Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 11:46:05 am
The exam is here!
<<<CURRENT STATUS: Done and dusted..>>>
Multiple Choice
(https://i.imgur.com/X0T6nWR.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/4Ghg0lC.jpg)
Question 11
(https://i.imgur.com/KA3PpLn.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/QOG1Rum.jpg)
Question 12
(https://i.imgur.com/MA5q6hX.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/WpwYXhH.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/J8Aj5PO.jpg)
Question 13
(https://i.imgur.com/Iy7NOME.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/wQIIT9n.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/DsIHNEr.jpg)
Question 14
(https://i.imgur.com/RTWfc31.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/DTSiKty.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/0soS4vq.jpg)
Question 15
(https://i.imgur.com/Utggv4A.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/Z0NU3u7.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/wnWVZCQ.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/1wRdBKt.jpg)
Question 16
(https://i.imgur.com/2IKqLwM.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/ANPcFAD.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/3ChRK7p.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/2L42YDG.jpg)
Commentary
Most of the questions in this year weren't too bad. What was bizarre was how the very last question ended up being a mix between perms and combs, with induction.
It was actually not that bad if you didn't get intimidated by it and you figured out the previous part out, because you just followed the same line of working out. But being real, 4U is hard enough as is, so add some exam stress and it's very easy to just get intimidated by all of that stuff.
Q14 was really interesting this year. Some of the results were really nice and it was more "fun" than the average Q14 in HSC MX2.
What I worry about this paper is not the difficulty, but rather the length. I feel as though after quite a few years of not running into this issue (because they introduced M/C), this is the first year since then that the paper wasn't as easily finishable. Questions such as Q16b, Q14c iii and Q14b iii were all perfectly manageable, BUT some students would probably have lacked the time to develop the intuition/methods to actually solve them. Even Q13b ii, whilst being a very nice mix between polynomials and harder 3U inequality proofs, could've stumped people if they didn't see how part a was to be used. And perhaps Q16a ii, if people forgot the fact that \( |z| = 1\implies \overline{z} = z^{-1} \).
Last year with the whole derangements stuff I was very unsatisfied with what they put into the exam (especially with recurrence relations and what not to follow). This year, whilst the question was more bizarre, at least the combinatorics question was more akin to the scope of the course.
So in all, I feel as though most of the complaints were either invoked by the weirdness of the questions (unable to find intuition) or the length. The difficulty of the questions themselves wasn't what was to blame.
____________________________________________
So I feel as though this paper will be looking around the same E4 cutoffs as last year. A lot of students would need to have been defeated by the paper if the cutoff was lowered to anything below 69/100, but I think anything close to 71 is a fair call.
Post by: pikachu975 on October 23, 2017, 05:37:05 pm
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 05:38:11 pm
Pretty hard I think. Harder than past yearsDamn it. I last minute predicted that would happen when I started driving earlier. What was dodgy about this year?
Post by: johnk21 on October 23, 2017, 05:48:18 pm
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 05:50:35 pm
I thought it wasnt that hard, dont get me wrong it was hard, but i liked the exam. But me ranting about its hardness is totally different to my actual performance...Ehh don't worry too much about performance.
It's always a good thing if you find it decent regardless of how others found it :) everyone has different strengths and weaknesses and that impacts a single paper's relative difficulty a lot
Post by: pikachu975 on October 23, 2017, 05:53:53 pm
Damn it. I last minute predicted that would happen when I started driving earlier. What was dodgy about this year?
I think the overall paper was harder in general
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 05:55:19 pm
I think the overall paper was harder in generalI mean, I wouldn't be surprised, given 2014 was so-so, 2015 was easy and the only dodgy thing about 2016 was the derangements. Quite unfortunate though.
(I haven't seen it for myself yet. Paper's still in transit.)
Post by: lilliana.rose on October 23, 2017, 06:05:30 pm
Post by: Natmo243 on October 23, 2017, 06:30:18 pm
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 06:32:40 pm
I found it to be alot harder than previous years. Im still mad at myself for stuffing up most of the paper, including the easy stuff like the partial fractions and especially when I screwed up the integration of xtan^-1x despite glaring at the solution in my workbook right now :(
Post by: Natmo243 on October 23, 2017, 06:34:45 pm
Post by: Stardus on October 23, 2017, 06:36:50 pm
skipped last 4 marks of q 16
skipped the hyperbola ellipse question and yeah.
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 06:39:23 pm
Yep. I feel really dumb about it too. Its such an easy integral and I managed to screw it up. Only got through the first line before forgetting to split up the second integralDamn, very unfortunate :'( sorry to hear that
coudlnt do last part of circle geoThe hyperbola and ellipse were all on the same graph..?
skipped last 4 marks of q 16
skipped the hyperbola ellipse question and yeah.
Post by: pikachu975 on October 23, 2017, 06:43:35 pm
Damn, very unfortunate :'( sorry to hear thatThe hyperbola and ellipse were all on the same graph..?
Yep same graph and they had same foci
Post by: Stardus on October 23, 2017, 06:43:52 pm
Damn, very unfortunate :'( sorry to hear thatThe hyperbola and ellipse were all on the same graph..?
yeah they were, what about it?
Post by: pikachu975 on October 23, 2017, 06:52:10 pm
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 06:59:15 pm
Yep same graph and they had same fociSo many weird things this year lol
Post by: statues on October 23, 2017, 07:01:15 pm
Post by: BradMate on October 23, 2017, 07:14:58 pm
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 07:27:54 pm
Do you have solutions?Started now
Correct me if there's any disagreement
Post by: YmerBushati on October 23, 2017, 07:52:22 pm
Post by: xkevinz on October 23, 2017, 07:52:55 pm
The answer is alpha = tan-1 (1/root3) = pi/6.
Post by: maria19990 on October 23, 2017, 07:53:56 pm
Post by: xkevinz on October 23, 2017, 08:02:31 pm
So far, i have dropped 3 marks out of silly mistakes.
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 08:07:13 pm
Post by: pikachu975 on October 23, 2017, 08:07:22 pm
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 08:09:14 pm
Q1 is meant to be C because x^8 = 1 gives z = 1 as one solutionYep, clumsiness
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 08:23:41 pm
Post by: pikachu975 on October 23, 2017, 08:33:51 pm
Not confident with my trapezoidal volumes. Does anyone want to check it?
Should be something else I'll check what is wrong now
EDIT: Base isn't 2x you need more similar triangles
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 08:41:16 pm
Should be something else I'll check what is wrong nowAh crap I thought something was weird. Thanks.
EDIT: Base isn't 2x you need more similar triangles
Will probably get back to it later though
Post by: YmerBushati on October 23, 2017, 08:44:19 pm
Post by: Acing on October 23, 2017, 08:46:24 pm
Thanks for your speedy solutions! How do you think this paper ranked among the rest? Any estimates for the E4 cut off?
Post by: YmerBushati on October 23, 2017, 08:49:58 pm
Hey!
Thanks for your speedy solutions! How do you think this paper ranked among the rest? Any estimates for the E4 cut off?
This year was definitely a lot easier than other years, especially the last question, which was one of the easiest in a while. Not sure about E4 cutoff but definitely will need 99 or 100 for a state rank. A couple of marks will kill you in an exam like this (e.g. me who thought that the integral of tan-1x was 1/1+x^2 and is getting straight 0 for a super easy integration) :(
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 08:52:49 pm
Hey!I've been hearing mixed opinions about the paper's difficulty. I'll comment on this later :)
Thanks for your speedy solutions! How do you think this paper ranked among the rest? Any estimates for the E4 cut off?
Post by: pikachu975 on October 23, 2017, 08:53:11 pm
its not 2x, its 2y, you have to find the equation of the line, think it was y=1/2 x + 1 from memory.
Yep that looks right
Post by: akash6969 on October 23, 2017, 09:14:58 pm
Post by: YmerBushati on October 23, 2017, 09:21:17 pm
Full solutions
Post by: YmerBushati on October 23, 2017, 09:29:12 pm
This years paper was a bit easier than 2016 or 2015, probs same difficulty as 2014. Band 6 cutoff would probs be in the mid 70's
Angery React for making me change my creative - Kevin Zhang
Post by: NinjaDatHSC1 on October 23, 2017, 09:59:02 pm
Post by: armtistic on October 23, 2017, 10:06:45 pm
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 10:08:33 pm
Carrotsticks got a different volume for 13d) just a heads upScroll up. I've already confirmed with someone that my trapezium volume question is wrong
Post by: NinjaDatHSC1 on October 23, 2017, 10:09:15 pm
Just wondering, you reckon we would lose a mark if we didn't include the negative solutions for a in that q16 question? (I just wrote 1 and 1/3)
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 10:27:11 pm
Hey Rui,Actually unsure about that one tbh.
Just wondering, you reckon we would lose a mark if we didn't include the negative solutions for a in that q16 question? (I just wrote 1 and 1/3)
Convention is always to regard \( a > 0 \) to avoid nuisances. So technically you shouldn't. But theoretically speaking a negative value of a would still work and isn't incorrect...
Personally, I think it'd be kinda rude if they deducted marks for ignoring the negative values for a. But at the same time, they have all the rights to do it because it's not an incorrect answer.
Post by: louisa_wg on October 23, 2017, 10:49:26 pm
Post by: Checkmate123 on October 23, 2017, 10:52:59 pm
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 10:55:19 pm
What do you think a 94ish raw would scale to?97 or 98. I got 93 in my year and that went up to 97 and I feel as though my year was easier than this.
I'll be addressing all other queries soon
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 11:09:18 pm
What do you think the e4 cut off will be for this year? Thanks for posting the answers so quickly by the way!
Hey!So here's what I think about this year's paper, and then the E4 cut-off.
Thanks for your speedy solutions! How do you think this paper ranked among the rest? Any estimates for the E4 cut off?
Most of the questions in this year weren't too bad. What was bizarre was how the very last question ended up being a mix between perms and combs, with induction.
It was actually not that bad if you didn't get intimidated by it and you figured out the previous part out, because you just followed the same line of working out. But being real, 4U is hard enough as is, so add some exam stress and it's very easy to just get intimidated by all of that stuff.
Q14 was really interesting this year. Some of the results were really nice and it was more "fun" than the average Q14 in HSC MX2.
What I worry about this paper is not the difficulty, but rather the length. I feel as though after quite a few years of not running into this issue (because they introduced M/C), this is the first year since then that the paper wasn't as easily finishable. Questions such as Q16b, Q14c iii and Q14b iii were all perfectly manageable, BUT some students would probably have lacked the time to develop the intuition/methods to actually solve them. Even Q13b ii, whilst being a very nice mix between polynomials and harder 3U inequality proofs, could've stumped people if they didn't see how part a was to be used. And perhaps Q16a ii, if people forgot the fact that \( |z| = 1\implies \overline{z} = z^{-1} \).
Last year with the whole derangements stuff I was very unsatisfied with what they put into the exam (especially with recurrence relations and what not to follow). This year, whilst the question was more bizarre, at least the combinatorics question was more akin to the scope of the course.
So in all, I feel as though most of the complaints were either invoked by the weirdness of the questions (unable to find intuition) or the length. The difficulty of the questions themselves wasn't what was to blame.
____________________________________________
So I feel as though this paper will be looking around the same E4 cutoffs as last year. A lot of students would need to have been defeated by the paper if the cutoff was lowered to anything below 69/100, but I think anything close to 71 is a fair call.
Post by: Stardus on October 23, 2017, 11:13:45 pm
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 11:16:12 pm
so what will 86ish round toMost likely somewhere around 94
Post by: pikachu975 on October 23, 2017, 11:27:59 pm
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 11:30:42 pm
I agree it was the length of the paper. Like finding A and B in 14a, the conics perpendicular question, the 1 mark Find i1 for the reduction, 16a, so much writing...Yep. Those two were some of the ridiculous ones with length
Post by: pikachu975 on October 23, 2017, 11:35:10 pm
Yep. Those two were some of the ridiculous ones with length
Yeah lots of writing I was short on time. Hoping they give me 1 out of 2 for the arg(z/w) question I mind blanked and tried pi - tan^-1 (2+sqrt3) after finding the x+yi form of z/w. Also hoping for 2 out of 2 for the values of a in 16b and hoping they neglect the negatives.
Post by: RuiAce on October 23, 2017, 11:37:04 pm
Yeah lots of writing I was short on time. Hoping they give me 1 out of 2 for the arg(z/w) question I mind blanked and tried pi - tan^-1 (2+sqrt3) after finding the x+yi form of z/w. Also hoping for 2 out of 2 for the values of a in 16b and hoping they neglect the negatives.Ouch. Hate those mind blanks.
I think all of us are hoping they neglect the negatives really. I know I would've if I sat that paper.
Post by: samanthachoy on October 24, 2017, 02:14:27 am
Post by: tripat23 on October 24, 2017, 08:16:36 am
Post by: toasted on October 24, 2017, 08:51:35 am
Any predictions for what I would need to get like an aligned 83-85?
P.S Thanks for the speedy solutions Rui, you're a legend :D
Post by: RuiAce on October 24, 2017, 09:51:21 am
Yes! I completely agree about the length. When reading the questions, I was so happy cause there was nothing insanely bizarre like last year'a q16. But I struggled to finish the exam because I didn't anticipate time to be much of an issueIt's been the first time in a while since length has ever been a problem so yeah, I think several candidates would've been unsuspecting of that problem
do you think a raw 75-77 should scale up to an e4? and approximately how much do you think?75's always been enough to at least scrape E4.
You might get a 91 (or if lucky 92) though.
Hey!83 would be minimum 93. Not sure how far up it might go from there.
Any predictions for what I would need to get like an aligned 83-85?
P.S Thanks for the speedy solutions Rui, you're a legend :D
Hope all of you have had a good rest and I'm glad if the solutions proved useful :)
Scanned copies of the solutions are going to replace all the photos soon.
See you all in MX1!
Post by: Rathin on October 24, 2017, 11:17:59 am
You might get a 91 (or if lucky 92) though.83 would be minimum 93.
He said 82-83 aligned haha.
Post by: Rathin on October 24, 2017, 11:21:32 am
Post by: francoisplessis on October 24, 2017, 11:32:21 am
Post by: RuiAce on October 24, 2017, 11:37:50 am
He said 82-83 aligned haha.Oh.
Reversing it probably something around 65 to be safe?
What do you think a raw mark of 88 or 85 will get you around?88 should hopefully go up to 95 or 96. 85 maybe 93 or 94
Post by: JoinedAfterPaper1 on October 24, 2017, 12:33:30 pm
also what will raw marks of 70-82 get me, thanks!
Post by: atangirala1 on October 24, 2017, 12:51:36 pm
Post by: tripat23 on October 24, 2017, 01:06:03 pm
Post by: RuiAce on October 24, 2017, 01:12:10 pm
Estimated cut off?See opening post for the estimated cutoffs. 70 should hopefully scrape the E4.
also what will raw marks of 70-82 get me, thanks!
82 might go to 92 or 93?
A 90+ raw in this paper say 91 will scale up to what hsc mark?91 raw should be around 96
what do you think a raw mark of 78-79 would scale up to ? and would my classes marks affect me if i ranked first internally?92 ish
Nah. If you came first in the internals you're completely immune to moderation
Post by: Natmo243 on October 24, 2017, 03:13:41 pm
Post by: beau77bro on October 24, 2017, 08:12:49 pm
Post by: Wales on October 24, 2017, 09:05:40 pm
when will the actual exam paper be posted
It's already up. I think on the first page.
Post by: beau77bro on October 24, 2017, 09:55:50 pm
It's already up. I think on the first page.wait where? i mean the actual hsc exam paper with questions.
Post by: RuiAce on October 24, 2017, 10:04:35 pm
Any idea what a 23 raw will get me? (Besides not very far 😔)Fairly sure you got way more than this. That's an extremely harsh underestimate you're giving yourself.
wait where? i mean the actual hsc exam paper with questions.Whenever NESA chooses to upload them.
(Generally, they've been pretty fast this year so hopefully they will be out within the next 1-3 days. However, we will not endorse distributions of copies of the exam due to copyright concerns this year.)
Post by: beau77bro on October 24, 2017, 10:31:25 pm
Fairly sure you got way more than this. That's an extremely harsh underestimate you're giving yourself.Whenever NESA chooses to upload them.
(Generally, they've been pretty fast this year so hopefully they will be out within the next 1-3 days. However, we will not endorse distributions of copies of the exam due to copyright concerns this year.)
thanks rui! fair enough, u guys have done so much for me and so many people on this forum. thankyou for all ur 4u help this year. it has made a markable impact on my mark and jsut made everything so much easier. u guys do a great job and i appreciate u all.
btw how does one even state rank in 4u, let alone come first. really confused coz people keep talking about state ranks but idek how that works - from QLD originally. i think i got between 95-98, and i know its early but would that mark merit scaling wise? and what would you need to state rank?
Post by: RuiAce on October 25, 2017, 09:25:58 am
thanks rui! fair enough, u guys have done so much for me and so many people on this forum. thankyou for all ur 4u help this year. it has made a markable impact on my mark and jsut made everything so much easier. u guys do a great job and i appreciate u all.Glad we were able to help :D Best of luck in what's left
btw how does one even state rank in 4u, let alone come first. really confused coz people keep talking about state ranks but idek how that works - from QLD originally. i think i got between 95-98, and i know its early but would that mark merit scaling wise? and what would you need to state rank?
I've met a few math state rankers before in my degree at uni. Generally, a state ranking student gets a reported (i.e. aligned) mark of 100 or 99, because math exams are generally designed so that exceptionally high marks are achievable. A student who looks to state rank would need at least a raw mark of 97 (and maybe even higher).
Only 10 state ranks are offered for 4U every year, so it's also fiercely competitive.
Post by: beau77bro on October 25, 2017, 09:33:33 am
Glad we were able to help :D Best of luck in what's left
I've met a few math state rankers before in my degree at uni. Generally, a state ranking student gets a reported (i.e. aligned) mark of 100 or 99, because math exams are generally designed so that exceptionally high marks are achievable. A student who looks to state rank would need at least a raw mark of 97 (and maybe even higher).
Only 10 state ranks are offered for 4U every year, so it's also fiercely competitive.
oh damnnnnnnnn only 10? is that different to other courses?
Post by: RuiAce on October 25, 2017, 09:36:08 am
oh damnnnnnnnn only 10? is that different to other courses?Larger courses have 20
Post by: Natmo243 on October 25, 2017, 09:47:58 am
Fairly sure you got way more than this. That's an extremely harsh underestimate you're giving yourself.I might be, but I made some careless errors which I wasn't able to spot in the exam, and quite a few questions intimidated me so I naturally skipped them. Not to mention the fact that many questions were broken down, and sometimes if i couldn't get the first part I'd have to skip the rest (the partial fractions question for example).Hopefully I underestimated my self a bit.
Due to the fact that my class ended up rushing through most of the year (especially due to the fact that we started about halfway into term 4 and lost our original teacher a few weeks before half yearlies) hasn't helped much and cut into time which we could've used to learn how to approach some of the harder questions asked in the HSC. Also, we only have had 2 lessons a week to cover the basics which made the entire course all the more difficult. I don't know if its worth, or how to appeal for the fact that we started late and changed teachers throughout the year as I'm likely going to need some extra marks.
I personally think the most demoralizing thing is that our trial was nowhere near as difficult as any HSC exam, leading me to believe that what we were doing was sufficient, but when I started doing past papers I was in for a rude shock. I managed to do as far back as 2010 with what knowledge I had, but the best mark out of all of them I could get was 46% in the 2016 paper. When they decided to change it up this year, I absolutely crashed. I am first in assessment at the moment, so hopefully that should help me a bit with alignment.
I'm honestly glad to see that everyone did really well in such a weird paper, but I'm worrying that will go against me.
Post by: Natmo243 on October 25, 2017, 09:49:26 am
Larger courses have 20When I did IDT last year there were only 5 state ranks, selected from 11 band 6 students
Post by: RuiAce on October 25, 2017, 06:03:53 pm
I might be, but I made some careless errors which I wasn't able to spot in the exam, and quite a few questions intimidated me so I naturally skipped them. Not to mention the fact that many questions were broken down, and sometimes if i couldn't get the first part I'd have to skip the rest (the partial fractions question for example).Hopefully I underestimated my self a bit.It really isn't the time to think about this anymore; just forget that the paper happened.
Due to the fact that my class ended up rushing through most of the year (especially due to the fact that we started about halfway into term 4 and lost our original teacher a few weeks before half yearlies) hasn't helped much and cut into time which we could've used to learn how to approach some of the harder questions asked in the HSC. Also, we only have had 2 lessons a week to cover the basics which made the entire course all the more difficult. I don't know if its worth, or how to appeal for the fact that we started late and changed teachers throughout the year as I'm likely going to need some extra marks.
I personally think the most demoralizing thing is that our trial was nowhere near as difficult as any HSC exam, leading me to believe that what we were doing was sufficient, but when I started doing past papers I was in for a rude shock. I managed to do as far back as 2010 with what knowledge I had, but the best mark out of all of them I could get was 46% in the 2016 paper. When they decided to change it up this year, I absolutely crashed. I am first in assessment at the moment, so hopefully that should help me a bit with alignment.
I'm honestly glad to see that everyone did really well in such a weird paper, but I'm worrying that will go against me.
Although I do believe you should look into special consideration if it's possible. That sort of stuff is quite unfair.
If you don't mind me asking, can you PM me what school?
When I did IDT last year there were only 5 state ranks, selected from 11 band 6 studentsYeah on the contrary smaller cohorts only have 5
Post by: beau77bro on October 25, 2017, 06:13:25 pm
Post by: BradMate on October 27, 2017, 06:57:15 pm
Post by: RuiAce on November 05, 2017, 12:22:39 pm
what would 57-58% raw scale to?~78, give or take about 5 though.
would u lose marks for evaluating an integral it said not to? ;( lost a dumb dumb mark if soWell, they'd be pretty mean to not have any mercy on you whatsoever. But I can't say it's impossible
Post by: beau77bro on February 07, 2018, 11:14:36 pm