ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: costargh on December 22, 2007, 02:08:10 am
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I really really really don't have faith in the VCE system when one school (Melbourne High) can get...
Thirteen 50's in Business Management out of the possible thirty-six.
Six 50's in Accounting out of the possible fourteen.
Just as examples.. (Yes I know that they are only people who have chosen to reveal their scores to the public but its a good indicator)
I can't explain how I can be suspicious, why I am suspicious or what drives me to feel pissed off about the system but to me it all just makes me raise an eyebrow.
I thought you basically had to be the top ranked student in your school to get a 50... so how can 13 students get 50's in Business Management? Maybe they are just really really really smart lol I don't know.
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Your study score isn't based on your rank in the school, isn't it? It's just based on your test scores right? But yeah the kids at MHS are really really really smart.
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Your study score isn't based on your rank in the school, isn't it? It's just based on your test scores right? But yeah the kids at MHS are really really really smart.
SACs rely on ranking at your school. But they're moderated according to exam marks anyway.
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If the top 15 students in the study group gun the exam, then there's no reason why their SAC marks should be moderated to any less than 100%, ergo making 50 possible.
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Which is where the major flaw in statistical moderation is - a cohort can do 'badly' at SACs but if that cohort as a group gun the exam, it means that everyone wins in that group.
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Which is where the major flaw in statistical moderation is - a cohort can do 'badly' at SACs but if that cohort as a group gun the exam, it means that everyone wins in that group.
But the problem is not fact that a cohort can go 'badly' on SAC's, but the fact that SAC's vary from school to school rendering any way of comparing results properly inaccurate.
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I thought you basically had to be the top ranked student in your school to get a 50... so how can 13 students get 50's in Business Management? Maybe they are just really really really smart lol I don't know.
no? maybe those 13 students were the best in the state. the SS is your ranking in the state not your school. MHS is a good school.
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the problem is not fact that a cohort can go 'badly' on SAC's, but the fact that SAC's vary from school to school rendering any way of comparing results properly inaccurate.
that's where statistical moderation comes in to ensure cross-school comparability:
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/exams/statisticalmoderation/statmod.html
http://australianpolitics.com/course/statistical-moderation.doc
It's not as good as the comparability of having common exams, which i'd like to see greater weight placed on, but neither is it wholly "inaccurate".
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I know what statistical moderation is but its not the best way of comparing students.
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I know what statistical moderation is but its not the best way of comparing students.
What is the best way?
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All students doing the same assessment of course :)
From a comparative view, not necessarily convinent though.
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All students doing the same assessment of course :)
From a comparative view, not necessarily convinent though.
I would support that. I think it would more convenient for teachers, that way. you could also do it by weighting exams more than SACS than it is now.
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makes exact sense though, doesn't it? melbourne high school is kind of supposed to get those results. statistical moderation does work, as the true measure of your score is strongly affected by the exam result. your results from your school, or your ranking, doesn't matter as much when your score is in the upper echelons (i.e. 50)
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I am all for the idea of their being more than one piece of assessment being used in the calculation of an SS. If exams moderate sacs then whats the point of doing exams. It is in a sense a conflict of interests for one assessment to either move your sac marks up or down.
All assessments should be independent from one another and their should be more than one "exam" that pretty much determines your mark (due to the moderation on sacs by exams).
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I am all for the idea of their being more than one piece of assessment being used in the calculation of an SS.
yeah most (if not all) subject should have two exams one for each semester/unit like physics and accounting. which would make like up 45%, and 45% of the study score whilst SACs would be 10%.
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Well the disadvantage of that is if a student feels sick on a particular exam day they'll be screwed. SAC marks can actually make a difference in those situations, especially for subjects such as English! (Which are crucial when it comes to affecting the ENTER).
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I am all for the idea of their being more than one piece of assessment being used in the calculation of an SS.
yeah most (if not all) subject should have two exams one for each semester/unit like physics and accounting. which would make like up 45%, and 45% of the study score whilst SACs would be 10%.
lol, i couldnt see my friends doing any study for sacs if they were only worth 10%. I think that would kill any motivation the avg student has to try.
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I am all for the idea of their being more than one piece of assessment being used in the calculation of an SS.
yeah most (if not all) subject should have two exams one for each semester/unit like physics and accounting. which would make like up 45%, and 45% of the study score whilst SACs would be 10%.
lol, i couldnt see my friends doing any study for sacs if they were only worth 10%. I think that would kill any motivation the avg student has to try.
well they would have to try for the exam would they not ?
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Well the disadvantage of that is if a student feels sick on a particular exam day they'll be screwed. SAC marks can actually make a difference in those situations, especially for subjects such as English! (Which are crucial when it comes to affecting the ENTER).
well there is always a trade-off, the benefits are worth it. if anything one could have two exams in one semester, making for a total of 4 exams in a year.
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I just don't think that for subjects where there is one exam, there is enough time to adequately and accurately test a whole years learning.
Sacs are supposed to test all or most sections of the course but the point is that they aren't uniform assessments.
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if all your sacs are easy, then you revise less during the year, making it harder to revise for the exam as you haven't studied as much during the year, making your exam mark worse, bringing down your amazing sac result. If your sacs were hard, you know how much you ahve to study for the exam to improve that area.
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if all SACs are issued by VCAA, then a lot of this wouldnt become a debatable issue...
however, doing that defeat the purpose of having SACs, they'd be mini-exams in their own right, who's going to supervise? who's goin to make sure the teachers dnt "help" students for a better score?
and then it all end up very complicated...
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who's goin to make sure the teachers dnt "help" students for a better score?
and then it all end up very complicated...
it would be done just like how the exams are currently done?
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who's goin to make sure the teachers dnt "help" students for a better score?
and then it all end up very complicated...
it would be done just like how the exams are currently done?
the extra human resources required from VCAA for supervision? that would indeed be a hectic increase...
and that kinda make them mini-exams, defeating the purpose of having SACs... might as well just have exams!
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who's goin to make sure the teachers dnt "help" students for a better score?
and then it all end up very complicated...
it would be done just like how the exams are currently done?
the extra human resources required from VCAA for supervision? that would indeed be a hectic increase...
and that kinda make them mini-exams, defeating the purpose of having SACs... might as well just have exams!
well that's what i said, replace the sacs with extra exams. all subjects would have an exam at the end of each semester like accounting and physics. the extra human resources would be worth it, and anyway its not "extra" as you would have needed such human resources to supervise SACs anyway.
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who's goin to make sure the teachers dnt "help" students for a better score?
and then it all end up very complicated...
it would be done just like how the exams are currently done?
the extra human resources required from VCAA for supervision? that would indeed be a hectic increase...
and that kinda make them mini-exams, defeating the purpose of having SACs... might as well just have exams!
well that's what i said, replace the sacs with extra exams. all subjects would have an exam at the end of each semester like accounting and physics. the extra human resources would be worth it, and anyway its not "extra" as you would have needed such human resources to supervise SACs anyway.
with that said, the amount of content of each subject have should be adjusted, as chemistry currently has a whole shitload of work compared to IT which has practically nothing if we split it
a downside, however, is for some subjects (such as Studio arts, IT, Design and Tech, chemistry), their entire practical section would become neglectible, unless of course VCAA decide to supervise students making tables and make that part of their exam?