ATAR Notes: Forum

VCE Stuff => VCE English Studies => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE English Language => Topic started by: Reus on May 20, 2014, 08:15:18 pm

Title: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on May 20, 2014, 08:15:18 pm
Well since the last active thread was 2 days ago... Thought I'd make this instead.
Question myself:

How does antithesis increase formality? (for analytical commentary)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: PhoenixFire on May 24, 2014, 09:21:11 pm
As I understand it (it might be wrong), antithesis pairs contrasting ideas to draw attention to them. They create connections between the ideas which adds clarity and balance to the text overall. So it's a way to build coherence and cohesion :)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on May 24, 2014, 10:08:17 pm
As I understand it (it might be wrong), antithesis pairs contrasting ideas to draw attention to them. They create connections between the ideas which adds clarity and balance to the text overall. So it's a way to build coherence and cohesion :)

Haha yes it's correct, got it already :p
Thanks though!
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on June 22, 2014, 01:29:28 pm
What is meant by sociolect?
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: ealam2 on June 24, 2014, 10:00:20 pm
What is meant by sociolect?

Sociolect is a dialect used by a particular social class or group. For example, Standard British English now used to be the English of those in the upper classes in London especially.

Hope that helps a bit!
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on July 21, 2014, 05:45:11 pm
Does anyone recommend the VCE English Language Exam Guide by Kirsten Fox? Been thinking about buying it for a while and can get it for like $10 atm so considering it!
Opinions?
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on July 21, 2014, 07:31:44 pm
Does anyone recommend the VCE English Language Exam Guide by Kirsten Fox? Been thinking about buying it for a while and can get it for like $10 atm so considering it!
Opinions?

Oh if there was one book I would recommend, it would be it. Get it ASAP!
It's actually great, sooooooo helpful! It gives you a heap load of A+'s essay samples, plans, short answer questions with fully answered solutions. Seriously recommend it!  ;D
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on July 21, 2014, 07:43:32 pm
Oh if there was one book I would recommend, it would be it. Get it ASAP!
It's actually great, sooooooo helpful! It gives you a heap load of A+'s essay samples, plans, short answer questions with fully answered solutions. Seriously recommend it!  ;D

Ooh thanks!
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: shlblk on July 25, 2014, 07:52:06 pm
Hey guys,

I'm currently in year 10 choosing my subjects for year 11. I'm not a huge fan of english and I've heard that english language is tailored to science/math students. I happen to be one such science/math student and am currently averaging 81 in my year 10 english class. Do you think something like english language would be suited to me or should i just stick with regular english?

Thanks.

Edit: Don't worry, just saw the sticky guide at the top of this thread, I will pursue ELang.
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on July 25, 2014, 08:28:45 pm
Hey guys,

I'm currently in year 10 choosing my subjects for year 11. I'm not a huge fan of english and I've heard that english language is tailored to science/math students. I happen to be one such science/math student and am currently averaging 81 in my year 10 english class. Do you think something like english language would be suited to me or should i just stick with regular english?

Thanks.

Edit: Don't worry, just saw the sticky guide at the top of this thread, I will pursue ELang.
Haha, well good luck  ;D
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: AngelWings on July 26, 2014, 02:40:24 pm
This seems like the most appropriate place to put forward my own question.

I'm about to research an ethnolect for my English Language homework, but I just wanted to clarify whether Indian English is an ethnolect. Due to the British colonisation back a couple of centuries ago, does Indian English place under the category of a variety of English or an ethnolect?
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on July 26, 2014, 03:17:35 pm
Well it's more so of the Indian English spoken here, in Australia. As the task is to then compare the chosen ethnolect with SAE.
I would say it does fall under a variety of English however in this context also an ethnolect. Only because an ethnolect is a form of language/English that possesses both Standard English and non-English features.

I think you should be fine with using Indian English as an ethnolect :) 
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Stressedyear11here on July 28, 2014, 04:50:21 pm
Tips for writing great 11/10 English language analysis??

Thanks
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on July 28, 2014, 05:08:49 pm
Tips for writing great 11/10 English language analysis??

Thanks
By this, do you mean analytical commentary?
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Stressedyear11here on July 28, 2014, 09:59:43 pm
By this, do you mean analytical commentary?

Oops, I just realised this is h 3/4 English language thread. Anyways,
Analysis, so the one where you talk about syntax, semantics, morphology when you are given a discourse. I'm currently doing analysis on a piece from Middle English (and it has a translation into modern English) at school (in year 11)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on July 28, 2014, 10:06:55 pm
Oops, I just realised this is h 3/4 English language thread. Anyways,
Analysis, so the one where you talk about syntax, semantics, morphology when you are given a discourse. I'm currently doing analysis on a piece from Middle English (and it has a translation into modern English) at school (in year 11)
Just talk about the different subsystems in different paragraphs. It's quite literally that easy. Once you've finished your analysis that you're completing at the moment, feel free to send it if you want feedback :)

I wrote this a while back referring to analytical commentaries (similar to analysis)

Well I always structure it as follows:

First paragraph:
  • Introduce the discorse, writer/speaker, context etc.
  • State the mode
  • Comment on the primary and secondary functions of the text
  • Mention the semantic field, register, and formality

Second-fourth paragraph:
  • Discuss the different subsystems utilised throughout the text, structured in their own paragraphs.

Last paragraph:
  • This should be your basic discourse analysis
  • Coherence, including inference, ordering, formatting, consistency and conventions
  • Cohesion, including information flow, deictics, collocation,etc
  • Referencing which include anaphoric and cataphoric
  • If written, try to fit in a sentence on the paragraphing or structure of the text

ALWAYS remember to relate back to the function the writer/speaker is seeking to achieve.

Hope this helps!  :)
Good luck  :)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on July 29, 2014, 04:52:23 pm
One of my SACs is to conduct an idiolect interview and then write up a report in class.

Does anyone have any questions I could ask my subject related to accent, dialect, sociolect etc.? Thankyou
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on July 29, 2014, 05:13:21 pm
One of my SACs is to conduct an idiolect interview and then write up a report in class.

Does anyone have any questions I could ask my subject related to accent, dialect, sociolect etc.? Thankyou
I did that SAC 2 weeks ago haha. I literally asked about the subjects ethnicity and the reason for migrating to Australia.
In doing so, it also helps you with attitudes and profile of the user paragraph :)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on July 29, 2014, 05:18:10 pm
I did that SAC 2 weeks ago haha. I literally asked about the subjects ethnicity and the reason for migrating to Australia.
In doing so, it also helps you with attitudes and profile of the user paragraph :)

My subject hasn't migrated so I can't ask some of those haha.

How did you structure your response? We have a few weeks to conduct research (with other SACs beforehand) but my teacher hasn't given us any info on the actual write-up.
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on July 29, 2014, 05:29:38 pm
My subject hasn't migrated so I can't ask some of those haha.
Haha wouldn't that make it harder to identify distinct features of the idiolect/ethnolect?

How did you structure your response? We have a few weeks to conduct research (with other SACs beforehand) but my teacher hasn't given us any info on the actual write-up.

Intro: Typical intro on SAE and different varieties with mentions to your subjects idiolect/ethnolect

P1: The subject and everything about him/her. Context, age, race etc. Later blab about the identity contracted in contemporary Aust and how this is maintained.

P2: Analytical on the interview
      - Separate paragraphs on the different subsystems and how the idiolect/ethnolect differs or even is similar to SAE.
      - These paragraphs don't need to be long, sometimes can't be. (features of a particular subsystem may be minimal in your transcript hence short paragraph)

Px: The attitudes toward this idiolect/ethnolect in Australia, the future of the idiolect/ethnolect.

Conclusion: You know this :P

Note: this structure may differ towards your expected response, this is just how I did mine/got told to do it. :)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on July 29, 2014, 05:39:46 pm
Haha wouldn't that make it harder to identify distinct features of the idiolect/ethnolect?

Note: this structure may differ towards your expected response, this is just how I did mine/got told to do it. :)

Very helpful, thanks!

Ours is more of an idiolect one, rather than ethnolect, but we can talk about any features they use; not neccessarlily deviating from Standard English.

But thanks heaps! How'd you go on it?
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on July 29, 2014, 05:44:34 pm
Very helpful, thanks!

Ours is more of an idiolect one, rather than ethnolect, but we can talk about any features they use; not neccessarlily deviating from Standard English.

But thanks heaps! How'd you go on it?
I didn't get to finish it as I wanted unfortunately (rushed the last paragraph due to 5 minute warning haha) still unmarked so God knows how I did! :P
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on July 30, 2014, 05:25:15 pm
Can anyone give me ideas on what we could collect this unit's journals/folios on?
Last semester I collected formal and informal, but not sure for this semester? Do we get it on Australian English, ethnolects and stuff?
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Stressedyear11here on July 30, 2014, 07:38:14 pm
Just talk about the different subsystems in different paragraphs. It's quite literally that easy. Once you've finished your analysis that you're completing at the moment, feel free to send it if you want feedback :)

I wrote this a while back referring to analytical commentaries (similar to analysis)


I can definitley tell that is at a year 12 standard. I handed my analysis to my teacher the other day and she said it was better than my first (these are all practice ones), which is good to hear,
But  now my main concern is picking out the context in a modern English text (which isn't as modern as today's, if you understand). I'm practicing now with Geoffery Chaucer's tales. There's the original Middle English version and then the Modern English version. I'm not quite sure how to tackle the context part .. :(

Thanks.
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on July 30, 2014, 08:18:36 pm
Can anyone give me ideas on what we could collect this unit's journals/folios on?
Last semester I collected formal and informal, but not sure for this semester? Do we get it on Australian English, ethnolects and stuff?
Collect texts where different varieties of English are apparent or where the different accents are noticeable (SAE)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Stressedyear11here on July 31, 2014, 08:09:51 pm
Does anyone know the average study score for English Language? And is it really hard to get a 40 study score?

Cheers
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on August 03, 2014, 12:32:37 pm
Okay so I've started writing practice extended responses for the exam and I'm kind of confused as to what to include.
I understand you have to include what it tells you to, whether it be non flunecy features, turn taking, topic management, lexis etc. but I don't really understand what specifically.
I'm fine with identifying features and explaining their functions, but reading past responses don't sound like mine.
Specifically, in terms of explaining 'why' i guess.

Like, in the one I'm doing now, the sample response identifies the features I am, but it then goes on to explain more.
For example 'Faine on the other hand manages the topic, interjecting occasionally to provoke or ask a question, and whilst he is not following a script, he does have the advantage of having thought about the questions prior to the conversation.'

^That's the kind of stuff I'm not including. I know practice will help though.

Also, for section C, the essay, I don't feel that confident in terms of having info and evidence to support my point. Where do you guys get your quotes from? I know I should be looking at the news and stuff everyday to identify stuff but i'm kind of lost.
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on August 03, 2014, 12:52:46 pm
Like, in the one I'm doing now, the sample response identifies the features I am, but it then goes on to explain more.
For example 'Faine on the other hand manages the topic, interjecting occasionally to provoke or ask a question, and whilst he is not following a script, he does have the advantage of having thought about the questions prior to the conversation.'

Just remember the function is always dependent on the context. Get your head around the situation behind the transcript and what the writer/speaker/s are trying to achieve. Ask yourself 'why?' Why is he/she managing the topic? Why is he/she using non fluency features? Why did he/she say "...."? Always connect to the function.

Just practice :)

Also, for section C, the essay, I don't feel that confident in terms of having info and evidence to support my point. Where do you guys get your quotes from? I know I should be looking at the news and stuff everyday to identify stuff but i'm kind of lost.
Message me & I'll send you a document full of quotes that relate to VCE English Language, however you still need to find contemporary quotes and examples that 'stand out'. I know it's cliche, but examiners like quotes and examples are are unique and new.

No one said English Language was easy! Just keep practicing :)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on August 03, 2014, 01:29:39 pm
You're a legend, thankyou!
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: AngelWings on August 07, 2014, 06:43:03 pm
Does anyone know the average study score for English Language? And is it really hard to get a 40 study score?

Cheers

Depending on the person and their strengths, any subject can go either way. It also depends on the cohort you do it with. With some practice comes perfection, so just keep at it. A 40 is reasonable if you work really hard at English Language and have some skills. According to last year's statistics, it was a little more difficult than usual, if that's helpful. (Google search "VCE English Language Statistics" and it should come up.)

Message me & I'll send you a document full of quotes that relate to VCE English Language, however you still need to find contemporary quotes and examples that 'stand out'. I know it's cliche, but examiners like quotes and examples are are unique and new.

May I be a little annoying and borrow it off you too?  ::)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on August 07, 2014, 06:45:41 pm
May I be a little annoying and borrow it off you too?  ::)

They were awesome quotes! I sent a couple to him as well so they should be on his list :)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on August 07, 2014, 07:11:26 pm
May I be a little annoying and borrow it off you too?  ::)
Haha sure, will do when I have time! Just message me so I don't forget :)

They were awesome quotes! I sent a couple to him as well so they should be on his list :)
Yup! They are :P
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on August 09, 2014, 06:00:44 pm
So, are the journals/folios/articles that we do as SACS basically the extended response?
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on August 17, 2014, 02:28:23 pm
Is Kate Burridge a descriptivist? I'm doing a research task on her and I need to include whether she's a prescriptivist or descriptivst. I have a couple of her quotes but there surprisingly isn't much out there on her!

Can anyone help?
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on August 17, 2014, 03:03:33 pm
Is Kate Burridge a descriptivist? I'm doing a research task on her and I need to include whether she's a prescriptivist or descriptivst. I have a couple of her quotes but there surprisingly isn't much out there on her!

Can anyone help?
I'd say she's a descriptivist! there isn't anything that hints it in a black and white manner, but she does embrace language change.
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on August 17, 2014, 04:01:21 pm
I'd say she's a descriptivist! there isn't anything that hints it in a black and white manner, but she does embrace language change.
Yeah I just kind of inferred she was; especially from her comment about wanting the possessive apostrophe dropped from a while ago :P
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Joseph41 on August 19, 2014, 02:44:18 pm
Is Kate Burridge a descriptivist? I'm doing a research task on her and I need to include whether she's a prescriptivist or descriptivst. I have a couple of her quotes but there surprisingly isn't much out there on her!

Can anyone help?

Without having a definitive answer for you, I would suggest that she is a descriptivist. She certainly embraces language change, as Reus said, and focuses more on describing language use rather than appealing to how she thinks language should or ought be used.

I have a tute with Kate today, coincidentally. She is, without doubt, the best lecturer I've ever had.
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: ealam2 on August 19, 2014, 09:01:17 pm
Without having a definitive answer for you, I would suggest that she is a descriptivist. She certainly embraces language change, as Reus said, and focuses more on describing language use rather than appealing to how she thinks language should or ought be used.

I have a tute with Kate today, coincidentally. She is, without doubt, the best lecturer I've ever had.

Wow! You actually know Kate Burridge! Seems surreal to me but really cool! :)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on August 19, 2014, 09:09:26 pm
Wish I could see one of her lectures in person!
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on August 19, 2014, 10:59:53 pm
I have a tute with Kate today, coincidentally. She is, without doubt, the best lecturer I've ever had.

Wot
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on September 10, 2014, 07:29:35 pm
In the essay are we supposed to talk about subsystems or is that more for the analytic commentary? Thanks :)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on September 10, 2014, 07:56:11 pm
In the essay are we supposed to talk about subsystems or is that more for the analytic commentary? Thanks :)
Both should incorporate linguistic discussion but mainly analytical is were subsystems should be apparent
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Bluegirl on September 10, 2014, 07:58:27 pm
Both should incorporate linguistic discussion but mainly analytical is were subsystems should be apparent

Yeah that makes sense, thanks Reus :)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on November 07, 2014, 08:03:00 pm
I've been looking at assessor reports and they generally say this "However, this student accepted the essay topic’s contention and did not challenge it" despite the question asking if you agreed or not. It feels like VCAA wants you to go against the prompt too.

Is this essential to obtain full marks? As the question solely asks if you agree or not. So a rebuttal is not needed to fully answer the question.

Thanks.
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: psyxwar on November 07, 2014, 08:26:56 pm
I've been looking at assessor reports and they generally say this "However, this student accepted the essay topic’s contention and did not challenge it" despite the question asking if you agreed or not. It feels like VCAA wants you to go against the prompt too.

Is this essential to obtain full marks? As the question solely asks if you agree or not. So a rebuttal is not needed to fully answer the question.

Thanks.
Nah it's not necessary, you can have a sophisticated discussion without necessarily challenging the contention. But a lot of the time essays that just go "oh yeah i agree" are one dimensional and don't really attack the question as well as they could; for example 09's question "Why use standard english all the time?" is a lot more limiting if you only considered the merits of SE and not where it falls short. But assessors will understand its a 45 minute essay and its not going to be *that* detailed and cover every single possible point of discussion. If you address the topic well, it doesn't matter if you don't challenge the topic. You will be marked based on how good your writing is.
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on November 07, 2014, 08:43:51 pm
Nah it's not necessary, you can have a sophisticated discussion without necessarily challenging the contention. But a lot of the time essays that just go "oh yeah i agree" are one dimensional and don't really attack the question as well as they could; for example 09's question "Why use standard english all the time?" is a lot more limiting if you only considered the merits of SE and not where it falls short. But assessors will understand its a 45 minute essay and its not going to be *that* detailed and cover every single possible point of discussion. If you address the topic well, it doesn't matter if you don't challenge the topic. You will be marked based on how good your writing is.
Thanks! As it is a 45 minute essay, do you think 3 paragraphs suffices the response?
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: AngelWings on January 24, 2015, 03:22:02 pm
This has come from: English Language essay submission and marking
can someone give me some definitions for these, with possibly an example too?

Phrases:
Clauses:
Phrases:
Sentences:

Phrases: just any old string of words put together that doesn't quite conform to the rules of clauses or sentences. These are usually smaller pieces put together.
Clauses: a string of words that includes a subject (typically a noun) and a predicate (typically a verb), but unlike a sentence, doesn't contain the whole idea.
Sentences: includes a noun and verb, also usually something else (e.g. adjective, adverb, etc.), depending on what type they are. It usually includes a whole idea with some meaning or added information (i.e. old information + new information).

For anyone else reading this, please feel free to correct me.
A better understanding could be achieved if you read these sites (They have examples too.), because I suck at explaining the differences between them. These have been arranged by helpfulness for your benefit, the first site being the most helpful.
Clause vs. Phrase. Sentence
Sentences, Clauses and Phrases
Grammmar 101
Latin - Info on Grammar (Yeah okay, this one's actually for HSC Latin, but it still has helpful definitions and English examples.)
A Google Answers Question
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: Reus on January 24, 2015, 07:16:38 pm
Zues you don't really need to know definitions... however it'll be good if you could identify either when writing an analytical commentary as you specifically analyse the particular line by saying "evidently the clause present in line 44 reiterates Smith's patriotism supporting the speech's function of appealing to an Australian audience..."
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: chocolate.cake.1 on February 11, 2015, 07:35:23 pm
Hi,
I've been reading through a few transcripts and noticed that in many unplanned spoken texts, there tend to be a lot of discourse particles (e.g well, so, sort of).

Why is this so?

Thanks  :)

Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: AngelWings on February 11, 2015, 11:23:08 pm
Okay, this is going to be a pretty broad answer.

Your key word is unplanned.
Let's think about it this way...
You're having a conversation to your best friend about your summer holidays (aside from study). Surely, some things here would be implied (thus your "you know"s), some unplanned (thus your false starts), even some not completely thought out ideas (thus your discourse particles, "um"s and "ah"s). You don't really practice it like you would an assessed speech in front of your Eng Lang class, right?

Unplanned texts are thought of simultaneously and sometimes, your mouth is faster than your mind. After all it's doing several things at once - recalling your (hopefully happy) memories of the summer, moving your mouth up and down, etc. (You didn't get a chance to make this stuff up beforehand - it's unplanned.)
To counteract this (and so not to create this awkward silence in a *supposedly* fluent conversation), we use discourse particles to cover up this space and let ourselves think ideas and words through - we just need a little time.

tl;dr: We're human, we all need time to think ideas through while your mouth motors on, so we have discourse particles to keep the conversation flowing.

Please feel free to correct me.
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: point on February 11, 2015, 11:33:39 pm
Hi,
I've been reading through a few transcripts and noticed that in many unplanned spoken texts, there tend to be a lot of discourse particles (e.g well, so, sort of).

Why is this so?

Thanks  :)

Discourse Particles can serve multiple functions in a text, to be honest you have to read a bit of the text to have a gauge of what they are trying to serve.
In your examples you quoted "sort of"
This is an example of a discourse particle being used as part of a hedging expression in which the impact of a sentence is "softened"
"I sort of went around the other way"

Discourse particles can: provide focus, change topics (terms such as "anyways") or add conversational/discourse functions (such as uh's,well's, you know's, and ah's). [I'm sure there are more examples]

However one thing to note is that Discourse Particles never change the true conditional meaning of a sentence.

Hope this helps!

EDIT: grammar (lol)
Title: Re: EngLang 3/4 Question Thread.
Post by: chocolate.cake.1 on February 20, 2015, 07:00:48 pm
Hello I'm back  :)

I was wondering how clefting contributes to cohesion?
The VCAA study design says clefting is a factor that contributes to cohesion... but why?

Thanks :)