ATAR Notes: Forum

Archived Discussion => Science => 2011 => End-of-year exams => Exam Discussion => Victoria => Biology => Topic started by: Russ on November 04, 2011, 10:00:06 am

Title: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Russ on November 04, 2011, 10:00:06 am
What was it like, do tell.

Also if somebody acquired a copy of the exam, some of us are curious!

Charmz kindly scanned the exam (so be sure to thank her) and you can find it here

Connect Education provided suggested solutions which are available here. Discussion on them will take place from here onwards in the thread
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: mjwalka on November 04, 2011, 11:13:31 am
Hmm
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: chrysalis on November 04, 2011, 11:17:50 am
I didn't find it too bad, but what did you guys say for where RNA polymerase is found? I didn't know whether they were referring to a structure listed or an organelle (nucleus)! Even my biology teacher said it was terribly worded.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Truck on November 04, 2011, 11:21:15 am
The pedigree for the horses which said the lethal alleles were homozygous was super lame because I couldn't tell if it meant homozygous recessive or homozygous dominant or both. I also think I got 2 or 3 of the MC wrong. Overall a reasonably easy exam but IMO there were a few tough questions. Also I said the RNA polymerase was found in the nucleus but that was another shoddy question.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: pi on November 04, 2011, 11:23:46 am
Someone upload please! Wanna see this!

Harder than last year guys?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Base on November 04, 2011, 11:26:18 am
I'd say it was about same as last years.

What structure did everyone say for the RNA Polymerase?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Kaylain on November 04, 2011, 11:28:01 am
I assumed the lethal allele combinations were homozygous dominant AND recessive so I got 50% and 75% respectively :S

Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: BoredSatan on November 04, 2011, 11:28:24 am
Someone upload please! Wanna see this!

Harder than last year guys?
SAME
last years was piss easy though..
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: chrysalis on November 04, 2011, 11:30:26 am
 ^   I said strand G only because I thought we needed to use something already labelled. Otherwise I would've gone with nucleus. :/   I think I assumed homozygous recessive was lethal. Damn.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Kaylain on November 04, 2011, 11:34:02 am
Nah that question had terrible wording as well and I thought it was quite troublesome they made us construct a dihybrid cross/Punnett Square just to find 2 probabilities for 2 marks ???
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: jane1234 on November 04, 2011, 11:38:19 am
I hate you VCAA and your ambiguous questions.

-_-
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: bawse on November 04, 2011, 11:41:15 am
Ran out of god damn time. I didn't think it was too hard, but because of poor time management I've messed up my mark... hope I can at least scrape a C for it.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: choc001 on November 04, 2011, 11:41:52 am
Nah that question had terrible wording as well and I thought it was quite troublesome they made us construct a dihybrid cross/Punnett Square just to find 2 probabilities for 2 marks ???

did we have to construct a punnett square??????????
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Bing 101 on November 04, 2011, 11:46:24 am
What was the other type of DNA you could use aside from Mitochondrial DNA?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Base on November 04, 2011, 11:47:10 am
Also can someone clarify this:

The question that had to do with the HERDA trait, was the Heterozygous female crossed with a Heterozygous male or Homozygous male?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: latifa on November 04, 2011, 11:49:45 am
It was ribosomal dna..
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Reckoner on November 04, 2011, 11:50:35 am
Found the exam ok, about the same difficulty as 2010. The question with the horses and HERDA was very poorly worded and a bit ambiguous.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 11:50:53 am
I'm scanning it now.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 11:53:07 am
What was the other type of DNA you could use aside from Mitochondrial DNA?
i used nuclear DNA. It was the most obvious one i could think of.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: latifa on November 04, 2011, 11:53:15 am
HEY GUYS... does anyone have the correct answers for all the multiple choice? would really appericiate it if u could tell me the ans.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Russ on November 04, 2011, 11:54:48 am
I'm scanning it now.

Did you do the midyear as well? If so, quite dedicated :P
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: jane1234 on November 04, 2011, 11:59:10 am
What was the other type of DNA you could use aside from Mitochondrial DNA?
i used nuclear DNA. It was the most obvious one i could think of.

I said Y-chromosomal DNA which is the same as nuclear DNA I guess... but because it is only passed down from father to son so not subject to recombination etc etc...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: mrc93 on November 04, 2011, 11:59:50 am
It was ribosomal dna..

ribosomes only have rna
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Kaylain on November 04, 2011, 12:02:03 pm
did we have to construct a punnett square??????????

Nahh just that I always conctruct one to do probabilities :P
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Russ on November 04, 2011, 12:05:10 pm
When Charmz uploads them all, I'll pdf it and edit it into his first post/OP and clean the duplicates up. Thanks for doing it, you're awesome :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: impossible.is.nothing on November 04, 2011, 12:08:28 pm
What was the other type of DNA you could use aside from Mitochondrial DNA?

i wrote chromosomal dna but i dont know if that was correct =\
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: latifa on November 04, 2011, 12:10:34 pm
It was ribosomal dna..

ribosomes only have rna
yh my bad ur right!!!  but i checked my book n it said that ribosomal rna are useful for investigating the phylogeny of different organism. it didnt occur 2 me dat da question was asking for dna other then mtdna. btw i was supposed to write ribosomal rna not dna..soz i made a mistake. good u pointed it out thnx!!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: impossible.is.nothing on November 04, 2011, 12:13:25 pm
I think the exam was difficult in the sense that it was time consuming.. >.<
Does anyone remember the question about the chromosomes with the flys or something? =\
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: nubs on November 04, 2011, 12:24:28 pm
What was the other type of DNA you could use aside from Mitochondrial DNA?
Nuclear DNA i think
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: cricketstar on November 04, 2011, 12:30:47 pm
thought it was nuclear DNA too, does anyone have suggested solutions for the exam yet??
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: geo3. z on November 04, 2011, 12:34:23 pm
I thought it was none coding regions in chromsomes in the nucleus.



All in all that was both the hardest and easiest exam ever.
So many questions were so stuffed up.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 12:34:43 pm
i thought sections of the multiple choice was more challenging than 2010 but extended response was similar, the horse questions was stupid as well as the stupid where is RNA polymerase found .. i wrote the nucleus ....  can someone please put up suggested solutions ?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 12:38:03 pm
I'm pretty sure RNA polymerase is what allows transcription to occur. So yes it would be in the nucleus. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: mrc93 on November 04, 2011, 12:39:20 pm
I'm pretty sure RNA polymerase is what allows transcription to occur. So yes it would be in the nucleus. Correct me if I'm wrong.

that's what i thought but the nucleus wasnt one of the structures labeled i thought it was out of the trna and the ribosome
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 12:39:55 pm
mmm to be honest the nucleus is still a structure in the cell...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 12:40:27 pm
solutions anyone ?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 12:40:49 pm
The PDF of the exam
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Kaylain on November 04, 2011, 12:41:08 pm
What about the dog question?? BbTt X BbTt or BbTt X bbtt?? both combinations could give rise to all the phenotypes :S
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 12:41:53 pm
I'm pretty sure RNA polymerase is what allows transcription to occur. So yes it would be in the nucleus. Correct me if I'm wrong.

that's what i thought but the nucleus wasnt one of the structures labeled i thought it was out of the trna and the ribosome
yeah true. the structure was the mRNA which was in the nucleus
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 12:42:55 pm
When Charmz uploads them all, I'll pdf it and edit it into his first post/OP and clean the duplicates up. Thanks for doing it, you're awesome :)
BTW I'm not a guy.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 12:43:58 pm
no it was a 1:1:1:1  phenotype and thus it had to be a heterozygous for both traits crossed with a homozygous recessive for both traitsto give that ratio
there for it was BbTt x bbtt
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: mrc93 on November 04, 2011, 12:45:54 pm
no it was a 1:1:1:1  phenotype and thus it had to be a heterozygous for both traits crossed with a homozygous recessive for both traitsto give that ratio
there for it was BbTt x bbtt

i dont think it said it was 1:1:1:1 anywhere
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Truck on November 04, 2011, 12:46:27 pm
no it was a 1:1:1:1  phenotype and thus it had to be a heterozygous for both traits crossed with a homozygous recessive for both traitsto give that ratio
there for it was BbTt x bbtt

They should give both because 4 samples isn't exactly an accurate sample size to be able to determine that!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: geo3. z on November 04, 2011, 12:48:17 pm
Yeah its definitely the nucleus. I checked my bio tectbook and Wikipedia

That was a real bitch of a question though. Got me flustered until I thought i couldve been a trick qusetion, making u think it wsa a listed structure
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: geo3. z on November 04, 2011, 12:49:22 pm
for that question did u say the 'T' trait was dominant or recessive
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 12:50:49 pm
... dude if its capital generally its dominant
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: geo3. z on November 04, 2011, 12:51:29 pm
it wasnt capital, u had to assign letters
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 12:52:43 pm
oh lol well generally the dominant one is captial
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 12:53:37 pm
any one know where to get answers from ?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: geo3. z on November 04, 2011, 12:54:24 pm
yeah, but they just gave you the name of the trait, not telling u if it was dominant or recessive
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: geo3. z on November 04, 2011, 12:55:13 pm
im sure a few weeks down the line someone will put up solutions that u can 'google'
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: BoredSatan on November 04, 2011, 12:56:21 pm
it wasnt capital, u had to assign letters

just had a look at the paper.. and no you had to assign letters in the PREVIOUS question

in the dog question they give you B/b and T/t so Band T are dominant.

that was quite a badly worded question but knowing VCAA they will probably only take the 1:1:1:1 because it DID only say the 4 puppies had these traits
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: geo3. z on November 04, 2011, 12:58:05 pm
what was the answer for the two methods of dating the really old hominid other than DNA?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: geo3. z on November 04, 2011, 01:00:07 pm
wasnt it the recessive homozygous dies
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: mrc93 on November 04, 2011, 01:00:54 pm
the ones with owls died
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 01:02:35 pm
lol yer only homozygous ressesive for the owls died ...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Kaylain on November 04, 2011, 01:02:40 pm
There was no indication whether it meant both homozygous dominant and homozygous recessive or only homozygous recessive :(
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: mrc93 on November 04, 2011, 01:02:57 pm
it did comparative anatomy which is relatedness and radiometric dating which is age
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Russ on November 04, 2011, 01:03:30 pm
BTW I'm not a guy.

I just use the male pronoun unless I know, don't mean anything by it
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: geo3. z on November 04, 2011, 01:03:59 pm
was OWLS dominant or recessive?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: impossible.is.nothing on November 04, 2011, 01:05:02 pm
m.. actually
ANOTHER FUCKING AMBIGOUS QUESTION
 - is OLWS THE GENE OR THE ALLELE

WTF?????

FUCKING VCAA FUCKING WORST PROOFREADING FUCKING QU ESTION 1 WTF

FUCKING FUCK EVIDENCE FOR HOMININ?


so true they are mentally retarded they even did spelling mistakes in the prompts for english lol -.-


WTF
THEY PHRASED IT LIKE RETARDS

TO YOU NEED TO DO AGE AND RELATEDNESS WITH EACH, OR ONE FOR EACH
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: geo3. z on November 04, 2011, 01:06:25 pm
i did comparative anatomy and i put carbon- 14 and potassium argon
i also said depending on how old hominin is
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Kaylain on November 04, 2011, 01:07:19 pm
Uhm I don't think protein analysis would have worked because we're the only hominins that still exist and I don't think we can get hold of extinct hominin proteins
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: mrc93 on November 04, 2011, 01:09:23 pm
i did comparative anatomy and i put carbon- 14 and potassium argon
i also said depending on how old hominin is

it said early hominin so prob older than 2mil years
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 01:10:30 pm
yer thats why the couldnt get any DNA from older homonin species to do DNA anaylisis so anything to do with protiens / DNA was wrong only like fossils, comparative anatomy and stuff like that could be stated
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 01:10:51 pm
it didn't matter if it was homozygous recessive or if it was homozygous dominant with the owls question because both would be the same if you drew up a punnet square but that question was a piece of shit!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 01:11:41 pm
was OWLS dominant or recessive?

It had to be recessive. Memebers affected by it were unable to come to term. Therefore, for the mother to be heterozygous it must be recessive.


For the hominin question I did one about radiometric dating of the strata where the fossil was found and one about comparative anatomy.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 01:12:33 pm
was OWLS dominant or recessive?

It had to be recessive. Memebers affected by it were unable to come to term. Therefore, for the mother to be heterozygous it must be recessive.

i agree it was ressesive
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: jane1234 on November 04, 2011, 01:13:42 pm
What did everyone get for Q18 of the MC?

I put A because it said M1 and M2 both produced equal amounts of whatever it was but I wasn't entirely sure...

And Bazza16, I completely agree with you. I'm so pissed off at VCAA as well... can they not think of harder questions WITHOUT making them so ambiguous? What did you put for question 1?

Oh and look up wikipedia for OLWS... it says it's both dominant and recessive... WTF?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 01:15:03 pm
was there a translocation in the chromosomes of the flies ? or was it that chromosomes 'fused' or will both translocation and chromosomal fusion be accepted
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: jane1234 on November 04, 2011, 01:16:25 pm
was there a translocation in the chromosomes of the flies ? or was it that chromosomes 'fused' or will both translocation and chromosomal fusion be accepted

I said translocation and then went on to explain that it was the chromosomes fusing together.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 01:17:20 pm
Q 1 i put c and Q 18 i put A
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: mrc93 on November 04, 2011, 01:17:46 pm
What did everyone get for Q18 of the MC?

I put A because it said M1 and M2 both produced equal amounts of whatever it was but I wasn't entirely sure...

And Bazza16, I completely agree with you. I'm so pissed off at VCAA as well... can they not think of harder questions WITHOUT making them so ambiguous? What did you put for question 1?

Oh and look up wikipedia for OLWS... it says it's both dominant and recessive... WTF?

it was B because each M1 and M2 produced equal amounts so when they were together it was double than when they were homozygous
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 01:18:14 pm
What did everyone get for Q18 of the MC?

I put A because it said M1 and M2 both produced equal amounts of whatever it was but I wasn't entirely sure...

And Bazza16, I completely agree with you. I'm so pissed off at VCAA as well... can they not think of harder questions WITHOUT making them so ambiguous? What did you put for question 1?

Oh and look up wikipedia for OLWS... it says it's both dominant and recessive... WTF?
It would totally suck if it was both dominant and recessive. Can't think of many people who'd get it right if it was.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Kaylain on November 04, 2011, 01:18:36 pm
Oh and look up wikipedia for OLWS... it says it's both dominant and recessive... WTF?

Does that mean only heterozygotes survive? Huhh?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 01:18:55 pm
pretty shore each allele produced the same amount
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 01:19:24 pm
Oh and look up wikipedia for OLWS... it says it's both dominant and recessive... WTF?

Does that mean only heterozygotes survive? Huhh?


omg really wow stupid VCAA
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: jane1234 on November 04, 2011, 01:20:53 pm
What did everyone get for Q18 of the MC?

I put A because it said M1 and M2 both produced equal amounts of whatever it was but I wasn't entirely sure...

And Bazza16, I completely agree with you. I'm so pissed off at VCAA as well... can they not think of harder questions WITHOUT making them so ambiguous? What did you put for question 1?

Oh and look up wikipedia for OLWS... it says it's both dominant and recessive... WTF?

it was B because each M1 and M2 produced equal amounts so when they were together it was double than when they were homozygous

But if you had two copies of the allele then you should produce double the amount? So M1M1 = M1M2 because M1=M2... I think :-\
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 01:21:26 pm
please we need suggested answers ! -.- preferably by a person who got 50 last year lol
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 01:22:13 pm
What did everyone get for Q18 of the MC?

I put A because it said M1 and M2 both produced equal amounts of whatever it was but I wasn't entirely sure...

And Bazza16, I completely agree with you. I'm so pissed off at VCAA as well... can they not think of harder questions WITHOUT making them so ambiguous? What did you put for question 1?

Oh and look up wikipedia for OLWS... it says it's both dominant and recessive... WTF?

it was B because each M1 and M2 produced equal amounts so when they were together it was double than when they were homozygous

But if you had two copies of the allele then you should produce double the amount? So M1M1 = M1M2 because M1=M2... I think :-\
i agree
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 01:23:08 pm
Omg self incompatibility how exciting.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: jane1234 on November 04, 2011, 01:24:11 pm
hopefully 25 MC 44-45 SA and i can squeeze in for a 50 :\

Haha with a 70 on the midyear I'm sure you'll be able to do it...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Greatness on November 04, 2011, 01:25:08 pm
Lol at VCAA they fail so bad, there was a script error in chem mid year and spelt the name of a character wrong on the question of my text yesterday....
Don't get too bogged down by those ambiguous quesitons, if you guys found it hard then most of the state will so it may work out in the end!
Stop stressing and start studying for your other exams if you have them, otherwise just chill :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: impossible.is.nothing on November 04, 2011, 01:25:58 pm
QUESTIONS 16,  17, 19, 20, 23 AND 24 ON THE MC WHAT DID YOU'S PUT?
im soo doomed.. worst exam ever !!! last years was so much easier!  :o
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: nubs on November 04, 2011, 01:27:21 pm
Oh and look up wikipedia for OLWS... it says it's both dominant and recessive... WTF?

Does that mean only heterozygotes survive? Huhh?


Well the question said homozygous for OLWS, and there is only 1 out of 4 combinations that is homozygous for OLWS, so it wouldn't matter if it was dominant or recessive
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 01:27:44 pm
Maybe I should do biol again next year since i don't have a 5th subject and I did so crap on this exam!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 01:29:11 pm
Oh and look up wikipedia for OLWS... it says it's both dominant and recessive... WTF?

Does that mean only heterozygotes survive? Huhh?


Well the question said homozygous for OLWS, and there is only 1 out of 4 combinations that is homozygous for OLWS, so it wouldn't matter if it was dominant or recessive
It is actually 1/2 chance the foal will die because it's both dominant and recessive!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: lilmamba17 on November 04, 2011, 01:29:37 pm
stem cell mcq was C - can be extracted from 2-4 cell embryo right?

also that question on olws was terrible, lol they are gonna have fun trying to set the marking scheme
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: jane1234 on November 04, 2011, 01:30:23 pm
what a ridiculous exam

, maybe they should just have left all the questions blank - wouldn't be any more ambiguous for some of the questions

Did you call/email VCAA?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: nubs on November 04, 2011, 01:30:49 pm
IF OWLS IS A GENE - IT IS 1/2

IF OWLS IS AN ALLELE - IT IS 1/4

FUCKING

FUCKING


DOES NOT INDICATE THOSE PIECE OF SHIT

What? OLWS couldn't have been a gene... it was a condition/disease.. and it wouldn't have mattered if the condition was recessive or dominant, cause you would have gotten the same outcome answer
unless im missing something pretty big..
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 01:31:16 pm
Maybe I should do biol again next year since i don't have a 5th subject and I did so crap on this exam!

Don't redo subs.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: jane1234 on November 04, 2011, 01:31:50 pm
stem cell mcq was C - can be extracted from 2-4 cell embryo right?

also that question on olws was terrible, lol they are gonna have fun trying to set the marking scheme

Think so. Wouldn't have been D because it said stem cells only differentiate into a LIMITED number of cell types...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 01:32:28 pm
IF OWLS IS A GENE - IT IS 1/2

IF OWLS IS AN ALLELE - IT IS 1/4

FUCKING

FUCKING


DOES NOT INDICATE THOSE PIECE OF SHIT

What? OLWS couldn't have been a gene... it was a condition/disease.. and it wouldn't have mattered if the condition was recessive or dominant, cause you would have gotten the same outcome answer
unless im missing something pretty big..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_white_syndrome#Homozygotes
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 01:33:25 pm
Maybe I should do biol again next year since i don't have a 5th subject and I did so crap on this exam!

Don't redo subs.

why not?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 01:37:10 pm
Maybe I should do biol again next year since i don't have a 5th subject and I did so crap on this exam!

Don't redo subs.

why not?

Because it's often just a waste of time - anyone I know who has repeated has gotten a very similar score, unless you need the subject to be >a certain raw for whatever reason it's best to just take something else?  Look at my Year 11 sub...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 01:37:25 pm
The gene that controls OWLS was made up of two alleles;

O - does not have OWLS
o - has OWLS

For the purpose of this bio exam and with the information given, this was the most valid assumption

Quote
"Lethal white syndrome can be described as recessive because heterozygotes (written Oo or N/O) are not affected by intestinal agangliosis"

It must be an allele because it says she is heterozygous for that condition

If she is heterozygous and alive, it means she is an unaffected carrier. Therefore, the probabilty of a foal not coming to term is 1/4

The second part of this question is therefore, 9/16 as when a suitable di-hybrid cross is drawn, it is shown that 9/16 foal will be phenotypically normal (hence the massive space they gave us)

Or alternitvely; Pr(not affected by HERDS) = 3/4
Pr(not affected by OWLS) = 3/4
Pr (not affected by HERDS n not affected by OWLS) = Pr(not affected by HERDS) x Pr(not affected by OWLS)
= 3/4 x 3/4
= 9/16
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 01:40:32 pm
Maybe I should do biol again next year since i don't have a 5th subject and I did so crap on this exam!

Don't redo subs.

why not?

Because it's often just a waste of time - anyone I know who has repeated has gotten a very similar score, unless you need the subject to be >a certain raw for whatever reason it's best to just take something else?  Look at my Year 11 sub...
Thanks that makes me feel heaps better :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 01:41:58 pm
when you say it like that... it sounds convincing... but ...

Let me put this to you another way.  It has to be a recessive lethal, with the genotype oo resulting in the lethality and not OO because that would mean every horse birth would have a mortality rate of 50% (if you're suggesting only an Oo horse could survive, only Oo x Oo would mate and therefore 50% would either be oo or OO).  Clearly we don't observe this in every day life.

Secondly, thinking of this in terms of gene product it's not really plausible that only the heterozygote would survive.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 01:42:10 pm
The gene that controls OWLS was made up of two alleles;

O - does not have OWLS
o - has OWLS

For the purpose of this bio exam and with the information given, this was the most valid assumption

Quote
"Lethal white syndrome can be described as recessive because heterozygotes (written Oo or N/O) are not affected by intestinal agangliosis"

It must be an allele because it says she is heterozygous for that condition

If she is heterozygous and alive, it means she is an unaffected carrier. Therefore, the probabilty of a foal not coming to term is 1/4

The second part of this question is therefore, 9/16 as when a suitable di-hybrid cross is drawn, it is shown that 9/16 foal will be phenotypically normal (hence the massive space they gave us)

Or alternitvely; Pr(not affected by HERDS) = 3/4
Pr(not affected by OWLS) = 3/4
Pr (not affected by HERDS n not affected by OWLS) = Pr(not affected by HERDS) x Pr(not affected by OWLS)
= 3/4 x 3/4
= 9/16
As much as I want you to be right because I wrote the same thing, it's not correct. :(
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 01:42:25 pm
Maybe I should do biol again next year since i don't have a 5th subject and I did so crap on this exam!

Don't redo subs.

why not?

Because it's often just a waste of time - anyone I know who has repeated has gotten a very similar score, unless you need the subject to be >a certain raw for whatever reason it's best to just take something else?  Look at my Year 11 sub...
Thanks that makes me feel heaps better :)

Np, that's why I leave such an embarrassing score in my sig :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: lilmamba17 on November 04, 2011, 01:44:08 pm


Think so. Wouldn't have been D because it said stem cells only differentiate into a LIMITED number of cell types...
[/quote]

Yeah and in jacaranda says the totipotent can be extracted from 2-4-8 cell embryos
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 01:45:56 pm
The gene that controls OWLS was made up of two alleles;

O - does not have OWLS
o - has OWLS

For the purpose of this bio exam and with the information given, this was the most valid assumption

Quote
"Lethal white syndrome can be described as recessive because heterozygotes (written Oo or N/O) are not affected by intestinal agangliosis"

It must be an allele because it says she is heterozygous for that condition

If she is heterozygous and alive, it means she is an unaffected carrier. Therefore, the probabilty of a foal not coming to term is 1/4

The second part of this question is therefore, 9/16 as when a suitable di-hybrid cross is drawn, it is shown that 9/16 foal will be phenotypically normal (hence the massive space they gave us)

Or alternitvely; Pr(not affected by HERDS) = 3/4
Pr(not affected by OWLS) = 3/4
Pr (not affected by HERDS n not affected by OWLS) = Pr(not affected by HERDS) x Pr(not affected by OWLS)
= 3/4 x 3/4
= 9/16
As much as I want you to be right because I wrote the same thing, it's not correct. :(

Lol what? What was the answer then?

Also, pretty sure the answer was C because totipotent stem cells can differentiate into any cell.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 01:46:58 pm
when you say it like that... it sounds convincing... but ...

Let me put this to you another way.  It has to be a recessive lethal, with the genotype oo resulting in the lethality and not OO because that would mean every horse birth would have a mortality rate of 50% (if you're suggesting only an Oo horse could survive, only Oo x Oo would mate and therefore 50% would either be oo or OO).  Clearly we don't observe this in every day life.

Secondly, thinking of this in terms of gene product it's not really plausible that only the heterozygote would survive.
According to wikipedia, all homozygous, recessive or dominant, die.

'Lethal white syndrome has been described by researchers as both dominantly-inherited and recessively inherited. Lethal white syndrome can be described as recessive because heterozygotes (written Oo or N/O) are not affected by intestinal agangliosis. The term "carrier", by definition, applies only to recessive conditions. However, if the frame pattern trait is included in the lethal white syndrome, inheritance of the trait follows an incomplete dominant pattern. It should be noted that the concept of "recessive" and "dominant" predate molecular biology and technically apply only to traits, not to genes themselves. In pleiotropic conditions, such as lethal white syndrome, the application of "recessive" or "dominant" can be ambiguous.'

Plus the question does not state whether it is dominant or recessive. You'd think it would be stated but after re-reading the question, there is not doubt that it is both dominant and recessive which die.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: WhoTookMyUsername on November 04, 2011, 01:47:38 pm
yeah was C, that was a tough one though, 3 of them at first glance seemed right


i think it should be 50%
and 1/2 x 3/4 = 3/8

after exam went and bought literally $20 of chips from coles ... WHY!!!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Charmz on November 04, 2011, 01:47:49 pm
The gene that controls OWLS was made up of two alleles;

O - does not have OWLS
o - has OWLS

For the purpose of this bio exam and with the information given, this was the most valid assumption

Quote
"Lethal white syndrome can be described as recessive because heterozygotes (written Oo or N/O) are not affected by intestinal agangliosis"

It must be an allele because it says she is heterozygous for that condition

If she is heterozygous and alive, it means she is an unaffected carrier. Therefore, the probabilty of a foal not coming to term is 1/4

The second part of this question is therefore, 9/16 as when a suitable di-hybrid cross is drawn, it is shown that 9/16 foal will be phenotypically normal (hence the massive space they gave us)

Or alternitvely; Pr(not affected by HERDS) = 3/4
Pr(not affected by OWLS) = 3/4
Pr (not affected by HERDS n not affected by OWLS) = Pr(not affected by HERDS) x Pr(not affected by OWLS)
= 3/4 x 3/4
= 9/16
As much as I want you to be right because I wrote the same thing, it's not correct. :(

Lol what? What was the answer then?

Also, pretty sure the answer was C because totipotent stem cells can differentiate into any cell.
The key word was limited not any so that option was incorrect.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: lilmamba17 on November 04, 2011, 01:49:53 pm
Yep C that's what i was saying.

And I agree ^ I was so stressed, my answer reflected that both die but then underneath I wrote The question did not specify what the trait is or that if they possessed the A allele it would allow for survival and just chucked in the probability for only the recessive surviving.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: lilmamba17 on November 04, 2011, 01:50:30 pm
yeah was C, that was a tough one though, 3 of them at first glance seemed right


i think it should be 50%
and 1/2 x 3/4 = 3/8

after exam went and bought literally $20 of chips from coles ... WHY!!!

Yeah I got that as well. Lets just hope...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 01:55:03 pm
mavis got a 50 so hopefully she's right !!! XD

Lol don't quote me on shiz.  But, I really truly believe that you guys are misinterpreting that paragraph.  It's because it's a sydnrome, it might be saying heterozygotes are somewhat affected by some things (ie frame whatever pattern) but that doesn't mean they will die (this is clearly given to you by the VCAA because they say Penny is a heterozygote).  Plus, other resources say it is an autosomal recessive pattern.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 01:55:53 pm
If it is dominant, it is co-dominant. Since this is not mentioned anywhere in the question, it is assumed that for the purpose of this question it is recessive.

In reality, having one allele causes the bones to be more frail, but does not cause OWLS which is what the question asked.

I'll attach a scan soon.

EDIT:

Scan attached of di-hybrid cross/proof
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: nubs on November 04, 2011, 01:57:25 pm
The gene that controls OWLS was made up of two alleles;

O - does not have OWLS
o - has OWLS

For the purpose of this bio exam and with the information given, this was the most valid assumption

Quote
"Lethal white syndrome can be described as recessive because heterozygotes (written Oo or N/O) are not affected by intestinal agangliosis"

It must be an allele because it says she is heterozygous for that condition

If she is heterozygous and alive, it means she is an unaffected carrier. Therefore, the probabilty of a foal not coming to term is 1/4

The second part of this question is therefore, 9/16 as when a suitable di-hybrid cross is drawn, it is shown that 9/16 foal will be phenotypically normal (hence the massive space they gave us)

Or alternitvely; Pr(not affected by HERDS) = 3/4
Pr(not affected by OWLS) = 3/4
Pr (not affected by HERDS n not affected by OWLS) = Pr(not affected by HERDS) x Pr(not affected by OWLS)
= 3/4 x 3/4
= 9/16


That's exactly what I and many others in my class did
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: lilmamba17 on November 04, 2011, 01:58:39 pm
lol, not sure you can hedge your bets like that UNLESS they end up accepting both answers cos it's an ambiguous question

Nah definitely didnt hedge my bets after what happened chem unit 3, i put it in the working space area in brackets
Just so they know how stupid the question was.

They will probably have to accept both.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 02:00:12 pm
Okay shit I understand now.
This is what it is saying.

Let us consider LETHALITY one phenotypic 'trait' and a special overo-colouring another trait.
With the genotype oo, lethality results.
With the genotype Oo, overo-colouring results
With the genotype OO, normal phenotype results.
We can see that the pattern of inheritance almost looks incomplete if we look at overo-colouring as the trait at hand, but we are merely considering the lethality.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 02:00:59 pm
Okay shit I understand now.
This is what it is saying.

Let us consider LETHALITY one phenotypic 'trait' and a special overo-colouring another trait.
With the genotype oo, lethality results.
With the genotype Oo, overo-colouring results
With the genotype OO, normal phenotype results.
We can see that the pattern of inheritance almost looks incomplete if we look at overo-colouring as the trait at hand, but we are merely considering the lethality.

Yes, you've got it :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Russ on November 04, 2011, 02:01:44 pm
I haven't looked at the exam properly because I'm up to my ears in lab writeups but the VCAA very often simplify things for your course, so don't go looking at wiki and applying that to the exam paper because it's entirely possible they're not the same.

Perfect example is the stem cell question you were talking about, without proper clarification in the question, D is technically correct
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 02:02:59 pm
Yes and that's what the wikipedia article is saying, which is why after you guys were like 'No it says they both die' I spent like ten minutes being like 'have I lost my ability to comprehend English explanation?' because I didn't see the passage as saying that at all.
It's saying that because the gene is pleiotropic, depending on which phenotypic trait you want to consider the pattern of inheritance can appear differently (which again reminds us that genes are not recessive/dominant, phenotypic traits are).
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 02:04:09 pm
I haven't looked at the exam properly because I'm up to my ears in lab writeups but the VCAA very often simplify things for your course, so don't go looking at wiki and applying that to the exam paper because it's entirely possible they're not the same.

It makes me want to cry.

Anyway Russ has reminded me I HAVE TWO MAJOR EXAMS NEXT WEEK, INCLUDING MY OWN BIOLOGY EXAM, so now that we have cleared this up I am going to go and die doing my own revision in a second.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: stonecold on November 04, 2011, 02:05:17 pm
Typical VCAA screw up on that question about OWLS.  It is clearly ambiguous.  At uni if you do bio, you will learn about different types lethal genotypes.

As long as you said one of either oo or OO dies, you will be fine.  If you said they both die, then you're going to lose marks.

And from quickly flicking through it, it looked like a pretty shit exam...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 02:05:38 pm
Good luck mavis, sounds shocking tbh.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 02:06:21 pm
However, I introduce another ambiguity into your problem - the question asks about horses dying at birth.  HERDA has reduced life expectancy but only OLWS says 'dies at birth'.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 02:06:43 pm
NO PUNNETT NEEDED FOR 1 MARK AMIRITE?

Yep, this is how I have always marked...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 02:07:36 pm
Typical VCAA screw up on that question about OWLS.  It is clearly ambiguous.  At uni if you do bio, you will learn about different types lethal genotypes.

As long as you said one of either oo or OO dies, you will be fine.  If you said they both die, then you're going to lose marks.

And from quickly flicking through it, it looked like a pretty shit exam...

Hey I wanted to ask you, do you have the prac exam for Genes and Environmental?  Is it the same as Genetics and Evol because if not I suggest a swift swap?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Russ on November 04, 2011, 02:07:41 pm
However, I introduce another ambiguity into your problem - the question asks about horses dying at birth.  HERDA has reduced life expectancy but only OLWS says 'dies at birth'.

I applaud this level of trolling the VCE students
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 02:10:20 pm
yes but in the previous question they imply that OLWS is not considered "lethal"

Previous question?  You mean HERDA not considered lethal?  That's what I'd say too, but it's still confusing.
So then you have the issue of them asking you which horses die solely of OLWS and which are phenotypically normal at both loci.  What controversy.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Russ on November 04, 2011, 02:13:30 pm
Lethal is dies prior to birth or is stillborn, it does not have to die at the embryonic stage, it can die at the foetal stage and still be carried to term.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 02:15:02 pm
Russ, Gleeson considers lethality to just be 'causes the death of organism' and hence says Huntington's is a recessive lethal...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Truck on November 04, 2011, 02:15:25 pm
This question stumped me sooooo hard. Grrrrrrrrrrr. I had the exact same problem doing it but I did what Panicmode did, hope I get some marks for it.

For the evidence for early hominin evolution thing, would Index Fossils / Trace Fossils be two ways? Haha not sure if I'll get any marks for that :/.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 02:16:41 pm
in WIKI oo is carried to term and die after a while

In question, oo dies at birth not after a while...
Argh I'm not denying you're using OLWS!  I'm saying some people might try to use HERDA in a dihybrid, ie, anyone homozygous recessive for either or both genes would die at birth but this is not the case because HERDA isn't a lethal in that sense.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Drunk on November 04, 2011, 02:17:09 pm
there are no words for this exam
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 02:20:29 pm
I did one age, one relatedness.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Truck on November 04, 2011, 02:22:18 pm
probably not :( (maybe 1 depending on how intepret question)
 
you might get 1 for that
i didn't mention dating techniques really - as this can't determine relatedness?

Hmmm... yeah, well the way I read it, "Outline two types of evidence, other than DNA analysis, that can be used to determine the relatedness and age of early hominins"... Index Fossils can help determine the age, and I didn't think of comparative structures so also wrote Trace Fossils, I think that might be worth 1 out of 2 marks (my explanations were of how they related to age). But from looking through the SA I think this is the only bit I really fucked up, this question and 2 Multiple Choice Q's (funnily enough I fucked up the first MC question hahahahahaha, must be part of the 5% who got it wrong :P).

What did you write for the why can't we use DNA Analysis on early hominins Q?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 02:24:32 pm
probably not :( (maybe 1 depending on how intepret question)
 
you might get 1 for that
i didn't mention dating techniques really - as this can't determine relatedness?

Hmmm... yeah, well the way I read it, "Outline two types of evidence, other than DNA analysis, that can be used to determine the relatedness and age of early hominins"... Index Fossils can help determine the age, and I didn't think of comparative structures so also wrote Trace Fossils, I think that might be worth 1 out of 2 marks (my explanations were of how they related to age). But from looking through the SA I think this is the only bit I really fucked up, this question and 2 Multiple Choice Q's (funnily enough I fucked up the first MC question hahahahahaha, must be part of the 5% who got it wrong :P).

What did you write for the why can't we use DNA Analysis on early hominins Q?

No available samples as DNA had decomposed/degraded
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 02:25:40 pm
1a?


I'm just going to let you know that 1a is actually the crappiest thing I have ever seen in my life, how mean.

Oh my god this discussion is so much more interesting than phonemic awareness, can't tear myself away.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Truck on November 04, 2011, 02:27:05 pm
probably not :( (maybe 1 depending on how intepret question)
 
you might get 1 for that
i didn't mention dating techniques really - as this can't determine relatedness?

Hmmm... yeah, well the way I read it, "Outline two types of evidence, other than DNA analysis, that can be used to determine the relatedness and age of early hominins"... Index Fossils can help determine the age, and I didn't think of comparative structures so also wrote Trace Fossils, I think that might be worth 1 out of 2 marks (my explanations were of how they related to age). But from looking through the SA I think this is the only bit I really fucked up, this question and 2 Multiple Choice Q's (funnily enough I fucked up the first MC question hahahahahaha, must be part of the 5% who got it wrong :P).

What did you write for the why can't we use DNA Analysis on early hominins Q?

No available samples as DNA had decomposed/degraded

THAAANK GOD!

I was sitting in the exam (as I had left that question till last) thinking "Fuck, Fuck can this be as simple as it's just degraded? Surely not? Fuck fuck fuck" and then last 5 minutes I was like can't think of anything else, just gonna write this down! So relieved!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 02:28:43 pm
is it possible not all proteins were fully decomposed?

Probably not of early hominins... :S We are talking 1 million years.

Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Drunk on November 04, 2011, 02:29:23 pm
multiple choice was pretty tricky this year
and here I was hoping to get 25/25 haha..
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 02:30:46 pm
I thought it was easier this year tbh. The only question I found ambiguous was question 18. Wasn't sure if a or b :S
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Drunk on November 04, 2011, 02:33:59 pm
mm debatable
hope the suggested answers for mc come up soon and put me out of my misery haha
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: stonecold on November 04, 2011, 02:34:29 pm
What is the answer to question 1a) exactly??  :/
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 02:35:09 pm
Soz guys I will actually fail uni if I put up any suggested answers.  GOOD LUCK WITH EVERYTHING ELSE, I AM CLOSING THE THREAD NOW D':
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 02:41:28 pm
What is the answer to question 1a) exactly??  :/

either structure M or nucleus....

Question 20 is A.

When you say M or nucleus do you mean both are acceptable or you don't know the answer?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: stonecold on November 04, 2011, 02:43:47 pm
How is RNAPol in ribosomes?  Unless I am missing something...

rRNA is in ribosomes, not RNAPol ...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 02:45:15 pm
How is RNAPol in ribosomes?  Unless I am missing something...

rRNA is in ribosomes, not RNAPol ...

Yes, but as it is a protein it is synthesised in the ribosomes.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: lexitu on November 04, 2011, 02:45:30 pm
Thank you so much to Charmz for putting up the exam! We are working on suggested solutions.

And yes, question 1a is a complete joke - I do hope the assessors (which are independent of the writers to my knowledge) take this into consideration.

Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: manniet on November 04, 2011, 02:47:22 pm
I mean it depends on how you intepret the question, if you intepret it is as "which (of structure M or P)" contains RNA polymerase, its structure M (as RNA P is a protein)

if you intepret as "which structure, anywhere in cell, RNA polymerase" it's nucleus

If they knew they were going to write 'structure' about a thousand times more in the following questions. Why didn't they just write something like "Which part of the Cell is it located" instead of using that word to trick silly people like me :\
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: stonecold on November 04, 2011, 02:49:48 pm
If they were trying to ask 'where is RNA polymerase produced', then I don't understand why they just couldn't ask it.  RNA polymerase is produced at the ribosomes yes, but found at it??  I'd say technically incorrect, because it makes it sound like it is a structural component of ribosomes.  Utterly stupid question.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: nubs on November 04, 2011, 02:50:46 pm
How is RNAPol in ribosomes?  Unless I am missing something...

rRNA is in ribosomes, not RNAPol ...

Yes, but as it is a protein it is synthesised in the ribosomes.

But that type of knowledge is only necessary for unit 3...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: lexitu on November 04, 2011, 02:56:59 pm
^ Yeah, and if they really wanted to ask you if it was P or M then they could have just had a check box for either answer.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: nickysclone on November 04, 2011, 02:57:23 pm
I thought it was DNA from the bones or some shit apart from mitochondrial DNA O_o!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 02:58:17 pm
answers anyone ?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: lexitu on November 04, 2011, 03:00:09 pm
Thank you so much to Charmz for putting up the exam! We are working on suggested solutions.

Just give us a bit of time to write the answers :) We want to make sure we do a good job on them - they will be available later tonight!

And please, to year 12s with other exams, I know many of you can't resist it but you'll do yourselves a favour to either relax or study for your other exams now! :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: liuetenant on November 04, 2011, 03:00:35 pm
What did everyone get for Q18 of the MC?

I put A because it said M1 and M2 both produced equal amounts of whatever it was but I wasn't entirely sure...

And Bazza16, I completely agree with you. I'm so pissed off at VCAA as well... can they not think of harder questions WITHOUT making them so ambiguous? What did you put for question 1?

Q.18? yep, i put A too...only because it specified "equal amounts." originally put donw B!!! but then changed it at the last minute :O

Oh and look up wikipedia for OLWS... it says it's both dominant and recessive... WTF?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 03:01:37 pm
thanx :).... VCAA  u suck ! :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: REBORN on November 04, 2011, 03:02:54 pm
I'm shit scared for my Psych exam now. I get stressed over ambiguous questions :/

feel for you Bazza <3
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: nickysclone on November 04, 2011, 03:04:35 pm
I thought it was DNA from the bones or some shit apart from mitochondrial DNA O_o!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: iggleba on November 04, 2011, 03:24:51 pm
ah, all my answers are different...good bye grades i'll miss you *depression depression*
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 03:33:47 pm
Here's my answers for MC. If anyone got different then please tell me.

NB: These are not the official VCAA answers, this is what I got for multi-choice.

1. C
2. D
3. B
4. D
5. C
6. B
7. C
8. D
9. A
10. B
11. C
12. D
13. C
14. C
15. A
16. B
17. A
18. A/B (I picked A but I wasn't sure)
19. C
20. A
21. B
22. D
23. C
24. B
25. B

Quote from: Bazza16
on another note -> no nat select / spec in SA???

spent so long perfecting these

Question 4 d) was kinda natural selection/ speciation question.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 03:39:24 pm
2 - it's not C it's D plasmids + prok no histone


LOL! True :) I'd written the correct answer on the exam I'm sure, and even on the sheet in front of me looking at the pdf. I just wrote the answer for question 1 twice x_x
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 03:41:51 pm
This is what i had then:

1. C
2. D
3. B
4. D
5. C
6. B
7. C
8. D
9. A
10. B
11. C
12. D
13. C
14. C
15. A
16. B
17. A
18. A
19. C
20. A
21. B
22. D
23. C
24. B
25. B

I've seen nothing so far to indicate i got an MC wrong... as for SA :'(
We has the same answers  ;D
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Ric on November 04, 2011, 03:45:58 pm
Easy exam, confident with 65+/75. RNA Polymerase question was terrible, poorly written much. :o
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 03:46:53 pm
yeah just tidied up 2 :P

Well, on the exam we got the same answers, that's all that counts = D.

I really feel I aced this bio exam.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 03:49:22 pm
Quote from: Bazza16
Do you guys reckon (espec last year's year 12's)
that a

70, 68-9 and High A+ SACs after scaling will net a 50?

Maybe not a fifty, but pretty close to it. You're looking at a fairly high SS.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: REBORN on November 04, 2011, 03:50:05 pm
The domain for Bazza's SS is [49,50]
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Drunk on November 04, 2011, 03:54:02 pm
there's essentially no difference between a 48 and a 50 mate, you'll get an amazing score don't get so worked up about it
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Callum on November 04, 2011, 03:55:23 pm
This is what i had then:

1. C
2. D
3. B
4. D
5. C
6. B
7. C
8. D
9. A
10. B
11. C
12. D
13. C
14. C
15. A
16. B
17. A
18. A
19. C
20. A
21. B
22. D
23. C
24. B
25. B

This just made me feel a lot better with nearly all my answers being the same aswell.

Maybe next year they should get someone that has actually completed VCE to write the exams...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 03:59:37 pm
there's essentially no difference between a 48 and a 50 mate, you'll get an amazing score don't get so worked up about it

:\
i've invested basically all of my time into Bio this year largely neglecting 1/2s
diff between 48 and 50 in my top 4 is 2 aggregate, could be difference of getting into course i want :'(

Actually, it's only 1.6 (due to scaling). I seriously doubt 1.6 aggregate points is going to prevent you from getting into the university course you want.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 04:04:37 pm
Maybe it's my ego more than anything that takes a hit. I was quite set on getting a 50 and people expected me to get a 50...

:'(

oh well

You ranked no.1 in your school at biology? Hey, don't worry about it. Seriously. You've tried your best and that's all that counts. The lesson to be learnt from all this is that VCAA are fucking retarded   ;)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: REBORN on November 04, 2011, 04:05:57 pm
I can't help but point out 2 aggregates is gigantic. Stonecold missed Med by 0.03 or something. But Bazza you'll get 49. I'm confident.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Truck on November 04, 2011, 04:10:07 pm
69 average on the exams is good enough to get a 50.... + high A+ for SAC's, you're fine rofl.

And unless you're trying to get into like, med, you can get into just about any course with a 95...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Danielhogz on November 04, 2011, 04:22:13 pm
hey whats the highest i can get with highest A for semester 1 and high A+ SACS
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: gen.mayu on November 04, 2011, 04:44:43 pm
Fucking fuckidy fuck fuck.

That exam was a worthless rag. The RNA polymerase question was just mean. Piece of utter crap.

I'm really desperate here for marks, because I know I've at least lost 6, maybe 7. :'(

For the puppy question, where we had to list the parents genotypes, I was really idiotic and wrote for the mother: BbTt, and also for the father: BbTt. Because it's a really small sample size (only 4 puppies) do you think they will accept two heterozygotes rather than BbTt and bbtt?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: footy on November 04, 2011, 04:55:02 pm
Fucking fuckidy fuck fuck.

That exam was a worthless rag. The RNA polymerase question was just mean. Piece of utter crap.

I'm really desperate here for marks, because I know I've at least lost 6, maybe 7. :'(

For the puppy question, where we had to list the parents genotypes, I was really idiotic and wrote for the mother: BbTt, and also for the father: BbTt. Because it's a really small sample size (only 4 puppies) do you think they will accept two heterozygotes rather than BbTt and bbtt?

I did the same as you for the puppy question. I don't see why they wouldn't accept as those parents could realistically produce those offspring
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 04:56:27 pm
FML i got different answers on 15 , 17 and 20 on MC  :(  i hope A+ cut off is at 60 like mid year ... then i might have a chance
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Laecs on November 04, 2011, 04:56:57 pm
i too had the same answer as you, i think realistically they should accept that answer as it is a small sample size, so in my eyes either are viable.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: gen.mayu on November 04, 2011, 05:00:01 pm
Coming out of the exam I felt alright, but looking over this I don't feel particularly at ease. :(

Even if a lot of people found it easy, there appears to be a lot of marks lost in VCAAs retarded wording, so the A+ cutoff might only be 60 or so like the mid-year. :\

Thanks footy and Laecs, btw. :) Make me feel better haha.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: paulsterio on November 04, 2011, 05:05:05 pm
there's essentially no difference between a 48 and a 50 mate, you'll get an amazing score don't get so worked up about it

:\
i've invested basically all of my time into Bio this year largely neglecting 1/2s
diff between 48 and 50 in my top 4 is 2 aggregate, could be difference of getting into course i want :'(

Actually, it's only 1.6 (due to scaling). I seriously doubt 1.6 aggregate points is going to prevent you from getting into the university course you want.

Yeah, and remember, that's only 1 of 4 subjects, you have 3 more left next year to make up for those 1.6 aggregate points, don't stress out too much, just remember that you still have opportunities left! you're in year 11! :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: HERculina on November 04, 2011, 05:07:51 pm
I think this years exam was okay. i bit tricky in some places though
with the stem cell multiple choice question, can option D be right cause multipotent stem cells don't just divide into anything (i think?) and with the OWL questions i got 1/2 and 3/8 (surviving and not having HERDA) but i thought that only heterozygous would survive.
For the question why shouldn't you look at DNA in blabla early hominins, i said cause DNA denatures at high temperatures, especially over time in the fossils? will i get a mark wat was the answer
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 04, 2011, 05:09:52 pm
So, how did everyone go? Did anyone else think that the first short-answer question was terribly ambiguous? It didn't specify whether to: a) Chose between structures M & P, or b) Chose 'A' structure located within the cell (Which really should be called organelles, not structures if that were the case).

Also, for question 5a) (SA) - Was it Germline cells?, and 5b) (Not sure about this one) - X-Linked recessive? :/
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: gen.mayu on November 04, 2011, 05:17:53 pm
5a) had to be germline cells for the HERDA to be inherited
And 5b) was autosomal recessive, because if it was X-linked recessive, then II: 1's father (1: 2) would have had to have HERDA for it to be X-linked.

I thought it was okay overall - but it was not very well written by VCAA, and I just know I've dropped some marks from stupid mistakes here and there :\
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Keo on November 04, 2011, 06:03:20 pm
I am outraged!
5a) had to be germline cells for the HERDA to be inherited
And 5b) was autosomal recessive, because if it was X-linked recessive, then II: 1's father (1: 2) would have had to have HERDA for it to be X-linked.

I thought it was okay overall - but it was not very well written by VCAA, and I just know I've dropped some marks from stupid mistakes here and there :\

I also got autosomal recessive :o
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: bah-humbug on November 04, 2011, 06:15:45 pm
yer according to notes, stem cells are multipotent and can only give rise to certain cell times so answer D?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: natrox14 on November 04, 2011, 06:16:20 pm
69 average on the exams is good enough to get a 50.... + high A+ for SAC's, you're fine rofl.

And unless you're trying to get into like, med, you can get into just about any course with a 95...


how does this work , how can you get a really high mark with 69 average?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 06:17:36 pm
69 average on the exams is good enough to get a 50.... + high A+ for SAC's, you're fine rofl.

And unless you're trying to get into like, med, you can get into just about any course with a 95...


how does this work , how can you get a really high mark with 69 average?

That's a 69/75 average. Not 69% lol -_-
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: natrox14 on November 04, 2011, 06:19:34 pm
yea but still wouldnt you have to get As on everything to get an A, how does scaling work for this?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 06:23:30 pm
I am outraged!
5a) had to be germline cells for the HERDA to be inherited
And 5b) was autosomal recessive, because if it was X-linked recessive, then II: 1's father (1: 2) would have had to have HERDA for it to be X-linked.

I thought it was okay overall - but it was not very well written by VCAA, and I just know I've dropped some marks from stupid mistakes here and there :\

I also got autosomal recessive :o
You're correct.

It can't be dominant as it is inherited from two unaffected parents.

It cannot be X-linked because if it was, individual I-2 would have to be affected in order to pass it on to his daughter (who is affected by the condition) as he only has one X chromosome.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 06:27:42 pm
yer according to notes, stem cells are multipotent and can only give rise to certain cell times so answer D?

Yes, some stem cells are multipotent and will give rise to limited cell types. However, the question talks about stem cells in general and since it is true that stem cells appear in the 2 or 4 cell embryo, this is the assumed correct answer.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: bah-humbug on November 04, 2011, 06:34:51 pm
but then only "some" stem cells are from 2 or 4 cell embryo (totipotent ones)? or am i wrong? 
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Mr. Study on November 04, 2011, 06:35:45 pm
I got that embryo question right. :D

My school offered everyone a free breakfast before the exam. xD.

Hopefully A+ is low.

Now for one more exam..... :)

EDIT: Reading through these comments, I probably lost 2-4 marks on MC alone...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 06:47:58 pm
but then only "some" stem cells are from 2 or 4 cell embryo (totipotent ones)? or am i wrong?

Yes, but the question states, "can be obtained" not "can only be obtained" or "are obtained"

Therefore, since the other answer refers to all stem cells and this one gives a possible source, it is the correct answer. (However hopefully they'll be lenient and see the massive ambiguity in the question)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: bah-humbug on November 04, 2011, 06:51:50 pm
but then only "some" stem cells are from 2 or 4 cell embryo (totipotent ones)? or am i wrong?

Yes, but the question states, "can be obtained" not "can only be obtained" or "are obtained"

Therefore, since the other answer refers to all stem cells and this one gives a possible source, it is the correct answer. (However hopefully they'll be lenient and see the massive ambiguity in the question)

but option D is " can differentiate into a limited number of cell types" i dnt see why option D is wrong. but i guess the embryo one is a better answer? lets just hoping they'll mark both as right.  :-\
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 06:59:41 pm
but then only "some" stem cells are from 2 or 4 cell embryo (totipotent ones)? or am i wrong?

Yes, but the question states, "can be obtained" not "can only be obtained" or "are obtained"

Therefore, since the other answer refers to all stem cells and this one gives a possible source, it is the correct answer. (However hopefully they'll be lenient and see the massive ambiguity in the question)

but option D is " can differentiate into a limited number of cell types" i dnt see why option D is wrong. but i guess the embryo one is a better answer? lets just hoping they'll mark both as right.  :-\

Yeah, lets all hope :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Russ on November 04, 2011, 07:03:12 pm
I consider both the options to be perfectly acceptable, which is why I said it was a terrible question several pages ago
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: cricketstar on November 04, 2011, 07:08:05 pm
what about question 1a, i put down nucleus...... what do u guys reckon is the correct answer? But i must say that was such a badly worded question :(
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: anjie123 on November 04, 2011, 07:34:14 pm
Can someone please link me to the file for the exam? I cant get it from Charmz' post =/
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: earlandcookie on November 04, 2011, 07:36:22 pm
can somebody please explain to me the correct answer for mc Q17? would be greatly appreciated as I am tres confused!   ???
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 08:00:21 pm
can somebody please explain to me the correct answer for mc Q17? would be greatly appreciated as I am tres confused!   ???

Answer to question 17 is A.

Since all cells are haploid, male ants must produce gametes via mitosis. Therefore, the gametes are exact clones of the parent
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: daizy on November 04, 2011, 08:02:44 pm
can someone put up all teh solutions to teh Multiple choice. Mine were :
1c,2d,3b,4d,5c,6b,7c,8d,9a,10b,11c,12d,13c,14c,15a,16b,17d,18a I guessed the rest- ran out of time ! lol
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Ravit on November 04, 2011, 08:03:33 pm
yes it should be the nucleus as the questions was obiously discussing transcription and translation... well thats my reasoning anyway
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 08:07:07 pm
why cant you assume they both have homologous chromosomes ?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 08:07:32 pm
can someone put up all teh solutions to teh Multiple choice. Mine were :
1c,2d,3b,4d,5c,6b,7c,8d,9a,10b,11c,12d,13c,14c,15a,16b,17d,18a I guessed the rest- ran out of time ! lol

This is what both Bazza and I had;


1. C
2. D
3. B
4. D
5. C
6. B
7. C
8. D
9. A
10. B
11. C
12. D
13. C
14. C
15. A
16. B
17. A
18. A
19. C
20. A
21. B
22. D
23. C
24. B
25. B


However, these are not confirmed.

Quote
why cant you assume they both have homologous chromosomes ?

The question specifically states that males arise from unfertilised gametes. They are therefore haploid organisms and do not have chromosomes organised in homologous pairs
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 08:20:12 pm
extended response solutions anyone ?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Keo on November 04, 2011, 08:21:37 pm
extended response solutions anyone ?

Lexitu and connectedu is working on it now
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: KOM on November 04, 2011, 08:35:14 pm
I'm pretty sure MC.3 isn't B because gene therapy doesn't REPLACE defective alleles, a normal allele is introduced so the normal protein can be synthesized. Correct me if I'm wrong? I put D
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: cricketstar on November 04, 2011, 08:40:07 pm
i actually wasn't sure about that question either..... what does everyone else think, cause it could have well been option D - "DNA replacement"

Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 08:52:56 pm
Again, these are just what I got.

I'm pretty sure it's right though considering the alternatives;

- It's definitely not A (cell cloning)
- It's definitely not C (triplet change)
- It could maybe sorta kinda possibly have the chance of considering being D,


But B fits the answer much better imo.

EDIT:

Strike that, the answer is definitely B. Look here; "Gene therapy is the insertion, alteration, or removal of genes within an individual's cells and biological tissues to treat disease" Quoted from wiki.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: KOM on November 04, 2011, 09:00:06 pm
I agree on you for the rest of your answers, but I remember hearing either from douchy or another source that gene therapy doesn't replace the defective allele but the normal allele is simply introduced?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 09:01:54 pm
I agree on you for the rest of your answers, but I remember hearing either from douchy or another source that gene therapy doesn't replace the defective allele but the normal allele is simply introduced?

I just googled it and the definition of gene therapy is;

"The transplantation of normal genes into cells in place of missing or defective ones in order to correct genetic disorders."

Therefore, the answer is B.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 04, 2011, 09:02:57 pm
I also had B. The other answers I (personally) don't think fit the question. Gene Therapy seemed to be the closest (and most logical) answer.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Russ on November 04, 2011, 09:09:50 pm
Strictly speaking gene therapy won't exactly replace the defective allele but "DNA replacement" isn't really a specific term in biology. I'm pretty sure the answer is gene therapy
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: HERculina on November 04, 2011, 09:10:43 pm
but then only "some" stem cells are from 2 or 4 cell embryo (totipotent ones)? or am i wrong?

Yes, but the question states, "can be obtained" not "can only be obtained" or "are obtained"

Therefore, since the other answer refers to all stem cells and this one gives a possible source, it is the correct answer. (However hopefully they'll be lenient and see the massive ambiguity in the question)
.     Cool hopefully they mite accept D too. :) all my other mc matched bazzas except one i didnt read properly -.- and the short answer was a blur cause it was so rushed :S          I circled gene therapy too cause i remebered a definition that said it replaced disfunctioning alleles...   Omagod so glad the exam is over woooot hooot ;D
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: KOM on November 04, 2011, 09:12:53 pm
I agree on you for the rest of your answers, but I remember hearing either from douchy or another source that gene therapy doesn't replace the defective allele but the normal allele is simply introduced?

I just googled it and the definition of gene therapy is;

"The transplantation of normal genes into cells in place of missing or defective ones in order to correct genetic disorders."

Therefore, the answer is B.

Gene therapy delivers functional genes to overcome defective alleles but it doesn't replace the allele physically?
From the wording of the question, it's saying it replaces it physically. I may be wrong.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 04, 2011, 09:14:46 pm
For question (SA) 5e) i. I had Frame shift (single-base substitution). I accidentally forgot to cross out the word frame shift prior to the exam finishing. Because I mentioned the single-base substitution, will I still get the mark? :/ Stupid mistake.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 09:15:48 pm
I agree on you for the rest of your answers, but I remember hearing either from douchy or another source that gene therapy doesn't replace the defective allele but the normal allele is simply introduced?

I just googled it and the definition of gene therapy is;

"The transplantation of normal genes into cells in place of missing or defective ones in order to correct genetic disorders."

Therefore, the answer is B.

Gene therapy delivers functional genes to overcome defective alleles but it doesn't replace the allele physically?
From the wording of the question, it's saying it replaces it physically. I may be wrong.

Technically that's correct but "DNA replacement" isn't a specific biological term. I'm like 95% sure the answer is B.


Quote
For question (SA) 5e) i. I had Frame shift (single-base substitution). I accidentally forgot to cross out the word frame shift prior to the exam finishing. Because I mentioned the single-base substitution, will I still get the mark? :/ Stupid mistake.

Hopefully. I have however read on past examination reports that if the correct answer is given followed by incorrect information no marks were awarded :/
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: KOM on November 04, 2011, 09:21:21 pm
I agree on you for the rest of your answers, but I remember hearing either from douchy or another source that gene therapy doesn't replace the defective allele but the normal allele is simply introduced?

I just googled it and the definition of gene therapy is;

"The transplantation of normal genes into cells in place of missing or defective ones in order to correct genetic disorders."

Therefore, the answer is B.

Gene therapy delivers functional genes to overcome defective alleles but it doesn't replace the allele physically?
From the wording of the question, it's saying it replaces it physically. I may be wrong.

Technically that's correct but "DNA replacement" isn't a specific biological term. I'm like 95% sure the answer is B.


I was going to put gene therapy too because it was the obvious answer but there was one question in past exam where the answer was.. "Multiple allelic" which seemed pretty stupid too.. I'm probably looking into it too much LOL. Doesn't matter anyway. Thanks for your input
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: ezye21 on November 04, 2011, 09:22:29 pm
extened response answers anyone ?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 09:31:24 pm
Quote
extened response answers anyone ?


extended response solutions anyone ?

Lexitu and connectedu is working on it now



Quote
I was going to put gene therapy too because it was the obvious answer but there was one question in past exam where the answer was.. "Multiple allelic" which seemed pretty stupid too.. I'm probably looking into it too much LOL. Doesn't matter anyway. Thanks for your input
...But multiple allelic is a biological term. It refers to a trait controlled at one gene locus by many alleles shown as discontinuous variation. Anyway, it's one question, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Bing 101 on November 04, 2011, 09:34:23 pm
5 bi (I think). Why couldn't the gel and restriction enzymes be used? :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: xiaoselena on November 04, 2011, 09:39:11 pm
For Question  7c ii) Outline 2 types of evidence, other than DNA analysis, that can be used to determine the relatedness and age of early hominins.

Is it possible to gain marks if i wrote : larger cranial capacity in younger hominins & More prominent brow ridges in younger hominins??

I know I've screwed this question up, but maybe its possible? Desperate for marks~ Made 2 damned careless mistakes in MC Arghhh :(
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 04, 2011, 09:40:06 pm
I said because it was only a single-base substitution, so the difference wouldn't be able to be detected using Gel Electrophoresis (the fragments would look virtually identical).
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 09:43:07 pm
I said because it was only a single-base substitution, so the difference wouldn't be able to be detected using Gel Electrophoresis (the fragments would look virtually identical).

Yesh, this is what I wrote = D
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 04, 2011, 09:44:16 pm
For Question  7c ii) Outline 2 types of evidence, other than DNA analysis, that can be used to determine the relatedness and age of early hominins.

Is it possible to gain marks if i wrote : larger cranial capacity in younger hominins & More prominent brow ridges in younger hominins??

I know I've screwed this question up, but maybe its possible? Desperate for marks~ Made 2 damned careless mistakes in MC Arghhh :(


We're only human ;P Making mistakes is natural. If you never made mistakes, you might as well be a computer.

In regards to your question... I talked about Stratigraphy (Position of Superposition) and how that could be used to gain the relative age of the hominin fossil (e.g. oldest stratum situated at the bottom, progressively younger strata lie above it). I also talked about the Principle of Correlation (Which was a mistake, I should've talked about Radiometric dating...)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: TheEscapist on November 04, 2011, 09:44:25 pm
Restriction enzymes question, i answered that because it was a substitution mutation the allele for normal and mutated will be the same length. Thus will appear as the same band pattern on Gel Electrophoresis and you wouldnt be able to identify between them.
However, another dodgy question. What if the restriction enzyme cut at the sequence that was changed, this would cause one to cut to different sizes and the other allele to not.
Again. VCAA.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 09:45:32 pm
Restriction enzymes question, i answered that because it was a substitution mutation the allele for normal and mutated will be the same length. Thus will appear as the same band pattern on Gel Electrophoresis and you wouldnt be able to identify between them.
However, another dodgy question. What if the restriction enzyme cut at the sequence that was changed, this would cause one to cut to different sizes and the other allele to not.
Again. VCAA.

One base pair is not gonna make a noticeable change. Your answer was correct.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 04, 2011, 09:45:43 pm
I said because it was only a single-base substitution, so the difference wouldn't be able to be detected using Gel Electrophoresis (the fragments would look virtually identical).

Yesh, this is what I wrote = D

Yay ^_^
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: xiaoselena on November 04, 2011, 09:52:04 pm
Restriction enzymes question, i answered that because it was a substitution mutation the allele for normal and mutated will be the same length. Thus will appear as the same band pattern on Gel Electrophoresis and you wouldnt be able to identify between them.
However, another dodgy question. What if the restriction enzyme cut at the sequence that was changed, this would cause one to cut to different sizes and the other allele to not.
Again. VCAA.

One base pair is not gonna make a noticeable change. Your answer was correct.

But if u cut in the middle of the mutation, one would produce 2 fragments and the other would be only 1 fragment... And that would be identifiable, right?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: charsiuvce on November 04, 2011, 09:52:13 pm
What did everyone say for the last question...Q7 part d?
for i) exposure to oxygen to it decays faster
     ii) undisturbed by other animals
thats what i said anyway =/
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: nubs on November 04, 2011, 09:53:42 pm
For that question, I wrote that there was no restriction enzyme that had the required recognition sequence that would allow for proper differentiation between the two... how does that sound?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: TheEscapist on November 04, 2011, 09:57:16 pm
For slow burial i did exposure to animals and scavangers as only parts of the organism will be buried at one time, other parts will be partially open for scavenging. Thus "partial" fossilization will occur. Then the next question i did low ozygen levels and thus, lack of scavenegers and decomposers causes easier fossilization.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: xiaoselena on November 04, 2011, 09:58:05 pm
For that question, I wrote that there was no restriction enzyme that had the required recognition sequence that would allow for proper differentiation between the two... how does that sound?

Thats what i wrote too :D although i dont think i explained it well enough
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: nubs on November 04, 2011, 10:01:05 pm
For that question, I wrote that there was no restriction enzyme that had the required recognition sequence that would allow for proper differentiation between the two... how does that sound?

Thats what i wrote too :D although i dont think i explained it well enough

It was only worth one mark though, so I hope we get it right
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: xiaoselena on November 04, 2011, 10:02:01 pm

We're only human ;P Making mistakes is natural. If you never made mistakes, you might as well be a computer.

In regards to your question... I talked about Stratigraphy (Position of Superposition) and how that could be used to gain the relative age of the hominin fossil (e.g. oldest stratum situated at the bottom, progressively younger strata lie above it). I also talked about the Principle of Correlation (Which was a mistake, I should've talked about Radiometric dating...)

I guess my answer didn't really answer that question huh
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: banditkeith on November 04, 2011, 10:28:25 pm
I told myself I wasn't gonna come here to see what everyone thought of the exam.
I clear have no self restraint.
Glad the general consensus is that it was an easy but stupidly ambiguous exam
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 10:35:00 pm
I told myself I wasn't gonna come here to see what everyone thought of the exam.
I clear have no self restraint.
Glad the general consensus is that it was an easy but stupidly ambiguous exam

Yup, that's pretty much it. (Dw, I told myself the same thing and ended up coming on as soon as I got home lol x_x)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: flick_rocks93 on November 04, 2011, 10:43:47 pm
Does anybody have solutions yet?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 10:48:11 pm
Does anybody have solutions yet?

My/Bazza's multichoice answers are here although they haven't been 100% confirmed:

1. C
2. D
3. B
4. D
5. C
6. B
7. C
8. D
9. A
10. B
11. C
12. D
13. C
14. C
15. A
16. B
17. A
18. A
19. C
20. A
21. B
22. D
23. C
24. B
25. B

Lexitu and connectedu are working on extended response/ detailed multichoice.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: HERculina on November 04, 2011, 10:49:55 pm
For the last question is 'hard parts of organism' an answer? And for the question before it i just said slow burial of sediments which isnt ideal for fossilization and didn't explain further is that still worth a mark  :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: mjwalka on November 04, 2011, 10:54:40 pm
yessss 24/25, now to die on the short answer.. :'(
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: banditkeith on November 04, 2011, 11:02:54 pm
For the last question is 'hard parts of organism' an answer? And for the question before it i just said slow burial of sediments which isnt ideal for fossilization and didn't explain further is that still worth a mark  :)

I had possession of hard parts/structures as well. Not sure if it was a factor that would fit into the diagram but let's hope it works hey? hahaha
I think you had to mention WHY it wasn't ideal (So stuff like decomposing easier or eaten by scavengers) to get the one mark.
Don't hold me to that though.

PS. Still raging with the stupid RNA polymerase question and stupid OLWS allele/gene
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: lexitu on November 04, 2011, 11:10:32 pm
Sorry for the delay guys! I know everyone is really keen to see our version of the solutions - rest assured we are working on them but have been very busy with other things and haven't quite been able to finish them according to schedule.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: nubs on November 04, 2011, 11:21:34 pm
Sorry for the delay guys! I know everyone is really keen to see our version of the solutions - rest assured we are working on them but have been very busy with other things and haven't quite been able to finish them according to schedule.

without sounding rude, how long do you reckon it might take?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 04, 2011, 11:22:21 pm
Sorry for the delay guys! I know everyone is really keen to see our version of the solutions - rest assured we are working on them but have been very busy with other things and haven't quite been able to finish them according to schedule.

Lol, dw too much about it. It's the weekend and none of us have any exams tomorrow or the day after. I'm sure we can wait a little while longer n_n
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: banditkeith on November 04, 2011, 11:27:58 pm
Sorry for the delay guys! I know everyone is really keen to see our version of the solutions - rest assured we are working on them but have been very busy with other things and haven't quite been able to finish them according to schedule.

Lol, dw too much about it. It's the weekend and none of us have any exams tomorrow or the day after. I'm sure we can wait a little while longer n_n

^This. I don't know why people are so eager for the solutions. It's not like you can actually change anything by reading them.
Besides, it's your time that we are taking to get the solutions so yeah.. Take your time!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: simpak on November 04, 2011, 11:32:52 pm
If it helps, after skimming, I think I agree with all of Bazza and Panicmode's answers, but that probably doesn't really help.
I NEED TO STOP PROCRASTINATING.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Panicmode on November 05, 2011, 12:06:33 am
If it helps, after skimming, I think I agree with all of Bazza and Panicmode's answers, but that probably doesn't really help.
I NEED TO STOP PROCRASTINATING.

Lol, everyone knows the feeling.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: scocliffe09 on November 05, 2011, 03:13:28 am
Sorry for the delay guys! I know everyone is really keen to see our version of the solutions - rest assured we are working on them but have been very busy with other things and haven't quite been able to finish them according to schedule.

without sounding rude, how long do you reckon it might take?
Still going...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: scocliffe09 on November 05, 2011, 04:25:44 am
Sorry for the delay guys! I know everyone is really keen to see our version of the solutions - rest assured we are working on them but have been very busy with other things and haven't quite been able to finish them according to schedule.

without sounding rude, how long do you reckon it might take?
Still going...
Ok I've finished everything except q5, which I will have a look at tomorrow. Lex will upload them once he wakes up.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Russ on November 05, 2011, 09:03:19 am
Restriction enzymes question, i answered that because it was a substitution mutation the allele for normal and mutated will be the same length. Thus will appear as the same band pattern on Gel Electrophoresis and you wouldnt be able to identify between them.
However, another dodgy question. What if the restriction enzyme cut at the sequence that was changed, this would cause one to cut to different sizes and the other allele to not.
Again. VCAA.

One base pair is not gonna make a noticeable change. Your answer was correct.

If the RE digestion site included the point mutation then it would produce different amounts of fragments and would be very detectable, so it's slightly ambiguous. That said, that's a fairly unlikely situation, so the answer is likely to be that using restriction enzymes would still produce similar bands
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: nelsonzhang on November 05, 2011, 10:43:19 am
fkn Q1 ambiguous piece of shit, i thought u can only choose from the 2 structures given, and i chose ribosomes cause rna polymerase is an enzyme(protein) so it'd be synthesised there =S, FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 05, 2011, 10:56:28 am
Yeah it was such a vague, ambiguous question. I have a feeling VCAA may be awarding marks to everyone for that question. It was no specific enough.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: lexitu on November 05, 2011, 11:00:30 am
I have uploaded all of the questions except for question 5 which we will look to complete soon. Massive thank you to Edward, who after end of Medicine exam celebrations stayed up till 5am to work on the answers :)

2011 VCAA Biology Unit 4 exam answers can be found here.

I will make another page and get Russ (or another mod) to sticky it once the complete set are up!

Thank you for your patience and understanding :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: TheEscapist on November 05, 2011, 11:07:29 am
Thankyou! Would be interesting to see whats your thoughts on question 5 soon as well.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 05, 2011, 11:15:57 am
For 2) ii) & iii)

I understand that ii) is Bb x bb

But for question 2iii). The test cross you did with the punnet square is Bb x Bb? It's supposed to be Bb x bb. (Isn't it..)?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: TheEscapist on November 05, 2011, 11:16:19 am
Question 2aiii)
The parents are Bb (yellow) and bb (blue) as stated in your answer previously, but in the cross you have them as both heterozygous? Am i missing something or just a little blunder...Would hate to lose something for misreading.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 05, 2011, 11:17:35 am
Question 2aiii)
The parents are Bb (yellow) and bb (blue) as stated in your answer previously, but in the cross you have them as both heterozygous? Am i missing something or just a little blunder...Would hate to lose something for misreading.

I noticed the same error.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (later)
Post by: Callum on November 05, 2011, 11:19:13 am
for 6 cii) i wrote about introducing some kansas/nebraska chickens to increase genetic diversity in illnois pop? as all pops are same species

I did this too?

Also thanks to everyone who put the exam answers together.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: lexitu on November 05, 2011, 11:23:22 am

for 6 cii) i wrote about introducing some kansas/nebraska chickens to increase genetic diversity in illnois pop? as all pops are same species


+ do you think there's a chance of acceptingn "structure M" due to ambigous nature of the q?

Yes that's fine - fits under introducing a breeding program.

Personally I think the chief assessor will either award everyone a mark, or, accept nucleus or structure.

---
And yes - there is a small error - we will update this in our next version of answers. Thank you for pointing it out :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 05, 2011, 11:24:28 am

for 6 cii) i wrote about introducing some kansas/nebraska chickens to increase genetic diversity in illnois pop? as all pops are same species


+ do you think there's a chance of acceptingn "structure M" due to ambigous nature of the q?

Yes that's fine - fits under introducing a breeding program.

Personally I think the chief assessor will either award everyone a mark, or, accept nucleus or structure.

---
And yes - there is a small error - we will update this in our next version of answers. Thank you for pointing it out :)

No worries ;)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: lexitu on November 05, 2011, 11:27:19 am
We did :)

"Symbol for yellow must be a capital letter, and it is preferable to have distinct upper and lower case letters."
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nubs on November 05, 2011, 11:29:49 am
They aren't working? The link only takes me to the unit 3 solutions, I can't see the unit 4 link there
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 05, 2011, 11:33:15 am
They aren't working? The link only takes me to the unit 3 solutions, I can't see the unit 4 link there

http://www.box.net/shared/nf6lqoz0og323vao3s0k   <---- Link.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Reckoner on November 05, 2011, 11:53:07 am
Thanks to all who put together the solutions, and anticipating your thoughts on Q5. Lost 4-7 marks I think.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Panicmode on November 05, 2011, 11:54:26 am
Looks like I only lost the one mark for putting ribosomes (structure M) instead of nucleus. Also, not sure if it's been pointed out, but the test cross in 2a)ii is wrong.

Thanks to everyone that put this together. :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: luckii on November 05, 2011, 11:56:57 am
thank you!!!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: polkadot on November 05, 2011, 12:01:01 pm
Thanks for the solutions! Do you guys think that nuclear (chromosomal DNA) would be acceptable for q.7aii?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: scocliffe09 on November 05, 2011, 12:02:32 pm
Looks like I only lost the one mark for putting ribosomes (structure M) instead of nucleus. Also, not sure if it's been pointed out, but the test cross in 2a)ii is wrong.

Thanks to everyone that put this together. :)
I think that they may well not award the mark for q1a structure M. The biology assessors have been known to do worse in the past (see: intact skin) and rarely acknowledge their own errors, no matter how obvious (see ethylene vs. ethene). So I wouldn't pin your hopes on getting that mark.
Silly Microsoft word put a capital letter in the Punnett Square and I worked off that! - sorry - will update those in a second.
I don't know where nuclear DNA is specific enough for 7aii to be honest.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nubs on November 05, 2011, 12:03:41 pm
Looks like I only lost the one mark for putting ribosomes (structure M) instead of nucleus. Also, not sure if it's been pointed out, but the test cross in 2a)ii is wrong.

Thanks to everyone that put this together. :)

What's wrong with it?

I think you mean 2a)iii
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: davo__666 on November 05, 2011, 12:05:56 pm
3b1: Would stating the process is to remove the Nucleus of the egg still be correct but not saying it was enucleation?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: impossible.is.nothing on November 05, 2011, 12:15:37 pm
for the flower question i wrote Yb + bb ... would this be acceptable?
also it says that one of the parents is hertro being Yb and then the other is blue so wouldn't it have to be bb? not Yb + Yb .. thats how the cross is done in the suggested answer... im prob completely wrong but just askinggg?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: davo__666 on November 05, 2011, 12:19:35 pm
Nar that would not be correct. The alleles are for the same Gene So they had to be the same letter. Yy or Bb. But im sure you wil get consequential marksfor when u did ur cross and did ur ratio's?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: davo__666 on November 05, 2011, 12:20:31 pm
question one really was bulklshit, couldn't they of asked "what organelle is Rna polyemarase found in?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: scocliffe09 on November 05, 2011, 12:20:57 pm
3b1: Would stating the process is to remove the Nucleus of the egg still be correct but not saying it was enucleation?
Depends on the mark allocation but I think that would be fine.
ALSO: updated solutions :)
http://connecteducation.com.au/solutions.html
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: davo__666 on November 05, 2011, 12:28:51 pm
2Bb:2bb  don't you have to simplify to this -->  1Bb:1bb
thanks for the solutions
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nubs on November 05, 2011, 12:48:07 pm
Did you have to show the ratios of the phenotypes and genotypes in question 2? Or could you simply list what they were? They didn't ask for the ratios, did they?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Namit on November 05, 2011, 01:21:56 pm
Well technically RNA polymerase is found in ribosomes isnt it? Its an enzyme, therefore a protein, and ribosomes produce proteins? But ... transcription has to take place before that can happen so I guess the initial location of rna polymerase is the nucleus. Ambiguous but they should accept both..

Regarding question 3, "replacement of a defective allele with a normal allele... " , vcaa writes in the examiners report for 2008 :
"Gene therapy aims to insert a normal/functioning allele into a cell.
An example of incorrect information provided by students was ‘the removal of an allele or the insertion of an allele into
the body’. "


So Would 'DNA replacement' be correct?  Because they're saying that the for gene therapy, the removal of an allele is incorrect, and replacing involves removing.... ?

What do you think will be A+ cut off marks? 60/75?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: onoff312 on November 05, 2011, 02:37:00 pm
I hope these answers are not exactly like VCAA would say i think they are a bit narrow in their responses.
If VCAA did not award a mark for A i) answered Structure M i would be surprised since the question did not ask for identifying the organelle but which structure.

Fairly sure i got 21/25 for multi choice and quite well on the short answer hopefully that gets me a 60/75!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: tanya.j on November 05, 2011, 02:38:27 pm
What was the other type of DNA you could use aside from Mitochondrial DNA?
So um, I'm guessing if you wrote mRNA, it's wrong? *-)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: tanya.j on November 05, 2011, 02:41:22 pm
For question 2, did you have to show ratios. I did the punnet square and i think i just said that theres a 50% chance of it being yellow or blue :O lol
i didnt wrote out the phenotypes again cos i assumed they will take that from the punnet square :S
Am i going to loose marks for this Q?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: ggxoxo on November 05, 2011, 03:23:57 pm
Can someone please explain something to me; if the cut off was 62/75 like last year, would 68/75 be good or bad (to get like 45 + assuming other GAs are high A+s)?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: TheEscapist on November 05, 2011, 03:51:24 pm
Would largely depend on your midyear as well id think.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: ggxoxo on November 05, 2011, 03:52:29 pm
assuming mid year was also 68/75
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: REBORN on November 05, 2011, 03:54:40 pm
68,68 is 48+
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: ggxoxo on November 05, 2011, 04:02:29 pm
now lets all hope VCAA redeems itself from their ambiguity this year by being just a bit lenient!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: TheEscapist on November 05, 2011, 04:11:27 pm
What would i need on this exam do you think after a 65ish/75 midyear, and an 85% average on sacs, to get a 45+?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: zoeee on November 05, 2011, 04:48:17 pm
does anyone think question 1 was highly ambigious
and im considering that the suggested answers may be wrong
because it asked for what structure would rna polymerase would be found in, since they had only labelled structures M and N, people would automatically assume it has to be one of those and they did not in fact have to name the nucleus??
i went for the ribosomes because its an enzyme because of it so should be interesting to see if that point is raised by some of the teachers
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nubs on November 05, 2011, 04:59:37 pm
does anyone think question 1 was highly ambigious
and im considering that the suggested answers may be wrong
because it asked for what structure would rna polymerase would be found in, since they had only labelled structures M and N, people would automatically assume it has to be one of those and they did not in fact have to name the nucleus??
i went for the ribosomes because its an enzyme because of it so should be interesting to see if that point is raised by some of the teachers

There's been a massive rant on this earlier on in the thread
but the only reason I wouldn't put down ribosomes is because that seems more like a unit 3 question
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: kostak on November 05, 2011, 05:33:38 pm
i think it could be ribsomes, as RNA polymerase is an enzyme, but again it was a highly ambigious question (probably more than 1 correct answer by VCAA) and I thought that the questions about the horses and the homozygous lethal genes were also quite badly written. I think a lot of students would have found that though...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: cricketstar on November 05, 2011, 06:27:26 pm
Hopefully they award marks for both nucleus and ribosome as that was such an ambiguous question.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: zoeee on November 05, 2011, 07:37:31 pm
yeah i think it will be one of those questions where they award marks for both
the whole paper was very...  broad and the examiners are going to have a lot of fun reading because of the variety of answers that could have been given i reckon
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Namit on November 05, 2011, 07:50:59 pm
bump:

Well technically RNA polymerase is found in ribosomes isnt it? Its an enzyme, therefore a protein, and ribosomes produce proteins? But ... transcription has to take place before that can happen so I guess the initial location of rna polymerase is the nucleus. Ambiguous but they should accept both..

Regarding question 3, "replacement of a defective allele with a normal allele... " , vcaa writes in the examiners report for 2008 :
"Gene therapy aims to insert a normal/functioning allele into a cell.
An example of incorrect information provided by students was ‘the removal of an allele or the insertion of an allele into
the body’. "

So Would 'DNA replacement' be correct?  Because they're saying that the for gene therapy, the removal of an allele is incorrect, and replacing involves removing.... ?

What do you think will be A+ cut off marks? 60/75?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: ggxoxo on November 05, 2011, 08:59:27 pm
What would i need on this exam do you think after a 65ish/75 midyear, and an 85% average on sacs, to get a 45+?


I think as a general rule 3 A+s on all GAs yields about 40 (this is just what I've been told!)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: cricketstar on November 05, 2011, 09:38:41 pm
What would i need on this exam do you think after a 65ish/75 midyear, and an 85% average on sacs, to get a 45+?

75, just to be sure ;)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: TheEscapist on November 06, 2011, 11:43:46 am
I have also been racking my brains over something with the dog phenotype question.
Suggested solutions say that parents are BbTt and bbtt. (2ciii)
But in the previous question (2cii) say the dogs can have different genotypes if black with white spots (Bbtt and BBtt).
If BbTt and bbtt are crossed, the only possible genotype for the dog with phenotype P is Bbtt though.
Possible vcaa would take off marks if you said they could have different genotypes, but later said parents were BbTt and bbtt?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Panicmode on November 06, 2011, 11:49:52 am
I have also been racking my brains over something with the dog phenotype question.
Suggested solutions say that parents are BbTt and bbtt. (2ciii)
But in the previous question (2cii) say the dogs can have different genotypes if black with white spots (Bbtt and BBtt).
If BbTt and bbtt are crossed, the only possible genotype for the dog with phenotype P is Bbtt though.
Possible vcaa would take off marks if you said they could have different genotypes, but later said parents were BbTt and bbtt?

That is true... I wrote (just to be sure) all possible genotypes for the parents:

Parent 1:
BbTt

Parent 2:
BbTt, bbtt, Bbtt, bbTt
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: lexitu on November 06, 2011, 12:06:01 pm
^ Yes, but the question said "all pups" with that phenotype - not necessarily the one in the scenario. VCAA would almost definitely not take marks off as the question (2ciii) asks what the genotypes of the parent dogs are, not the potential genotypes. So you didn't need to give all options, although I think it's okay if you did.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Namit on November 06, 2011, 12:06:57 pm
Wouldn't BbTt x BbTt imply a 9:3:3:1 ratio ? The question said a litter of 4, so I don't think they'll accept BbTt for both parents, or will they?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Panicmode on November 06, 2011, 12:10:19 pm
Wouldn't BbTt x BbTt imply a 9:3:3:1 ratio ? The question said a litter of 4, so I don't think they'll accept BbTt for both parents, or will they?

Yes, but a litter of four isn't exactly sufficent sample space. If they had say 100 pups and 23 were black with no white, 26 where black with no white, 24 were grey with no white and 27 were grey with white. Then sure, only accept BbTt x bbtt as the genotype but with only four, it is incredibly ambiguous.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: lexitu on November 06, 2011, 12:11:19 pm
^ Yes it would, but being only a litter of four means yes it's slightly more likely to be BbTt x bbtt but this isn't a grand experiment with 100 dogs so they should accept all. It's not like they said most likely either - you should always go with that option though.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: TheEscapist on November 06, 2011, 12:14:13 pm
Surely 4 pups isn't enough for us to assume its a 1:1:1:1 ratio. Hopefully vcaa gives marks for both answers.
I also hope they give marks for protein sequencing and nuclear dna in question 7. Would make my year.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Namit on November 06, 2011, 12:15:05 pm
Hopefully they accept BbTt and BbTt for both parents...!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: LukeMcA on November 06, 2011, 01:14:27 pm
Mm, I had BbTt x BbTt as well..
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: pezz619 on November 06, 2011, 03:53:21 pm
also, for the DNA apart from mtDNA, did you have to specify a particular part of nuclear DNA??
Like Y chromosome or hypervariable regions??
not sure if i did
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nooshnoosh95 on November 06, 2011, 04:21:00 pm
so what score would i be expecting with
midyear: a+
sacs: high a/a+
end of year: high a / a+

Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: HERculina on November 06, 2011, 04:36:05 pm
also, for the DNA apart from mtDNA, did you have to specify a particular part of nuclear DNA??
Like Y chromosome or hypervariable regions??
not sure if i did
yea i just wrote nuclear DNA too. But then again why did they put two whole lines for us just to name another DNA? :(
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: pezz619 on November 06, 2011, 05:23:19 pm
also, for the DNA apart from mtDNA, did you have to specify a particular part of nuclear DNA??
Like Y chromosome or hypervariable regions??
not sure if i did
yea i just wrote nuclear DNA too. But then again why did they put two whole lines for us just to name another DNA? :(

yeh thats what i was thinking :/
hate VCAA
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: scocliffe09 on November 06, 2011, 06:11:51 pm
also, for the DNA apart from mtDNA, did you have to specify a particular part of nuclear DNA??
Like Y chromosome or hypervariable regions??
not sure if i did

don't think so. the way the question was phrased, it sounded like it need a one word answer. i elaborated a bit on "chromosomal DNA" because there were two lines, but didn't mention a specific section
I think it would be reasonable for them to expect more detail than chromosomal DNA - so I would not expect to get a mark for that, although you may get lucky.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: TheEscapist on November 06, 2011, 06:41:01 pm
What if you said "Nuclear DNA to identify the changes/mutations in the sequence, to allow tracing down evolutionary lines and to trace ancestry." As you can tell it was a bullshit answer, but specific enough maybe?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: pezz619 on November 06, 2011, 07:02:55 pm
Would hyper variable regions in nuclear DNA be correct??
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: cricketstar on November 06, 2011, 07:48:54 pm
Would hyper variable regions in nuclear DNA be correct??
I would think so :)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: cricketstar on November 06, 2011, 08:22:16 pm
What study score would I be looking at with a 65 on the midyear, a high A+ in sacs in a good cohort and around 69 on the end of year exam???
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Namit on November 06, 2011, 08:38:26 pm
mid 40s probs
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nooshnoosh95 on November 06, 2011, 08:47:11 pm
so what score would i be expecting with
midyear: a+
sacs: high a/a+
end of year: high a / a+
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: jenerator on November 06, 2011, 08:51:43 pm
will i be awarded the mark if i answered my questions using percentages instead of ratios? eg. in question 2 , where u had to draw a punnet square
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Namit on November 06, 2011, 08:59:35 pm
Yeah cause they didn't specify what they wanted :) 
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: TheEscapist on November 06, 2011, 09:13:01 pm
Yes VCAA always allow answers in percentages or any form of a probability.
Can someone also explain Question 20 from MC to me...I dont understand how option D is incorrect where option A is right.
Could be something i'm missing, I needed all the marks i could get.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: cricketstar on November 06, 2011, 09:30:30 pm
hmmm yeah I was wondering the same thing..........
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: lexitu on November 06, 2011, 09:45:21 pm
Both are reproductively active - just achieve this through different ways - that option never implies that they are incompatible.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nubs on November 06, 2011, 10:14:45 pm
Yo
if they ask for the pheno and genotype of offspring produced, but they don't ask for the ratios, do you still need to give the ratios? Cause in the suggested solutions you've given the ratios but they haven't asked for them
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Ravit on November 07, 2011, 12:19:11 pm
they shouldnt mind, unless they are wrong, putting the ratios in would just impress the examiners that you have been reading previous exam reports and are doing what you should be :D
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Charmz on November 07, 2011, 05:25:11 pm
I think you worry too much bazza. Stop thinking about the exam. It's not like you can do much else to change the result you are going get.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Greatness on November 07, 2011, 05:29:36 pm
I think you worry too much bazza. Stop thinking about the exam. It's not like you can do much else to change the result you are going get.
yes he can! he could make threats to vcaa/examiners etc, he totally would :P
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Charmz on November 07, 2011, 05:59:00 pm
I think you worry too much bazza. Stop thinking about the exam. It's not like you can do much else to change the result you are going get.
yes he can! he could make threats to vcaa/examiners etc, he totally would :P
If he hasn't done so already.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nooshnoosh95 on November 07, 2011, 06:09:06 pm
I think you worry too much bazza. Stop thinking about the exam. It's not like you can do much else to change the result you are going get.
yes he can! he could make threats to vcaa/examiners etc, he totally would :P
If he hasn't done so already.
ahahhahahaha true :P
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Namit on November 07, 2011, 09:00:56 pm
How can we get the examiners to know about some of these issues?? do our teachers tell them or do we ?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: thushan on November 07, 2011, 09:05:33 pm
Are any of your teachers assessors? If so, tell them and they'll raise it at the meeting.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Ravit on November 07, 2011, 09:07:03 pm
email the the chief assessor with any problems or tell any teacher at your school who is a bio vcaa marker to bring it up at their markers meetings.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Namit on November 07, 2011, 09:24:45 pm
I'll email 'em.
Because I'm 100% about q3 being DNA replacement because even VCAA mentions in 08 examiners report:
"Gene therapy aims to insert a normal/functioning allele into a cell.
An example of incorrect information provided by students was ‘the removal of an allele or the insertion of an allele into
the body’."

The question said: "Defective alleles may result in genetic defects. Replacement of a defective allele with a normal allele is called:
A- Cell cloning
B - gene therapy
C - Triplet change
D - DNA replacement."

REPLACING a defective allele clearly implies, REMOVING, then INSERTING the allele, and so i dont think gene therapy is right, unless im missing out on something here.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: cricketstar on November 07, 2011, 09:36:58 pm
yeah, I would be interested to hear what they say.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: A-i-d-a-n-K on November 07, 2011, 09:42:53 pm
Fucking fuckidy fuck fuck.

That exam was a worthless rag. The RNA polymerase question was just mean. Piece of utter crap.

I'm really desperate here for marks, because I know I've at least lost 6, maybe 7. :'(

For the puppy question, where we had to list the parents genotypes, I was really idiotic and wrote for the mother: BbTt, and also for the father: BbTt. Because it's a really small sample size (only 4 puppies) do you think they will accept two heterozygotes rather than BbTt and bbtt?

I did the same as you for the puppy question. I don't see why they wouldn't accept as those parents could realistically produce those offspring

intriguing
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nubs on November 07, 2011, 09:46:00 pm
I'll email 'em.
Because I'm 100% about q3 being DNA replacement because even VCAA mentions in 08 examiners report:
"Gene therapy aims to insert a normal/functioning allele into a cell.
An example of incorrect information provided by students was ‘the removal of an allele or the insertion of an allele into
the body’."

The question said: "Defective alleles may result in genetic defects. Replacement of a defective allele with a normal allele is called:
A- Cell cloning
B - gene therapy
C - Triplet change
D - DNA replacement."

REPLACING a defective allele clearly implies, REMOVING, then INSERTING the allele, and so i dont think gene therapy is right, unless im missing out on something here.

Definition of gene therapy: Gene therapy is the insertion, alteration, or removal of genes within an individual's cells and biological tissues to treat disease

The answer is B, dude
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Namit on November 07, 2011, 09:53:30 pm
I'm adamant about it! there was another trial exam i did that said similar, ill try and find out which one...

Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nubs on November 07, 2011, 10:02:05 pm
If you're right, the VCAA assessors will mark you as right
They're not idiots, they don't need to be told how to do their jobs by students
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Namit on November 07, 2011, 10:05:49 pm
True - however in the past they accepted 2 answers due to similar circumstances. miswording in the question etc...
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Truck on November 07, 2011, 10:21:00 pm
If you're right, the VCAA assessors will mark you as right
They're not idiots, they don't need to be told how to do their jobs by students

Disagree, based off some of the questions on the 2011 exam, they clearly are idiots!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: thushan on November 07, 2011, 10:34:18 pm
Going B.

Whilst the term 'DNA replacement' may describe what is being done, it is not an accepted biology jargonistic term - sorry mate.
It's gene therapy!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nubs on November 07, 2011, 10:34:42 pm
If you're right, the VCAA assessors will mark you as right
They're not idiots, they don't need to be told how to do their jobs by students

Disagree, based off some of the questions on the 2011 exam, they clearly are idiots!

Haha I'm pretty sure the assessors weren't the ones who wrote the exam, they saw the exam the same time we did :P
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: TheEscapist on November 07, 2011, 10:35:48 pm
I already emailed VCAA.
Project manager of examinations told me that i should not regard answers from the internet as official VCAA answers to examinations and that they are aware of problems as they are every year, and will discuss all possible solutions before correcting any exams.

Looks like we sit back, wait, and hope the examiners are reasonable. All we could do from day one, i'm pretty sure.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: nooshnoosh95 on November 08, 2011, 07:12:51 pm
hey guys
you know for question one of short answer it asks which structure RNA polymerase can be found
i know its involved in transcription so in the nucleus
but did anyone else think we had to chose from the labelled M and P structures
and if so which one is the correct answer??

thanks
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: lexitu on November 08, 2011, 07:18:07 pm
As mentioned many times, we think the question was unclear and confusing, but nucleus was the most appropriate answer. Also note that the structures were referred to in later questions, so it's not like they were there for no reason.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: simpak on November 09, 2011, 04:02:04 pm
I think they would have written: In which structure, M or P, is RNA polymerase found?
If they had wanted you to choose from them anyway.
They really should have written 'In which organelle' or 'At what location in the cell' but the mind of a VCAA writer is a mysterious realm and far too difficult and complexly ridiculous for mere mortals to understand.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: hawlii on November 10, 2011, 02:48:08 pm
is the dispute for question five that it says homozygous so we dont know if they mean all homozygous or just recessive homozygous die?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: LittleMunckin on November 10, 2011, 06:25:33 pm
A teacher at my school is an official exam assessor this year, and it has been released that they are giving everyone a mark for 1a) based on its ambiguity! SO YAYYAYAYYA
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Panicmode on November 10, 2011, 06:31:01 pm
A teacher at my school is an official exam assessor this year, and it has been released that they are giving everyone a mark for 1a) based on its ambiguity! SO YAYYAYAYYA

That's amazing yay =D

Quote
is the dispute for question five that it says homozygous so we dont know if they mean all homozygous or just recessive homozygous die?

Yeah, kinda. But to be honest it seemed like it was trying to say that it was an autosomal recessive trait. People might have inferred that heterozygous advantage occurred, but thinking about it logically, this doesn't make sense. The mortality rate of horses would have to be 1/2 (as only heterozygous horses can breed) and we know this just isn't the case.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: liuetenant on November 10, 2011, 06:32:20 pm
YAY!!!!! that question was so screwed!
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: LittleMunckin on November 10, 2011, 06:33:27 pm
:)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: WhoTookMyUsername on November 10, 2011, 06:33:58 pm
It's only in a very specific breed (or species, cant remember) of horses, and not one we observe on a regular basis, so that isn't evidence enough. How many of you have seen a horse die soon after birth anyway (or at birth)?

I thought it was recessive, but i think VCAA will have to accept both options, with Homo dom + rec the most acceptable according to their (dodgy) phrasing
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: LittleMunckin on November 10, 2011, 06:36:25 pm
It has to be recessive, as the very fact that it needs to be tested infers that it is a recessive trait. If if was both dominant/recessive homozygous, only heterozygous would survive, thus the testing to see the genotype of the animal would be unneeded as its genotype would already been known (if that makes sense?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: gen.mayu on November 10, 2011, 08:22:00 pm
Well, I thought that the homozygous recessive would definitely be the answer. I assumed they wanted you to say
let O = normal, let o = disease.

By definition, if they are homozygous dominant, then they are normal - meaning they carry no traces of the disease, therefore even if they were homozygous, it doesn't matter because they are homozygous normal. Therefore, by definition, a homozygous normal hourse isn't going to drop dead at birth just because it had a homozygous genotype. That's what I think at least, -shrugs-

Also great news about the structure question! :D
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Panicmode on November 10, 2011, 08:52:10 pm
Well, I thought that the homozygous recessive would definitely be the answer. I assumed they wanted you to say
let O = normal, let o = disease.

By definition, if they are homozygous dominant, then they are normal - meaning they carry no traces of the disease, therefore even if they were homozygous, it doesn't matter because they are homozygous normal. Therefore, by definition, a homozygous normal hourse isn't going to drop dead at birth just because it had a homozygous genotype. That's what I think at least, -shrugs-

Also great news about the structure question! :D

That's what I got too, and what a lot of other people wrote as well.

Btw, it's not a specific horse species it's a particular breed (same species). Therefore, all horse breeds would have to be heterozygous if this was to occur. The inference that was meant to be made is that because she's heterozygous and unaffected, the trait must be recessive. This was probably an unfair extrapolation to ask of students who have only completed Unit 4 biology, but nonetheless, it was the one to be made.

All this information about OWLS being both dominant and recessive is irrelevant. When considering the trait, lethality it is most definitely recessive. The fact that it shows aspects of incomplete dominance in other traits (ie. overo colouring, frailty) is irrelevant when only considering this one trait.

I agree, the question was ambiguous as fuck and asked a lot of students; but I don't think the other answer is plausible... sorry x_x (Just my opinion)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: LittleMunckin on November 10, 2011, 09:18:43 pm
yay! i got 1/4 but because of the damn ambiguousness of the question (for the second one), i removed the dead from the probability- but hopefully they might accept it. doubtful though :P
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Reckoner on November 10, 2011, 10:27:24 pm
yay! i got 1/4 but because of the damn ambiguousness of the question (for the second one), i removed the dead from the probability- but hopefully they might accept it. doubtful though :P

I did that too. In the working out space I clearly identified why I removed them from the probability, so 9/16 is written somewhere on there as working, just not on the answer line. Hopefully it gets awarded the mark. 
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: HERculina on November 10, 2011, 10:44:57 pm
Oh man, totally got question 5 wrong  :'(
but seriously, in exam conditions when we're all  rushing they should at least make the question less ambiguous :(
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: LittleMunckin on November 10, 2011, 10:47:44 pm
VCAA have really screwed us over this year!! All we can hope is that they see the errors in their ways!

Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: LittleMunckin on November 10, 2011, 10:49:24 pm
But Bazza do you agree that my logic makes sense?
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Panicmode on November 10, 2011, 10:58:35 pm
But Bazza do you agree that my logic makes sense?

Hmm, I understand your logic, just don't think it exactly applies to this circumstance. The question was, "what is the chance that Penny has a foal that is phenotypically normal?"

Therefore, it she had a foal with OWLS that died shortly after birth (which is what OWLS does) then that foal would be considered phenotypically atypical and so should be included in the calculation. What did you do, say the probability of a normal foal was 3/4? (not including the foals that died?)
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: banditkeith on November 10, 2011, 11:09:34 pm
See
But Bazza do you agree that my logic makes sense?

Hmm, I understand your logic, just don't think it exactly applies to this circumstance. The question was, "what is the chance that Penny has a foal that is phenotypically normal?"

Therefore, it she had a foal with OWLS that died shortly after birth (which is what OWLS does) then that foal would be considered phenotypically atypical and so should be included in the calculation. What did you do, say the probability of a normal foal was 3/4? (not including the foals that died?)

See.. I think that question can be interpreted in the other way as well.
Your interpretation does seem more fitting but it can't be denied that it can be interpreted the way Little Munckin thought it to be.
Maybe I am just consoling myself because I put the same thing down (3/4 chance- disregarding dead foals)

Such a bad question that shouldn't have been in there! Lucky it was only a mark
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Reckoner on November 11, 2011, 08:02:59 am
The question said "died at birth", so when do they actually die? I interpreted it as the foals that had the OWLS were born dead (if you can be born dead?), which I thought would mean they would be removed (making it 3/4). Only way of knowing is waiting though.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Panicmode on November 11, 2011, 10:20:07 am
The question said "died at birth", so when do they actually die? I interpreted it as the foals that had the OWLS were born dead (if you can be born dead?), which I thought would mean they would be removed (making it 3/4). Only way of knowing is waiting though.

I understand, you mean still born. Even then though, I counted them as a foal she had and so included it in my calculations.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: simpak on November 11, 2011, 11:12:59 am
The chance that Penny has a foal that dies at birth considers the OLWS locus only.
The chance that Penny has a foal that is phenotypically normal must consider both HERDA and OLWS.
Fail to see how the chance of the foal being normal is 3/4 for that question, taking the above into consideration.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: Panicmode on November 11, 2011, 12:16:20 pm
The chance that Penny has a foal that dies at birth considers the OLWS locus only.
The chance that Penny has a foal that is phenotypically normal must consider both HERDA and OLWS.
Fail to see how the chance of the foal being normal is 3/4 for that question, taking the above into consideration.

My thoughts exactly. What they're arguing is that any foal with OWLS wouldn't come to term and so if she were to have a foal, it is impossible that it be affected by OWLS (as it would've died earlier).
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: simpak on November 11, 2011, 01:55:17 pm
The chance that Penny has a foal that dies at birth considers the OLWS locus only.
The chance that Penny has a foal that is phenotypically normal must consider both HERDA and OLWS.
Fail to see how the chance of the foal being normal is 3/4 for that question, taking the above into consideration.

My thoughts exactly. What they're arguing is that any foal with OWLS wouldn't come to term and so if she were to have a foal, it is impossible that it be affected by OWLS (as it would've died earlier).

Okay now I understand.  Nup, should still be 9/16.
Title: Re: Biology Exam Chat + Exam Copy + Answers (now)
Post by: polkadot on November 11, 2011, 05:21:52 pm
oh you are joking.. i wrote 9/16 then crossed it off and wrote 3/4, great -.-