ATAR Notes: Forum
Archived Discussion => VTAC Offers => Results Discussion => Victoria => 2012 => Topic started by: Surgeon on January 16, 2012, 10:54:54 pm
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Hey everyone.
First of all - Congratulations to all of you.
As someone that hopes to study Medicine at Monash University I just wanted to ask those of you that were accepted what your percentile on the UMAT examination was and what ATAR score you achieved.
The Monash website says that the minimum ATAR is 90 but looking through the forum, most people are sitting on 99.5+ ATAR and 98+% for the UMAT.
Thanks :)
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The Monash website says that the minimum ATAR is 90 but looking through the forum, most people are sitting on 99.5+ ATAR and 98+% for the UMAT.
Thanks :)
NOT ME!
CSP Bonded Place - 99.35, 92%ile (188 total) :)
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The Monash website says that the minimum ATAR is 90 but looking through the forum, most people are sitting on 99.5+ ATAR and 98+% for the UMAT.
Thanks :)
NOT ME!
CSP Bonded Place - 99.35, 92%ile (188 total) :)
Did you absolutely destroy the interview?
And what distinguishes bonded from unbonded?
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Unbonded - 99.95, 99%ile (217 total)
Couple of my friends -
Unbonded - 99.40, 99%ile (210 total)
Unbonded - 99.85, 92%ile
Bonded - 99.65, 92%ile
Unbonded - 99.25, 97%ile
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Did you absolutely destroy the interview?
I don't think so, I came out of it thinking it went "alright" tbh
And what distinguishes bonded from unbonded?
What do you mean? Academically or what is the general difference?
The best med (ATAR+UMAT+Interview) kids get CSP Unbonded and then then they go to Bonded places :)
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But like, what's the difference between your MBBS and theirs?
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According to the website:
Student accepting Bonded Medical Places will be giving permission for the government to require them, at the end of their training, to practice in a designated area of medical need. An area of medical need will be a district of workforce shortage as defined by the Australian Government.
Yeah, so we have to do a compulsory "placement" somewhere after the 5 year degree is over (SAME degree, just that "placement" at the end)
More mates' stats:
Unbonded: 99.90, 100%ile
Bonded: 97.xx, 94%ile
Bonded: 97.xx, 95%ile (195 total)
Unbonded: 99.75, 97%ile
Bonded: 99.00, 95%ile (194 total)
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Ahh okay. Well congratulations!
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Unbonded CSP: 99.70 and 92nd %
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Alright I think I can pretty much forget about Monash MBBS unless I manage to pull a 100th percentile on the UMAT. I don't think I'll get an ATAR of above 95.
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Wow all the scores for the CSP offers seem so much higher than mine.
I got CSP Unbonded with 99.25 ATAR and 92nd (190) UMAT. Guess I must have done well in the interview
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Alright I think I can pretty much forget about Monash MBBS unless I manage to pull a 100th percentile on the UMAT. I don't think I'll get an ATAR of above 95.
No! Don't write yourself off just yet :D
Heaps of people come into year 12 thinking thinking they could scrape 90 only to realise that they managed to get 99!
Go into year 12 and work your ass off and get that awesome ATAR :D
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If there's some extenuating reason where you know you wont be able to do a bonded placement, will monash possibly make a concession and give you an unbonded CSP?
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If there's some extenuating reason where you know you wont be able to do a bonded placement, will monash possibly make a concession and give you an unbonded CSP?
Absolutely not (I am struggling to think of any reason you might be able to offer to support this, it's not something you can "know" now). The only reason the bonded places exist is because the government wants to get doctor working rurally - it's illegal for Monash to convert them to unbonded places. Just to clarify because this is a little vague:
Yeah, so we have to do a compulsory "placement" somewhere after the 5 year degree is over (SAME degree, just that "placement" at the end)
It is a compulsory 5 years return of service in an area of workfall shortage. You must work in an RA2+ area and you must commence working there not more than 16 years from entering medical school (you must start working there within 1 year of acquiring your fellowship). If you break the bond, you owe the Australian government the money they spent on your education, which works out to about $200k but you will retain your prescriber/provider numbers so you will still be permitted to practice.
If you intend on signing a bond, I strongly (strongly) advise you to discuss it with your parents and see what they think on the terms and conditions - they're the ones with life experience.
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
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This has no relevance to me, but do you know if it's 5 straight years Russ?
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From memory it's not 5 years straight but there are rules in the contract about how you can structure it (ie you can't work 1 month of the year in Alice Springs and do that for 25 years to pay off the bond)
I think it has to be at least 9 months straight to qualify towards your return of service. I'll check the contract now.
edit - interesting, I think it must be 5 years in a row (or at least before you can work elsewhere)
subject to clause 3.2 and 3.11, not to render a Professional Service outside A District of Workforce Shortage between the time You obtain Fellowship and the time You complete the Return of Service Period unless You have applied in writing to the Minister for approval and the Minister has given approval.
subject to clauses 3.2 and 3.11, to Work in Districts of Workforce Shortage for the Return of Service Period on the following basis:
(i) You must Work for not less than 9 months of each full calendar year in the Return of Service Period;
(ii) in any month in the Return of Service Period in which You Work, You must Work for a minimum average of 20 Hours Per Week; and
(iii) in any period of 6 consecutive months in the Return of Service Period You must Work for no less than 3 months unless the Minister otherwise agrees
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Unbonded - 99.95, 99%ile (217 total)
Couple of my friends -
Unbonded - 99.40, 99%ile (210 total)
Unbonded - 99.85, 92%ile
Bonded - 99.65, 92%ile
Unbonded - 99.25, 97%ile
This is good news for Istafa's irregular offer...
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Alright I think I can pretty much forget about Monash MBBS unless I manage to pull a 100th percentile on the UMAT. I don't think I'll get an ATAR of above 95.
No! Don't write yourself off just yet :D
Heaps of people come into year 12 thinking thinking they could scrape 90 only to realise that they managed to get 99!
Go into year 12 and work your ass off and get that awesome ATAR :D
Are there any ways to gauge where I am right now?
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Alright I think I can pretty much forget about Monash MBBS unless I manage to pull a 100th percentile on the UMAT. I don't think I'll get an ATAR of above 95.
No! Don't write yourself off just yet :D
Heaps of people come into year 12 thinking thinking they could scrape 90 only to realise that they managed to get 99!
Go into year 12 and work your ass off and get that awesome ATAR :D
Are there any ways to gauge where I am right now?
Mate seriously, just study your ass off and hope for the best. No other way than the grind. MOnash med positions can also be swayed by your interview to a significant extent.
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If you break the bond, you owe the Australian government the money they spent on your education, which works out to about $200k but you will retain your prescriber/provider numbers so you will still be permitted to practice.
How did you work that out? Last time I checked, it would be about ~$18k times 5, $90k. The course is about $24k a year I thought, and we're only a 5 year course.
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I was adjusting for inflation and I think I also used 34k as the cost of one year, which may or may not be incorrect?
I worked it out a while ago anyway, the 200k was from memory, you may be correct (but you do have to factor in the annual adjustment)
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Alright I think I can pretty much forget about Monash MBBS unless I manage to pull a 100th percentile on the UMAT. I don't think I'll get an ATAR of above 95.
No! Don't write yourself off just yet :D
Heaps of people come into year 12 thinking thinking they could scrape 90 only to realise that they managed to get 99!
Go into year 12 and work your ass off and get that awesome ATAR :D
Thanks for the words of motivation, Thushan :)
I guess that's all I can really do now especially considering my poor performance in my two Unit 3/4 subjects I completed in Year 11. Could you please reply to my private message about Harvard when you have time?
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Alright I think I can pretty much forget about Monash MBBS unless I manage to pull a 100th percentile on the UMAT. I don't think I'll get an ATAR of above 95.
No! Don't write yourself off just yet :D
Heaps of people come into year 12 thinking thinking they could scrape 90 only to realise that they managed to get 99!
Go into year 12 and work your ass off and get that awesome ATAR :D
Are there any ways to gauge where I am right now?
Not really, as you're just entering VCE! You'll have a good idea where you are at by the end of this year, after you can compare your study techniques with your SS :)
Till then, work hard! :)
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I was talking UMAT haha
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I was talking UMAT haha
Oops! In that case, a good way to test yousrelf for S3 would be doing some of those online Mensa multi-choice puzzles and see how you go. Alternatively, you could sit the practice prepgenie UMAT (full and legally free, link is on the UMAT resources thread) and see how you go there :)
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Alright I think I can pretty much forget about Monash MBBS unless I manage to pull a 100th percentile on the UMAT. I don't think I'll get an ATAR of above 95.
No! Don't write yourself off just yet :D
Heaps of people come into year 12 thinking thinking they could scrape 90 only to realise that they managed to get 99!
Go into year 12 and work your ass off and get that awesome ATAR :D
Thanks for the words of motivation, Thushan :)
I guess that's all I can really do now especially considering my poor performance in my two Unit 3/4 subjects I completed in Year 11. Could you please reply to my private message about Harvard when you have time?
hopeful student, i thought u pmed me about getting a 50 in specialist and how u wrote in derrick ha's reference book so it should be sold to me for $250...
what happened to that??
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hopeful student, i thought u pmed me about getting a 50 in specialist and how u wrote in derrick ha's reference book so it should be sold to me for $250...
what happened to that??
Maybe he should consider a degree in Marketing! :P
But LOL, I do find this quite funny, are you sure you have the right guy?! He's only in Y12 now, so highly highly unlikely he would have done Specialist
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hopeful student, i thought u pmed me about getting a 50 in specialist and how u wrote in derrick ha's reference book so it should be sold to me for $250...
what happened to that??
Maybe he should consider a degree in Marketing! :P
But LOL, I do find this quite funny, are you sure you have the right guy?! He's only in Y12 now, so highly highly unlikely he would have done Specialist
lol yup i was wondering about buying something like that for 250 bucks, and checked the posts he had and realised he's in Yr 11!! lol i know... :D
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Oh and anyways, I thought I might as well add mine.
CSP Unbonded: 99.65, 99th Percentile UMAT (Total - 218)
And a friend of mine, CSP Bonded: 99.00, 96th Percentile UMAT
In terms of the Bonded though, seriously, it's not a big deal, 5 years of service in an area of work force shortage in return for being a doctor, you'd have to be crazy not to take it! And either way, it'll probably do you more good than anything to work in the country for 5 years, on top of that, some areas of work force shortage aren't that "country" at all!
lol yup i was wondering about buying something like that for 250 bucks, and checked the posts he had and realised he's in Yr 11!! lol i know... :D
If he's trying to sell that to you for $250, I can assure you that he's ripping you off in some way or another. Even if he did get it off someone who got a 50 in Spesh and is now trying to sell it to you for whatever reason, the fact that got 50 and wrote in it doesn't justify the 400% inflation :P
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My friend and I were trolling haha
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In terms of the Bonded though, seriously, it's not a big deal, 5 years of service in an area of work force shortage in return for being a doctor, you'd have to be crazy not to take it! And either way, it'll probably do you more good than anything to work in the country for 5 years, on top of that, some areas of work force shortage aren't that "country" at all!
It is a big deal. If you seriously think it's not, then why on earth does the program exist and cost the government millions?
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It is a big deal. If you seriously think it's not, then why on earth does the program exist and cost the government millions?
Incentive! Without it, people would not go and work in rural areas, thus, the government has created it to essentially ensure that there will be a certain number of graduates who will work in rural areas in the upcoming years.
But Russ, would you rather take a Bonded place or not become a doctor? If you make that comparison, you can't deny that working for the government for 5 years isn't that bad. Seriously, they even pay you! It's not as if it's 5 years of hard labour and you'll be free afterwards anyway.
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It is a big deal. If you seriously think it's not, then why on earth does the program exist and cost the government millions?
Incentive! Without it, people would not go and work in rural areas, thus, the government has created it to essentially ensure that there will be a certain number of graduates who will work in rural areas in the upcoming years.
But Russ, would you rather take a Bonded place or not become a doctor? If you make that comparison, you can't deny that working for the government for 5 years isn't that bad. Seriously, they even pay you! It's not as if it's 5 years of hard labour and you'll be free afterwards anyway.
also, you have the option of paying out, lets say after 2 years, if you really do hate it that much. like paul said, if what you want to do in the future is medicine, then anywhere between 2-5 years rural work shouldnt deter you from such a dream/goal :D
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Incentive! Without it, people would not go and work in rural areas, thus, the government has created it to essentially ensure that there will be a certain number of graduates who will work in rural areas in the upcoming years.
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Yes, they NEED a gigantic carrot to make people go work in those areas, so the bond is a seriously big deal.
But Russ, would you rather take a Bonded place or not become a doctor? If you make that comparison, you can't deny that working for the government for 5 years isn't that bad. Seriously, they even pay you! It's not as if it's 5 years of hard labour and you'll be free afterwards anyway.
I didn't apply for BMP, because I have a realistic idea of what it entails and I decided that I'd rather work for a year and consider trying again.
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What does it actually entail Russ? How bad could it be? :S
Btw, one of my friends is a 5th year Monash Meddie who's in Bonded so in a few years he should be able to tell me what BMS is like :)
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Go do some research. There are plenty of people who have worked rurally and theyll give you a pretty good idea of what its like.
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I think it be hard to argue that a bonded place wouldn't be an amazing opportunity for students who want to do medicine. Not only is it intrinsically rewarding but rural doctors get paid more, and most of these 'rural' areas are within 1-2 hours driving distance from the metropolitan.
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Do you have any idea what it entails or are you just looking at the "omg care for underprivileged patients" and basing it on your ideals?
Again, there's a reason doctors don't work rurally and why country GPs can get 500K a year
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Russ, one of my friends and I were talking about her bonded contract and from what she's telling me it seems highly restrictive! You're right in this respect...bonded would suck.
Apparently must fulfil contract (of 5 years in area of workforce shortage) within 16 years, so theres no scope for taking an extra year to do anything extra...5 (med school) + 3 (intern/resident) + 3 registrar (for physicians, is that right?) + 5 years of working for gvt = 16 years. Oh damn. Least she gets 12 months leave for each child she has (says in contract).
So it'd be very difficult to pursue further study or do something else - so your career path is kinda set for you :/
Is that right?
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Do you have any idea what it entails or are you just looking at the "omg care for underprivileged patients" and basing it on your ideals?
Again, there's a reason doctors don't work rurally and why country GPs can get 500K a year
My cousin has a bonded place and he researched it thoroughly. To me it seems like you don't understand what it entails. The reason they are paid 500k p/a is because there is a limited supply relative to demand. The reason there is a limited supply is because less than 1 per cent of students who study medicine come from a rural background. As such, doctors tend to work in the metropolitan because that's where their families are situated, hence higher wages are designed to attract these individuals - ie justifying why they should leave family behind.
Start giving some solid reasons why a bonded place isn't great, as opposed to continuously saying 'have you researched it properly', because it just makes you come across as bitter.
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Do you have any idea what it entails or are you just looking at the "omg care for underprivileged patients" and basing it on your ideals?
Again, there's a reason doctors don't work rurally and why country GPs can get 500K a year
So you imply they don't deserve care?
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I think it be hard to argue that a bonded place wouldn't be an amazing opportunity for students who want to do medicine. Not only is it intrinsically rewarding but rural doctors get paid more, and most of these 'rural' areas are within 1-2 hours driving distance from the metropolitan.
That sounds about right.
Particularly if we are talking some remote coastal town :)
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So it'd be very difficult to pursue further study or do something else - so your career path is kinda set for you :/
Is that right?
In general yes, but then again most graduates will probably attempt to gain their fellowship before they think about taking a break or pursuing a PhD or something else. The BMP isn't too bad (imo) when it comes to restrictiveness (as opposed to the MRBS) since it does allow you to get out of it and it's not super onerous with conditions.
My cousin has a bonded place and he researched it thoroughly. To me it seems like you don't understand what it entails. The reason they are paid 500k p/a is because there is a limited supply relative to demand. The reason there is a limited supply is because less than 1 per cent of students who study medicine come from a rural background. As such, doctors tend to work in the metropolitan because that's where their families are situated, hence higher wages are designed to attract these individuals - ie justifying why they should leave family behind.
I'm sure he's shared everything with you, including his personal motivations, but irrespective of that, the family thing is only a small part of it. Working rurally comes at a cost to your career as well as being a much more intensive and demanding experience, since there's such a shortage of doctors. If you honestly think that working in an underserviced area is going to be no different than working at RMH/Box Hill/StVs etc...
Start giving some solid reasons why a bonded place isn't great, as opposed to continuously saying 'have you researched it properly', because it just makes you come across as bitter.
I told him to do some research once because there's a lot out there and I can't/won't summarize it all in one post. As for bitterness...i have absolutely nothing to be bitter about and I have no idea why you think I am. I just don't like the rather naive attitude of a lot of high school students who'll take any deal just to be a doctor and rationalize away the serious contractual requirements.
So you imply they don't deserve care?
Absolutely not and that's just putting words in my mouth.
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You can't just dismiss the contract of a bonded spot as a trivial matter and it needs to be thought through thoroughly. Having said that, however, if that's what you've been offered and medicine is indeed what you want to do, it really should be seen as an opportunity and not some enormous sentence which unconditionally restricts your career path.
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I agree with Romperait, for some students, it comes down to either do a Bonded Medical Place or take another pathway such as a Gap Year or Graduate Entry.
Both sides have their positives and negatives, but do remember that if you do get out of graduate, you'd have taken 7 years as opposed to Monash's 5 years. Which means that in reality, the Bonded contract is only 3 years longer.
For some people, the security of the Bonded MBBS will entice them, whilst for others, the Bonded contract is so tough that they'd risk going through the graduate entry.
I think in the end, it's up to the person, everyone has different needs and situations, so I don't think there's a general formula which can be applied to whether Bonded is a good thing or a bad thing or whether we should take it. Some people will see 5 years in rural areas is a small price to pay for a lifetime career in medicine, others will think differently.
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So then don't make statements like "it's not a big deal" and "you'd have to be crazy not to take it". Probably my #1 problem with the approach people take to studying medicine.
Both sides have their positives and negatives, but do remember that if you do get out of graduate, you'd have taken 7 years as opposed to Monash's 5 years. Which means that in reality, the Bonded contract is only 3 years longer.
That's rather simplistic, it's less about the time and much more about the difficulties and consequences of moving away to work and the area in which you work.