ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: Xue on October 09, 2013, 02:26:04 pm
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Hey guys, i am helping my friend to fill out his KLD application form. but we have just come across a few questions, do they prefer academics over leadership and extra curriculums? Would they mind if a write like a letter to them with my application? (or is it just a waste of time). And how little can the awards and leadership roles be? :P :P
Thank you so much :) :) :D :D :D
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I think they basically want you to be well-rounded... All of the people I've met through KLD are, to a point where it's really intimidating d: So it's fine to mention your academic awards or achievements, but balance it out with community engagement or sports or music or whatever, really. The teacher recommendation should take care of some of the academic side (and don't you also have to provide a report? I may be wrong..), so focus on how your friend is engaged in lyf and etc.
I put some small things on mine (Year 6 English award, hah), so it should be fine.. As long as it's not all like "I did table tennis for 3 months when I was 11, it was character building". d:
I honestly don't know how much they look at applications anyway - some people say they just look at the teacher recommendation :/ So don't worry about it too much
And in terms of writing a letter, they have fields you have to fill in on the online application that ask you specific questions, so I'm not sure where you'd fit it in
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Hey guys, i am helping my friend to fill out his KLD application form. but we have just come across a few questions, do they prefer academics over leadership and extra curriculums? Would they mind if a write like a letter to them with my application? (or is it just a waste of time). And how little can the awards and leadership roles be? :P :P
Thank you so much :) :) :D :D :D
I agree with the comment above. They're looking for people who can demonstrate all the good qualities of a leader, a part of that is academics. Our dux (who was just as brilliant at the time), didn't make it because he stressed academics too much and didn't speak about extra curricular. It's about showing that you've got some gusto, you're ambitious and you can deal with people, but that you're brilliant at the same time essentially. hahah
It's a great programme! :)
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I agree with the comment above. They're looking for people who can demonstrate all the good qualities of a leader, a part of that is academics. Our dux (who was just as brilliant at the time), didn't make it because he stressed academics too much and didn't speak about extra curricular. It's about showing that you've got some gusto, you're ambitious and you can deal with people, but that you're brilliant at the same time essentially. hahah
It's a great programme! :)
Haha oh damn... maybe a little too much emphasis on academics on my application :S (Already handed it in):
Off-topic but I personally like the application for KLD! It let's you delve into your past achievements and all these memories come in (for me because I'm at a new school this year LOL)
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Haha oh damn... maybe a little too much emphasis on academics on my application :S (Already handed it in):
Off-topic but I personally like the application for KLD! It let's you delve into your past achievements and all these memories come in (for me because I'm at a new school this year LOL)
There were definitely people among my lot who would have spoken at length about the academics of it all, but everyone I know definitely has something extra curricular, normally a lot of things. Don't forget though that your teacher application is also pretty important too, that makes up quite a lot of ground :)
Yeah, it is quite good isn't it? It asks some pretty tough questions and really forces you to think, which is cool. It's nice to read over it a few years later too :)
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There were definitely people among my lot who would have spoken at length about the academics of it all, but everyone I know definitely has something extra curricular, normally a lot of things. Don't forget though that your teacher application is also pretty important too, that makes up quite a lot of ground :)
Yeah, it is quite good isn't it? It asks some pretty tough questions and really forces you to think, which is cool. It's nice to read over it a few years later too :)
Haha we have to submit our application before the deadline (14 October) and from that day till the 21st they nominate who they want (we also had to fill in something else too to have a chance to be nominated) so we don't know if we'll get nominated or not >.<
LOL the first couple of questions not really but afterwards it is difficult and made me think deeply about a lot of things. KLD certainly gives you those things to think about compared to Monash Universities version of KLD which is the Monash Scholars (teachers nominate you on through the school without you knowing about it rather than writing an application).
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At my school they just picked the teachers pet in the year level. I honestly think it would have been fairer to have students submit an application to the school about why they should be the schools nomination, instead of just picking a student. Because the student got in, but I was talking to her about KLD once and she said she doesn't even like it and doesn't go to any of the sessions.
I think that if you were accepted into such a wonderful opportunity wouldn't you make the most of it?
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At my school they just picked the teachers pet in the year level. I honestly think it would have been fairer to have students submit an application to the school about why they should be the schools nomination, instead of just picking a student. Because the student got in, but I was talking to her about KLD once and she said she doesn't even like it and doesn't go to any of the sessions.
I think that if you were accepted into such a wonderful opportunity wouldn't you make the most of it?
Sadly there are quite a number of students who don't go to the events. In fact, the events are pretty poorly attended to be honest.
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Sadly there are quite a number of students who don't go to the events. In fact, the events are pretty poorly attended to be honest.
Yeah but just her attitude towards the whole opportunity is not what you would expect, which not only frustrates the students, but also the teachers too.
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At my school they just picked the teachers pet in the year level. I honestly think it would have been fairer to have students submit an application to the school about why they should be the schools nomination, instead of just picking a student. Because the student got in, but I was talking to her about KLD once and she said she doesn't even like it and doesn't go to any of the sessions.
I think that if you were accepted into such a wonderful opportunity wouldn't you make the most of it?
this is why I'm against the idea of KLD. It's a marketing tool to get the 'top' 2 students in each school more comfortable with UoM.
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Sadly there are quite a number of students who don't go to the events. In fact, the events are pretty poorly attended to be honest.
Its not easy going to the events, especially when Kwongers like myself are on the other side of victoria to Melbourne, I know a lot of 'Melbourne' school based kwongers attend. But its a fantastic program, you get to engage with people that are like minded not just academically, but in your interests outside of school; politics etc - most of the diversity of the kwongers in my cohort is awesome! Also when I applied I wasn't what you would call the most 'academic' of the kwongers, and believe me there are some smart cookies in this program, I mean really smart cookies! But I am passionate in what I want to study, and this program recognises the potential within students.
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this is why I'm against the idea of KLD. It's a marketing tool to get the 'top' 2 students in each school more comfortable with UoM.
It is a marketing tool. Universities don't invest in these kind of things unless there is some form of benefit for the institution. That said, it's not as though the KLD programme is a bad experience from the students. Yes, it is somewhat of a marketing tool, but that isn't having any detriment on the students who participate, in fact, it does the complete opposite. KLD was an overwhelming good experience for me, and I applied with full knowledge that it was "trying to get the smart ones early" (that's how the person who encouraged me to do it put it).
Its not easy going to the events, especially when Kwongers like myself are on the other side of victoria to Melbourne, I know a lot of 'Melbourne' school based kwongers attend. But its a fantastic program, you get to engage with people that are like minded not just academically, but in your interests outside of school; politics etc - most of the diversity of the kwongers in my cohort is awesome! Also when I applied I wasn't what you would call the most 'academic' of the kwongers, and believe me there are some smart cookies in this program, I mean really smart cookies! But I am passionate in what I want to study, and this program recognises the potential within students.
It was a struggle for quite a lot, I can certainly agree there. I'm far enough out that I got the rural allowance and made all but one event, so it was disappointing to see some people take it for granted.
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It is a marketing tool. Universities don't invest in these kind of things unless there is some form of benefit for the institution. That said, it's not as though the KLD programme is a bad experience from the students. Yes, it is somewhat of a marketing tool, but that isn't having any detriment on the students who participate, in fact, it does the complete opposite. KLD was an overwhelming good experience for me, and I applied with full knowledge that it was "trying to get the smart ones early" (that's how the person who encouraged me to do it put it).
Yes but my issue with KLD is this:
If KLD was interested in taking the best students, and making them a scholar, then UoM should have a blanket application process, where any student can apply and be selected out of one big pool. But instead, they only take 2 students per school, and is based almost entirely on the principal's recommendation (i didn't even know there was a student application process till a few days ago). So the aim cannot be to attract the highest achieving students (how can the top 2 students at 'bad school X' and 'good school Y' be treated equally? How can you have 2 candidates, say that A is better than B, but let's take B because we already have 2 kids from A's school?). The aim has to be to expose UoM to as many schools as possible.
If UoM came out and said 'okay, we're gonna have a marketing program, and call it KLDYS', then i wouldnt mind at all. but to disguise marketing as benevolence, i think is very very wrong.
Totally agree, it is a good experience for the students who do it, but my problem isnt with the content of KLDYS, its with its.... whats the word.... philosophy (thats still the wrong word...)
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Yes but my issue with KLD is this:
If KLD was interested in taking the best students, and making them a scholar, then UoM should have a blanket application process, where any student can apply and be selected out of one big pool. But instead, they only take 2 students per school, and is based almost entirely on the principal's recommendation (i didn't even know there was a student application process till a few days ago). So the aim cannot be to attract the highest achieving students (how can the top 2 students at 'bad school X' and 'good school Y' be treated equally? How can you have 2 candidates, say that A is better than B, but let's take B because we already have 2 kids from A's school?). The aim has to be to expose UoM to as many schools as possible.
If UoM came out and said 'okay, we're gonna have a marketing program, and call it KLDYS', then i wouldnt mind at all. but to disguise marketing as benevolence, i think is very very wrong.
Totally agree, it is a good experience for the students who do it, but my problem isnt with the content of KLDYS, its with its.... whats the word.... philosophy (thats still the wrong word...)
Hmmm I kind of agree with you, but I kind of disagree with you. The two kids per school thing is a little silly, in some respects. It seems a little unfair that people aren't selected on their merits, that's true. Having said that, KLD is, at the same time, a development programme and I absolutely abhor the idea that coming from a bad school means that you have less merit to be in the programme. That's a ridiculous suggestion. It is people in those situations who have to show genuine leadership to be at all applicable for things like KLD.
I do agree with you about the aims though, it is to expose UniMelb, but I don't think they're completely wrong in their approach. Two reps from each school means that it is not yet another extra curricular programme that is not dominated by inner city private school students. Yes, it works in their favour, but it also favours the students who are involved in KLD. The benefit for someone from a "bad" school of KLD is enormous, and enormously larger than those who are surrounded by achievers. Take my school for example (we ended up bottom ten out of 500+ schools and TAFEs in Vic based on median SS—ours was 23). There was one person out of the 150 students in my year level who was within 19 of my ATAR. Without KLD that wouldn't have been the case at all. It gives students in those circumstances an opportunity to network with like-minded students and also an opportunity to gauge the talent in the state, and that is extremely important in VCE.
Don't get me wrong, in some regards, I do agree with you. But in terms of a programme that is designed to promote leadership, it isn't such a bad system. It is also worth mentioning that it isn't limited to 2 students per school. They have to take one per school and may take a maximum of 5. That's often the case with the "good" schools. We had two. Scotch, Carey, MHS etc all had 4-5.
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Sorry i should have been clearer...
I'm not for a second suggesting that coming from bad school Y implies that you are less deserving/have less merit to join KLD. What I am saying, is that it is wrong to deny a student who has more merit a place in KLD in favour of a student who has less merit *just* because the 5 places per school have been used up for the first student.
If the purpose of KLD was to help those in under-performing schools have access to better resources, then they should open it up to more than 5 for under-represented schools, and have strict limits on higher-represented schools.
If the purpose of KLD is to find potential scholars (which is currently the marketed purpose), then it should just be one big applicant pool
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Sorry i should have been clearer...
I'm not for a second suggesting that coming from bad school Y implies that you are less deserving/have less merit to join KLD. What I am saying, is that it is wrong to deny a student who has more merit a place in KLD in favour of a student who has less merit *just* because the 5 places per school have been used up for the first student.
If the purpose of KLD was to help those in under-performing schools have access to better resources, then they should open it up to more than 5 for under-represented schools, and have strict limits on higher-represented schools.
If the purpose of KLD is to find potential scholars (which is currently the marketed purpose), then it should just be one big applicant pool
There's certainly a point to be made there. To be honest, when I was whacking good and bad between inverted commas, I was thinking to myself "but that's exactly how I'd put it". It should be a combination of merit, but there should be some SEAS-ish kind of thing as well to balance it out. Like I said, the strength of KLD is that it's not completely dominated by that group (though to some extent it is). That's an important consideration for UniMelb, as they have a huge image problem based on that (>90% of students coming from private schools is an image they want to shake). KLD helps them do that.
I like the idea of an open applicant pool, but with weighting (though that's inherently difficult to do).
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I like the idea of an open applicant pool, but with weighting (though that's inherently difficult to do).
i think I like the sound of that!
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I do see a major concern with this system though. Whilst being fortunate enough to be nominated for a school candidate, I do see one drawback in the system.
The main concern is that the program, or the brochure at least, insists on the school to pick students who are struggling academically or financially, or come from an Aboriginal/Torres Straight Islander background. The issue I see with this is that whilst this is highly generalised, at our school at least, the majority of people who don't do well are those that don't try, or don't really care. Therefore for them to be selected for a program like, they would simply undermine its integrity. As for the latter, I don't think it's right for either the school, or UoM to single out a particular ethnicity to be nominated for this program.
Also, the way in which some people are selected is quite varied. This may not seem fair, although it seems as if an academically achieving person would value this opportunity more and get more use out of it. However, my school, in addition with others in the area selected based on student's behaviour and relationship with the teachers. There's one of my friends, who's the smartest guy I know, and he didn't get an opportunity, which I didn't think was right. Instead, they chose a person who has already mention that he's not even going to bother applying. That is quite sad.
Therefore, leaving it up to teacher preference, and certain aspects of one's life is highly biased and can wrongly single out people as the "wrong" race, or "being poor" or not being "smart". The best way would simply be to nominate those with the highest averages as from past experiences, those are the kids who appreciate these events to help better themselves.
Just my opinion :)
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I do see a major concern with this system though. Whilst being fortunate enough to be nominated for a school candidate, I do see one drawback in the system.
The main concern is that the program, or the brochure at least, insists on the school to pick students who are struggling academically or financially, or come from an Aboriginal/Torres Straight Islander background. The issue I see with this is that whilst this is highly generalised, at our school at least, the majority of people who don't do well are those that don't try, or don't really care. Therefore for them to be selected for a program like, they would simply undermine its integrity. As for the latter, I don't think it's right for either the school, or UoM to single out a particular ethnicity to be nominated for this program.
Also, the way in which some people are selected is quite varied. This may not seem fair, although it seems as if an academically achieving person would value this opportunity more and get more use out of it. However, my school, in addition with others in the area selected based on student's behaviour and relationship with the teachers. There's one of my friends, who's the smartest guy I know, and he didn't get an opportunity, which I didn't think was right. Instead, they chose a person who has already mention that he's not even going to bother applying. That is quite sad.
Therefore, leaving it up to teacher preference, and certain aspects of one's life is highly biased and can wrongly single out people as the "wrong" race, or "being poor" or not being "smart". The best way would simply be to nominate those with the highest averages as from past experiences, those are the kids who appreciate these events to help better themselves.
Just my opinion :)
Whilst I agree with most of what you've said, the KLD selection guidelines don't preference under achieving students. Schools are instructed, as a prerequisite, students nominated for the programme must be in the top 2% of the year level.
Otherwise I agree. Our dux was unfortunate to miss out on the opportunity, but that said, the school did well enough. There were fours students in our year level fortunate enough to make the access Melbourne cut off for UniMelb, two of which were KLDs.
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Thanks for the advice guys!! Greatly appreciated, and i kinda agree that the KLD program is lame :P
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Thanks for the advice guys!! Greatly appreciated, and i kinda agree that the KLD program is lame :P
It is a little bit, and believe me, it attracts the ire of many people (one of my friends in particular went off for talking about it once because of years of animosity towards it) but it is a good programme if you do it properly :)
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It is a little bit, and believe me, it attracts the ire of many people (one of my friends in particular went off for talking about it once because of years of animosity towards it) but it is a good programme if you do it properly :)
haha yes, i believe so too, that's why i said it's kinda lame.. i think everyone should get the chance to apply for KLD, even though the panellists might take longer to work out who to choose from, but it's fair for everyone :P :P :P