General Discussion => Sport => General Discussion Boards => Fitness => Topic started by: BasicAcid on January 04, 2014, 11:29:53 pm
Title: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: BasicAcid on January 04, 2014, 11:29:53 pm
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Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: MDee on January 05, 2014, 12:19:49 am
Do both at the same time. Lose weight and tone your abs/pecs. You'll get it done in half the time than if you did one after the other. The two arn't mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Sense on January 05, 2014, 02:30:43 am
Starting out with your physique I would recommend full body workouts, Monday Wednesday Friday (with cardio in between) . Keeping your sets at around 10-14 reps is probably the most effective way to reach your goal. Really focus on dead lifts, squats, lat pull downs and dumbbell press/bench press, don't put all your energy into bicep curls and bench press like the majority of people starting out it's one of the biggest mistakes people make. I don't think you will need to worry about bulking and cutting just yet.. What you want to do is eat high protein low fat: chicken, steak, pasta, cottage cheese, wholemeal bread, milk but making sure you get HEALTHY fats in from avocado nuts etc. It sounds cliche but abs honestly are made in the kitchen, don't worry too much about ab exercises dead lifts and squats give them enough attention. Answering your question, You will just go straight to a six pack if you do it right. If you have a bf% below 10% you're going to have abs and pecs that are visible no matter how weak they are, so high protein low fat with cardio and strength will get you there on its own there's no need for cutting and bulking for beginners. Make a commitment to do it for at least 6 months and I can nearly guarantee you will fall in love with it.. You will start to see progress about 2 months in so don't give up before then (all the commercials are full of shit about 2 week transformation). Make sure you get enough sleep, sleeping is when you build muscle, keep hydrated, make sure you concentrate on form and not weight. Also instead of having breakfast lunch and dinner have small meals 6 times a day...
Good luck ;D
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 10:00:23 am
Just on
Quote
don't worry too much about ab exercises dead lifts and squats give them enough attention
- this is true, but you have to make it true. If you think "sweet I'll just squat a weight and it will work my abs" - it probably won't work like that. Same for the deadlift, a lot of people won't fully engage their hamstrings/glutes but particularly their abs (or core). Sense is right, these exercises will be good, but it's your job to focus on keeping a really tight middle. (This is actually what I do, I just do front squats and dlifts and barely any direct ab work). I'd also recommend front squats with a tight tummy for your goal.
That said, if your goal is specifically visible abs, I would also do a bit of ab focussed exercises (and getting your bf% to <~10%
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: hobbitle on January 05, 2014, 10:36:46 am
Good general advice here though doesn't apply to girls so much :) Sense had some great tips re food and good eating. I am going to try and increase my general fitness this year and start training with a 15kg pack for some more serious trekking. I want to start playing squash and rock climbing but both are dependant on finding a regular partner. Otherwise.. Cheap gym membership at Uni! I absolutely swear by a balanced diet similar to what Sense described but with less meat and more veg (I only burn about 1800cals on an average day so can't afford that much meat and carbs!) - in particular I don't eat carbs after 3/4pm. Steak and veg or fish and veg for dinner! Good luck with your goals this year guys... I've got 5kg to lose... Wanna get back to under 60... On track!
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 11:25:25 am
Doesn't apply to girls :S How?
That's awesome, re: trekking! I recommend the "Thousand Steps" memorial trail... (also - if you're going on a big adventure, you should go to Nepal and do the Annapurna circuit)
Title: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: hobbitle on January 05, 2014, 11:49:18 am
Brencookie, I went to Everest Base Camp last November. Going back in 2014 :) And to go a mountaineering course in NZ next summer.
I think the high protein thing doesn't apply as much to women (or people in general who aren't burning heaps and heaps of calories through weights). As I say, meat has too many calories for me to eat so much of it relative to what I burn on a daily basis. My calorie intake is 1200- 1300cal per day if I want to lose 1/2 kg a week... carbs and protein fill that number pretty rapidly and I have to keep portions small. But men burn more in a day and therefore can afford to eat in that way a bit more.
But I'm totally happy to stand corrected on this one. I guess I just see a lot of men on those high protein diets and not many women. For me it's because I know my body wouldn't go so well with that diet, but it could work for other women.
Title: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: hobbitle on January 05, 2014, 11:51:22 am
How much is the gym membership at Melbourne, Nicola?
I think it's about $650 per annum for an off peak membership (group classes before 2pm, gym and pool before 11am, or something like that) which isn't bad compared to other gyms. The squash courts aren't part of that though which sucks. I think if you get full membership it's like $780 per annum. Check the UniMelb Sport website :)
Maybe that just seems cheap to me because i was paying $200/month for Crossfit until I couldn't afford it anymore...
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: DJA on January 05, 2014, 11:52:08 am
How on earth do you know how much calories you burn a day? Is there like a calculator or something or is it a gp assesment?
I have no idea :)
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: hobbitle on January 05, 2014, 11:56:25 am
You can get a general indication based on your age, gender, weight and height... It's called your basal metabolic rate or something. You can Google it and you will find some calculator. It gives you a general indication of what you burn if you just lie in bed all day. From there you can add on obviously how active your lifestyle is and what kinds of specific exercise you do. It's not a bible, I mean there is obviously some room to move, and everyone's body is different. But as a starting point if you are trying to lose weight, a good way to take hold of it is to figure out how many calories you use up in a day and then ensure that you consume a deficit... Usually a deficit of about 500 calories a day results in 1/2kg per week loss. It's not gospel but it's a good place to start if you are trying to get eating habits and your lifestyle under control.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: DJA on January 05, 2014, 11:58:18 am
I'm trying to do the opposite actually ;). My metabolism is so fast that I don't gain weight so I guess I want to know my calorie intake so I can go say 300 over so I can start gaining. been ~51 kg for so long now... Makes lifting difficult.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: hobbitle on January 05, 2014, 12:01:04 pm
I'm trying to do the opposite actually ;). My metabolism is so fast that I don't gain weight so I guess I want to know my calorie intake so I can go say 300 over so I can start gaining. been ~51 kg for so long now... Makes lifting difficult.
For someone like you then perhaps the standard calculators won't be so accurate! But the advice above re food choices is great if you want to gain some weight but stay healthy. Lots of good fats like avocado and nuts, as well as chicken, lean beef, brown rice - as mentioned by Sense and some others above!
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 12:05:25 pm
Brencookie, I went to Everest Base Camp last November. Going back in 2014 :) And to go a mountaineering course in NZ next summer.
I think the high protein thing doesn't apply as much to women (or people in general who aren't burning heaps and heaps of calories through weights). As I say, meat has too many calories for me to eat so much of it relative to what I burn on a daily basis. My calorie intake is 1200- 1300cal per day if I want to lose 1/2 kg a week... carbs and protein fill that number pretty rapidly and I have to keep portions small. But men burn more in a day and therefore can afford to eat in that way a bit more.
But I'm totally happy to stand corrected on this one. I guess I just see a lot of men on those high protein diets and not many women. For me it's because I know my body wouldn't go so well with that diet, but it could work for other women.
That's actually so cool. EBC is definitely on my list hahaha.
Ohhhh okay - I thought you were referring to women not doing squats or deadlifts and I was like :O.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: hobbitle on January 05, 2014, 12:11:37 pm
Just on - this is true, but you have to make it true. If you think "sweet I'll just squat a weight and it will work my abs" - it probably won't work like that. Same for the deadlift, a lot of people won't fully engage their hamstrings/glutes but particularly their abs (or core). Sense is right, these exercises will be good, but it's your job to focus on keeping a really tight middle. (This is actually what I do, I just do front squats and dlifts and barely any direct ab work). I'd also recommend front squats with a tight tummy for your goal.
That said, if your goal is specifically visible abs, I would also do a bit of ab focussed exercises (and getting your bf% to <~10%
Adding to this, squats and deadlifts wont effectively stimulate what most people consider 'abs'. 'Abs' or the visible six pack you see are the rectus abdominis, squats and deadlifts stimulate the transverse abdominis in order to keep your torso upright, they do not stimulate the rectus abdominis. Although it is true to say they work your abdominals, they work the muscles that lie behind your 'six pack abs'. In order to stimulate the rectus abdominis you must perform exercises that involve spinal flexion (choose these carefully as many put excessive pressure on your lumbar spine). So, as Brencookie said, if you are looking for six pack abs put some focus into direct ab work, on top of your squats and deadlifts.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Only Cheating Yourself on January 05, 2014, 01:16:55 pm
People usually just wear runners to the gym right?
Usually…. Seen people come in thongs than been asked to leave. But you can wear what ever, people usually come in chucks etc. If your squatting i wouldn't recommend coming in chucks but if your just lifting for upper body you can wear just about any shoe minus thongs and work boots.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Only Cheating Yourself on January 05, 2014, 01:32:26 pm
I'm just reading some stuff on the internet and someone's saying:
"No, you should not lift in running shoes! They are spongy and can cause your foot to roll when squatting or deadlifting, and that would be BAD. You can always bring a different pair of shoes to the gym to run in. See Keetman's post again for what type of shoes are best suited for lifting."
I squat in running shoes and its fine! If you think its an issue, squat with with socks!
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 01:48:51 pm
I squat in runners, but mine don't have a very raised heel, and I'm not particularly inexperienced. I think runners are fine but if you want to be pedantic, flat shoes or bare feet would be good. So long as your runners aren't hugely built off from the ground it should be ok. To answer your question, I always wear runners to the gym, but I've seen people in chucks, vans, skate shoes, canvas slip ons.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: T-Infinite on January 05, 2014, 02:00:44 pm
I'm trying to do the opposite actually ;). My metabolism is so fast that I don't gain weight so I guess I want to know my calorie intake so I can go say 300 over so I can start gaining. been ~51 kg for so long now... Makes lifting difficult.
LOL! you're just like me... I've been sitting around 53kg for too long. I don't know if my metabolism is fast or slow, I don't know if this would make sense to you; I eat alot but I don't eat often. People say to eat every 2-3 hours, I just can't! hahaha! I just don't feel hungry. Does taking protein shakes help you gain weight? I eat healthy, just not every 2-3hours.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 02:29:12 pm
Protein doesn't directly help you put on weight. Protein assists in muscle recovery. Eg.. If you went Mon/Wed/Fri, and had a low protein diet, your muscles might not recover in time for you to hit the gym hard on Wed. It's the frequency with which a high protein diet allows you to train that assists you in putting on weight.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: DJA on January 05, 2014, 04:14:12 pm
LOL! you're just like me... I've been sitting around 53kg for too long. I don't know if my metabolism is fast or slow, I don't know if this would make sense to you; I eat alot but I don't eat often. People say to eat every 2-3 hours, I just can't! hahaha! I just don't feel hungry. Does taking protein shakes help you gain weight? I eat healthy, just not every 2-3hours.
How frustrating is it... haha And similarly, I just don't feel hungry except at legit mealtimes. Takes my willpower to actually go and put something in my mouth every 2 1/2 hours. You MUST up your calorie intake to gain weight.
No. Not directly. Protein helps with recovery as Brencookie put it. Helps build muscle along with a healthy diet.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: QuidProQuo on January 05, 2014, 06:29:41 pm
And increase your caloric intake by piling in the carbs, especially. You should look out for protein shakes that have a relatively high carb content, since the products advertised as being "high protein, low carb" are generally better when you're cutting, rather than bulking. USN Muscle Fuel STS has an almost-equal protein/carb ratio, AFAIK...
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Robert243 on January 05, 2014, 08:48:36 pm
And increase your caloric intake by piling in the carbs, especially. You should look out for protein shakes that have a relatively high carb content, since the products advertised as being "high protein, low carb" are generally better when you're cutting, rather than bulking. USN Muscle Fuel STS has an almost-equal protein/carb ratio, AFAIK...
Sorry , but i can't help but mention how bad protein shakes are for your health . They add who knows what in them , and in the end you don't really gain anything from them . You can get all sorts of side effects from them such as heart disease and even diabetes. Just thought i should state that out . I don't want to sound old fashioned you should stick to natural food , eat a lot of trail mix , nuts and meat . All are great for building muscle .
Been working out a bit this summer , does anyone have any advice on how do bench press higher , i don't know if its good for my health since i'm a bit young for it , but the highest i can do is around 50 .
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Irving4Prez on January 05, 2014, 10:10:43 pm
And also your not going to gain muscle from chemicals , you need to do it naturally , or else it wont work .
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 10:36:41 pm
Well, I put on 6 kilos in 4 weeks and I was using protein (and I work hard in the gym). Probably not that healthy, but saying they don't work in assisting muscle recovery is a bit of a stretch.
If you want to increase your bench, drop it down to 30 kilos and start doing 5x5 (5 reps for 5 sets), do your bench twice a week, and every time you bench put the weight put by 2.5kg-5kg (depending on if your gym has 1.25kg plates) - so one week you'll jump from 50 to 52.5 or 55. If you can do 5x5 of a weight, just move up weights.
There also might be a particular area of your muscles that's weak, and also depending on how you hold the bar. I mean, if you have weaker shoulders and you push the bar up and down between your throat and nipple area, you'll stop gains pretty quick. If you hold the bar over your nipples or just under them and have a bit of a wider grip, then you'll activate your chest a lot more. Think about where you're gripping the bar and where you're holding it in relation to your body. I'm pretty confident you'll have a particular muscle group letting you down (probs shoulders if you're a newbie)
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: itsdanny on January 05, 2014, 10:37:37 pm
http://www.proteinshaketruth.com/ I was actually reading an article online hear the other day about it . Thats why i'm not a such a big fan of them .And also your not going to gain muscle from chemicals , you need to do it naturally , or else it wont work .
And you believe the information in those kind of sources? Protein shakes are used by elite athletes and body-builders for quite a few decades now and of course you are going to benefit from them in terms of muscle gain. It's also generally consumed by Vegan athletes/bbs, take a look at Torre Washington and Billy Simmonds. However, of course attaining nutrients and protein from whole foods is far better than just chucking down huge amounts of dried and powdered protein supplements, albeit sometimes it is completely necessary. Please avoid making ungrounded statements in future.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: kensan on January 05, 2014, 10:45:02 pm
http://www.proteinshaketruth.com/ I was actually reading an article online hear the other day about it . Thats why i'm not a such a big fan of them .And also your not going to gain muscle from chemicals , you need to do it naturally , or else it wont work .
Protein shakes do work, it's just another source of protein. It's not a magic potion by any means, it's just a supplement that supplements an already solid diet. Sure you don't need them but most people buy them because they are very convenient.
And also with the benching, check out some powerlifting videos on youtube, lots of little techniques can help you increase your bench :P You might be a bit young for gymming powerlifter style? It's debated what age is safe, but yeah just make sure your form is spot on.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Robert243 on January 05, 2014, 10:51:22 pm
Haha i agree some do work , but just be cautious . A question to a few experienced gym guys and girls , how long does it take to get visible biceps . If you do push ups , sit ups , chin ups , and a few non heavy weights . My plan is to get them in two weeks from now do you think its possible guys . I know this ins't body building forum , but i'd like to here from people my age that's why i"m asking here .
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 10:55:39 pm
Technically your biceps are visible right now. Just grab 10-15 kilos and do "21s". 7 half reps up, 7 half reps down, 7 full reps.
P.S biceps are pointless unless you're a body builder.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: SunnyB on January 05, 2014, 10:58:54 pm
Haha this is my type of thread, just found this. I love the gym, love 21s and love 5x5.
21s are done with the barbell yeah?
How much do you curl?
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: QuidProQuo on January 05, 2014, 11:00:52 pm
I was pretty small at the end of Year 12. I actually lost about 3kgs because I didn't like to eat while studying (I found I just ate and didn't study!) and didn't really make room for long eating sessions. I've now regained that weight and put on a bit. But I've been training 3-4 times a week since we finished (5 weeks or so, now?) and I can see a good difference. Like, I don't quite have Ronnie Coleman arms, haha, but defs have padded out noticeably, so that ppl I often see have commented. Wait a bit more than 2 weeks. Don't expect to see something in a day, or you'll get impatient and your motivation might fizzle out. Also, make sure that when you lift, you take into consideration any body areas that have given you trouble previously. I was told not to do heavy chest training because I have a mild postural problem, and apparently bench press etc. can accentuate kyphosis by pulling the back muscles forward. Just a heads up :) Have fun!
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 11:04:02 pm
Yep 21s are with the barbell.
I don't isolate biceps at all :p. I really only do front squats, deadlifts, bench, cleans and barbell rows. I mix it up though.
QPQ - definitely can pull your muscles forward and give you that caveman look. DEADLIFT AND FROMT SQUAT MY MAN.
And yeah also - 2 weeks... Not happening. Consistency over a long period of time is what will see results. I'm kinda lazy with tracking gains. I've got 40 years to meet my goals (be Thor), so I'm not in any hurry.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: SunnyB on January 05, 2014, 11:05:30 pm
Yeah i thought so :)
How often do you go to the gym a week? I always hate working legs, i always tend to go for a run instead. Instead of doing extensions, squats, leg presses.
TBH everyday is arm day :)
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 11:08:05 pm
3-4 times a week. Mostly 3 times as I work etc. For me, everyday is leg day, no day is arm day :p
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: DJA on January 05, 2014, 11:11:04 pm
I've got 40 years to meet my goals (be Thor), so I'm not in any hurry.
Seems legit.
Could you define a 'half-rep' for a curl for my knowledge? never done one :P
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 11:15:52 pm
From full extension holding a barebell, curl halfway up your body, so your forearm and bicep make a right-angle. After doing seven, being the bar up to your shoulders (so do a full curl), then lower jr down halfway for the right-angle. Then just do seven full curls.
There's way too much bicep talk ITT.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: QuidProQuo on January 05, 2014, 11:21:41 pm
Demonstrated by the master himself, hehe :P Check 3:45. Just crossed my mind, why do bodybuilders rarely use a full range of motion? It is to increase the T.U.T or something...?
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 11:26:28 pm
I couldn't tell you, I'm not a big fan of body building so I don't look into it much :p
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Robert243 on January 05, 2014, 11:42:57 pm
Anyone like cardio ( tredmile , excercise bike , rowing ) ?
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 05, 2014, 11:46:26 pm
I like sprinting on the rowing machine to race other people, otherwise I find gym cardio tedious. Of rather run outside or box.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: kensan on January 06, 2014, 12:43:15 am
Haha i agree some do work , but just be cautious . A question to a few experienced gym guys and girls , how long does it take to get visible biceps . If you do push ups , sit ups , chin ups , and a few non heavy weights . My plan is to get them in two weeks from now do you think its possible guys . I know this ins't body building forum , but i'd like to here from people my age that's why i"m asking here .
Probs can't do in 2 weeks man, work hard for like 6 months and you would get good results. Takes years to get a sick physique.
Just crossed my mind, why do bodybuilders rarely use a full range of motion? It is to increase the T.U.T or something...?
Depends on the exercise I think. Like take DB shoulder press, they might not bother with the upper half of the motion because it works more triceps than shoulders so they only do the lower proportion. But yeah I've read about how it's better for TUT
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: abeybaby on January 06, 2014, 02:10:50 am
Demonstrated by the master himself, hehe :P Check 3:45. Just crossed my mind, why do bodybuilders rarely use a full range of motion? It is to increase the T.U.T or something...?
Not using full ROM is something only people with at least a decade of experience will use. Not using full ROM increases time under tension - at the top and bottom of an exercise, where joints are locked, there is no tension in muscles. Not using full ROM eliminates that. But please, for the love of god, use full rom for 10 years, then start looking into this.
Also, Bullet, protein shakes are totally fine. Most are just milk solids, which are in almost every mass produced item ever. Also, if every day is arm day now, you will kick yourself in 2 years. Don't fall into the same mistake as so many other people.
Also, bodybuilding is a totally separate sport to powerlifting. Bodybuilders don't care how much you bench, curl, squat or deadlift. They care about how you look on contest day. There is a reason that 'powerlifting form' exists. It allows you to cheat out of a few kilos on your lifts, so yes, you can lift more weight. But that's only because you're using more auxiliary muscles to support your lift. It's counterproductive for bodybuilding.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Special At Specialist on January 06, 2014, 02:58:35 am
Isn't bodybuilding the whole reason guys go to the gym? I mean, let's be realistic: you don't hear many guys saying "I go to the gym because I want to be healthy and reduce my risk of osteoporosis". They all sign up with the aim of: "I want to look attractive and have big muscles". This is particularly the case for guys in the 16-30 age group. They all just want to bulk up, grow big biceps, shoulder muscles, chest muscles, a 6-pack etc... don't they?
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 06, 2014, 10:28:53 am
Lol not in my case at least. I don't isolate biceps or my visible abs (probably out of laziness on the latter)... I go to gym because I love training and I want to increase the amount of cool stuff my body can do. If someone put a curse on me such that I would look the same for the rest of my life, I'd still be in the gym three times a week.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Irving4Prez on January 06, 2014, 10:37:22 am
You don't have to be a body builder to 'look attractive and have big muscles'. Generally people in the 16-18 age group just want to have a nice aesthetic physique so that they look good in singlets or at the beach. I only know of one 17 yr old who wants to become a body builder and already looks like a bear
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 06, 2014, 10:40:32 am
I think Spesh just meant that most guys aimed for hypertrophy. I don't think he was referring to contests/the profession.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Irving4Prez on January 06, 2014, 10:46:25 am
Haha, definitely overlooked his point then.
What is your guys shoulders and traps regime?
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 06, 2014, 10:48:23 am
Overhead press, bench press. ;)
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: abeybaby on January 06, 2014, 10:58:30 am
Side raises, DB shoulder press, rear raises, barbell military press (or front raises if feeling down), shrugs
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Irving4Prez on January 06, 2014, 11:11:02 am
Side raises, DB shoulder press, rear raises, barbell military press (or front raises if feeling down), shrugs
What's your range of motion for shrugs? I used to roll my shoulders but then got advised just to go up and down
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: abeybaby on January 06, 2014, 11:36:01 am
down and forward (scapula protracted) --> up and back (scapula retracted)
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 06, 2014, 11:37:50 am
They're a different type of shrug. If you hold them by to side and just try and touc your shoulder to your ear kinda thing (up and down), I call that "trap shrug". Rolling will activate a lot more of the upper back muscles. I used to roll forward in a big hunch, then inverse the movement and roll back with as much thoracic extension and 'chest pop' as possible. Just do both :p
Edit: what Abe said :p
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Robert243 on January 06, 2014, 11:57:19 am
]tried that ones definitely not a piece of cake ,that's all I can say . Anyone do any leg weights
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: abeybaby on January 06, 2014, 12:01:26 pm
The difference between bodybuilders and guys with muscle is the dedication. Bodybuilding is the only sport that requires a full 24 hours of your day - literally everything you do throughout the day is conducive to your goal - you don't get time off. you don't get a break, it's not okay if you just skip 1 meal, or just have a relaxed training session once in a while. Sorry, just that bodybuilding is a big passion of mine. It teaches you discipline and dedication, how to focus on a goal and give it everything you can give it.
And yes, I do leg weights. Legs are probably my favourite thing to train.
EDIT: I didn't take offence, you don't have to amend your post Bullet :P
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: DJA on January 06, 2014, 12:06:02 pm
the difference between body builders and generally guys with muscles , are that most body builders shave their legs, arms , chest
lol what a statement :P
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Robert243 on January 06, 2014, 12:11:36 pm
Haha didnt mean to be offensive there sorry , im just curious , however not all do , just some I know . And there's nothing wrong with it anyway . I'd also say another difference is the amount of food some intake.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: abeybaby on January 06, 2014, 12:14:00 pm
Haha didnt mean to be offensive there sorry , im just curious , however not all do , just some I know . And there's nothing wrong with it anyay . I'd also say another difference is the amount of food some intake.
it's okay, no offence taken :)
And yeah, hair removal is necessary for competition, but i mean that there are much larger differences between a competitive bodybuilder and a recreational gym goer.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Robert243 on January 06, 2014, 12:18:40 pm
Out of curiosity how many hours a day , should someone who wants to be a body builder put in .
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 06, 2014, 12:21:31 pm
The difference between bodybuilders and guys with muscle is the dedication. Bodybuilding is the only sport that requires a full 24 hours of your day - literally everything you do throughout the day is conducive to your goal - you don't get time off. you don't get a break, it's not okay if you just skip 1 meal, or just have a relaxed training session once in a while. Sorry, just that bodybuilding is a big passion of mine. It teaches you discipline and dedication, how to focus on a goal and give it everything you can give it.
And yes, I do leg weights. Legs are probably my favourite thing to train.
Absolutely. This is why I have crazy respect for (legit) bodybuilders rather than the bicep monkeys in the gym.
Same. Squats three times a week. Yeeeee.
I notice some new guys in this thread so I'll say this to you now: you'll be tempted to do bicep curls, tricep extensions, lots of bench press and a fuck load of volume (because that's what you w been shown in movies etc). You might train legs for four weeks, then only once a fortnight once you realise that leg presses hurt, then you'll conveniently forget to ever do it again. You might also think that eight weeks is enough to make a transformation or that results should come quickly. this is bullshit. Results - real results - come slowly, and with consistency. You don't need to make huge sacrifices, you just need to go to the gym even if you have a headache, even if it's been a big day, even if a customer yelled at you at work. Also - on the bicep curls and bench press: this is an awesome way to looking really messed up really fast. You guys might think "man I'm so skinny. I'll do curls all day and be the hottest thing around". (Don't worry, I've been there, too. When I first started doing push-ups I thought my biceps would get huge). This thought pattern is a recipe for problems down the track. In my very personal opinion you new guys should avoid curls for a while. $10 says when you guys start doing assisted pull ups, you'll feel it all in your forearms and biceps instead of your lats/back. Start on a basic strength training program. Do squad, deadlifts, bench press, barbell rows, overhead presses, kettle bell swings, box jumps, sandbag carries (or things filled with water, some gyms have at least some type of unstable weight). This way, if you ever want to look like an absolute unit you'll have an amazing foundation and a big potential for building a great body. If you start doing only isolation exercises right now, you'll just be weaker and you'll probably end up over developing already overdeveloped muscles. Right now, train in a way that will improve your posture, that will let you breathe better. I guarantee you, almost all women (and men, if you're a girl or gay guy) will be far more attracted to you if you walk into a room with a straight back than with huge arms and a rounded back. I know right now biceps sound brilliant - but do you how sexy a good back is? I would probably turn for a sexy looking back.
Tl;dr - thank me in five years.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: abeybaby on January 06, 2014, 12:22:46 pm
Out of curiosity how many hours a day , should someone who wants to be a body builder put in .
about 24.
its only like, 45 mins/day of actual training, but then there's the cardio, the eating, the cooking, the shopping, the sleeping (which is actually important), the tanning, the hair removal and it all takes up time. You often end up just eating in lectures, or walking out of practical classes to eat and then come back.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: DJA on January 06, 2014, 12:33:01 pm
Tbh it took me a while to come out of the 'curl' mentality into a recognition of the importance of whole body fitness/strength. I'm glad I did though.
Right now, train in a way that will improve your posture, that will let you breathe better. I guarantee you, almost all women (and men, if you're a girl or gay guy) will be far more attracted to you if you walk into a room with a straight back than with huge arms and a rounded back. I know right now biceps sound brilliant - but do you how sexy a good back is? I would probably turn for a sexy looking back.
Posture is huge too. Try standing, rolling your shoulders in a clockwise rotation and stop when your shoulders are back so if the the top of the shoulders is 12, stop at 3. That's healthy. If you walk around stooped, turnoff. I've only just come to the realization my posture is awful.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: jello7 on January 06, 2014, 01:34:01 pm
Also, bodybuilding is a totally separate sport to powerlifting. Bodybuilders don't care how much you bench, curl, squat or deadlift. They care about how you look on contest day. There is a reason that 'powerlifting form' exists. It allows you to cheat out of a few kilos on your lifts, so yes, you can lift more weight. But that's only because you're using more auxiliary muscles to support your lift. It's counterproductive for bodybuilding.
This is just simply wrong and sounds incredibly naive.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: abeybaby on January 06, 2014, 03:58:19 pm
I'm out at the moment, but tonight I'll get through the post, there was quite a few things wrong with what you said
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: QuidProQuo on January 06, 2014, 06:00:17 pm
Is anyone else here a fan of concentration curls? I find that they give a better pump than straight curls. But maybe that's because I'm pausing at the point of greatest contraction. Also, speaking of training back, does anyone know any good lower back strength exercises that can improve posture? I've been doing the single pull and seated row for upper, and it helps a lot...But lower back posture is kind of a pain in the *** to fix :P
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 06, 2014, 07:00:52 pm
Is anyone else here a fan of concentration curls? I find that they give a better pump than straight curls. But maybe that's because I'm pausing at the point of greatest contraction. Also, speaking of training back, does anyone know any good lower back strength exercises that can improve posture? I've been doing the single pull and seated row for upper, and it helps a lot...But lower back posture is kind of a pain in the *** to fix :P
Proper deadlifts.
Could also lie down on your stomach on a bench (with your hips a little off the forward of the bench), bend forward and then back up. Like doing a sit up off a bench but in reverse.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Robert243 on January 06, 2014, 07:05:10 pm
How long before going to the gym do you guys eat? And how much?
There's a session with a trainer at 6:30pm I want to go to tomorrow, but I usually have dinner at that exact time lol.
Should I eat an entire dinner at like 5pm or eat something small then have a huge meal after?
Eat something small like a sandwich or some fruit , and take a snack with you to the gym , such as nuts or something . Its not good to eat a meal before hand , it can cause a stitch .
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Ballerina on January 06, 2014, 07:07:09 pm
walked to change channel on television today
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Irving4Prez on January 06, 2014, 08:14:19 pm
Usually I have a banana and some nuts before heading off to the gym. Prevents cramps and is a decent source of energy
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Robert243 on January 06, 2014, 09:27:09 pm
Also, bodybuilding is a totally separate sport to powerlifting.
I’m not sure what you were getting at here so correct if I’m reading too much into what you stated, but the two sports are very similar. They both focus on progressive overload (for bodybuilding at least as a beginner and intermediate), they obviously both use very similar forms of resistance (albeit exercise selection may vary depending on the lifter), diet is integral to success in both sports, rep ranges and volume is also similar the majority of the time for each sport (powerlifters do ‘peak’ their lifts come competition, ie. Handle loads closer to maximal effort. Also, programming in powerlifting does vary a lot so some lifters will focus there entire regime around heavy lifting). You are correct in the essence of powerlifting is to move maximal weight and that of bodybuilding is to create an aesthetically pleasing physique, but this does not mean that they are totally separate sports. Simply put, in general it would not be obvious to someone in the gym as to whether or not someone in training for bodybuilding or powerlifting or both. Finally, many of the great legends in bodybuilding started out in powerlifting and vice versa. I personally would recommend a strength based program to a beginner bodybuilder as to allow them to create a strong foundation in to which to build their body from.
Bodybuilders don't care how much you bench, curl, squat or deadlift.
Powerlifters don’t focus on the curl either, they focus on the other lifts because they are an expression of basic human movements common to everyday life, which are an atleast somewhat accurate representation of a lifters strength. This is just an inherent difference between the two sports, not necessarily good or bad.
There is a reason that 'powerlifting form' exists. It allows you to cheat out of a few kilos on your lifts, so yes, you can lift more weight.
Powerlifting form does not exist to cheat out a few kilos. I don’t know how you have even come to this conclusion. First of all, powerlifters lift in a way such that the heaviest load can be moved most efficiently and safely. I’ll take the bench press as an example, as the form of the squat and deadlift between both sports is identical. The powerlifting bench press simply put encourages scapula retraction, a natural arch in the back and feet to be planted firmly on the floor. The scapulae are retracted so that the shoulder is put into a safer position to move a load to and from the chest. The natural arch means that the scapulae can be more effectively retracted and encourages the lifter to flare the latissimus dorsi and create a stable base to push the weight from, the feet are planted in order to encourage this stable base in which total body tightness can be achieved (again allowing the lifter to safely perform a lift as maximal effort). Secondly, whereas bodybuilders are competing on physique, powerlifters are competing on lifts, again just an inherent difference neither good nor bad. This means that cheating a few kilos will get the lifter’s lift disqualified, (ie. Lifting your glutes of the bench during the bench press, hitching the deadlift by resting on your knees or not hitting an appropriate depth on the squat). The rules on which they base disqualified lifts are to my knowledge put in place for two reasons, one to create consistency as to what is considered an acceptable lift and secondly so that lifters can lift in the safest manner (ie. Squatting to a depth too high puts excessive strain on the knee joint, hitching a deadlift puts excessive strain on the lumbar spine).
Again, this just isn’t true. As I said before I would actually recommend a bodybuilder to start on an appropriately chosen strength based program. Take a look a Layne Norton’s PHAT program that is precisely a mix of bodybuilding and powerlifting. Layne Norton is a very successful natural bodybuilder who sees how the two sports are very complimentary.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: ninwa on January 07, 2014, 09:07:04 am
do you not have a remote control, how can you live like this
serious post: if there are any girls here who want to do more than just cardio and are intimidated by all the guys in this thread I recommend http://www.reddit.com/r/xxfitness as a resource :)
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Irving4Prez on January 07, 2014, 02:33:23 pm
Anyone have any tips on how to feel less tired after a gym session? I usually go after school from 3.30 - 4.30 (sometimes 5) and when I get back I want to sleep. Resting for 30 minutes isn't enough and if anything, I feel more tired after a 30 minute nap
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 07, 2014, 03:14:12 pm
Anyone have any tips on how to feel less tired after a gym session? I usually go after school from 3.30 - 4.30 (sometimes 5) and when I get back I want to sleep. Resting for 30 minutes isn't enough and if anything, I feel more tired after a 30 minute nap
More carbs and more sleep. Go low-GI. Pasta (y)
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: jello7 on January 07, 2014, 03:18:27 pm
Brencookie you seem to have a great perspective on lifting, how long have you been going to gym? What are your current goals and what would you say you are training for?
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 07, 2014, 03:32:58 pm
Thanks :) Hmmm. It's kinda hard to say. I've always been involved with sport so as a 14 year old wanting to win a tennis match I'd google nutrition stuff and see if I should water load the night before maches, wen I should eat carbs and all that funny "how do I win" kid stuff. In 2009 I started Mma and also trained with my boss who used to be a Muay Thai fighter, and that's when I started to dabble with diffferent sorts of weights and where I generated a strength/power based focus to improve fighting functionality. I've been in and out of backyard gyms and casual gym-going for a bit, but I started going properly in June 2013 :). I actually don't set that many goals, which is kinda bad. I train for strength and overall functionality so my only goal is "lift more" or "be better at this movement". Like, I realised I didn't have the flexibility for the front squat, so I immediately ditched back squats and tomorrow I'm attempting 5x5 of 50kg front squat (woo!) I also just love training.
What about you, jello?
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: SunnyB on January 07, 2014, 03:34:10 pm
Brencookie, what would you recommend as fat burning excersises. I know that compound excersises fit this, but also high repS? anything else
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 07, 2014, 03:49:27 pm
Thanks :) Hmmm. It's kinda hard to say. I've always been involved with sport so as a 14 year old wanting to win a tennis match I'd google nutrition stuff and see if I should water load the night before maches, wen I should eat carbs and all that funny "how do I win" kid stuff. In 2009 I started Mma and also trained with my boss who used to be a Muay Thai fighter, and that's when I started to dabble with diffferent sorts of weights and where I generated a strength/power based focus to improve fighting functionality. I've been in and out of backyard gyms and casual gym-going for a bit, but I started going properly in June 2013 :). I actually don't set that many goals, which is kinda bad. I train for strength and overall functionality so my only goal is "lift more" or "be better at this movement". Like, I realised I didn't have the flexibility for the front squat, so I immediately ditched back squats and tomorrow I'm attempting 5x5 of 50kg front squat (woo!) I also just love training.
What about you, jello?
Yeah your knowledge of the topics brought up in this thread speak of years of experience. Basically I started out in bodybuilding and enjoyed it for 2 years but I later moved to strength based training, I have been doing that for the last 2 years. Right now my goals are to hit a 185kg back squat (currently 145), a 130kg bench press (currently 110) and a 200kg+ deadlift (currently 160) before the year's end. I guess they do sound like powerlifting goals but I don't think I'd label myself as such. I still remain lean and train for a mix of bodybuilding and strength.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 07, 2014, 04:01:17 pm
Wow those are some fantastic weights and goals (and an appropriate time frame!) I'd also love to hit a 200kg deadlift (personal favourite exercise)
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: DJA on January 07, 2014, 04:45:51 pm
Yeah your knowledge of the topics brought up in this thread speak of years of experience. Basically I started out in bodybuilding and enjoyed it for 2 years but I later moved to strength based training, I have been doing that for the last 2 years. Right now my goals are to hit a 185kg back squat (currently 145), a 130kg bench press (currently 110) and a 200kg+ deadlift (currently 160) before the year's end. I guess they do sound like powerlifting goals but I don't think I'd label myself as such. I still remain lean and train for a mix of bodybuilding and strength.
What a tank :) Some inspiration.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: BigAl on January 07, 2014, 06:20:51 pm
Go to gym, lose 300g, come home, gain 3kg I gave up haha :)
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: abeybaby on January 07, 2014, 08:05:55 pm
Jello, you raised lots of points, so i'll try my best to go through them all one by one:
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rep ranges and volume is also similar the majority of the time for each sport
Bodybuilding typically involves reps that can go up to the 20s, but powerlifting rarely involves anything above 12 reps. A friend of mine recently transitioned from bodybuilding to powerlifting, he tells me his workouts have gone from 45 mins to well over 2 hours, mainly because of all the extra core work and increased rest times.
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Simply put, in general it would not be obvious to someone in the gym as to whether or not someone in training for bodybuilding or powerlifting or both
I very much disagree with this - a bodybuilder can put 50 kg on a bar and make it feel like 100kg, because the emphasis is on muscles contracting. A powerlifter can put 150kg on the bar and bench like its nothing. Powerlifters take a lot more rest between sets - all in all, i think it's pretty easy to tell if someone's bodybuilding or powerlifting.
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Finally, many of the great legends in bodybuilding started out in powerlifting and vice versa
This isn't because powerlifting provides a solid base for bodybuilding - this is because bodybuilding didn't really exist until the 1960s, and didn't really take off till the 70s. The last competitive bodybuilder in my memory to swap from powerlifting to bodybuilder is Ronnie Coleman, and he hasn't been competitive for the better part of the last decade. AFAIK, no one on the current olympia stage used to be a powerlifter.
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Powerlifters don’t focus on the curl either
yes of course, I just put it in there to illustrate the same point - bodybuilding isn't about increased weight, it's about increased muscle contraction.
Quote
This is just an inherent difference between the two sports, not necessarily good or bad.
completely agree.
Quote
Powerlifting form does not exist to cheat out a few kilos. I don’t know how you have even come to this conclusion. First of all, powerlifters lift in a way such that the heaviest load can be moved most efficiently and safely. I’ll take the bench press as an example, as the form of the squat and deadlift between both sports is identical. The powerlifting bench press simply put encourages scapula retraction, a natural arch in the back and feet to be planted firmly on the floor. The scapulae are retracted so that the shoulder is put into a safer position to move a load to and from the chest. The natural arch means that the scapulae can be more effectively retracted and encourages the lifter to flare the latissimus dorsi and create a stable base to push the weight from, the feet are planted in order to encourage this stable base in which total body tightness can be achieved (again allowing the lifter to safely perform a lift as maximal effort).
maybe I should have phrased myself more clearly - I don't mean that powerlifting is cheating out extra kilos. I mean that powerlifting is *all* about the numbers. You win or lose depending on how much you can bench/deadlift/squat. It doesnt matter if your chest is taking the load in your bench, if the bar goes down, hits your chest, and goes up, you win. And accordingly, the form for powerlfting reflects that, the aim is to put as much weight on the bar as possible. Like you said earlier, it's not a good or bad thing, but it's *completely* (just completely) different to bodybuilding.
Quote
As I said before I would actually recommend a bodybuilder to start on an appropriately chosen strength based program. Take a look a Layne Norton’s PHAT program that is precisely a mix of bodybuilding and powerlifting. Layne Norton is a very successful natural bodybuilder who sees how the two sports are very complimentary.
if someone is looking only to be the best bodybuilder they can be, I wouldnt recommend doing something like SS or strong lifts. If you're just someone looking to get started in the gym, then yeah, sure, those programs will work great for you.
And yeah, Layne is pretty cool. I think he's coming to FitX this year...
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: jello7 on January 07, 2014, 10:08:25 pm
Again a lot of point are raised so I will also address each one by one :).
Bodybuilding typically involves reps that can go up to the 20s, but powerlifting rarely involves anything above 12 reps. A friend of mine recently transitioned from bodybuilding to powerlifting, he tells me his workouts have gone from 45 mins to well over 2 hours, mainly because of all the extra core work and increased rest times.
This just doesn’t make sense. The time in which it takes someone to complete a workout, as you know, is completely dependent upon programming. When I made the transition from bodybuilding to powerlifting my workouts dramatically decreased in duration. This was because as a beginner in the sport, I only focused on the 4 compound movements (bench, squat, deadlift and overhead press) perhaps with a couple of accessory movements to compliment these lifts. My volume was 3 sets of 5 reps, I essentially started on starting strength. This is what many beginner powerlifters do. However, I am not going to make the mistake of generalizing my experience to the entire sport’s population, this is wrong. As I said before workout duration is dependent entirely upon programming. Programming is different for all lifters in both sports, it depends upon experience, weaknesses/strengths, goals, extraneous variables, etc. I can name powerlifting programs which can be time consuming, for example some of the Russian/Bulgarian regimes (Shieko and Smolov), conversely I can name some which take very little time, 5/3/1 and starting strength. I did bodybuilding for two years and have friends who still bodybuild and I know there were routines that took a long time (german volume training on multiple exercises, even Arnold, Franco, Platz were famous for grueling workouts lasting for hours) and ones that took very little time (body part splits with low volume). To say workout time is stereotypical to a sport is just wrong, because programming isn’t stereotypical to a sport and I believe this is where you’re making a mistake.
I very much disagree with this - a bodybuilder can put 50 kg on a bar and make it feel like 100kg, because the emphasis is on muscles contracting. A powerlifter can put 150kg on the bar and bench like its nothing. Powerlifters take a lot more rest between sets - all in all, i think it's pretty easy to tell if someone's bodybuilding or powerlifting.
Yes, what you initially stated is correct. A bodybuilder focuses on things like muscular contraction of individual muscles, T.U.T and so forth but you are not rebutting what I said, I never disagreed on the fact that bodybuilders focus on physique over lifts (just an inherent difference). And yes powerlifters do take longer rest times, but this is usually within most programs on one or two lifts for the day. For the rest of the workout they are taking the same rest periods a conventional bodybuilder would advocate for such an exercise. I feel this where the disagreement lies, that you have adopted an incorrect view of what powerlifting is. I’ll post a couple of videos which may clarify the problem, these videos are from elite level powerlifters some of whom were once bodybuilders.
This isn't because powerlifting provides a solid base for bodybuilding - this is because bodybuilding didn't really exist until the 1960s, and didn't really take off till the 70s. The last competitive bodybuilder in my memory to swap from powerlifting to bodybuilder is Ronnie Coleman, and he hasn't been competitive for the better part of the last decade. AFAIK, no one on the current olympia stage used to be a powerlifter.
Again I must disagree upon this. When I was interested in bodybuilding I knew of various bodybuilders who had background in both, if you do want me to dig around the net I can cite someone. However, a very significant proportion of a problem within this argument alludes to aspects of the steroid argument which I don’t think is allowed to be discussed on this forum.
if someone is looking only to be the best bodybuilder they can be, I wouldnt recommend doing something like SS or strong lifts. If you're just someone looking to get started in the gym, then yeah, sure, those programs will work great for you.
Here I disagree again, perhaps if you outline what you would consider a great start for an aspiring bodybuilder and I did the same we could discuss this more thoroughly. I do however think the resultant programs would be surprisingly similar.
Thanks for the conversation though abeybaby, it is great to talk to someone as dedicated to the sport as you appear to be about such topics :). I look forward to your responses.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Blondie21 on January 09, 2014, 11:52:55 pm
Hey guys quick question - is it better to have breakfast before or after a morning run? Google has given me mixed responses though I normally have my breakfast after.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: BigAl on January 09, 2014, 11:58:39 pm
Hey guys quick question - is it better to have breakfast before or after a morning run? Google has given me mixed responses though I normally have my breakfast after.
I think it's better if you get your stomach half full, then go for a run. I won't recommend going with a full stomach because you most likely feel like throwing up. At least that's my experience.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Starlight on January 10, 2014, 01:37:42 am
Hey guys quick question - is it better to have breakfast before or after a morning run? Google has given me mixed responses though I normally have my breakfast after.
Everyone's different so just go with what you're used to. I tend to do what BigAl has mentioned, something small like maybe a muesli bar or a protein bar. Certainly avoid milk just before a run!
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: kensan on January 10, 2014, 02:43:25 am
Do you guys recommend protein shakes and just supplements in general?
My mates are telling me it'd help with my constant soreness but I thought the soreness was the muscle being torn so that it'd repair itself and in the process, make itself stronger.
If you have the money and are serious about it then sure. But only if you have a solid diet and are sleeping enough. The reason you have constant soreness might be because of lack of sleep or certain foods, or maybe over-training? Also how bad is the soreness? You might be the type of person that gets DOMS after every workout.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: jello7 on January 10, 2014, 03:12:34 am
Do you guys recommend protein shakes and just supplements in general?
My mates are telling me it'd help with my constant soreness but I thought the soreness was the muscle being torn so that it'd repair itself and in the process, make itself stronger.
Protein shakes are really only needed if you are finding you can't get enough protein in from your 'whole food sources', this may be due to large protein requirements (some individuals consume 250g+ per day) or you lack the time to prepare enough meals to reach protein requirements. As a rule of thumb, someone who attends gym regularly should aim to consume around one gram of protein for every pound of body weight.
As for other supplements, the majority are more or less worthless. This website takes a scientific approach to analysing the effectiveness of ingredients within most supplements, http://examine.com/. A good youtube channel which takes a similar approach I believe is http://www.youtube.com/user/BestPriceNutrition/. However, the company is indeed a supplement retailer, it doesn't appear to affect their content but it is something to bear in mind.
Personally, the only supplements that I think are of any value are: Whey protein (if you can't get enough protein from your food) Creatine (creapure branded / monohydrate) Fish oil (mainly to prevent subtle joint inflammation) A pre-workout (only if you're feeling you are too tired to workout).
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: CH3ezEC4KE on January 10, 2014, 08:05:02 am
Hey guys quick question - is it better to have breakfast before or after a morning run? Google has given me mixed responses though I normally have my breakfast after.
Hey blondie21, it really depends on how hard you run and how long you run. I used to eat a bit before a run but was getting digestive issues through my long run. Now I do a 20km+ long run each week without eating before and I'm mostly fine. However if you are doing a race it is better to eat something but try to have it around an hour before the event. My doctor has run marathons including Boston and she told me not eating before a run is probablybetterfor most people
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: abeybaby on January 10, 2014, 08:17:51 pm
Sorry it took me soooooo long to reply Jello, I've been incredibly busy recently.
Quote
To say workout time is stereotypical to a sport is just wrong, because programming isn’t stereotypical to a sport and I believe this is where you’re making a mistake.
Hmmm, interesting. Okay, to me, the orthodox way to do it would have boybuilding being intense and quick, and powerlifting being a bit slower with more rest.
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I feel this where the disagreement lies, that you have adopted an incorrect view of what powerlifting is. I’ll post a couple of videos which may clarify the problem, these videos are from elite level powerlifters some of whom were once bodybuilders.
Those videos were interesting. I didn't know that powerlifters sometimes (regularly?) went for higher reps.
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Here I disagree again, perhaps if you outline what you would consider a great start for an aspiring bodybuilder and I did the same we could discuss this more thoroughly. I do however think the resultant programs would be surprisingly similar.
If i got to start again, and rewrite my beginning, I would focus on bench, squats, deads and OHP, but also add in lots and lots of other exercises, such as: Back: Lat pulldowns/pull ups, DB rows, seated rows
Sorry it took me soooooo long to reply Jello, I've been incredibly busy recently. Hmmm, interesting. Okay, to me, the orthodox way to do it would have boybuilding being intense and quick, and powerlifting being a bit slower with more rest. Those videos were interesting. I didn't know that powerlifters sometimes (regularly?) went for higher reps.
No, most of the powerlifters I know of would devote (as a guess) 90% of their time to reps at or above 8 with some at or above 20.
If i got to start again, and rewrite my beginning, I would focus on bench, squats, deads and OHP, but also add in lots and lots of other exercises, such as: Back: Lat pulldowns/pull ups, DB rows, seated rows
Guys im turning 14, turning 15 on the 18th , im wondering does lifting heavy weights at my age , stop me from growing .
Disclaimer: I don't even lift but lel
Most probably, it won't. If it did, it would most likely be a result of a combination of injury and/or insufficient nutrition. So just make sure you're using correct technique, and eating a balanced diet :)
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: BigAl on January 12, 2014, 02:53:11 pm
Guys im turning 14, turning 15 on the 18th , im wondering does lifting heavy weights at my age , stop me from growing .
You could easily injure yourself. I remember I was preparing myself for military highschool in my home country. I had to run 400m in 80 seconds and also do lots of push ups in a limited time. After the first week of training, I could barely walk. I was 14 at that time. You need to focus on your growth now. Gain some weight.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: grannysmith on January 12, 2014, 03:05:44 pm
Haha I think he wants to gain weight in the form of muscle :p
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Only Cheating Yourself on January 12, 2014, 03:09:47 pm
Isn't bodybuilding the whole reason guys go to the gym? I mean, let's be realistic: you don't hear many guys saying "I go to the gym because I want to be healthy and reduce my risk of osteoporosis". They all sign up with the aim of: "I want to look attractive and have big muscles". This is particularly the case for guys in the 16-30 age group. They all just want to bulk up, grow big biceps, shoulder muscles, chest muscles, a 6-pack etc... don't they?
No, some do some don't. I like working hard, some people hate pushing their body to the edge while others don't. You don't hear people say I'm studying because i love studying, they study because they want a good job. See what i did there?
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 16, 2014, 06:42:13 pm
I think that's what most people do BA, just split their body parts. If I ever did regular bodybuilding type stuff, protein or not, if I worked a muscle, that muscle better be sore for a good five days lol. There's nothing wrong with soreness (in fact, you want to be sore, it means you've stressed your muscles enough).
Taking WPC will probably assist with the soreness though.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: hobbitle on January 16, 2014, 06:55:01 pm
As a side note... I find it so bizarre all the wonderful things that science/medicine has discovered and allowed us to do over the last decades, yet there is still no solid evidence for ANYTHING that legitimately relieves DOMS (muscle soreness after exercise). Some people have theories but literally nothing has been discovered to actually work.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 16, 2014, 06:58:31 pm
As a side note... I find it so bizarre all the wonderful things that science/medicine has discovered and allowed us to do over the last decades, yet there is still no solid evidence for ANYTHING that legitimately relieves DOMS (muscle soreness after exercise). Some people have theories but literally nothing has been discovered to actually work.
More exercise works 80% of the time all the time.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Only Cheating Yourself on January 16, 2014, 07:02:22 pm
As a side note... I find it so bizarre all the wonderful things that science/medicine has discovered and allowed us to do over the last decades, yet there is still no solid evidence for ANYTHING that legitimately relieves DOMS (muscle soreness after exercise). Some people have theories but literally nothing has been discovered to actually work.
I doubt there ever ail, thats the whole point of working out, you tear new tissue…. Thats how you grow muscle therefore suppose to feel sore, it's like saying you strained your hamstring… Your hamstring will be sore for a week or so but you can help aid the recovery by massaging the muscle etc.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: abeybaby on January 16, 2014, 07:29:42 pm
As a side note... I find it so bizarre all the wonderful things that science/medicine has discovered and allowed us to do over the last decades, yet there is still no solid evidence for ANYTHING that legitimately relieves DOMS (muscle soreness after exercise). Some people have theories but literally nothing has been discovered to actually work.
Glutamine+BCAAs
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Dedicated on January 16, 2014, 07:37:08 pm
Foam rolling can help, I personally don't do it though but might implement it soon. I think its also something the body gets use to as now I squat 5-6 times a week and my legs don't get sore. Also for the cheapest supplements venom protein is the best http://venomprotein.com.au/catalog/index.php
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 16, 2014, 08:09:23 pm
Out of interest... how do your triceps feel at the moment?
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 16, 2014, 08:19:03 pm
What's an incline deadlift? :S
Pretty sure your goal is to look aesthetic(?) -- anyway if so, just make sure you don't overwork your biceps in relation to your other muscles.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 16, 2014, 08:35:19 pm
Oh okay hahaha. Are you doing deadlifts and squats?
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 16, 2014, 09:49:42 pm
Fair enough. The weights don't matter too much, so long as you keep challenging your body :). IMO you should do deadlifts, depending on your definition of aesthetic.
For example, let's say your shirt's on, at a party. Walk into a room with awesome posture, with your shirt hugging your body a bit because of big thick back muscles. Much aesthetic. Shirt off, at the beach: big thick back muscles to match big thick front muscles, or big thick front muscles with a flat back and hunched shoulders. Will also ensure your legs don't get imbalanced (as hamstrings are more of a support in your squat, so deads complement them perfectly) **It'll also boost your testosterone because it's the biggest area on your body, which will make growing muscle on other areas of your body easier.
In sum: everyone ever should do deadlifts because they're the greatest and backs are sexy.
**I've never actually checked this with a journal article, so it could be bullshit, but I think it's true? If someone could confirm that would be sick.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Only Cheating Yourself on January 16, 2014, 10:19:35 pm
Fair enough. The weights don't matter too much, so long as you keep challenging your body :). IMO you should do deadlifts, depending on your definition of aesthetic.
For example, let's say your shirt's on, at a party. Walk into a room with awesome posture, with your shirt hugging your body a bit because of big thick back muscles. Much aesthetic. Shirt off, at the beach: big thick back muscles to match big thick front muscles, or big thick front muscles with a flat back and hunched shoulders. Will also ensure your legs don't get imbalanced (as hamstrings are more of a support in your squat, so deads complement them perfectly) **It'll also boost your testosterone because it's the biggest area on your body, which will make growing muscle on other areas of your body easier.
In sum: everyone ever should do deadlifts because they're the greatest and backs are sexy.
**I've never actually checked this with a journal article, so it could be bullshit, but I think it's true? If someone could confirm that would be sick.
Deadlifts are compound lift so work numerous body parts and yes do work the back, but when i see people do deadlifts their definitely not working their back, firstly i see guys deadlifting too much which is only going to injure their back if you want to work your back on deadlifts you need to use full range of motion. There are probably better back exercises in my opinion then the deadlift. Wide grip pull ups barbell rows/ dumbbell rows
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 17, 2014, 12:08:09 am
Yeah anyone putting a deadlift into their workout (which should be everyone) needs to focus extra special on getting it good form. To be honest, there's so much bullshit in the fitness industry and so many people have so many different ways of doing things, but unless you're coming up to a bodybuilding competition, deadlifts have to be the best back exercise hands down (when done properly). Do them properly, and there isn't a muscle in your back that isn't worked. Also will work your hamstrings and, if done properly, your glutes - which will more than likely be imbalanced and be causing you niggles in some area of your body.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Sergy01 on January 17, 2014, 12:13:41 am
How do you properly dead lift? I've only tried it once and felt uncoordinated.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 17, 2014, 12:22:51 am
I will look on YouTube for you.
I'd recommend doing it with your bodyweight. You'll feel it in all the right places in your back as soon as you do it properly, even without a bar.
Basically bend over, put your butt out and up, until you feel tension in the hamstrings. You want that tension in the last bit of the movement. Push the lower half of your back in until you feel tension in your lower lats (this is what almost everyone does wrong. They don't engage the lower lats and just lift by moving their hips/spine up and down), keep your shoulder blades back (your thoracic spine extended), your chin tucked a bit so your spine is straight (not looking forward), then just lift the bar off the floor keeping it close to your body and thrusting your hips forward. I also contract my glutes as I thrust my hips. I'm not sure if other people do that because it's not really necessary but I like it. I'll find a video.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: jello7 on January 17, 2014, 03:50:03 am
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: jacknthebeanstalk on January 17, 2014, 09:52:35 am
this guy has helped me immensely.
Most noobs will arch their back while dead lifting. Try and keep it straight through out the whole range of motion.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Robert243 on January 17, 2014, 05:59:58 pm
guys does weight lifting under the age of 16 stunt your growth , i've heard views from both sides but i think i need a few from teens who did it before they were 16 .
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: juliacarina on January 17, 2014, 08:52:21 pm
Strength training, increase protein obviously and decrease carb/fat. Increasing muscle will help you burn fat anyway, not need to just starve yourself...that doesn't work anyway because of leptin!! When you decrease the fat in your body you do not decrease fat cells therefore smaller fat cells=less leptin which means you don't get signals when you are full. Therefore you must strength and aerobic train to decrease ghrelin hormone (hunger levels) and increase peptide YY (satiety) to be able to lose fat and at the same time you win because you're also gaining muscle. Losing fat is hard, keeping it off is harder. Get muscle and do it the easy way.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: juliacarina on January 17, 2014, 08:59:15 pm
guys does weight lifting under the age of 16 stunt your growth , i've heard views from both sides but i think i need a few from teens who did it before they were 16 .
Pretty sure it does. Friends of mine were elite gymnasts they didn't get their "time of month" until they were 17 which was extremely late compared to the rest of us plus they are so short and the rest of their family isn't. Another friend of mine appears to have stunted her growth as well as me, we both didn't develop "hips" like the rest of our friends (I had amenorrhea after excessive exercise as a younger girl and she was a competitive gymnast until 16). All the gymnasts I know are short....I feel like that explains something because they were children when they started...they weren't just good at gym because they were short.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: saradom136 on January 17, 2014, 09:35:23 pm
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: DJA on January 18, 2014, 06:54:52 pm
I just found out that my school is providing a gym instructor for our school gym once a week for free for this year. :D I can now aspire to work out how to deadlift properly because last year I didn’t deadlift as I was worried I was going to injure myself with poor form.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: brenden on January 18, 2014, 10:16:36 pm
I just found out that my school is providing a gym instructor for our school gym once a week for free for this year. :D I can now aspire to work out how to deadlift properly because last year I didn’t deadlift as I was worried I was going to injure myself with poor form.
Ask what his qualifications are and see what his background his before you trust what he says lol.
Title: Re: Gym thread (2014)
Post by: Sense on January 18, 2014, 10:59:12 pm
guys does weight lifting under the age of 16 stunt your growth , i've heard views from both sides but i think i need a few from teens who did it before they were 16 .
NO. Don't listen to this, it's a complete myth. It does the exact opposite it promotes growth. Any experienced GP will tell you this as well.