ATAR Notes: Forum
General Discussion => General Discussion Boards => News and Politics => Topic started by: PhoenixxFire on March 17, 2018, 10:05:22 pm
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Genuinely curious. All we really hear about in the media is things that make me hate labor (e.g. refugee policies) or good things, but the greens is already supporting it (e.g. gay marriage).
Is there policies that I don’t know about or don’t have to worry about because I’m a kid? Is it just because they’ve always voted labor?
Edit: Spelling
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Check their policies in comparison to liberal and you'll see why people vote for them.
Liberal favours high income earners and Labor lower income earners generally speaking.
Liberal party is also more conservative
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Sorry I wasn’t very clear, I meant why do people vote for labor rather than greens.
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Sorry I wasn’t very clear, I meant why do people vote for labor rather than greens.
Fundamental differences between the two. Labor is meme centre left.
Also there's a perception that voting for s political party that's not one of the major two parties is the same as throwing your vote away.
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Sorry I wasn’t very clear, I meant why do people vote for labor rather than greens.
Labor and Liberal while they are left wing and right wing respectably, they are both central. They sit very close to either side of the central ppint on the political spectrum. The greens are far more left wing than labor are
And while i am definietely left wing, the greens represent a wider degre of left wing politics and its not always ideal given our current situation. Like it sounds nice in a utopian world, but its not where we are; so staying more towards the center is probably why more people vote for them.
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Sorry I wasn’t very clear, I meant why do people vote for labor rather than greens.
Because the greens are considered "too crazy" and too "idealistic".
One such policy is... :
- Abolition of the World Trade Organisation, International Monetary Fund and World Bank unless they can be democratised
(which is totally crazy as they all do great work ... the world bank helps poor nations)
The greens are too far left (and I'm left winged)
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Because the greens are considered "too crazy" and too "idealistic".
One such policy is... :
- Abolition of the World Trade Organisation, International Monetary Fund and World Bank unless they can be democratised
(which is totally crazy as they all do great wirk... the world bank helps poor nations)
That's what they say but even if they were voted in I doubt they would pursue something like that in practice they're not that stupid.
Maybe being right wing myself I'm a bit biased but I think even the greens can see the economic ramifications it may have if those institutions are abolished.
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In the ideal situation, the greens policies sound great, but they're not always viable given our current real world context
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Unachievable policies are not a sign of political incompetence - they are demonstrating party values and beliefs to the voting populace and help us have an informed and hopefully more representative democracy.
As mentioned, people vote Labor because they feel that Labor best represents their views and values compared to the LNC or the Greens. For example, a good portion of (probably racist) people are passionate about the terrible treatment of refugees but still broadly support Labor values (worker’s rights and so on)... so why would those people vote Greens? The Greens do not best represent the individual views and values of those people, who as mentioned, are centre left on the political spectrum instead of far left.
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Also, the Greens have done a number of things lately (eg Lee Rhiannon, preferencing Libs) that have made many longstanding Greens supporters unhappy. The direction Di Natale is taking them in is not the direction every previous supporters wants them to go in. Labor has come out with a few surprisingly good policies lately (eg the franked dividends). So, you know, it's a constantly shifting game.
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As young people the policy output of labor is applicable more than ever. On a state level you see the government dramatically overhaul the legislation around renting, empowering renters to have some control over their circumstances (a landlord can’t tell you not to have a pet anymore yay!).
At the federal level, labor has announced some fairly ambitious tax policies that are designed redistribute wealth from the wealth (older people) to the less wealthy (younger people), and also apply negative pressure on housing prices (again good for young people). It’s worth noting that the Greens have opposed some of these policies.
There are very good reasons to vote Greens and not Labor. Most of these centre on the fact that the Greens are far more progressive as far as refugee policy is concerned and as far as climate change is concerned. You may not agree with their policies in these areas, but many will be attracted, in particular, to a party that opposes mandatory detention and off-shore processing, which is a particular sticking point.
The argument that the Greens are too radical also holds some currency. We saw the example about the WTO, for instance, which is genuinely moronic policy, and not actually unlike Brexit in its conception interestingly.
It’s also worth noting that up until recently the Greens was an anti-Vax party. The founder of the Greens (Bob Brown), and its leader up until about 2011-2012ish from memory, allowed an anti-vaccination organisation to use his office pro bono to coordinate its opposition to a policy of mandatory vaccination at the federal level. It was actually this organisation that succeeded in having conscientious objection inserted into the law, something which Dr Brown (yeah it gets better, he was a GP too!!) publicly supported.
Some of the most evocative motifs in politics are cancer patients and children... and it’s not even an exaggeration to say that the Greens, in our life time, supported a policy that contributed to their death.
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That renting legislation was complete bogus. As a landlord it left a sore spot for me and I'm ensuring I will never vote labor as long as I live.
Not that the liberals are any better mind you.
Just seeing the above reminded me of fhe recent changes to renting legislation, everyone believes landlords have it easy when it's one of the hardest and most stressful jobs in the world.
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That renting legislation was complete bogus. As a landlord it left a sore spot for me and I'm ensuring I will never vote labor as long as I live.
Not that the liberals are any better mind you.
Just seeing the above reminded me of fhe recent changes to renting legislation, everyone believes landlords have it easy when it's one of the hardest and most stressful jobs in the world.
k den
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That renting legislation was complete bogus. As a landlord it left a sore spot for me and I'm ensuring I will never vote labor as long as I live.
Not that the liberals are any better mind you.
Just seeing the above reminded me of fhe recent changes to renting legislation, everyone believes landlords have it easy when it's one of the hardest and most stressful jobs in the world.
Why does a single sore spot for you mean you'd never vote for a party again? Every party will do some things that harm you directly (even if that means they benefit others far more than they harm you, of course). And no party is perfect anyway.
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With all due respect,
I would prefer if this was called: why would anyone vote liberal
Out of curiosity, don't they only serve the wealthy minority? So why do they win the vote of the majority?
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With all due respect,
I would prefer if this was called: why would anyone vote liberal
Out of curiosity, don't they only survive the wealthy minority? So why do they win the vote of the majority?
I definitely agree with you haha - I live in the inner city though, liberal don’t have a chance here. I was asking specifically about labor’s win over greens in Batman.
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With all due respect,
I would prefer if this was called: why would anyone vote liberal
Out of curiosity, don't they only survive the wealthy minority? So why do they win the vote of the majority?
Because of policies, one's values and performance
A lot of peers that I knew, were disappointed by:
*Emissions trading scheme - Labor said climate change was the biggest threat,.. yet called off the ETS
*Insulation rebate debacle - 189 house fires. It was largely undregulated
*Schools stimulus program waste - Waste, mismanagement and inflexibility. Many complaints of redundant work and mismangement of funds.
*Mining tax - THat was a big failure as it didn't raise much revenue and went nowhere in years
*Nurses recruiting scheme -. Less than 1000 nurses were recruited.
*Border protection - Asylum seeker numbers expanded greatly, many deaths occurred and the government could not deal with it properly.
*Green loans scheme - A massive rort, which private companies abused
Many people I knew were unhappy about the amount of deaths and the seemingly successful people smuggling business. The ETS was a huge joke, it gave lots of people hope that there could be a huge direction but nothing came out of that.
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As for the 2016 election, many people weren't happy with SHorten's performance. He said a lot but did nothing (which can be applied today)
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Before I get any flame about being anti labour, I am aware of the current lib's failures and do expect them to lose in the next election. **cough cough* National failed Broadband Network, Same sex marriage
But for now, it does seem in the eyes of the people that Liberals are the lessers of two evils.
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“Said a lot but did nothing”... surely that’s a line reserved for people who campaign but then go on to win government? 😂
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The argument that the Greens are too radical also holds some currency. We saw the example about the WTO, for instance, which is genuinely moronic policy, and not actually unlike Brexit in its conception interestingly.
It’s also worth noting that up until recently the Greens was an anti-Vax party. The founder of the Greens (Bob Brown), and its leader up until about 2011-2012ish from memory, allowed an anti-vaccination organisation to use his office pro bono to coordinate its opposition to a policy of mandatory vaccination at the federal level. It was actually this organisation that succeeded in having conscientious objection inserted into the law, something which Dr Brown (yeah it gets better, he was a GP too!!) publicly supported.
Some of the most evocative motifs in politics are cancer patients and children... and it’s not even an exaggeration to say that the Greens, in our life time, supported a policy that contributed to their death.
I didn't know this about the anti-vax support! Thanks for sharing. Very interesting.
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Why does a single sore spot for you mean you'd never vote for a party again? Every party will do some things that harm you directly (even if that means they benefit others far more than they harm you, of course). And no party is perfect anyway.
Liberal party hasn't really done anything that harmed me directly.
They've done moronic things but a policy that has impacted me negatively I cannot think of one.
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With all due respect,
I would prefer if this was called: why would anyone vote liberal
Out of curiosity, don't they only serve the wealthy minority? So why do they win the vote of the majority?
Generally agreed they can manage the economy really well which is good for job growth and various other things.
Their values appeal to heaps of people too, imo labor wastes taxpayers too often. Although my family has voted for them on occasion and I've agreed with them sometimes they're the better option.
Not recently though, I'm not happy with the direction they are going federal wise.
Imho I think Daniel Andrews is doing a good job for Victoria though and I agree with many of his policies.
Federal election I will always vote Liiberal from now on, too much at stake if other parties win it.
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I didn't know this about the anti-vax support! Thanks for sharing. Very interesting.
It’s worthwhile noting that the position of the current leader is very supportive of vaccination and that Greens’ policy reflects this.
Although Bob Brown provided resources to the anti-vaccination lobby, and even went so far as the publicly endorse the work of an anti-vaccination book, he has since denounced anti-vaxers. To my knowledge, he has never acknowledged his role in empowering these groups.
Either way, I think it serves to highlight that the greens do hold and have held policy positions that almost certainly run contrary to the interests of the majority of people. Without the wanky tone of this message, some of their policy is just fucking mental.