ATAR Notes: Forum
Administration => Site Discussion => General Site Discussion => Topic started by: ninwa on August 17, 2011, 11:48:24 pm
-
Just discussed the idea of a new debates-only board for the argument-loving members of this forum with enwiabe. We're keen to hear your views.
Overview
Entirely separate debates/rants board.
The default will be that users post entirely anonymously, although you can choose to post as yourself. This is to encourage people to share their opinions and views without it necessarily being linked to their account. National mods and admins will be able to see who you are, and if you break the CoC in any way your username will be outed and moderation action taken as necessary. Relevant SMF mod here unless someone can find a better one.
Posts in board do not count toward post count. Obviously they will also not appear in your account's posts unless you've chosen not to post anonymously.
If possible, posts in the board will not show up in Recent Posts so those who are not interested don't have to be bombarded by it.
There will be no respect system. This is so people don't lose respect points for simply having an opinion. It is up to mod discretion how they choose to deal with obvious troublemakers. Also, you'll still be able to report posts.
edit: new option, see Re: Proposal: new debates board (yes, including religion -_-)
Suggestions/comments welcome.
-
Great idea, I just hope the idea doesn't lead to a result of but this religion says, no but this religion says.
I have nothing against religion and as it allows people to have faith in something, I believe religion even if I am an atheist to be beneficial.
However, I hope others will please use this opportunity if approved to be able to debate issues other then religion.
Could it be suggested that we have a topic of the week as to allow us to discuss something central in the media at that given time?
-
Will mods and admins be required to hold by the Code of Conduct? Or is that just for us plebs
-
I note that many users were unhappy with several posts made in the rants/debates section (presumably on the basis of them impeding on the beliefs of others).
It seems the rest of the administration believes such posts are in line with the CoC, so this proposal doesn't do anything to reduce the presence of them, but to simply move them to another place. The anonymous nature of future posts may also increase the intensity of such posts, and given what is happening now has been decided to be in line with the CoC, I question the extent to which cohesive moderation can take place under this system.
I ask members to take this into account before making your vote.
-
Good idea; it might encourage both regular users and mods to let their hair down. A yes vote from me (though I rather scoff at the idea of people having such delicate sensibilities that they can't bear the idea of happening upon a web page containing an opinion they dislike.)
-
Will mods and admins be required to hold by the Code of Conduct? Or is that just for us plebs
And keep in mind that we're not just one entity acting in line with one another. While we try to be cohesive for the most part, several issues have often led to mods standing up against each other and even (especially?) the admins. If something's going on, someone will pick it up.
-
Will mods and admins be required to hold by the Code of Conduct? Or is that just for us plebs
And keep in mind that we're not just one entity acting in line with one another. While we try to be cohesive for the most part, several issues have often led to mods standing up against each other and even (especially?) the admins. If something's going on, someone will pick it up.
Nina and I like to make it a habit to give the mod titles only to people who we know can think for themselves ;)
-
Nina and I like to make it a habit to give the mod titles only to people who we know can think for themselves
I completely and unreservedly agree.
/seriouspost
Debate section - useful but I don't see how it solves the problem of threads spiraling out of control. It seems to just confine it to a particular subforum, which is good but not exactly perfect
-
The reasoning is that these debate threads are going to pop up no matter what we do, so we might as well damage control as best we can and make sure that the forum is hidden for those with "delicate sensibilities" (as MbR put it).
The other option is to ban them entirely, which I would support, but a lot of members would probably get up in arms about that.
-
The other option is to ban them entirely, which I would support, but a lot of members would probably get up in arms about that.
Perhaps start a 'debate about having a debate board' board then.
-
Wouldn't solve the problem.
-
Wasn't this suggested a while ago, when there were more vicious debates going on? I've been a bit inactive on the debate areas so I'm not entirely sure what the new reason for suggesting this is...
The anonymous thing sounds good, perhaps have a button that people click... like Suspected Troll. It wouldn't send emails to mods or anything (that's what the report button would be for), but just when a mod goes to the forum they can check out the suspected troll posts and see if any actually are just bored teenagers.
Wouldn't solve the problem.
Thank you for that detailed and informative opinion.
-
The anonymous thing sounds good, perhaps have a button that people click... like Suspected Troll. It wouldn't send emails to mods or anything (that's what the report button would be for), but just when a mod goes to the forum they can check out the suspected troll posts and see if any actually are just bored teenagers.
We already have this, but nobody uses the report function, they just start fights in threads.
-
The other option (and I should have added it in the poll earlier) is to ban any threads with religious overtones. Most other debates threads don't seem to get nearly as fiery (except maybe the carbon tax one)
You can change your votes now
-
We already have this, but nobody uses the report function, they just start fights in threads.
I used it a couple of times...
Looks like I'm a minority :(
To add something to this discussion, the biggest problem I find with religious debate threads is that they seem to go totally off-topic and end with a 'god vs no god' debate, followed by a lock. I think for this to work, bans (temporary, of course) need to be more strictly enforced on such off-topic discussion. And if this means tempo banning mods/admin (:o -is that even possible?) then so be it, as it should be a level playing field in a good debate. This is probably a bit extreme (and stupid?) but, maybe if someone starts a permanent 'god vs no god' (or 'religion vs no religion') thread with your notion of anonymity for users if they wish, other threads might stay on track. Just a thought I had, not sure if its viable or logical though.
Just my two cents. :)
-
What exactly is the point of having anonymous posts? If it's so people aren't worried about what other people think, then it's a bit pointless when mods/admins can see who is posting what. Not naming names here, but I think a lot of people are going to be put off posting stuff (especially regarding religion) when they know that certain people participating in the debates can see who's who. I'd say people would be just as worried about what admins/mods think as regular users, if not more so.
I understand that mods/admins need to see who's who for moderating purposes, so I don't think the anonymity function is particularly helpful when half of the people participating in the debate can identify everyone anyway.
-
That's why I added the "ban religious discussion" option.
-
The anonymous thing sounds good, perhaps have a button that people click... like Suspected Troll. It wouldn't send emails to mods or anything (that's what the report button would be for), but just when a mod goes to the forum they can check out the suspected troll posts and see if any actually are just bored teenagers.
We already have this, but nobody uses the report function, they just start fights in threads.
yes they do everybody does wanna take this outside i will destroy you!11!1 when im through with you your gonna be so russty not even WD-40 can save ur oxidised ass
(yeah I know, I mean an alternative to the report button... one where you just flag the comment and it gets checked at some point... if that made sense)
-
As I said, I'm all in favour of ninwa's proposal. However, I don't really see what's wrong with things as they are. If you hate acrimony, it shouldn't be too difficult to discern which threads to avoid, (unlike in past AN eras, when people squabbled about notebooks and how to treat pre-pubescent members and suchlike.)
-
Damn, probably shouldve had a "keep status quo" option
However, acrimonious threads seem to re-occur every month or so, with the accompanying discussions over whether to ban certain debate topics, so the current system apparently isn't working
What exactly is the point of having anonymous posts? If it's so people aren't worried about what other people think, then it's a bit pointless when mods/admins can see who is posting what. Not naming names here, but I think a lot of people are going to be put off posting stuff (especially regarding religion) when they know that certain people participating in the debates can see who's who. I'd say people would be just as worried about what admins/mods think as regular users, if not more so.
I understand that mods/admins need to see who's who for moderating purposes, so I don't think the anonymity function is particularly helpful when half of the people participating in the debate can identify everyone anyway.
So those who may be timid about posting their own opinions might be more tempted to do so under the cover of anonymity. Also, I think normal members make up the majority of those participating in debate.
Mods and admins will keep a strict code of confidentiality (replied won't hint at who the commenter is, etc.) unless the CoC is actually breached.
-
Religious debates(?) are probably the best way to target a large chunk of students and intimidate the hell out of them such that they don't want to stay here.
-
I don't see the point of being anonymous either, why be afraid to stand up to what you believe in?
And yes, ban religious debates. I think I'm only one of the two ( from the votes) who wants it. If you want to discuss something or an issue you have with religion or a particular religion go and PM the respective people privately.
-
And yes, ban religious debates. I think I'm only one of the two ( from the votes) who wants it. If you want to discuss something or an issue you have with religion or a particular religion go and PM the respective people privately.
+1, but unfortunately the majority has spoken
-
If we're going to implement the board, should we use an SMF mod to prevent people from posting threads without moderator approval? So you submit your OP and it has to be checked to make sure it's had effort put into it and is well constructed rather than "abortion is evil, discuss".
I don't mind writing up some OPs if people want definite topics to start with
-
And yes, ban religious debates. I think I'm only one of the two ( from the votes) who wants it. If you want to discuss something or an issue you have with religion or a particular religion go and PM the respective people privately.
+1, but unfortunately the majority has spoken
Adding in an option once 20 people have voted won't work -.-
-
Adding in an option once 20 people have voted won't work -.-
even if the neutrals and negatives had all voted to ban religious threads, it would still be the minority
If we're going to implement the board, should we use an SMF mod to prevent people from posting threads without moderator approval? So you submit your OP and it has to be checked to make sure it's had effort put into it and is well constructed rather than "abortion is evil, discuss".
I don't mind writing up some OPs if people want definite topics to start with
Good idea but then you'll open the floodgates of "mod abuse" etc
-
Debate board = good idea, +1 from me.
No respect = really smart, definitely another +1.
However, I'm really really skeptical of anonymous posting. If anything it seems to me like it's going to be more of an outlet for trolling then anybody being too "shy" to post on their real account. If people really are scared of saying their opinion they can just as easily make a new account with a proxy anyway, I don't think having an anonymous post option is going to do anything positive.
-
^ I agree. Having another board as such wouldn't be a problem, but anonymous boards seem to be asking for trouble. People are even nastier than usual if it means that they won't get caught out and so the quality of debates would suffer.
It's also probably worth remembering that the vast vast majority of debates on AN are fine and respectful, it's just a few really contentious issues that can sometimes get a little out of hand.
-
Okay, well, without anonymous posting it's pretty much the same old debates/rant board except respect has been disabled
-
Okay, well, without anonymous posting it's pretty much the same old debates/rant board except respect has been disabled
That works. Maybe we could also establish a rule against petty name calling/attacking people instead of arguments as well. I think that would be helpful.
-
But Chavi's not active anymore..
-
I don't think the anonymity is a big deal, given they're still shown to nmods and admins. If anything, I'd be harsher on someone who was being a jerk from behind an anonymous post