ATAR Notes: Forum

HSC Stuff => HSC Subjects + Help => HSC Maths Stuff => Topic started by: RuiAce on March 10, 2017, 09:06:12 pm

Title: Mathematics and Debating
Post by: RuiAce on March 10, 2017, 09:06:12 pm

Hi everyone :)

So we all know that I love to make maths fun. Because maths is beautiful and that's enough said. So I thought it would be fun to add some 'English' into maths to make things more interesting.

Welcome to the maths debate section! Here, I will occasionally post up a topic which I invite everyone to debate on! (Probably each 14-28 days though; it's hard to think up a lot of topics for maths to debate with.) Questions will vary from all sorts of things that have maths in them; they could be related to maths itself, a key element of maths, or just something about it in everyday society. Call me a nerd, but I am certainly interested in your thoughts on this opinion :P

You may use whatever knowledge you wish to use, so you can choose to go with what you have or do a ton of extensive research... Either way, you pick which side (affirmative/negative) you wish to take, and argue whatever you want! Refutation is invited, but any posts going out of hand will be promptly deleted.

Of course, we will not set it out like a formal debate with a chairman, timekeeper, adjudicators and etc. But if you want to be REALLY good...

Yeah. I'm keen af.

I dare you to set out your response as though you were the first speaker of your team.

_________________________________________

The first topic will be this:

"That mathematics was discovered, not invented."

Have fun 8)

Title: Re: Mathematics and Debating
Post by: vcestressed on March 11, 2017, 12:28:46 pm

Hey! I really like the topic. It’s so different to the topics I’ve debated to before and I’m looking forward to see what everyone else comes up with. :) Also, I’ll prob add more arguments later but this is the only thing I can think of right now and coming up with original and strong arguments for this topic is kinda hard (for me, anyway).
 I would firstly like to define the topic. Mathematics is defined as ‘the abstract science of number, quantity, and space, either as abstract concepts (pure mathematics), or as applied to other disciplines such as physics and engineering (applied mathematics)’ by the Oxford dictionary. Discover means to ‘find unexpectedly or during a search’ and invent means to ‘create or design (something that has not existed before); be the originator of'. I believe that mathematics was discovered not invented because:
Maths is a universal language and can be understood by anyone. Universal language is defined as a historical language that can be understood by all or most of the population. Mathematics is used to ‘invent’ other technologies and complex formulas that are used today. Why? Because mathematics was always there. There is a link in science and math (and any other subject). So the limit of us knowing more about science is because of the limits of our mathematical knowledge. How does knowing more about mathematics make us more capable of understanding scientific concepts? Because maths exists in nature. We've invented numbers, but do numbers actually exist? Mathematics describes the reality; it is not the reality itself.  We are 'discovering' mathematics as time passes by and by using our discoveries, we are 'inventing' everything else. Hence, mathematics is discovered, not invented.

Title: Re: Mathematics and Debating
Post by: RuiAce on March 18, 2017, 05:41:19 pm

I have some thoughts on what could be the next topic but it's only been a week. So I definitely want to see some more responses first.

Also, I'll relax the "rules" a bit. You can stand in the middle if you want and you can choose not to present many arguments, or base off your arguments off common sense. But just try not to. :P

I'll present my thoughts on the topic I post in the same post as the next topic.

Title: Re: Mathematics and Debating
Post by: FallonXay on April 08, 2017, 02:04:48 pm

(Warning: I've never engaged in a formal debate, so i'm not really sure how arguments are meant to work/ be structured  :P) Also, I'm just going to take the opposite side to keep things interesting hehe

vcestressed, you state here that you believe maths to be a 'universal language'.

Quote from: vcestressed on March 11, 2017, 12:28:46 pm

Maths is a universal language and can be understood by anyone. Universal language is defined as a historical language that can be understood by all or most of the population.

But wouldn't you say that language was invented not discovered? We discovered the possibility and need/ advantages of collaboration which may be achieved through the exchange of information and thus cultivated these needs through the invention of what is now known as 'language' to suit our purposes. The multiplicity of languages in itself, which varies from nationality to nationality and culture to culture (i.e dialects included) is highly suggestive of the fact that language is an invention, or otherwise, that there somehow exists an infinitesimal bank of languages that exists within the universe but has yet to be discovered. However, the latter, is unlikely, under the definitions that you have presented:

Quote from: vcestressed on March 11, 2017, 12:28:46 pm

[Discovery] ‘find unexpectedly or during a search’ and [invention] to ‘create or design;

It is evident that we do not go looking or searching for languages, but rather we design and manipulate sounds to create communication and suit our own purposes (In a similar manner, by which we develop the mathematical language to aid in our understanding of the world). Languages are formed from words, and looking at recent examples, we have in fact invented words such as 'yolo' or 'selfie'. This is clear evidence of the notion by which language is invented.

Furthermore, programming or encryption are clear examples of the invention of language. Things like the caesar shift or use of substitution are clearly languages invented (created and designed) explicitly by humans for the purposes of communication. These forms of languages of which have been formed under our discovery for the need for confidential transmission of data. Hence, under the assumption that you have presented that maths is a language, and under the idea that language was invented, I would have to conclude that maths was therefore also invented.