ATAR Notes: Forum

VCE Stuff => VCE Science => VCE Mathematics/Science/Technology => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE Biology => Topic started by: Stick on December 14, 2012, 04:07:28 pm

Title: Proteins
Post by: Stick on December 14, 2012, 04:07:28 pm
A particular small polypeptide contains nine amino acids. The polypeptide has been fragmented in various experiments by breaking particular peptide bonds. The fragments obtained were:

ser-cys-his-pro-arg-cys
pro-arg-cys
X-gly-met-cys
his-pro-arg-cys
X-gly-met-cys-ser-cys

X is known to be the first amino acid in the polypeptide. What is the primary structure of the polypeptide?


I've never come across this type of question before. Am I right in thinking it's cys-gly-met-cys-ser-cys-his-pro-arg? (I'm sort of assuming a ring is formed.) If not, can someone explain how this problem is solved? Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: pi on December 14, 2012, 04:10:43 pm
LOL, what a coincidence, I wrote a question like this for the AN guide haha

The sequence is:

X-gly-met-cys-ser-cys-his-pro-arg-cys

Just find the smallest sequence to be formed :)

Given the wording of the question, specifying 9 amino acids, you'd let X = cys and it would be circular. Although irl not many peptides are like that :P
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: Stick on December 14, 2012, 04:20:22 pm
So I was right? Yay! :3

Also, I got stuck on this one:

A piece of RNA has the sequence:
U-A-C-G-A-U-U-C-G-A-A-C-A-U-G

a) Are you able to determine the kind of RNA this molecule is without any further information?
b) If you were told this piece of RNA carries the code for five amino acids, would you change your answer to part (a)? If so, what would your explanation be?


Would I be correct for thinking this?

a) Cannot be determined.
b) Given the wording in that sentence, this is messenger RNA.
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: Russ on December 14, 2012, 04:29:02 pm
You didn't provide an explanation in b)
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: Stick on December 14, 2012, 04:30:14 pm
Yes, I know, but I didn't want to give an explanation if it was completely wrong. Do I take it that it is messenger RNA? :)
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: paulsterio on December 14, 2012, 05:00:54 pm
Yes, it is mRNA, now have a go at explaining :P
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: Stick on December 14, 2012, 05:21:29 pm
Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: teletubbies_95 on December 14, 2012, 05:27:43 pm
great questions!
the first one took me liek 10 minutes to work out.
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: shinny on December 14, 2012, 07:01:37 pm
For the first question, my impression is that it's methionine given that that's the start codon by definition. A protein in their primary structure must start with methionine, with this later cleaved off in post-transcriptional modification as required. The 'circular' protein explanation doesn't make much sense given that we're dealing with a primary structure here and these are by definition linear. Pretty sure this question's from the Nature of Biology book and I remember answering this back then, so it's by no means some random fact I've picked up from uni.
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: Stick on December 14, 2012, 08:22:38 pm
Yes, it's from Nature of Biology 4th Edition. The thing is, your reasoning isn't really discussed in the theory pages just yet, so I think it was more of a case of getting the students to think in a general sense.
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: shinny on December 14, 2012, 08:27:38 pm
Hmm, just realised that they said 9 amino acids and if you solve using my reasoning, that chain's actually made of 10. I'm still not convinced by the circular protein reasoning however. Doesn't really make much sense to talk about a primary structure being circular. Even a protein which is eventually circular in a tertiary sense must have a linear primary structure as that's dictated by the specific codons in the DNA itself. Maybe the 9 was a typo?
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: pi on December 14, 2012, 08:34:45 pm
Maybe the 9 was a typo?

I think this is the most likely problem. As I said in my post, I doubt many peptides chains would be circular and only 9 amino acids in length.

I'm with shinny on this one, bit of a dodgy question.
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: paulsterio on December 14, 2012, 08:35:40 pm
I agree with Shinny on this one, I don't think that the primary structure of a protein can be circular.
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: Stick on December 14, 2012, 08:36:28 pm
I just double checked and nine is in the book. :S Students wouldn't know the start codon is methionine though, and there would be no other way to solve for X.

A very interesting problem indeed!
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: curry_bro on December 21, 2012, 01:40:36 pm
dont worry. i dont think vcaa would ever ask u a question like this. its very dodgy tbh. no question on the exam is ever ambiguous to this degree, and none require such an abstract approach to figure out. If its any consolation, i couldnt work out this question till a month after the unit 3 exam haha
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: Yacoubb on January 16, 2013, 04:37:23 pm
dictated by the specific codons in the DNA itself.

Lol excuse me for being so meticulous, even though you aren't a student, but you can't say codon for DNA, because codon only applies for mRNA. :) Just so students who read your comment don't screw up haha!
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: alondouek on January 16, 2013, 04:46:28 pm
codon only applies for mRNA.

Yep!

Three concurrent DNA nucleotide bases = triplet

Three concurrent mRNA nucleotide bases = codon

Three concurrent tRNA nucleotide bases = anticodon
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: pi on January 16, 2013, 04:50:39 pm
Codons are defined a sequence of 3 nucleic acids, and can be both DNA and RNA. In the bio course, you'll deal with mRNA codons (when using that term). :)
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: Yacoubb on January 16, 2013, 04:55:11 pm
Codons are defined a sequence of 3 nucleic acids, and can be both DNA and RNA. In the bio course, you'll deal with mRNA codons (when using that term). :)

You can use 'triplets' as a term for a sequence of 3 nucleotides that can be used for DNA + RNA. But codon is only for mRNA. I am like 100% sure lol! Marks are deducted for incorrect terminology use, and its on the assessment report! :)
Title: Re: Proteins
Post by: pi on January 16, 2013, 04:56:15 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_codon_table

Nowadays, it's fine to say "DNA codon" too :)