ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE University Enhancement Programs => Topic started by: taiga on July 30, 2011, 06:10:15 pm
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What do you guys think of the lack of a dedicated increment for Uni Subjects which is apparently coming in next year?
I did think it was a bit unfair that to compete at the very very top end of VCE (99.90+) it is almost a necessity, but I also don't like the fact that your effort in that subject doesn't translate directly to a mark which "counts" to your vce.
What're your thoughts?
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Especially with the restrictions still in place at melbourne high and other schools, some would benefit while others would not.
Yeah I actually see this as a valid reason as to why Melbourne High School students have such a huge proportion of 99.90s and not many 99.95s.
A lot of the 99.90 students at our school class of 2010 actually had ridiculous scores of 49+ in their bottom two, and in my opinion an HD at University is considerably easier than gaining a 50 in a subject. So I guess this should see it evening up at least.
Yeah it is extremely rare to see 99.95s without a language, or without Specialist Maths. I guess it's not exactly level at the top end =\
I do like your suggestion of a maximum 5.0 though, I think that would be a valid trade off for an HD (still more than it's worth IMO, but doesn't allow people to get an extra 0.5 that no one else has access to).
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Where did you hear about it taiga? I haven't seen/heard anything about this except on here..
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I can confirm it's being scrapped....it's going to be renamed a "Higher Education Study" and replaced with the 'avg of primary4'
---> @Bazza: If VET were as easy as you make it seem everyone would take it. It still has assignments and compulsory work placements.
Proof:
The current Extension Studies will become part of a new, broader program, Higher Education Studies within the VCE. This program will commence in 2012.
The program will make available first year higher education studies drawn from bachelor degrees offered through both universities and TAFE. These are studies that are an extension of VCE studies or comprise curriculum not offered in any VCE studies.
The higher education study will contribute to satisfactory completion of the VCE as an unscored Units 3 and 4 sequence. VTAC advises that this may count towards the students ATAR as a fifth or sixth study. For more information on how it contributes to your ATAR please contact VTAC.
The VCAA will publish the higher education studies available in 2012 on this web page. This information will be available in August next year.
Principles and Procedures for the inclusion of Higher Education Studies in the VCE (DOC - 99 KB)
This document explains the new arrangements for 2012.
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Not knowing about/completing a uni subject cost me dearly in the end.
IMO, VCE will only ever be fair when they force everyone to take one English, one maths, one humanities, one science, one LOTE and one enhancement uni subject/free choice subject. But then it will be criticised for a lack of freedom and choice.
Overall I think this a move in the right direction, but the system just blows and need to be completely overhauled/ditched.
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^ If you had taken VET your increment would have been 4.875.
But I agree...VCE blows and I hate the ESL system. Freaking fluent english speakers are smashing out 50 in ESL....loophole!
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^ If you had taken VET your increment would have been 4.875.
But I agree...VCE blows and I hate the ESL system. Freaking fluent english speakers are smashing out 50 in ESL....loophole!
Yeah, I am not exactly sure. But, I had 4.4 for my methods increment. If I had gotten 5.0 for uni increment last year (don't want to sound cocky but I would have done it easily) then I would not be in this stupid mess I am in now.
Then again if I had not rubbed out workings on my methods exam 2 I would not be in this situation anymore either... :/
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ssh :P
nah, there were other reasons. PM if you wna know.
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ssh :P
nah, there were other reasons. PM if you wna know.
The reason is there's a hot girl doing that VET class as well ;)
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Amusingly that's very true. :P
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It is changing its name to "Higher Education" studies, but the increment it will provide is listed below.
(Source: VICTER 2014 page 6 and 7, and confirmed by VTAC)
Upon satisfactory completion, the increment will be determined as follows:
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 90, the Higher Education increment will be 5.0.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 80 but less than 90, the Higher Education increment will be 4.5.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 70 but less than 80, the Higher Education increment will be 4.0.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 60 but less than 70, the Higher Education increment will be 3.5.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 50 but less than 60, the Higher Education increment will be 3.0.
EDIT: This increment system will be applied from 2012 onwards
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That makes it more representative of the effort you put in then :)
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wow wtf...
I'd love this but I already have VET :/
I'd pretty much (not to sound arrogant) smash HES Psych and get the 5.0 but my other VET is avg of primary 4 so essentially I ride everything on my primary 4....
If I get say a 45 avg on primary4 I get 4.5 from VET + 5 from HES Psych = 9.5/10 bottom2!!!!!
...sounds sick in theory but impossible in practice! =P
if only I was good @Eng....I swear I'd do it :/
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If I was confident that I'd get a 40 in English I'd do it but I'm going to get a 30 and thus primary4 is going 2b' shit :/
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possibly to get a direct link to VCAA or something? i'm still surprised all these sources were wrong :'(
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/studies/studiesextension.html#H2N1007B
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I quoted that on the prev page but where does it say it's increment? It says "pls contact VTAC" does it not?
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I quoted that on the prev page but where does it say it's increment? It says "pls contact VTAC" does it not?
http://www.vtac.edu.au/pdf/publications/victer2013.pdf
Oh yeah, VICTER 2013 - Page 6. Bottom right corner.
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I'm confused....
It says that and then:
Note: From 2012 Higher Education studies will include firstyear university studies and advanced standing TAFE courses
recognised by the VCAA and made available to VCE students
who are very able academically and have the endorsement
of their school principal. Upon satisfactory completion, these
studies will be counted as an increment in the calculation
of the ATAR. The increment will be calculated as 10% of
the average of the primary four studies, which is the same
calculation used for non-scorable VET studies
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It is changing its name to "Higher Education" studies, but the increment it will provide is listed below.
(Source: VICTER 2014 page 6 and 7, and confirmed by VTAC)
Upon satisfactory completion, the increment will be determined as follows:
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 90, the Higher Education increment will be 5.0.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 80 but less than 90, the Higher Education increment will be 4.5.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 70 but less than 80, the Higher Education increment will be 4.0.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 60 but less than 70, the Higher Education increment will be 3.5.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 50 but less than 60, the Higher Education increment will be 3.0.
EDIT: This increment system will be applied from 2012 onwards
interesting, this really does surprise as i have heard from many people including teachers, taiga, shinny, ssNake and other students that the increment would be removed....
hm...
Just goes to show that you can't always rely on hearsay.
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I'm confused....
It says that and then:
Note: From 2012 Higher Education studies will include firstyear university studies and advanced standing TAFE courses
recognised by the VCAA and made available to VCE students
who are very able academically and have the endorsement
of their school principal. Upon satisfactory completion, these
studies will be counted as an increment in the calculation
of the ATAR. The increment will be calculated as 10% of
the average of the primary four studies, which is the same
calculation used for non-scorable VET studies
Anyone care to explain? :S
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The whole change to extension/enhancement studies is a lot to do with the Bradley review. It's going to be an awkward year or few as tertiary institutes decide exactly how they will manage the changes and the follow on impact to students.
Initially VTAC had decided to give an increment that was 10% of the average of the primary 4 (as quoted in VICTER 2013 and which I posted about a while ago). Looks like they've changed the increment calculation due to feedback on the initial proposal (thank goodness). The details are published in VICTER 2014.
I will have exact VTAC confirmation to give you on Thursday but I'm confident with the information I posted earlier.
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so i'm really confused about this.
can someone pls explain?
is it the increment 10% of the average of your primary four
or is it
5.0 increment for over 90% in average mark in the HE study
etc.
PLUS
also it says in victer 2014 page 9
"Restrictions on use of approved Higher Education studies
in schools
If your ATAR incorporates a Higher Education increment from
any of the study areas of mathematics, English, LOTE, music,
history or computer science/information technology then
at most two VCE ATAR subject scores and/or VET increments
from that study area may be used."
so can I do methods, spesh maths and uni maths and have them all count to my ATAR?
+ is there anything else that i should know about higher education studies and the changes that have taken place because i am new to this.
thx so much =] :D
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I'll email VCAA tonight to try get you fellas a proper answer.
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Thanks, taiga.
This could decide if I do UMEP/MUEP or not. D=
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Confirmed information for the University of Melbourne Higher Education Studies program.
Rather than an increment of 4.05.5 points being added to the ATAR aggregate as they are now, from 2012 the increment will be calculated in the same way as it is for unscored VET studies. This means that upon satisfactory completion of the year of extension study an increment will be calculated as 10% of the average of the primary four VCE Unit 3/4 subjects.
Source: http://futurestudents.unimelb.edu.au/info/school-students/extension-program/resources/atar-increment
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No "official" confirmation from Monash, but I expect they will obviously have to follow suit.,
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Dubious indication that your performance (aside from Fail/Pass) will not influence your mark
The Victorian Tertiary Admissions Centre (VTAC) provides an ATAR increment for a higher education study as a fifth or sixth study, provided that the student has:
- satisfactorily completed four VCE Unit 3 and 4 sequences for which study scores have been calculated, including one from the English group
- satisfactorily completed at least one VCE Unit 3 and 4 sequence in the same year as the higher education study
- satisfactorily completed the full year of the higher education study
- been awarded a pass result by the higher education institution.
Source: VCAA document http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/vce/studies/principlesprocHEstudies2010.doc
Hope that clears up most concerns, I'll see if I can get a more in depth answer later on. That said, that VICTER source is a bit strange :S
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My thoughts are that it will lower the total number of students at the extreme top end completing University Enhancements (99.8+), and will in turn lower the aggregate for such scores by a little.
That said I disagree with the idea of your performance not influencing your end mark, hate it.
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Wait, I'm really confused..
Can you get a 5.5 for UMEP or not? The "How does it work?" thing on the UMEP website has the 5.5 increment? ..... WHAT?
How does that relate to your top 4 average?
Really would appreciate it if someone could simplify this change. Thanks.
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Wait, I'm really confused..
Can you get a 5.5 for UMEP or not? The "How does it work?" thing on the UMEP website has the 5.5 increment? ..... WHAT?
How does that relate to your top 4 average?
Really would appreciate it if someone could simplify this change. Thanks.
..............
Rather than an increment of 4.05.5 points being added to the ATAR aggregate as they are now, from 2012 the increment will be calculated in the same way as it is for unscored VET studies. This means that upon satisfactory completion of the year of extension study an increment will be calculated as 10% of the average of the primary four VCE Unit 3/4 subjects.
If you can miraculously get an average scaled score of 55 in your primary 4, then yes :P
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Wait, I'm really confused..
Can you get a 5.5 for UMEP or not? The "How does it work?" thing on the UMEP website has the 5.5 increment? ..... WHAT?
How does that relate to your top 4 average?
Really would appreciate it if someone could simplify this change. Thanks.
That's for this year.
On another note, VICTER 2013 (the one the UoM website says to refer to) says:
An increment will be awarded for the Higher Education study.
The higher education ATAR increment is calculated as follows:
• Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study
and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at
least 90, the Higher Education Increment will be 5.0
• Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study
and the average mark over all HE units awarded is at least 80
but less than 90, the Higher Education Increment will be 4.5
• Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study
and the average mark over all HE units awarded is at least 70
but less than 80, the Higher Education Increment will be 4.0
• Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study
and the average mark over all HE units awarded is at least 60
but less than 70, the Higher Education Increment will be 3.5
• Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study
and the average mark over all HE units awarded is at least 50
but less than 60, the Higher Education Increment will be 3.0.
Note: From 2012 Higher Education studies will include firstyear
university studies and advanced standing TAFE courses
recognised by the VCAA and made available to VCE students
who are very able academically and have the endorsement
of their school principal. Upon satisfactory completion, these
studies will be counted as an increment in the calculation
of the ATAR. The increment will be calculated as 10% ofthe average of the primary four studies, which is the samecalculation used for non-scorable VET studies.
:o
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olol. Yeah, I was a bit mislead with the table xD.
Tyty.
Uni Enhancments can smb.
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If you can miraculously get an average scaled score of 55 in your primary 4, then yes :P
Waiting for someone to accept this challenge...
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I would suggest pausing the speculations and quoting of 'plausible official sources' until later today. I trust chem-nerd will give the definite answer from VTAC (I assume there is a VTAC conference or VTAC publication or something). Any 'official sources' out there at the moment is probably outdated.
(Basically, chem-nerd has the answers. Trust that info.)
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It is changing its name to "Higher Education" studies, but the increment it will provide is listed below.
(Source: VICTER 2014 page 6 and 7, and confirmed by VTAC)
Upon satisfactory completion, the increment will be determined as follows:
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 90, the Higher Education increment will be 5.0.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 80 but less than 90, the Higher Education increment will be 4.5.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 70 but less than 80, the Higher Education increment will be 4.0.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 60 but less than 70, the Higher Education increment will be 3.5.
Where a student completes a Higher Education VCE study and the average mark over all the HE units awarded is at least 50 but less than 60, the Higher Education increment will be 3.0.
EDIT: This increment system will be applied from 2012 onwards
I can 100% confirm that this information is correct, straight from the VTAC mouth. Also, that it can count as either your 5th or 6th subject.