ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Universities - Victoria => University of Melbourne => Topic started by: Chromeo33 on September 29, 2011, 10:50:50 pm
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.. but at UoM, do they allow you to undertake lower level subjects in higher years?
E.g. In your second year of uni, are you allowed to take Level 1 subjects (e.g. "Biomolecules and Cells")?
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Nope, not a stupid question :) They allow you to do that - only some restrictions on how many higher level subjects you can do in first year, for example. And you have to fulfil a certain amount of subjects at each level for each course.
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You can do your first year subjects at any time, with two restrictions:
1. You need some of them as prerequisites for higher subjects.
2. You can only take a total of 125 level one points (10 subjects), after this you are unable to enroll in any other first year subjects.
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Sweet, thanks for that guys
If it makes any difference, I'm asking in regards to the Bachelor of Science? So do those same rules apply?
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Oh! And another potentially stupid question!
Instead of doing weird, irrelevant-to-your-course breadth subjects, do they allow you to take 'relevant-to-your-course' subjects INSTEAD of breadth? What are the rules for that?
E.g. In the place of a breadth subject, could I instead do "Biomolecules and Cells"?
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Umm I think biomolecules and cells is biomed specific.. And your breadth can't be from your degree I'm pretty sure.. So no real science subjects.
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So there really is no flexibility with the Science degree!
I mean each major requires prereqs of the same scientific field from previous years of uni study, so technically, you're pretty much just doing any other degree (outside of UoM). They've just simply dubbed it the Melbourne Model and taken away the privilege of doing a double degree and replaced it with a Masters.
If anything, they've restricted you even more by making you take up pointless breadth subjects which could be spent on subjects that could complement your degree!
It's not so 'generalist' as UoM makes the Melbourne Model out to be.
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So there really is no flexibility with the Science degree!
I mean each major requires prereqs of the same scientific field from previous years of uni study, so technically, you're pretty much just doing any other degree (outside of UoM). They've just simply dubbed it the Melbourne Model and taken away the privilege of doing a double degree and replaced it with a Masters.
If anything, they've restricted you even more by making you take up pointless breadth subjects which could be spent on subjects that could complement your degree!
It's not so 'generalist' as UoM makes the Melbourne Model out to be.
https://breadth.unimelb.edu.au/breadth/info/Science.html
Refer to dot point one. You are allowed to take 25 points of "science" breadths if your in the BSci degree. I disagree, you can still take subjects from a different course that complement your degree. There are alot of Arts and University Breadth subjects which are Science related. Breadths will only be pointless if you choose pointless Breadth subjects. There is a plethora of useful Breadth subjects at your disposal at Melbourne. There is no way that I could do 4 science subject concurrently as it would just be too overwhelming. I don't know how students from other uni's manage that (maybe Melbourne demands alot more from their students in their science curriculum). It's definitely nice to do something completely different, but nevertheless you could definitely choose "sciency" breadths if you wanted to.
Science is definitely flexible depending on how you choose your subjects. With the subjects I am doing, I have the option of majoring in Biochemistry, Pathology, Human Structure and Function, Physiology and Biotechnology. I'm doing my second year now so I have the option of 5 majors which I don't need to decide until the final year of my degree. I can't see this being the case at any other university. (in the end, if your going to decide to do med or one of those health sciences; your major will be irrelevant). You would only need to do the relevant 2nd year Biochemistry, Anatomy and Physiology (and the relevant 1st year prereqs: chem&biol) subjects and the other subjects you can pick anything that you like.
I guess the moral of this story is, Melbourne Science is totally flexible; depending on how you choose your subjects. You could make the course as general or as restricted as you like =).
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Gamelan Ensemble, if thats not flexibility...,
How are you finding it peedles?
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If anything, they've restricted you even more by making you take up pointless breadth subjects which could be spent on subjects that could complement your degree!
Don't take pointless breadth then? If you're studying genetics as a major, take genetics/health/society as breadth. If you're studying anatomy as a major, take mind/body/medicine as breadth. If you're studying microbiology as a major, take living longer as a breadth. I can do this for every major, if you have a particular one in mind :P
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If anything, they've restricted you even more by making you take up pointless breadth subjects which could be spent on subjects that could complement your degree!
Don't take pointless breadth then? If you're studying genetics as a major, take genetics/health/society as breadth. If you're studying anatomy as a major, take mind/body/medicine as breadth. If you're studying microbiology as a major, take living longer as a breadth. I can do this for every major, if you have a particular one in mind :P
Omg are you serious!? I thought they said you couldn't take breadth subjects that are in any way related to Science..
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If anything, they've restricted you even more by making you take up pointless breadth subjects which could be spent on subjects that could complement your degree!
Don't take pointless breadth then? If you're studying genetics as a major, take genetics/health/society as breadth. If you're studying anatomy as a major, take mind/body/medicine as breadth. If you're studying microbiology as a major, take living longer as a breadth. I can do this for every major, if you have a particular one in mind :P
Omg are you serious!? I thought they said you couldn't take breadth subjects that are in any way related to Science..
Well apart from the 2 free breadths subjects (25 points) where you are able to choose science or a subject out of your faculty, the other (50 points) of breadth study must be chosen from a different faculty other than science. That being said, there are subjects in other faculties which are science related.
Mike: Gamelan is awesome as, it's such a break from all my other subjects and it is fun !! It's marked on a bell curve though, but from the people who I've seen play, I think I should be okay ;).
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There are breath tracks and breadth fields which are related to science - they usually have to do with science and society or science and history.
But now a question for you - I'm just curious as to why you see breadth to be such a bad thing and why you don't want to do anything unrelated to science. I can understand that science is what you are interested in and the degree you wish to get, but why the lack of interest in other complementary fields? I don't mean to sound accusatory, I'm just wondering!
Many find a break from their core studies to be very refreshing. I was disappointed that I couldn't take breadth in my old gen course. Additionally, my perspective of a well rounded education is one in which you step outside your chosen field and learn about something new. But maybe it takes being flooded with a whole lot of science (or anything really) to see things in the same light, I suppose. Perhaps you will feel differently once enrolled and out of high school, where you tend to be forced to participate in an array of subjects. You may find that you miss daydreaming through double English when it's no longer available to you! I never thought I would miss Science as much as I did, but look where we are now.
One thing I notice about accusations from those not enrolled at Melbourne about the Melbourne model is that many think /all/ breadth options will be completely irrelevant to your degree. But this isn't the case - as long as you choose your subjects wisely then there's no reason that you should be wasting your effort and money on something that won't benefit your education. And just because you choose something unrelated to science doesn't mean that it's pointless to your degree. Many tend to assume your breadth subjects will be things like wine camp and African drumming from the outset, and some students do choose these things - but that's their decision. I wouldn't make those choices myself, and you don't have to - there are a plethora of subjects which gauge your interests about life, society and the world in general as well as things you might like as hobbies like music or literature.
So I guess where I am going with this long rant, should you still be reading, is that the Melbourne model is not inherently bad in my eyes. I look forward to gaining a specialised education in my chosen field of science, whatever that is. But I also look forward to knowing that I've extended by education beyond that narrow field of view to something that will help me later on - not only in my chosen career, but also in my everyday life. For instance, subjects I've taken in politics have helped me to understand our political system and how it functions - obviously this isn't immediately valuable to a career in the biological sciences but it is valuable with regard to my credibility as a member of our society.
The biggest critics of the Melbourne model tend to be those in favour of vocational degrees. And so let me just conclude by saying - if you're so against the Melbourne model, is it because you wish your degree to be more vocational than 'academically' based? Because that not really what Melbourne ever intended to offer in a Bachelor degree, and it's best that you recognise this from the outset. There's no use getting frustrated with their broad take on education if you would much prefer a more narrowly based course.
Sorry if I sound like a massive Melbourne ad campaign, I usually don't voice my opinions on the model here, haha. In short, your breadth can complement your degree...but only if you want it to. Don't take things like Choir and invest your time and money in worthwhile endeavours.
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The idea of breadth options is good. I don't think it should be enforced though.
Students in generic degrees at Monash and other universities all end up with equal numbers of elective units as the UoM breadth options. The only difference is you don't have to take these electives from outside of your faculty. A science student may choose electives in a different area of science, or do more subjects in their specialized field, or take something completely different. The preference depends on the person.
I appreciate the fact that doing something unrelated can be eye-opening, and makes the student more 'all-rounded' and knowledgeable. But is it necessary to make it examinable? I would much rather have a conversation than be tested on how well I can regurgitate.
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Oh Mao, do the logic breadth then tell me its regurgitation
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I appreciate the fact that doing something unrelated can be eye-opening, and makes the student more 'all-rounded' and knowledgeable. But is it necessary to make it examinable? I would much rather have a conversation than be tested on how well I can regurgitate.
Probably not, but nobody is forcing people who don't want to take breadth to enroll in Melbourne over Monash if that's the way they feel.
There's just no point in getting angry about a model that you elect to partake in. If someone has such an issue with breadth, that's a reason why they might look elsewhere.
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I can see both sides of the argument - although Mao, I must disagree with you - having a conversation is not really equivalent to taking subjects in it.
With Breadth, I see it as an opportunity to be able to pursue an interest. For example with myself, I wish to do Medicine, but I have a strong interest in Mathematics and Writing (Creative Writing) - so that's why I wish that Monash allows us the opportunity to take breadth subjects as part of their MBBS course - but they don't :(
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I appreciate the fact that doing something unrelated can be eye-opening, and makes the student more 'all-rounded' and knowledgeable. But is it necessary to make it examinable? I would much rather have a conversation than be tested on how well I can regurgitate.
Probably not, but nobody is forcing people who don't want to take breadth to enroll in Melbourne over Monash if that's the way they feel.
There's just no point in getting angry about a model that you elect to partake in. If someone has such an issue with breadth, that's a reason why they might look elsewhere.
Valid point. However, it can put people at huge inconveniences, such as people in western suburbs having to travel all the way to Monash to avoid breadths. I personally am a huge fan of breadth of knowledge, but I wouldn't like to think everyone must strive for the same breadth of knowledge to qualify for my degree.
Maybe the compulsory breadth is what makes UoM bachelor 'better'.
I can see both sides of the argument - although Mao, I must disagree with you - having a conversation is not really equivalent to taking subjects in it.
No it's not, but you cannot deny having a conversation is a great way to learn (if you talk to the right people). Over the last couple of years, I have learnt much more by chatting to people than sitting in any lecture room.
With Breadth, I see it as an opportunity to be able to pursue an interest. For example with myself, I wish to do Medicine, but I have a strong interest in Mathematics and Writing (Creative Writing) - so that's why I wish that Monash allows us the opportunity to take breadth subjects as part of their MBBS course - but they don't :(
You must also appreciate that some people have interests that doesn't involve in taking a class, or some people would like to pursue it in their own time instead of having to sit an assessment in it. Whilst it is regrettable you don't get to take electives, I think it's even worse to force people to take subjects they are not interested in.
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However, with the amount of variety in breadth options, I think it's nearly impossible to find something you wouldn't be interested in. Perhaps you ideally wouldn't take the subjects if you were given an option, but to suggest people aren't interested in anything but (for instance) straight Science is too simplistic.
Still, this issue is obviously what prompted the reduction in the breadth requirements for current degrees. Perhaps it would be ideal for the university to reduce the /requirements/ even further (but not the possibility of doing six), to two or three subjects. That would probably please a greater majority of students and future applicants.
I still think that some breadth is important though, even if it's just the slightest bit.
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Mavisgibbons, it's just that I wanted to do calculus 1, calculus 2 and linear algebra in my degree so I could be eligible for consideration into the Master of Engineering postgrad courses. But seeing as we have to do breadth I was just wondering if I would've been able to fit those math courses into breadth spaces without having to significantly sacrifice subject spaces. I didn't intend for my post to be much of an attack on the Melbourne Model, soz. :(
I was just wondering if I could save subject space by not having to do some breadth! :)
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Mavisgibbons, it's just that I wanted to do calculus 1, calculus 2 and linear algebra in my degree so I could be eligible for consideration into the Master of Engineering postgrad courses. But seeing as we have to do breadth I was just wondering if I would've been able to fit those math courses into breadth spaces without having to significantly sacrifice subject spaces. I didn't intend for my post to be much of an attack on the Melbourne Model, soz. :(
I was just wondering if I could save subject space by not having to do some breadth! :)
Lol I totally understand, I'm not offended man! Don't worry :)
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Mavisgibbons, it's just that I wanted to do calculus 1, calculus 2 and linear algebra in my degree so I could be eligible for consideration into the Master of Engineering postgrad courses. But seeing as we have to do breadth I was just wondering if I would've been able to fit those math courses into breadth spaces without having to significantly sacrifice subject spaces. I didn't intend for my post to be much of an attack on the Melbourne Model, soz. :(
I was just wondering if I could save subject space by not having to do some breadth! :)
You only have to do four breadth in total, and these can be spread out at any point in your degree, so it's fairly flexible, and the four subjects shouldn't really be enough to stop you doing anything that you want to do.
Also, another point on the usefulness of breadth, even if you're not using the information you've learnt, I think a big part is the actual skills. A lot of science students don't know how to write well or analyse academic essays etc., which they can learn to do by taking a breadth subject that is about science, but requires them to do more than just science experiments and things. You'd be surprised how important certain skills can be in the future that your degree might not directly teach.
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Mmm yeah schmalex, I only found out about that 4 breadth subject only rule a couple of days ago so now I really do see the flexibility in the Melbourne Mod!
Lol mavisgibbons, <3 Melbourne Uni!