ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: teebagger* on September 08, 2009, 05:10:07 pm
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I'm, well, balls at maths (which is really abnormal seeing as I'm Asian :x). Currently in year 11 and wondering if I've made a mistake dropping it and whether I should pick up 3&4 Further next year.
And I'm also curious to see if anyone else has dropped maths altogether, and even more curious to see if anyone has managed a fairly high ENTER without it.
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Although I do Maths, I know that there are people who get 99s etc without maths. It's just that when they go to Uni their choices are more restricted. It's all about what you want to do at Uni I guess...
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Well, two people at my school managed to get 99.95 without maths last year, and another had it as her 7th subject.
If you REALLY don't like maths and can't imagine pursuing anything that needs it, don't bother. Just choose the subjects that you like instead.
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True, true. Matters are made worse by the fact that I still don't have much of an idea of what I want to do but eh. I'm sure it won't involve maths.
What maths are you doing & what do you wanna do after VCE?
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How many subjects are you doing next year/altogether? My friend isn't planning on doing Further because she doesn't ~feel like it and she doesn't need it for her course. But I think that's a bad idea because she's only doing 4 subjects next year with 1 3/4 this year.
If you're doing 5 3/4 subjects altogether you should do Further just for the sake of it (having no maths sort of limits your Uni options depending on what you want to do). Unless you really abhor it, then pick something else up.
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Next year I'm doing 5 altogether: English, (hopefully) English Language, Legal Studies, Psychology & Biology. My school's kinda retarded in that we're only allowed to do 5 subjects in year 12, which makes me wanna gnaw my arm off or something for not doing a 3&4 this year.
Yeah, I really detest maths so picking it up might be a waste. I feel so alone though lol. *Feels a lot less smart than all you smart people*
Does no one else on this forum not do maths?
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Hi
I do maths, but don't worry! Kinda
If you do decide to do Further in year 12, it will be EASY, that is, you don't need year 11
Also, I also suck at maths, and almost choose not to do maths, all my course preferences for VTAC (uni next year) don't even require maths, and they pay HIGH money! There are actually shortages.
Lots of courses don't need maths, AND those that do, merely require A MATHS,(furtehr, spesh or methods).
In the end took up further because i figured it's better than nothing (even though i did 2 year 12 subjects last year), and if i did badly, i did badly and wouldn't have anything to lose. obviously tohugh i just want to scrape a pass, so as to meet any uni requiremtns of a maths. Because altohugh im 98% sure anything i do in Uni wont need a maths, its just BETTR for that back up :D
In fact, in further this year I am performing better than years 7-10 :D
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Does no one else on this forum not do maths?
I did but it wasn't part of my primary 4, does that count? :P
This is a very maths-concentrated forum ... unfortunately JK JK
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Maths won't be one of my primary four either! (unless something weird happens). Only doing it for prerequisites >_<
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I did Methods and Spec... but guess which two subjects weren't in my top 4?? XD
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......im guessing! Im guessing! Is it English!
LMAO. But wow, that's sort of un-lucky isn't it? Since they get scaled up? But you still did awesome judging by your ENTER lol.
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No! You peeps up there still count for even doing it! Lol.
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i did methods in yr 11, well, unit 1 anyway. i failed miserably and hated it so i dropped it in semester 2. i was going to take up general maths or whatever it's called but the class was full so i couldn't. at the time i was pissed off but it worked out great. not doing maths rules.
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...a bit off topic....ur name is disturbing lol.
and so this post isn't worthless, DON'T REGRET not doing Maths. I have heard of some people who haven't (because not interested, don't need it), and still end up with a higher ENETR of high 80's, and they get into the course that they want, and get a normal/high paying job :D.
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This guy I know got ENTER 97.5 and got into med @ monash and did not do ANY maths.
If u dont like it or ur not good at it...DONT DO IT, and dont have any regrets, ur talents are better spent elsewhere
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...a bit off topic....ur name is disturbing lol.
and so this post isn't worthless, DON'T REGRET not doing Maths. I have heard of some people who haven't (because not interested, don't need it), and still end up with a higher ENETR of high 80's, and they get into the course that they want, and get a normal/high paying job :D.
I know that there are people who get 99s etc without maths.
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...a bit off topic....ur name is disturbing lol.
and so this post isn't worthless, DON'T REGRET not doing Maths. I have heard of some people who haven't (because not interested, don't need it), and still end up with a higher ENETR of high 80's, and they get into the course that they want, and get a normal/high paying job :D.
Haha, keep in mind that it's a complete joke and I don't actually, well, y'know...
:)
I hope I'm capable of managing a high 80. :x
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This guy I know got ENTER 97.5 and got into med @ monash and did not do ANY maths.
Whoa. No words lol.
Actually, there are words: did he do any sciences?
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This guy I know got ENTER 97.5 and got into med @ monash and did not do ANY maths.
Whoa. No words lol.
Actually, there are words: did he do any sciences?
Well yeh for med u need to do chem(he got in the 30s) and bio (48)
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The Good guys at melbourne U made it easier for people to do courses without methods e,g, environments which can lead to engineering, architecture, landscape etc. So methods is not really necessary, but it certainly opens up more things to do. Also, watch out for legal, if you have good english expression (which I don't) you might struggle
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I'm, well, balls at maths (which is really abnormal seeing as I'm Asian :x). Currently in year 11 and wondering if I've made a mistake dropping it and whether I should pick up 3&4 Further next year.
And I'm also curious to see if anyone else has dropped maths altogether, and even more curious to see if anyone has managed a fairly high ENTER without it.
Its usually likely your ENTER COULD drop, but, our dux of year 12 did absolutely NO maths and got 99.5 (something higher than 99.4). They were just too good in their other subjects.
I did maths because I love it and want my life to revolve around it. Whether this is engineering, physics or of course maths.
If you are not good at maths then don't do it because the odds are if you do further maths you'll have lost the opportunity to do another subject you could have done really well in and loved.
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hmm you know quantumJG, have you ever condisered doing meteorology? because thats virtually physics and maths
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Yes!! Asian Pride!! :D
Haha but seriously, its up to you. You should just go with your strengths and pick whatever subjects you enjoy and are good at.
If you hate maths, then don't do it. Many people still achieve high enters without maths.
But some courses may require maths, so if you are unsure on what you want to do, it is probably better to do it just in case.
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Keep in mind that many university courses require maths methods, even if they might not seem to be the most mathsy courses in the world. I believe Commerce at UoM requires a 35 raw in methods, or a similar requirement. If you aren't sure what you want to do yet not doing maths methods could greatly limit your choices in the future.
On the otherhand, if you know what you want to do will not require maths as a prerequisite then go right ahead in not doing it, you'll probably maximise your ENTER (and have more fun) doing something you enjoy.
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quite sure you only need raw 25 for commerce at UoM
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Not that that would make any difference to math-pros like Ahmad... XD
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I have also dropped maths!!! Feel better now? God knows I do for dropping that BLOODY SUBJECT! :)
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Your school isn't the only one that doesn't allow people to do more than 5 subjects in year 12, but they put that rule in place for a reason - it's very difficult to balance 6 subjects. Besides, your 6th subject is only used as a 10% increment anyway, so you're better off putting in more effort for your 5 subjects rather than doing 6.
ours makes us do 5 because we have to do religion as our 6th -_- unit 2 tho
and as you can see in my signature i am doing both maths so yeah... :)
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I'm not doing maths in year 12. It is such a relief not doing, as I hate maths.
If you hate it as much as me, you shouldn't do it. Also, the courses I applied for do not need maths.
However, if you do not know what you want to do, to keep your options open, keep maths. It all depends how much you like it, and what you want to do. As, not doing maths does not adversely affect your results, as shown.
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i know this was posted in 2009 but i thought if anyone searched this question that aleast they'd have an up to date answer!
my older sister didn't do any maths or science in year 11 or 12. she managed to get an atar score of 99.3 and was the college dux for her year:) she won a scholarship to melbourne uni but turned it down because she didnt like how you couldnt take double degrees and at the moment shes studying arts/law at monash uni:)
people say that your course options are restricted alot but if you have no interest in courses such as say,biomed at melbourne uni -then you really dont need those subjects. also,it depends on what uni you wwant to go to as well-im pretty sure you can get into nursing at deakin without any maths but at monash you would probably need it.
so basically,as a re-cap,if you dont want to study maths in year 12 because you're not that confident in it or you dont like it, then drop it. the courses you want to get into arent being restricted that much,its more the univeristies that you want to get into because-as i said before-one course might require maths at a specific uni but the same course might not have maths as a pre-req at another university!
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I got a mid nineties score from a regional school with no math, science or languages. Humanities were all my Year 12 subjects. You can do well without mathematics, just make sure it does not impact on satisfying the prerequisites of your tertiary preferences. I would always advise you pursue your passions and that you do not fawn to the interests of your friends. Also, you may find that even teachers will looking at your disapprovingly if you were once part of their faculty, but, to be honest, do not give an iota about their maladjusted perspective on what subjects have intellectual rigor. I have had mathematics teachers tell me that "My subjects are easy"; well, if that is the case, why am I prepping essays all week and reading tonnes of texts? To be honest, I doubt she ever sat in any literature or philosophy classes.
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If you're wanting to do Further for the sake of doing a maths subject then forget it, it's a really useless subject and you're much better off doing a subject you enjoy. Sure, the workload is relatively low but like you said, you suck at maths so don't push yourself to do it. It's a super competitive subject and gets marked down a lot if you don't achieve well so it's not worth your time.
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"Choose subjects you are good at or enjoy." -Posters around school
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Further Mathematics is highly competitive, scaled down and isn't a prerequisite for anything. Only do Further Maths in if you like Maths but think Specialist Maths is too hard.
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Just realized this question was posted in 2009. Awks.
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Like you I didn't do maths in yr 11 or 12. If you arent that good at it, like me, then you would have a greater chance of getting a higher ATAR if you did another subject you really like and/or are good at because you don't spend all your time worrying about maths and trying to do everything for it :)
I got an 85.85 without maths but having said that i would've got higher but French screwed me over majorly lol
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I'm also doing it for prerequisites <.>.<.>
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Lots of dislike for maths. I dont know how you guys do it.
Maths is like my religion. I pray to derivative funtions, hail to sketching graphs and chant the formulae of double angle formula's
:)
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I reckon Methods should be at least obligatory as English. If I were the premier of Victoria, I'd make all the VCE students do VCE methods along with VCE English.
Sorry English folks, Methods is important as English. Yeah, say that VCE English is more important Methods, it would probably end up as an rational argument that methods is not important, but I heavily disagree with this.
Everything revolving around us has maths behind it. Lets say technology, a lot of people wouldn't know that much maths is behind the technological advances we are making. We need more maths to improve everything around us.
Case debunked.
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I reckon Methods should be at least obligatory as English. If I were the premier of Victoria, I'd make all the VCE students do VCE methods along with VCE English.
Sorry English folks, Methods is important as English. Yeah, say that VCE English is more important Methods, it would probably end up as an rational argument that methods is not important, but I heavily disagree with this.
Everything revolving around us has maths behind it. Lets say technology, a lot of people wouldn't know that much maths is behind the technological advances we are making. We need more maths to improve everything around us.
Case debunked.
Most people are not in a field where they need to know the inner algorithms of computation models; this is why we have OS systems and intuitive interfacing on our consumer goods. Most programmes in administrative jobs are very basic and do not require a high level of mathematical expertise to navigate. In general, the everyday person needs to know how to do financial and taxation calculations as well as have a high enough literacy level to decipher the gabble of contractual clauses. Methods is not really that helpful to these basic mathematics that could be learned in Further or even in your own time.
We need people with high literacy rates so that they can learn the mathematics.
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Unless you know for sure that you need it as a prerequisite then you should. If not, then its your choice as doing it may not benefit you if it isn't a prerequisite.
A guy at my school this year did no maths or science and still managed a 99.95 and he is doing arts/law
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In the end, who knows what you will end up being? Plenty of people have changed their outlook completely, from Commerce to Physiotherapy, from International Studies to Biomedical Science. In the end, Methods is a fairly useful subject, and should not be dropped unless the individual is 100% sure that they do not want a career involving some type of maths.
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Unless you know for sure that you need it as a prerequisite then you should. If not, then its your choice as doing it may not benefit you if it isn't a prerequisite.
A guy at my school this year did no maths or science and still managed a 99.95 and he is doing arts/law
VCE and ATAR considerations aside, a certain level of numeracy is necessary even for those who pursue careers in Humanities.
Similarly, literacy is required for those who pursue careers in the Sciences. Thats why we are all made to do VCE English.
All professions are in fact a mix of Science and Humanities. Look at Commerce, for instance.
And is it not important to understand Data Analysis and Statistics for Sociology and Psychology research ?
Thats EXACTLY waht Further Maths teaches you. Study it .
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We need people with high literacy rates so that they can learn the mathematics.
This.
There are too many people in maths class saying, "I don't get the question (but I'm fine with the maths)".
NO; you have to be proficient in English to be good at Maths.
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We need people with high literacy rates so that they can learn the mathematics.
This.
Yes.
I will go further.
"We need people with high literacy rates so that they can EXPLAIN the mathematics"
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You should do Methods or Further, the skills you gain from it are important, you usually want to be able to mathematically understand things. I have always found maths useful when I'm able to analyse things mathematically.
Like, I can't imagine not being able to describe things as "exponentially decreasing" and stuff like that or "sinusoidal" - if you don't do maths, you just won't have that little bit of understanding.
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Yes.
I will go further.
"We need people with high literacy rates so that they can EXPLAIN the mathematics"
Methods is one of the most useful subjects; not only is it a prerequisite for a lot of uni courses it also provides a good insight into mathematical relations.
However, I can't contest the argument that you need English to understand the ambiguous wording of problems. I've had my fair share of frustration over the way some easy problems are worded.
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However, I can't contest the argument that you need English to understand the ambiguous wording of problems. I've had my fair share of frustration over the way some easy problems are worded.
Yep; I relate to your experiences of numerous ambiguous questions as seen in a range of textbooks. I often got the feeling that "revised editions" of maths textbooks were just newer books, perhaps with a few answers in the back amended, a more recent year stamped on the inside of the front cover, a more colourful cover, and expressions such as "Edition XX: with new improved XX" plastered over the cover (despite there not being much visible improvement).
However (maybe because I studied a LOTE foreign to me, and English Language), I found myself, in many cases, able to 'analyse the context of questions (if you will)'. I suppose I did this by reading the question over a few times and considering the most likely intended meaning of the question through some educated guessing as well as considering the intended the meanings of ambiguous questions I had answered in the past.
Although I cannot pin down the complete reason for my ability to better interpret opaque questions than my peers, I am quite sure I did have a significantly sharper mind in interpreting ambiguous questions when compared to some of my capable peers (who often consulted me about the ambiguous questions). I am convinced that studying the two aforementioned subjects gave me an extra edge in 'unlocking' ambiguous questions. Furthermore, I reiterate that past questions I had encountered must have been a large factor in helping me understand unclear questions.
I also acknowledge that:
- I don't really have any specific examples of ambiguous questions to discuss (so my argument can fairly be seen as weak)
- I have encountered a few (but not too many) ambiguous questions which I could not interpret and answer
- Ambiguous questions are not to be applauded as they are the result of poor writing (although some might argue it stimulates the mind xD)
- I can't really say that my interpretations of ambiguous questions were correct (I just realised this :'(); I simply wound up with the same answer in the back of the book. So I guess it's more accurate to say that I correctly interpreted the author's intended meaning?
- There is usually more than one 'correct' answer to such ambiguous questions
- You and I may have experienced totally different kinds of ambiguous questions (again destroying my argument). Btw, I used the "Cambridge Essential" MM textbook
- I did not do VCE English (I did Eng Lang, and only just realised this >_<) so maybe my argument is completely invalid..
- There is more to acknowledge
However, I've also had experiences in which peers had trouble answering unambiguous questions simply because "the wording was difficult". Thus I can safely say that proficiency in English is a prerequisite to proficiency in Maths (even if only slightly)
Just my two cents worth
TL;DR English may sometimes help maths
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We need English to make sure people understand things the same way.
- Let's eat, Grandma!!!
- Let's eat Grandma!!!
mean two very different things, we don't want to inadvertantly eat Grandma because we don't all understand English the same way :P