ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => VCE English Studies => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE English & EAL => Topic started by: xenial on October 27, 2013, 10:12:46 pm
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Hey,
I'm a bit worried about the length of essays under timed conditions. Namely because I just stumbled across a thread from 2010, where people were discussing how much they wrote in the exam. Everybody who had gotten 46 or above in English seemed to say they had written 6 pages + per essay, with some writing up to 8 pages in the exam.
I can write about 5 on a good day, and that equates to about 1200 words. More likely is that I will write four for each section - 1000 words perhaps, with slightly less on the lang anal and more on text response.
How important is essay length? I know, blah blah, quality over quantity. But putting aside our idealistic aphorisms, do you think the same proportion of people who write 4 pages would get 10 as those who write 8 pages?
Moreover, does anybody know of someone who has actually got 48+ after only writing about 4 pages per essay?
Thanks in advance :)
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Top students will write 1000+ words for each essay. If you write 4 pages is about 1000 words for you, I suggest that you write bigger to "pretend" you have written lots of pages - just in case the examiner is stupid... My teacher advise AT THE VERY MINIMUM 4 pages, and best students write 6+. This is because the examination script book has different line spacing and is very different to a normal lined sheet. You could probably write 100-200 words per page in the examination script book, which is different to the 200-300 words on a normal lined A4 sheet of paper. Perhaps you haven't seen the examination script book, in which case 4 pages on a normal piece of paper is fine. But if you have, then I suggest make your writing look bigger! Or just write more!
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I write 4 pages of normal loose leaf paper, and my teacher said that its completely fine. I'm gonna practice using the VCAA Script book when I do my two practice exams today to measure how many pages I can do.
In terms of word count, my teacher told me that each section is to be 800-1000 words, with a bare minimum of 750 words. :)
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Oh really?
No I haven't used the script book before. I'm talking four pages and a bit of lined paper - which is over 1000 words, but not a lot over (maybe 1050).
I've only actually done one full English practice exam lol. And that was the official school one, some five and a half weeks ago. I'm just doing essay plans now - I think I've written enough. Maybe I'll do a praccy tomorrow.
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Oh really?
No I haven't used the script book before. I'm talking four pages and a bit of lined paper - which is over 1000 words, but not a lot over (maybe 1050).
I've only actually done one full English practice exam lol. And that was the official school one, some five and a half weeks ago. I'm just doing essay plans now - I think I've written enough. Maybe I'll do a praccy tomorrow.
Oh, if you're doing just over 4 pages of loose leaf paper, then that's plenty! :)
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Keep in mind some people double space, skipping a line. I remember last year I read that people did like 20 pages and I was like :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Turns out they just double spaced so they essentially did around 3-4 a section!
In terms of word count, I think 800 is pretty good! around 100 for the intro, 200x3 for each body paragraph and 100 or a bit less for the conclusion. Students who write around 1000 words I think generally do 4 main body paragraphs, and that would increase the size of their intro and conclusions so I guess that's where the extra length comes from.
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The contexts that I'm memorising, for example, are only 1000 words long. They're all creative as well. Eek. My teacher said she thinks they are great - but I'm wondering if there are any examiners in the state who would refrain from giving them high scores because they lack the depth of a six or seven page long piece of writing.
Just last minute qualms, I guess! I'm not one of those people who can smash out a 7 page long lang anal, but I am aiming high in English, and I've worked so hard in it this year. I'm just worried my goals will be compromised by the fact that I'm a slow thinker.
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Oh yeah lol. My teacher told us about people who double space their exam to lend their pieces an aura of length and sophistication.. quote her "do they honestly think we're that stupid?"
Wow! An 8 page text response getting an 8/10!! Golly. Maybe you're right then.
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there is no set/defined number of pages. As long as a piece of string I guess!
A friend of mine wrote 2 pages for context and 8 for text response, and got 17/20 for both :) Quality not quantity
2 pages for Context? Hmmm.......it would had to be the best 2 pages for a context that the Examiners ever read. ???
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Keep in mind that they're marking essays for the biggest VCE subject, so if you can produce a short and sweet piece, they'll definitely appreciate it!
You can make your pieces 500 or 1500 words long, it doesn't matter at all. They refer to their assessment criteria (http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Documents/exams/english/2009Eng-crit-descriptors-V2.pdf) when they read every single essay, and if you can satisfy the requirements to get a 10 within 500 words, you'll get it, simple as that.
The exam is designed to be done within 3 hours, so that's why you hear recommendations of around 800 words, because that's the amount of words you'll probably need to create an "insightful" and "sophisticated" piece within the constraints of a 3 hour exam.
You should definitely keep your essays concise I believe. If you're going to try to use filler words to extend the length of your essay, the examiners will pick up on it, and you'll most likely lose marks for it.
So pretty much, quality > quantity, like everyone says haha! :)
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Also, Examiners only spent 2-3 minutes on each section of a student's exam, so you have to get your points across clearly and quickly.
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from what i can recall, he said it was a poem :)
Oh okay. Well then yeah, that sounds good for a high-range response. :)
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Oh yeah lol. My teacher told us about people who double space their exam to lend their pieces an aura of length and sophistication.. quote her "do they honestly think we're that stupid?"
Wait so double-spacing isn't a good thing after paragraphs? I always leave ~2-3 lines after every single paragraph just in case I need to add anything extra, etc. and I was going to do that in the exam as well.. Is this not a good thing? My teacher's an assessor and she always encouraged us to do this just in case we're in a situation where we forgot something vital and need to go back and add it in..
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Wait so double-spacing isn't a good thing after paragraphs? I always leave ~2-3 lines after every single paragraph just in case I need to add anything extra, etc. and I was going to do that in the exam as well.. Is this not a good thing? My teacher's an assessor and she always encouraged us to do this just in case we're in a situation where we forgot something vital and need to go back and add it in..
Nah....that should be fine if you leave 2-3 lines.
I'm sure your examiner would rather you keep 2-3 lines of space if you forgot to add something, rather than putting arrows everywhere to indicate extra stuff that you missed. :)
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Wait so double-spacing isn't a good thing after paragraphs? I always leave ~2-3 lines after every single paragraph just in case I need to add anything extra, etc. and I was going to do that in the exam as well.. Is this not a good thing? My teacher's an assessor and she always encouraged us to do this just in case we're in a situation where we forgot something vital and need to go back and add it in..
Wait no no. I meant double spacing EVERY line, not double spacing after paragraphs. Lol that's fine, that's a good idea.
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Has anybody actually heard of someone doing really well with <5 pages per response though? That's what I'm curious about..
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Has anybody actually heard of someone doing really well with <5 pages per response though? That's what I'm curious about..
5 Pages of VCAA lines or normal loose leaf lines?
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If you're writing 4 pages on normal paper it'd probably be around (6 or more depending on how big your handwriting is) on script paper so don't worry too much :)
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Oh cool, okay. I'm guessing adrenaline will cause me to write more anyway.
(I meant 5 of VCAA script book btw)
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yeah, just write as much as you can. 1000+ is preferred though for the high 40's, but there are obviously exceptions. i remember i wrote 22 pages in my practice english exam in the script book with 15 minutes spare, so i'll probably aim for about 24-25 pages this time. if you've memorised your context, get that out as fast as you can! you should be able to do at least 1000 in 45 minutes... i found i was able to do 1500 in 47 minutes if it is completely memorised (but obviously i won't be able to do that in the exam because one cannot memorise everything - topic cannot be ignored)! just write as much as you can and as fast as you can!
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Just please don't look at length as the sole indicator of potential exam performance!!
I know people who can write >5 pages for each piece, but It's totally unfocused, not concise and the assessors would not look upon that favourable, since they're looking for a controlled use of language!
(sorry Brenden for using you in this example without consent) But from memory, I don't believe any of his pieces were over 1000 words, and he received extremely close to full marks on the exam!
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800-1000 words is sufficient for a 10, as long as it's a high quality essay. I can guarantee you that. The only reason longer essays can get better marks is because they go into more detail. So if you can condense the same level of detail into lesser words, power to you (makes for a better read, too).
1000-1200 is probably 'ideal', whatever that means.
For some perspective, my text response was probably between 1000-1200 and my LA was about 1300-1500. My context piece was ludicrously well over 2000 words because I spent an obscene amount of time on it (almost 90 minutes).
Guess which one was my lowest scoring piece? Context.
Essay length is not at all an indicator of quality! I've marked essays that have been 800-1000 words that are much better than ones between 1200-1700 words, and would get a much better grade as a result. It's not a concern at all. Your only concern if you're struggling to write under timed conditions should be to make sure your piece has a very clear intro and conclusion to make sure your argument ties together nice and cogently.
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Hahaha that's cray. Yeah my context is some heart wrenching piece about my grandfather coming out as gay aged 92. Super tragic. Hoping to make some examiners weep their way to giving me a 10 out of 10. But it is, relatively, quite short.
25 pages!! Insane, good luck ;). I'm guessing you're aiming for a 50 though, coming from Melbourne grammar and all. My school doesn't do nearly as well - and I won't do nearly as well, but I 'only' need a humble 47 for my course. I'll aim for 1000+, I think!
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No no I am being sarcastic! Haha, I put inverted commas around the only for a reason. Sorry if it came across that way - if I truly thought it was easy, I wouldn't be posting in this thread!
Sorry :-[
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Is it bad if your paragraphs go over one page in the script book? I only write 3 paras but they're always really long!
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That's fine, Em :). My text response had an intro, three paras, a tiny conc and was five pages.
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i dont think so, but you could always slash them into two paragraphs (literally truncate them halfway). I went to a lecture held by an assessor, and she said that it was fine to do that.
LOL! My teacher told me not to break my ideas into 2 paragraphs. Because I had a few essays and the paragraphs had similar ideas, but I split it up. She said that it doesn't look good, and its better if its done as one paragraph to show clear links in the ideas explained.
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hi quick question,
are we allowed to use erasable pens? Like the good quality types that dont smudge
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hi quick question,
are we allowed to use erasable pens? Like the good quality types that dont smudge
Don't use them, the ink can disappear when exposed to heat, i.e. when they scan them!
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My teacher actually recommended we use them if we make lots of faults.. She said she tried scanning them and it still came up fine (although it was a bit lighter than normal pen). But I would be cautious using them! I had no idea the ink could disappear when exposed to heat.
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Steer clear of them. As Kesh said, they disappear when there is contact with heart.
Use a normal pen. :)
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These pens erase from friction, and friction produces heat, so I think that's where it come's from.
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That's fine, Em :). My text response had an intro, three paras, a tiny conc and was five pages.
What do you think about 150-200 words for the intro, 200-300 per body paragraph (in a three paragraph essay) and then 50-100 for a conclusion?
Obviously not an exact science, but this totals to between 850-1200 words, which I think is a solid range for essay length. I'm a fan of short, succinct conclusions too - no more than 4 sentences, just to finalise your argument (though more than 100 words isn't 'bad').
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Here's another stupid fact that I found about Frixion pens just now:
The friction-generated heat caused when rubbing the paper with the special tip turns the ink invisible (put the document in the freezer and the ink re-appears).
Link: http://www.pilotpen.com.au/writing-instruments/frixion-range/frixion-ball-erasable-pen
If you use a Frixion pen, lets just hope that your Examiner(s) doesn't get bored when marking your paper and do this. :p
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What do you think about 150-200 words for the intro, 200-300 per body paragraph (in a three paragraph essay) and then 50-100 for a conclusion?
Obviously not an exact science, but this totals to between 850-1200 words, which I think is a solid range for essay length. I'm a fan of short, succinct conclusions too - no more than 4 sentences, just to finalise your argument (though more than 100 words isn't 'bad').
Yeah this is generally what my essays are like, except I don't think my intros would ever exceed 150 words.. My bodies are usually 250 to 300ish and conclusions are always only 2-3 sentences. Maximum 3 because it flows better when the conclusion is nice and succinct! All up, usually around 950-1200 words so hopefully I can mirror that in the exam! Language analysis is usually much, much longer for me (probably 1200+), then text response (~1000-1100) and then context (950-1000ish)
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What do you think about 150-200 words for the intro, 200-300 per body paragraph (in a three paragraph essay) and then 50-100 for a conclusion?
Obviously not an exact science, but this totals to between 850-1200 words, which I think is a solid range for essay length. I'm a fan of short, succinct conclusions too - no more than 4 sentences, just to finalise your argument (though more than 100 words isn't 'bad').
Yeah I think this is really appropriate and how I did mine (unintentionally I suppose; it both "feels" correct and I think it's what is - generally - best suited to the criteria). Yeah, conclusions for do much for me, probably better to have shire conclusion and a better written essay body
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My teacher advise AT THE VERY MINIMUM 4 pages, and best students write 6+. This is because the examination script book has different line spacing and is very different to a normal lined sheet. You could probably write 100-200 words per page in the examination script book, which is different to the 200-300 words on a normal lined A4 sheet of paper.
I was scared of this too, so I did an entire practise exam in a script book. Got it back today and the rough draft (I just against memorising :P) for my context was about 3 and half pages. My handwriting is smallish and piece around the vicinity of 850-950 words
May as well add - my longest piece was I /think/ around 970 words or something, with my shortest being 780 or so I think.
I saw somewhere else he said this was around 5 pages for him?? Correct me if I'm wrong Brendie
It's different for everyone because of their handwriting, I urge you to give it a shot before the exam on Wednesday so you don't panic on the day / waste time counting words. Even writing a page and tonight and counting the number of words will be useful for the exam :)
(eg I know I write 230-250 per page in the script book so a full 4 pages per essay is a decent amount for me where some people might need 6 or something to fit in the same number of words. I stress that quality is pretty important too though!)
Give it a shot! =)
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My LA (980 words) was I think slightly over 4 pages, with my TR (950) 5 pages (rushing handwriting) with my context (780) a little over 5.5 pages I think - but this is due to the use of haiku and shifting narrators (used an asterisk or a vertical space to indicate change making the piece longer)
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Lol I just counted the amount of lines in the book per page and used it to calculate how many pages I would've needed to write an essay I just did in the script book - 5 and a half. I feel a bit better now. Love you VCAA.
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Okay, just did one in the actual VCAA script book. 7 pages. Wth. The pages are so narrow as well - I reckon I fit in an average of 8 words per line. I understand how people write like 7 pages per essay now. Hahaha.
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Okay, just did one in the actual VCAA script book. 7 pages. Wth. The pages are so narrow as well - I reckon I fit in an average of 8 words per line. I understand how people write like 7 pages per essay now. Hahaha.
Exactly! LOL! Its easy to write heaps of pages in the VCAA Answer Books. :)
They made the spacing of it bigger, so that its clear and easy to read when they scan it and send it to the assessors. If the lines are closer together, then it makes it harder to read and slower to mark for the assessor..