ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: Edward Elric on January 11, 2014, 10:35:16 pm
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If it is do you recommend dropping further for it? I'm also doing this year 6 subjects, is that also recommended? Any advice regarding those Questions will be much appreciated. I regret not picking up specialist in yr 11 because only now do I realize that it is a prerequisite for some engineering courses, and I'm also looking for a challenge, something which further does not provide. Is it too much work without doing a 1/2, IMO having knowledge from methods 1/2 will suffice to help me understand some concepts from units 3/4. What do you guys think?
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It's technically possible, but it depends on whether or not your school will let you do it.
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It's definitely possible; my school doesn't even offer GMA and last year's Specialist class did respectably well.
Did you do any 3/4s in year 11?
IMHO, if you know you're a strong math student, and especially if you're interested in engineering, I'd highly recommend Specialist over Further.
Just my couple of cents :)
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It's definitely possible; my school doesn't even offer GMA and last year's Specialist class did respectably well.
Did you do any 3/4s in year 11?
IMHO, if you know you're a strong math student, and especially if you're interested in engineering, I'd highly recommend Specialist over Further.
Just my couple of cents :)
No unfortunately I did not, as my school would not allow me to. So I have to cram 6 subjects into a year Lol. I dont know if adding spesh to my already heavy workload is a good idea, chem+phy+meth+eng+Jap . So atm im weighing up whether i should do spesh (as it can help my meth and phy) or to just stick with further.
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If it is do you recommend dropping further for it? I'm also doing this year 6 subjects, is that also recommended? Any advice regarding those Questions will be much appreciated. I regret not picking up specialist in yr 11 because only now do I realize that it is a prerequisite for some engineering courses, and I'm also looking for a challenge, something which further does not provide. Is it too much work without doing a 1/2, IMO having knowledge from methods 1/2 will suffice to help me understand some concepts from units 3/4. What do you guys think?
It is certainly possible, but there is always the possibility of you being significantly disadvantaged due to it.
Specialist is certainly a big step up from methods and further. I do know one guy in my year level who's doing specialist in year 12 without gma this year and he is bound to get a 45+, 50 even but he is of extraordinary maths talent.
A good idea since it's the summer holidays is just to read over the gma course. Can you understand it? If so, completing the work would help you in 3/4 significantly
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No unfortunately I did not, as my school would not allow me to. So I have to cram 6 subjects into a year Lol. I dont know if adding spesh to my already heavy workload is a good idea, chem+phy+meth+eng+Jap . So atm im weighing up whether i should do spesh (as it can help my meth and phy) or to just stick with further.
I wouldn't say it's a good idea given your situation. Remember, at the end of the day it's marks and prerequisites that count. You want to get the most marks out of your ability and be able to meet the prerequisites for your course. It will most likely be especially difficult for you considering you're not doing GMA and having a tough workload.
And just in case it hasn't been pointed out: do not think that you can jump into spesh without GMA. Even if it means you study it by yourself in summer holidays or whatever, DO NOT miss out on GMA. I'm telling you because I wanted to be a smart-arse, tried jumping straight into spesh and failed :S
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I wouldn't say it's a good idea given your situation. Remember, at the end of the day it's marks and prerequisites that count. You want to get the most marks out of your ability and be able to meet the prerequisites for your course. It will most likely be especially difficult for you considering you're not doing GMA and having a tough workload.
And just in case it hasn't been pointed out: do not think that you can jump into spesh without GMA. Even if it means you study it by yourself in summer holidays or whatever, DO NOT miss out on GMA. I'm telling you because I wanted to be a smart-arse, tried jumping straight into spesh and failed :S
Sorry there seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this thread, so your saying it pretty much is overkill to do spesh 3/4 with general advanced? I need some sort of final verdict, so i can make my decision soon, as there isn't much time before school starts. As for further, I think it is the same amount of workload as for spesh, as you have to hone your skills to the point where you ace each and every practice exam whereas spesh, you can get away with losing a few marks and get the same ss. ImO
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Sorry there seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on this thread, so your saying it pretty much is overkill to do spesh 3/4 with general advanced? I need some sort of final verdict, so i can make my decision soon, as there isn't much time before school starts. As for further, I think it is the same amount of workload as for spesh, as you have to hone your skills to the point where you ace each and every practice exam whereas spesh, you can get away with losing a few marks and get the same ss. ImO
you just compared further....with spesh...well there is that saying 'a D in spesh is a B in methods and an A in further. Anyway, don't know why I said that but my advice is....well first of all In your case the workload for spesh will be nothing like the workload for further!, I say this because in further you have topics such as 'the core' which is all about box plots, stem plots, regression lines, residuals etc and 3 different modules with are not as nearly as complicated as the math in Spesh. You could essentially finish the Core and 1 module over the summer and then over the next couple of months finish the remaining modules and that would leave you with about half a year to do practice exams, however............there is no way you can do that with Spesh! Especially if you have not previously done GMA. In terms of workload I don't think the two can be compared but comparing the study score scaling is entirely different. It is so easy to lose marks in further and hence get a lower than expected study score (mainly because the examiners are jerks and try to trick you) but this doesn't happen in Spesh, its a lot easier to do better in spesh than further (due to scaling) though. arrg!
Anyway personally I don't think doing spesh without GMA is a good idea. But entirely it depends on what you plan on doing post year 12. If you plan on going into medicine, health sciences, science in general in I don't recommend choosing spesh mainly because you would hardly use it in these disciplines however if you choose to go into engineering or the like then definitely choose spesh over further math as you will learn math related subjects that are on specialist math level if not greater in Uni.
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you just compared further....with spesh...well there is that saying 'a D in spesh is a B in methods and an A in further. Anyway, don't know why I said that but my advice is....well first of all In your case the workload for spesh will be nothing like the workload for further!, I say this because in further you have topics such as 'the core' which is all about box plots, stem plots, regression lines, residuals etc and 3 different modules with are not as nearly as complicated as the math in Spesh. You could essentially finish the Core and 1 module over the summer and then over the next couple of months finish the remaining modules and that would leave you with about half a year to do practice exams, however............there is no way you can do that with Spesh! Especially if you have not previously done GMA. In terms of workload I don't think the two can be compared but comparing the study score scaling is entirely different. It is so easy to lose marks in further and hence get a lower than expected study score (mainly because the examiners are jerks and try to trick you) but this doesn't happen in Spesh, its a lot easier to do better in spesh than further (due to scaling) though. arrg!
Anyway personally I don't think doing spesh without GMA is a good idea. But entirely it depends on what you plan on doing post year 12. If you plan on going into medicine, health sciences, science in general in I don't recommend choosing spesh mainly because you would hardly use it in these disciplines however if you choose to go into engineering or the like then definitely choose spesh over further math as you will learn math related subjects that are on specialist math level if not greater in Uni.
Wow, thats the response i needed to read. I am interested in both engineering and the medical field, but I'm leaning more so into becoming a
dr than an engineer. And I also like how you mentioned that if i did choose to pursue an engineering degree they will teach the same level of maths at Uni. Thank you so much, now I am starting to think that I'm stupid for asking this Q, given that i completely skipped spesh 1/2. You are a life saver, thank you so much!!! :)
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If your school doesn't offer GMA, you'll find that Spesh will be fine - the course and textbook itself can be taken as a standalone course which explains all the knowledge you need really. If your school does offer GMA, then you may find, depending on your teacher, that a faster pace will be taken with assumed knowledge for GMA. You might want to talk to your teacher and maybe catch up with a few GMA things in that case, but it's not a huge hurdle to overcome.
Generally I'd recommend doing spesh if you enjoy maths and want to do the subject. Also agreed with Sheo, if you intend on doing more mathematics at uni, then taking spesh is a smart idea. The content of VCE maths doesn't really scratch beyond the surface of what you'll learn at uni. You can get away with taking some kind of first year class which will usually be a specialist equivalent aimed at people with a methods background. My view would be why spend a semester on that when you could be moving onto slightly more interesting maths straight away in uni.
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True story:
I knew a guy who didn't do GMA in year 11 & he got a raw 49 in spesh.
Of course, that comes with hard work, but it's not iMPOSSIBLE.
I would recommend just jumping into the spesh 3&4 textbook because it has everything you need to know, whereas for the GMA textbook, there are actually things you learn which are not assessed in the 3&4 course.
But definitely, you can work through that over the holidays/ get a tutor & yes, worked solutions would be helpful.
In my opinion, I would choose spesh>further anytime.
Why?
It's easier to get a scaled 40/50 in spesh than in further.
In further, you get scrutinised and traps are set everywhere & it's so easy to screw up in the exam if you're not careful.
For spesh however, I felt like 70%++ of it were (basic) textbook questions....
& they don't really trick you in spesh because they acknowledge that it's already hard to grasp the concepts..
Idk think about this.
If you are a very very very careful person, then okay, you can go for further.
If you enjoy maths/are considering engineering, then you should go for spesh.
But ultimately, doing spesh alongside with methods will definitely benefit methods.
Whilst you might be churning papers after papers for spesh & doing close to none for methods, you can still perform well in methods.
Because besides probability, spesh does overlap with methods...
Good luck!
Even though it's gonna be a tough year for you but prioritise well & have good time management :)!
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I really would like to emphasise that taking the spesh equivalent of Uni Maths is ONE little subject. It's seriously no big deal. I'm sure it's possible for you to do Spesh if you work super hard, but you are taking six 3/4s this year. You already have Methods and heaps of other science so not taking Spesh is not going to impact you if you pursue science/engineering pretty much AT ALL and could save you a lot of stress. The first maths subject you take at Uni will be the Spesh equivalent and then it's done.
If you had already done a 3/4 in Year 11 then id say go for it but to me it looks like you could be increasing your stress levels and workload immensely with not that much gain.
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I really would like to emphasise that taking the spesh equivalent of Uni Maths is ONE little subject. It's seriously no big deal. I'm sure it's possible for you to do Spesh if you work super hard, but you are taking six 3/4s this year. You already have Methods and heaps of other science so not taking Spesh is not going to impact you if you pursue science/engineering pretty much AT ALL and could save you a lot of stress. The first maths subject you take at Uni will be the Spesh equivalent and then it's done.
If you had already done a 3/4 in Year 11 then id say go for it but to me it looks like you could be increasing your stress levels and workload immensely with not that much gain.
I completely agree, i would be heavily disadvantaged of i decided to pick up spesh now, as my peers have all done general maths B and i already have some troublesome subjects on top of which i have to study the UMAT. Spesh will only add to my mounting stress, so thanks for your advice and to everyone else who commented.
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why not? I got 47 without knowing there is unit1&2.
Why not u?
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why not? I got 47 without knowing there is unit1&2.
Why not u?
actually for a few reasons: such as I've already got a heavy workload(6 subjects), my cohort already have an advantage in the subject(having already done 1/2 gen), My school may not allow me etc... The list goes on... But thats amazing you got 47 without doing 1/2, an inspiration to many students who are in a similar position as myself.
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I would certainly not recommend that you jump straight into spesh without any prior consideration. It is correct that some schools don't even do GMA, however they do another kind of class OR further excel their methods students instead. So it is still "equivalent". Furthermore, the pain, worry and stress it would cause you is SO not worth it, as you will probably get average marks and at the end of the day it will most likely go into your bottom 5th or 6th subject and only 10% mark will be taken, and at most you'll get a few are points difference... Which you will certainly not even need considering your other subjects and how well they scale up (provided you do work well and aren't a failing student lol)
FURTHERMORE... Spesh isn't necessarily a prereq of ANY engineering course that I know of... You must either have physics OR specialist, you don't HAVE to have both. And considering you already take physics, you'll be fine :-)
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I would certainly not recommend that you jump straight into spesh without any prior consideration. It is correct that some schools don't even do GMA, however they do another kind of class OR further excel their methods students instead. So it is still "equivalent". Furthermore, the pain, worry and stress it would cause you is SO not worth it, as you will probably get average marks and at the end of the day it will most likely go into your bottom 5th or 6th subject and only 10% mark will be taken, and at most you'll get a few are points difference... Which you will certainly not even need considering your other subjects and how well they scale up (provided you do work well and aren't a failing student lol)
FURTHERMORE... Spesh isn't necessarily a prereq of ANY engineering course that I know of... You must either have physics OR specialist, you don't HAVE to have both. And considering you already take physics, you'll be fine :-)
Thankyou, the more reassurance i get the better, thanks for your support and everyone else as well. I wont be doing spesh in 2014. Hope your studies go well for you next year :)
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school always says that you can't do this or you can't do that. Screw it!!!!
Give it a shot. Let's say you try it for 1 month. If it goes well, stick with it. Otherwise, you still have chance to change your subject without missing too much.
Good Luck!
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FURTHERMORE... Spesh isn't necessarily a prereq of ANY engineering course that I know of... You must either have physics OR specialist, you don't HAVE to have both. And considering you already take physics, you'll be fine :-)
but if you havent done spesh in highschool, you'll have to make it up by taking subjects that teach the material at uni while those who have done spesh will be able to go straight on to more difficult (and more interesting) math.
I definitely think its possible to do spesh (and most other 3/4 subjects) without having taken the 1/2 units.
Remember that although the concepts in further are easy to grasp and you probably won't need to invest a large amount of time into learning them, if you want to do well in the subject the amount of effort you need to put in increases dramatically. If you want to get in the 40s in further after scaling, you need to know the course quite well. Whereas if youre just average in spesh, a 30 raw will scale to above 40.
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Hi,
I'm currently a year 12 student doing Bio/Chem/Physics/Methods/English, and I really want to get into medicine, but am worried my low English marks will pull down my ATAR, and because I'm doing well in Methods, I really want to pick up Specialist Maths. The issue is, I chose not to do it in Year 11 because I at the moment didn't realise how advantageous it would be for me and because I assumed it would be too difficult. But I've heard it is possible to pick up Specialists in Year 12 without Units 1 and 2... Is that true? And how do we pick it up??
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Hi,
I'm currently a year 12 student doing Bio/Chem/Physics/Methods/English, and I really want to get into medicine, but am worried my low English marks will pull down my ATAR, and because I'm doing well in Methods, I really want to pick up Specialist Maths. The issue is, I chose not to do it in Year 11 because I at the moment didn't realise how advantageous it would be for me and because I assumed it would be too difficult. But I've heard it is possible to pick up Specialists in Year 12 without Units 1 and 2... Is that true? And how do we pick it up??
Specalist 3/4 covers 4 "Main topics" IMO
The preresiquite algebra which is complex numbers, ciruclar functions and some general stuff. Both of these are covered in the 1/2 but can be picked up more easily in the 3/4, especially the circular functions stuff. For this just doing the 3/4 chapters out of cambridge will be enough.
The next area is calculus. This is the largest area by far and the most vital thing to everything in the whole course.
There is no calculus in 1/2.
The next is mechanics and vectors, there is some of this in the 1/2 but once again it is covered very well in the 3/4 textbook and can just be learned from there. There is some BIG overlap with physics here (momentum, force triangles etc). The 1/2 does a poor job explaining this area if you ask me and some of it is just omitted. Calculus is needed for this area.
The last is statistics. The 1/2 touches on this, but doing methods would also work well to help it and once again the 1/2 doesn't cover it very well because this AOS involves Calculus, which isn't in the 1/2...seeing a patern here?
If you want to pick it up, then going through the 3/4 textbook THOUROUGLY will be more than sufficent, alot of the chap 1 stuff from last year like never shows up on the exam anyway. It isn't an easy subject, and it may be a tad harder for you but honestly picking it up as a 3/4 isn't too much of a challenge compared to how the course is anyway, GL!
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Specalist 3/4 covers 4 "Main topics" IMO
The preresiquite algebra which is complex numbers, ciruclar functions and some general stuff. Both of these are covered in the 1/2 but can be picked up more easily in the 3/4, especially the circular functions stuff. For this just doing the 3/4 chapters out of cambridge will be enough.
The next area is calculus. This is the largest area by far and the most vital thing to everything in the whole course.
There is no calculus in 1/2.
The next is mechanics and vectors, there is some of this in the 1/2 but once again it is covered very well in the 3/4 textbook and can just be learned from there. There is some BIG overlap with physics here (momentum, force triangles etc). The 1/2 does a poor job explaining this area if you ask me and some of it is just omitted. Calculus is needed for this area.
The last is statistics. The 1/2 touches on this, but doing methods would also work well to help it and once again the 1/2 doesn't cover it very well because this AOS involves Calculus, which isn't in the 1/2...seeing a patern here?
If you want to pick it up, then going through the 3/4 textbook THOUROUGLY will be more than sufficent, alot of the chap 1 stuff from last year like never shows up on the exam anyway. It isn't an easy subject, and it may be a tad harder for you but honestly picking it up as a 3/4 isn't too much of a challenge compared to how the course is anyway, GL!
Thank you!!
I really hope my school lets me pick it up though... that's my main concern. Because my school does spesh through Distance Ed, so it's up to BSDE, whether they will let me start Specialist Maths in year 12 without units 1 and 2.