear i did them
yea but the thing is if ur smart cheak shit like weather and add up km like when parents drie to work say it takes em 1hr check km when they leave and Come back. I recon it's ok but i'm gonna stay wat u guys recon?
Just remember though, VicRo ads might not be able to catch you now but in the end you're the one to suffer should you get in an accident while on your P's. Insurance is just so damn expensive. Plus any medical fees you might have to factor in when the worst arises.
well true but sometime it's not feasable to wait till it 19ish till u can get 120hrs. I recon if u were 2 flog hrs you would be smart and do it in a similar fassion like I said . Though I do agree the more hrs the better. Well I won't e a full time driver till I'm 18 I'll just et it so I can borrow mums car and drive to shops and stuff cos as u said insurance is dam expensive.
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That. Not everyone is in a situation allowing them to complete 120 hours by the time they would need a car for work and life.
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annoyed that I have to wait a year to go for my P's although i already done the 120 hours. The new license looks decent though, the old one looks plain
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Anybody who can't get the hours clearly doesn't need a license.
I was able to get the 120 hours in a year, just drove my parents car on holidays and to school.
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hey do they actually check every entry? like count everything (hours,km) accurately?
They look over it, and select a few random entries to do a check. They make sure the kilometers match up with the time (average should be 35~40km/hr) with the given conditions, they make sure you have experienced a wide range of driving conditions, make sure your hours are added up reasonably and the signatures are not smudged suspiciously. On the odd cases that they're suspicious, they may look up the weather log to see if you were faking the weather conditions. Your attitude, nervousness, how racist they are and whether they got lucky last night can also play a major factor in whether they decide to be a massive bitch or not.
So basically, only fake hours if you know exactly what you're doing. ;) And make sure you keep a calm smile when facing the inspector.
oh god, there goes my plan
grrrrr, some of my entries look smudged etc, but i swear i did them
yea but the thing is if ur smart cheak shit like weather and add up km like when parents drie to work say it takes em 1hr check km when they leave and Come back. I recon it's ok but i'm gonna stay wat u guys recon?
Just remember though, VicRo ads might not be able to catch you now but in the end you're the one to suffer should you get in an accident while on your P's. Insurance is just so damn expensive. Plus any medical fees you might have to factor in when the worst arises.
well true but sometime it's not feasable to wait till it 19ish till u can get 120hrs. I recon if u were 2 flog hrs you would be smart and do it in a similar fassion like I said . Though I do agree the more hrs the better. Well I won't e a full time driver till I'm 18 I'll just et it so I can borrow mums car and drive to shops and stuff cos as u said insurance is dam expensive.
Fully understand what you're saying. That's probably one of the reasons why I recommend friends and family friends to get their L's as early as possible (ie. when they turn 16). That way, it gives you 2 years to get 120 hours so there's no rush to get 120 hours, even during the two years of VCE. Even if you don't plan or if it isn't feasible for you to drive regularly, you can be rest assured that you have your L's and that in most cases, you'll be exempt from any new law changes for L platers. As long as you have your L's and you can capitalise on the opportunity to drive whenever you can, then you can look back and not regret wasting time.
Also, I think that you actually need to buy insurance under your own name and then as you grow older (and get more experience in driving solo), the premiums get less expensive for you. That's how it works, right?
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That. Not everyone is in a situation allowing them to complete 120 hours by the time they would need a car for work and life.
That's one of the downsides of having it compulsory to get 120 hours. But in the end, the choice to fake it is up to the person. The end is that you're not really lying to Vicroads because the fact is that once you've passed the test, you won't have much to do with them. You're really lying to yourself. I'm not sure about other people but if I was a parent and I knew my child was going to fake some hours up, I don't know if I would be confident enough to let them behind the wheel by themselves, if you know what I mean.
EDIT: Fixed double quote.
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Anybody who can't get the hours clearly doesn't need a license.
I was able to get the 120 hours in a year, just drove my parents car on holidays and to school.
So having school a fair distance away, having a parent available at mornings and having a car that is drivable = need a licence? :P
What about needing a licence in the future. I thought the point of getting your L's, P's and full licence asap was...so you can drive. Am I supposed to wait until I have a job that is far from public transport, or a kid or something before I go for it?
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RE: Insurance.
My car's insurance is under my dad's name with my name as a secondary drive. The premium is WAY too expensive for it to be put into my name and some insurers (particularly the online ones like Youi) won't insure you at all. The excess is also fairly bitchy if you're the driver and you crash. It's basically the excess + $500 for being a P plater + $500 for being under 25.
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I am a hater of this 120 hours requirement (I have spent many thousands of my savings on lessons).
Jeez you must have failed quite a few times, I think I spent ~$80 all up on lessons (only had one) and some of my friends who failed 3 or so times only ended up spending ~$500 on lessons.
Nah, I had to use an instructor for the bulk of my 120 hours because my family cannot take me for lessons. The result is about ~80 hours at $40 each, you do the maths :)
Something very important is ignored by VicRoads: for migrant families who do not have Australian licenses, it is incredibly expensive and difficult for the 18 yo's to get a license. The only way to clock up these hours is either faking the hours, or forking out large sums to feed the driving instructor's family.
And I'm also sporting a very nice $1.6k insurance premium with $2.8k excess.
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hey do they actually check every entry? like count everything (hours,km) accurately?
They look over it, and select a few random entries to do a check. They make sure the kilometers match up with the time (average should be 35~40km/hr) with the given conditions, they make sure you have experienced a wide range of driving conditions, make sure your hours are added up reasonably and the signatures are not smudged suspiciously. On the odd cases that they're suspicious, they may look up the weather log to see if you were faking the weather conditions. Your attitude, nervousness, how racist they are and whether they got lucky last night can also play a major factor in whether they decide to be a massive bitch or not.
So basically, only fake hours if you know exactly what you're doing. ;) And make sure you keep a calm smile when facing the inspector.
oh god, there goes my plan
grrrrr, some of my entries look smudged etc, but i swear i did them
yea but the thing is if ur smart cheak shit like weather and add up km like when parents drie to work say it takes em 1hr check km when they leave and Come back. I recon it's ok but i'm gonna stay wat u guys recon?
Just remember though, VicRo ads might not be able to catch you now but in the end you're the one to suffer should you get in an accident while on your P's. Insurance is just so damn expensive. Plus any medical fees you might have to factor in when the worst arises.
well true but sometime it's not feasable to wait till it 19ish till u can get 120hrs. I recon if u were 2 flog hrs you would be smart and do it in a similar fassion like I said . Though I do agree the more hrs the better. Well I won't e a full time driver till I'm 18 I'll just et it so I can borrow mums car and drive to shops and stuff cos as u said insurance is dam expensive.
hey do they actually check every entry? like count everything (hours,km) accurately?
They look over it, and select a few random entries to do a check. They make sure the kilometers match up with the time (average should be 35~40km/hr) with the given conditions, they make sure you have experienced a wide range of driving conditions, make sure your hours are added up reasonably and the signatures are not smudged suspiciously. On the odd cases that they're suspicious, they may look up the weather log to see if you were faking the weather conditions. Your attitude, nervousness, how racist they are and whether they got lucky last night can also play a major factor in whether they decide to be a massive bitch or not.
So basically, only fake hours if you know exactly what you're doing. ;) And make sure you keep a calm smile when facing the inspector.
oh god, there goes my plan
grrrrr, some of my entries look smudged etc, but i swear i did them
yea but the thing is if ur smart cheak shit like weather and add up km like when parents drie to work say it takes em 1hr check km when they leave and Come back. I recon it's ok but i'm gonna stay wat u guys recon?
Just remember though, VicRo ads might not be able to catch you now but in the end you're the one to suffer should you get in an accident while on your P's. Insurance is just so damn expensive. Plus any medical fees you might have to factor in when the worst arises.
well true but sometime it's not feasable to wait till it 19ish till u can get 120hrs. I recon if u were 2 flog hrs you would be smart and do it in a similar fassion like I said . Though I do agree the more hrs the better. Well I won't e a full time driver till I'm 18 I'll just et it so I can borrow mums car and drive to shops and stuff cos as u said insurance is dam expensive.
Fully understand what you're saying. That's probably one of the reasons why I recommend friends and family friends to get their L's as early as possible (ie. when they turn 16). That way, it gives you 2 years to get 120 hours so there's no rush to get 120 hours, even during the two years of VCE. Even if you don't plan or if it isn't feasible for you to drive regularly, you can be rest assured that you have your L's and that in most cases, you'll be exempt from any new law changes for L platers. As long as you have your L's and you can capitalise on the opportunity to drive whenever you can, then you can look back and not regret wasting time.
Also, I think that you actually need to buy insurance under your own name and then as you grow older (and get more experience in driving solo), the premiums get less expensive for you. That's how it works, right?
^
That. Not everyone is in a situation allowing them to complete 120 hours by the time they would need a car for work and life.
That's one of the downsides of having it compulsory to get 120 hours. But in the end, the choice to fake it is up to the person. The end is that you're not really lying to Vicroads because the fact is that once you've passed the test, you won't have much to do with them. You're really lying to yourself. I'm not sure about other people but if I was a parent and I knew my child was going to fake some hours up, I don't know if I would be confident enough to let them behind the wheel by themselves, if you know what I mean.
LOL... you double quoted the same quote, Gloamy! hahah. xD
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You're all going to hate me for saying this, but I've got 120+ hours but driving to and from school everyday made it a lot easier to clock up the hours especially in heavy traffic where you just sit there twiddling your thumbs for most of the time.
But I still need 1 hour of night driving so that's not going to do me any good...
That's too easy :P Oh and the weird thing is, over half of my driving is at night so far (that's 40+ hours)!I am a hater of this 120 hours requirement (I have spent many thousands of my savings on lessons).
People learn to drive differently, some pick it up faster than others, and some are more careful than others. It would be a lot better if instructor lessons were compulsory, and after a certain amount of time with the instructor, he/she must declare you being ready for the road-test. This has its own implementation difficulties, but it assesses each person based on how competent they are, as opposed to an one-size-fits-all system.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Instead of saving for something worthwhile, you had to spend it on lessons to satisfy the government. I know I said lessons should be compulsory and all, but they should somehow be government subsidised. However, in saying that I wouldn't be in favour of your proposition Mao. The reason for the 120 hours isn't just to gain competence driving, it's to allow you to experience as many different road situations for you to be more equipped when you're driving on your own. So while I hate the log book and think 120 is excessive, there must be some amount of compulsory driving in different conditions (like the 10 hours of night driving).
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i agree that if the gov REALLY wants us to be competent drivers then lessons should be subsidised (not for every lesson, but at least a few hours)
in my experience, parents suck at teaching their kids how to drive, they dont properly teach techniques just basic actions etc
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In regards to faking hours, yes you are lying to yourself and only putting yourself at more risk. I wouldn't fake copious amounts of hours, but I tend to round up and overestimate travel time (especially if I haven't logged the trip in ages and am only estimating from memory).
On the other hand, what about all those learners before us who graduated to their P's through the old laws? Surely their not safe? Surely faking a few hours here and there isn't putting you at a disadvantage compared to them. It's all relative. Raise the amount of compulsory hours to 240, and then what happens if somebody fakes 30 hours? They've still completed more than the current 120 hours.
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Had my Ls for more than 30 months, clocked up 20 hrs.
Still got a while to go haha
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Don't fake hours, it's illegal. For the purposes of debate, I'll leave it alone but VCENotes will not condone the forging of a legal document.
Now that the disclaimer's out of the way, I think that 120 hours is a good reference point for the number of hours one should do before attempting the license test. However, from a regulation point of view, I'd prefer a slightly lower (maybe 80) number of minimum hours whilst moving to a competency-based learning system (where you'd have to get signed off by an instructor at various milestones against certain criteria) before sitting an exam.
And for those whinging about having to do 'x amount of hours in y amount of time', I have only one thing to say to you - you're ready when you're ready. You don't need to get your Ps the moment you turn 18. Besides, I think 120 hours is a very reasonable target spread over two years.
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Don't fake hours, it's illegal. For the purposes of debate, I'll leave it alone but VCENotes will not condone the forging of a legal document.
Lol...I was waiting for something along these lines to come up eventually.
Now that the disclaimer's out of the way, I think that 120 hours is a good reference point for the number of hours one should do before attempting the license test. However, from a regulation point of view, I'd prefer a slightly lower (maybe 80) number of minimum hours whilst moving to a competency-based learning system (where you'd have to get signed off by an instructor at various milestones against certain criteria) before sitting an exam.
Again, this whole 'milestone' thing wouldn't work; it's not about being able to do something in a once-off situation, it's about experience (and experience in a wide variety of conditions) and consistency. This is, sadly, something only large amounts of logged hours can achieve. Besides, people pick things up quicker than others, but that doesn't mean they're going to be better drivers in the long term... Like I said, it's about experience. I'm just saying filling out the learner log book is painfully boring :P
Besides, I think 120 hours is a very reasonable target spread over two years.
Yeah sure, in an average two years. But the reality is that it's sometimes unable to be accomplished due to the restrictions of VCE... And yes, you could say that there's no need to get your P's straight away when you're 18, but some people need a license straight away. For example, I have no direct route via public transport to Monash Uni and so it would take me ages to get there. By car however, it doesn't take long at all. So I'd need a car in that situation... But I'm going to Melbourne, so doesn't mater haha :P
Please don't ban me :)
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ive got 130 bs hours :P
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ive got 130 bs hours :P
please say you did at least someee of the hours