ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Universities - Victoria => University of Melbourne => Topic started by: Tradie123 on November 20, 2014, 08:06:44 pm
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I will be studying at the University of Melbourne next year as a mature aged student. I am concerned because the prescribed textbook for Chemistry 1, "Chemistry3" by A. Burrows, J. Holman, A. Parsons, G. Pilling and G. Price doesn't seem to be a textbook that starts from the absolute basics such as explaining what chemistry is, what an atom is, what mixtures are, etc.
When I asked some students if they recommended that I go through the VCE chemistry textbooks before starting with "Chemistry3", many students said that I shouldn't since VCE chemistry will not help me with university chemistry. That is why I want to know:
1. What is the most efficient way to prepare for Chemistry 1?
2. What chemistry book should I go through and master before even touching "Chemistry3"?
Thank you!
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I'm not from Melbourne and can't answer directly, but something I'm a little unsure about that would benefit others wanting to give advice is what level of background knowledge in Chemistry do you have? What about Chemistry do you know?
I would agree that a unit 3/4 high school Chemistry book would be pretty useless (particularly if Melbourne's chem units are anything like Monash's, which they tend to be at first year), but a unit 1/2 VCE book could prove beneficial - depending on your level of background knowledge.
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If you can make it through the first chapters of Zumdahl (the old textbook for Chemistry 1, much better then the current book,) you should be fine. It covers the real basics (atomic structure, bonding, real basic organic chemistry, stoichometry etc.)
You could also opt to do Fundamentals of Chemistry instead (which presumes no chemistry knowledge.)
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I'm not from Melbourne and can't answer directly, but something I'm a little unsure about that would benefit others wanting to give advice is what level of background knowledge in Chemistry do you have? What about Chemistry do you know?
I would agree that a unit 3/4 high school Chemistry book would be pretty useless (particularly if Melbourne's chem units are anything like Monash's, which they tend to be at first year), but a unit 1/2 VCE book could prove beneficial - depending on your level of background knowledge.
I've added more details but to answer your question, absolutely no knowledge of chemistry. I never did VCE Chemistry.
If you can make it through the first chapters of Zumdahl (the old textbook for Chemistry 1, much better then the current book,) you should be fine. It covers the real basics (atomic structure, bonding, real basic organic chemistry, stoichometry etc.)
You could also opt to do Fundamentals of Chemistry instead (which presumes no chemistry knowledge.)
I'd rather not do Fundamentals of Chemistry, I don't want to do any summer units haha! Could you link me to the Zumdahl textbook you're talking about?
Also, two more questions:
1. Zumdahl is from the US and "Chemistry3" is from the UK. Are there any differences between chemistry in the US and UK?
2. In regards to how good the explanations are, how many calculations/proofs there are and how challenging the questions are, is Zumdahl just as good as "Chemistry3"?
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The thing with science is that's pretty universal.
Let's say that the US suddenly discovers the cure to cancer - they're going to publish that in a paper ASAP so that they look better.
Then, the UK will look at that paper - because it's the cure to cancer, of course. The UK will then use this paper to teach others about the cure to cancer - and the cycle goes on and on. So it doesn't matter who you take it from, you should get very similar material.
As for calculations/proofs - if Zumdahl is what it sounds like it is, you'll either find more or less calculations depending on what you think chemistry is. As for proofs, lower levels of chemistry have no proofs - it's an experimental field, you can't really "prove" anything without having experiments to back it up. (note: physical chemistry will have proofs of equations, but of the few I've seen, they were probably more akin to "derivations" than "proofs" - the practical sciences use maths as a language, they aren't maths. :P You also shouldn't see any of these equations until first year uni chem anyway, and probably won't be expected to follow the derivations.)
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Hey !
Just wanted to let you know that if you do fundamentals of chem in semester 1 and get a high enough grade (talking 85 + which is doable if you put in the effort) you can enrol directly into chem 2 in semester 2. I think this would be a much better pathway. They teach you all the basics in fundamentals and it's a really well taught subject (my best for the year-review soon).
IMO it's a much better pathway. Some parts of Chem 1 are similar to fundamentals. You learn a few new things (especially in inorganic-structure of solids) but most of the things are just a follow on from fundamentals. If you go straight from fundamentals to chem 2 I don't think you would be at much of a disadvantage (i.e. you won't miss out on much). However, in saying that, I didn't take that pathway (doing chem 2 in summer) so you might wanna talk to someone who did.
All the best bud. :)
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Thank you EulerFan101 and Whynot123! All I need to know now is:
1. In regards to how good the explanations are, how many calculations/proofs there are and how challenging the questions are, is Zumdahl just as good as "Chemistry3"?
2. Does Zumdahl start from the absolute basics?
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I used Zumdahl's this year as a supplementary text and yeah it does start from the ground up (covering the basics on atoms/molecules/ions, stoichiometry, the scientific method, basic chemical reactions, gases etc which would be assumed knowledge from high school chemistry).
I recommend you just torrent the book (you can find it pretty easily if you just google it) and have a read through it. I can't personally speak for how accessible it is to people with zero chemistry background, but it does have chapters covering the basics and if you do run into trouble you can always google for more elaboration.
edit: text name is just "Chemistry" by Zumdahl. I had the 7th edition
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I used Zumdahl's this year as a supplementary text and yeah it does start from the ground up (covering the basics on atoms/molecules/ions, stoichiometry, the scientific method, basic chemical reactions, gases etc which would be assumed knowledge from high school chemistry).
I recommend you just torrent the book (you can find it pretty easily if you just google it) and have a read through it. I can't personally speak for how accessible it is to people with zero chemistry background, but it does have chapters covering the basics and if you do run into trouble you can always google for more elaboration.
edit: text name is just "Chemistry" by Zumdahl. I had the 7th edition
Thank you psyxwar! So are the newer editions any different?
Also, is it as good as the current prescribed text which is "Chemistry3" in regards to explanations, how many calculations and proofs there are, and how challenging the questions are?
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Thank you psyxwar! So are the newer editions any different?
Also, is it as good as the current prescribed text which is "Chemistry3" in regards to explanations, how many calculations and proofs there are, and how challenging the questions are?
I used Chemistry 3 during a high school (advanced) chemistry course, and Zumdahl at uni. I remember that I wasn't really a fan of Chemistry 3 (although it's one of the few textbooks to cover both the organic+inorganic+physical parts of the course throughly, so I think that's why they use it, so you only have to buy one book.) Zumdahl has much better questions, much more questions (up to 100 per chapter, including some difficult ones,) and worked examples and the like. Sorry, can't remember much more detail then that.
You can probably track down old copies of Zumdahl easily enough (even going back to the mid-90s should be good enough, it's not like first year chemistry has changed much.)
Honestly, if you're coming back into study after such a long time off, I'd suggest making sure your math skills are up to scratch. So much of a science degree relies on basic algebra (rearranging and solving equations,) that being behind there will make things difficult.
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I used Chemistry 3 during a high school (advanced) chemistry course, and Zumdahl at uni. I remember that I wasn't really a fan of Chemistry 3 (although it's one of the few textbooks to cover both the organic+inorganic+physical parts of the course throughly, so I think that's why they use it, so you only have to buy one book.) Zumdahl has much better questions, much more questions (up to 100 per chapter, including some difficult ones,) and worked examples and the like. Sorry, can't remember much more detail then that.
You can probably track down old copies of Zumdahl easily enough (even going back to the mid-90s should be good enough, it's not like first year chemistry has changed much.)
Honestly, if you're coming back into study after such a long time off, I'd suggest making sure your math skills are up to scratch. So much of a science degree relies on basic algebra (rearranging and solving equations,) that being behind there will make things difficult.
I'll be getting Zumdahl's "Chemistry" then! Thank you everyone! Other than algebra, what are all the other mathematics concepts that I should make sure I master before going through Zumdahl's "Chemistry"?
Also, in Chemistry 1, do you go through all of Zumdahl's "Chemistry"?
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Like studying Physics from the beginning, if you're interested in studying Chemistry from the very beginning I suggest you take Fundamentals of Chemistry rather than Chemistry 1.
I'll see how I go with Zumdahl's "Chemistry" since it starts from the basics and make my decision afterwards :)
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If you haven't done highschool chemistry, I think you actually -have- to enrol in Fundamentals of Chemistry; there's no choice in terms of where you start.
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If you haven't done highschool chemistry, I think you actually -have- to enrol in Fundamentals of Chemistry; there's no choice in terms of where you start.
Okay, thanks for letting me know!
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If you haven't done highschool chemistry, I think you actually -have- to enrol in Fundamentals of Chemistry; there's no choice in terms of where you start.
I know people have tested out of Chemistry 1 and 2 before, so Fundamentals should be no different?
OP, if you're willing, contact Stephen Best (first year Chemistry coordinator,) if you want to do this.
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I know people have tested out of Chemistry 1 and 2 before, so Fundamentals should be no different?
OP, if you're willing, contact Stephen Best (first year Chemistry coordinator,) if you want to do this.
I did, he'll be giving me an old textbook next year :)
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I'll be getting Zumdahl's "Chemistry" then! Thank you everyone! Other than algebra, what are all the other mathematics concepts that I should make sure I master before going through Zumdahl's "Chemistry"?
Also, in Chemistry 1, do you go through all of Zumdahl's "Chemistry"?
Nah, you'd only cover a few chapters. If I can find my two year old subject guide I can post them (shouldn't have changed much.)
Per the other thread, depends a bit on what you're planning on doing. Kahnacademy should be enough.
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Nah, you'd only cover a few chapters. If I can find my two year old subject guide I can post them (shouldn't have changed much.)
Per the other thread, depends a bit on what you're planning on doing. Kahnacademy should be enough.
Thanks again!
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If you haven't done highschool chemistry, I think you actually -have- to enrol in Fundamentals of Chemistry; there's no choice in terms of where you start.
This is true, unless you get them to allow you to sit a test, if you do well enough they may accelerate you. But if you have no chemistry knowledge you will need to be studying this Summer anyway in order to do so. I did the Fundamentals >> Chem 2 pathway. It wasn't hard to do well enough in Fundamentals to be offered the accelerated pathway.
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Thank you everyone for the advice! I'll be preparing for Chemistry: Fundamentals and cannot wait to get back into education again!
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Khan Academy was excellent for preparing for Fundamentals. I literally went in to Uni already knowing the first 3-4 weeks of content thanks to KA.
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Khan Academy was excellent for preparing for Fundamentals. I literally went in to Uni already knowing the first 3-4 weeks of content thanks to KA.
Thank you, I'll look into it!