ATAR Notes: Forum

VCE Stuff => Victorian Technical Score Discussion => Topic started by: lakvinu on June 28, 2018, 01:37:44 pm

Title: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: lakvinu on June 28, 2018, 01:37:44 pm
Hello,

For my application sac i got  40% and i am in the bottom 1/3 of the school. In the next two sacs if i get 90-100% and get A+ in both my exams. Will i be able to achieve a study score of 38+. Im confident in my maths and believe i can get 90%+ in both of my two sacs. My school is currently ranked around 300. Pls tell me.
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: pha0015 on June 28, 2018, 01:42:27 pm
I'm in a very similar position to you, both in SAC marks and school ranking,  and also believe I can get above 38. I'm sure you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: Nexica on June 29, 2018, 07:40:20 pm
If you manage to get 90-100% on the rest of your SACs and the exam, then yes, you'll very likely get a study score of 38+. Possibly more, depends on what type of mathematics you're doing.
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: Meddling on July 01, 2018, 01:12:03 am
Remember that exam for maths take up large proportion of the marks. So if you do well in the exam, you will most likely be fine.

First sacs for methods is not a valid estimation of how you will do in the subject. Everyone has a strong area in maths, and im sure you do too. So make sure you try your hardest from now and ace the exam. I had 65 percent for my first sac, but got 95%+ for the remaining sacs. So dont worry. Just make sure you increase your ranking. I achieved 45 for methods despite the horrible start in the subject ;D
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: secretweapon on July 01, 2018, 10:10:30 am
Remember that exam for maths take up large proportion of the marks. So if you do well in the exam, you will most likely be fine.

First sacs for methods is not a valid estimation of how you will do in the subject. Everyone has a strong area in maths, and im sure you do too. So make sure you try your hardest from now and ace the exam. I had 65 percent for my first sac, but got 95%+ for the remaining sacs. So dont worry. Just make sure you increase your ranking. I achieved 45 for methods despite the horrible start in the subject ;D

How do you improve results in methods?
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: Meddling on July 01, 2018, 12:16:50 pm

How do you improve results in methods?

You can only improve in methods if you put in hardwork. Sure, sone people are better at maths than others and thus have easier time in maths.

When you do practice questions (like a bunch of them!), i liked to correct them at the end, and put a red box around the ones i got wrong, and went back to each one of them after correcting the answers. I'd then evaluate what i did wrong, or if it was a new approach needed to solve it, and put a small note next to that question detailing my mistake or the new approach. It is time consuming, but it was very affective when it came to that same question because i'd instantly recall the note i made last time.

It is important to keep going back and refresh your memory each week until you can recall it instantly.

Doing a topic summary at the end of the week also allows you to prepare for sacs and such easier. For example, I would do a topic summary each week and commit them into memory, and read through them again after a day, 3 days, then a week (where you would have another summary to do). This technique is called spaxed repetition i believe;

Hope it helps!
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: secretweapon on July 01, 2018, 12:28:30 pm
You can only improve in methods if you put in hardwork. Sure, sone people are better at maths than others and thus have easier time in maths.

When you do practice questions (like a bunch of them!), i liked to correct them at the end, and put a red box around the ones i got wrong, and went back to each one of them after correcting the answers. I'd then evaluate what i did wrong, or if it was a new approach needed to solve it, and put a small note next to that question detailing my mistake or the new approach. It is time consuming, but it was very affective when it came to that same question because i'd instantly recall the note i made last time.

It is important to keep going back and refresh your memory each week until you can recall it instantly.

Doing a topic summary at the end of the week also allows you to prepare for sacs and such easier. For example, I would do a topic summary each week and commit them into memory, and read through them again after a day, 3 days, then a week (where you would have another summary to do). This technique is called spaxed repetition i believe;

Hope it helps!
But what if i'm putting in effort but still not doing well?
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: notes3075 on July 01, 2018, 12:53:48 pm
Hello,

For my application sac i got  40% and i am in the bottom 1/3 of the school. In the next two sacs if i get 90-100% and get A+ in both my exams. Will i be able to achieve a study score of 38+. Im confident in my maths and believe i can get 90%+ in both of my two sacs. My school is currently ranked around 300. Pls tell me.

Howdy there, I was in a similar position to you a few years ago when I was doing VCE. And yes, it's definitely possible to climb up the ranks in 4 months, but it'll require a ton of hard work on your behalf. Question is: are you a year 11 doing Methods as your chosen 3/4, or are you a 'conventional' year 12? I was bottom of my class in VCE 3/4 Business Management in year 11 (yes it's way easier than methods) but I grinded my way to a raw 41 when I should have only scraped 30.

However, Methods is a completely different animal (let alone if it's not your only 3/4), but that doesn't mean you can't achieve your goal. And having failed the unit 2 methods tech-active exam (well they didn't dish out "fails", but I got below 50% in it), I proceeded to do as many practice questions as I could, whether from the Checkpoints booklet, the textbook, or from past VCAA exams. I immediately became a formidable force when it came to SACs, achieving around 85-90% throughout the whole year - I assume your SACs should be on the slightly easier side (I came from Melbourne High School).

But what if i'm putting in effort but still not doing well?

Somewhat blunt, but if you're still not doing well, then it just means that you didn't try hard enough. Advice to you: cut out the time you currently spend on YouTube, Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, and other forms of clickbait by at least 80%. It'll free up so much time that you never knew you had. There's no time to waste if you want to catch up. You gotta go hard or go home.

And for motivation (probably for all viewing this thread): if you want to get into your first preference uni and course, then there's no justification for wasting time on the aforementioned, and there's no excuse to lose motivation on your study score and ATAR goals. People say that the ATAR is just a number and that you shouldn't care about it too much, but it's actually very important. It sets you up for success in uni studies and in your career, as it forms the foundation for effective and efficient learning, and a strong work ethic. As the MHS motto says, "Honour the Work".

Finish strong guys, go get it. Anything's possible if you work at it.  8)
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: secretweapon on July 01, 2018, 12:58:24 pm
Howdy there, I was in a similar position to you a few years ago when I was doing VCE. And yes, it's definitely possible to climb up the ranks in 4 months, but it'll require a ton of hard work on your behalf. Question is: are you a year 11 doing Methods as your chosen 3/4, or are you a 'conventional' year 12? I was bottom of my class in VCE 3/4 Business Management in year 11 (yes it's way easier than methods) but I grinded my way to a raw 41 when I should have only scraped 30.

However, Methods is a completely different animal (let alone if it's not your only 3/4), but that doesn't mean you can't achieve your goal. And having failed the unit 2 methods tech-active exam (well they didn't dish out "fails", but I got below 50% in it), I proceeded to do as many practice questions as I could, whether from the Checkpoints booklet, the textbook, or from past VCAA exams. I immediately became a formidable force when it came to SACs, achieving around 85-90% throughout the whole year - as your school is "ranked around 300", I assume your SACs should be on the easier side (I came from Melbourne High School).

To conclude on a somewhat blunt note (apologies in advance), but if you're still not doing well, then it just means that you didn't try hard enough. Advice to you: cut out the time you currently spend on YouTube, Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, and other forms of clickbait by at least 80%. It'll free up so much time that you never knew you had. There's no time to waste if you want to catch up. You gotta go hard or go home.

And for motivation: if you want to get into your first preference uni and course, then there's no justification for wasting time on the aforementioned, and there's no excuse to lose motivation on your study score and ATAR goals. People say that the ATAR is just a number and that you shouldn't care about it too much, but it's actually very important. It sets you up for success in uni studies and in your career, as it forms the foundation for effective and efficient learning, and a strong work ethic. As the MHS motto says, "Honour the Work".

Finish strong mate, go get it. Anything's possible if you work at it.  8)
My school isn't ranked 300, what made you think it was? :P
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: notes3075 on July 01, 2018, 01:00:00 pm
My school isn't ranked 300, what made you think it was? :P

Soz, that was to lakvinu, not you  :P (edited version of my post above)
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: secretweapon on July 01, 2018, 01:02:23 pm
Soz, that was to lakvinu, not you  :P (edited version of my post above)
Just wondering, do you know by how much a reasonably strong cohort's methods sacs scale up by?
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: notes3075 on July 01, 2018, 01:09:55 pm
Just wondering, do you know by how much a reasonably strong cohort's methods sacs scale up by?


Good question. I'll introduce you to my struggles with VCE English. I started with an A+ on the oral presentation at the year start, then got C's in all other subsequent ones, and a B+/A on the final SAC. Funnily enough, GA1 showed an A, and GA2 showed an A+, but I cooked the exam (GA3) with a B+...I was doing methods practice exams the night before haha cos I gave up - don't do that).

And for both spesh and methods, I remember doing very bad in a "SAC-week" SAC at the end of term 2 (the tech active parts of both, funnily enough), but the results showed straight A+'s.

So yes, reasonably strong cohorts can get scaled up by over one letter grade.

Hope that helps
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: secretweapon on July 01, 2018, 01:24:19 pm
Good question. I'll introduce you to my struggles with VCE English. I started with an A+ on the oral presentation at the year start, then got C's in all other subsequent ones, and a B+/A on the final SAC. Funnily enough, GA1 showed an A, and GA2 showed an A+, but I cooked the exam (GA3) with a B+...I was doing methods practice exams the night before haha cos I gave up - don't do that).

And for both spesh and methods, I remember doing very bad in a "SAC-week" SAC at the end of term 2 (the tech active parts of both, funnily enough), but the results showed straight A+'s.

So yes, reasonably strong cohorts can get scaled up by over one letter grade.

Hope that helps
would a methods cohort that has ~30-40 40+ raw scores each year (including ~2 raw 50s) definitely be considered a strong cohort?
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: Nexica on July 01, 2018, 01:59:57 pm
would a methods cohort that has ~30-40 40+ raw scores each year (including ~2 raw 50s) definitely be considered a strong cohort?
I'd say so. If there's that many high study scores, the cohort is above average.
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: Sine on July 01, 2018, 02:18:03 pm
would a methods cohort that has ~30-40 40+ raw scores each year (including ~2 raw 50s) definitely be considered a strong cohort?
I'd say so. If there's that many high study scores, the cohort is above average.
Definitely a strong cohort - It would've been a top 7 school in methods last year. However, a low rank wouldn't be scaled up too much. Average students would benefit more with the effect lessening at each end of the bell curve.
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: secretweapon on July 01, 2018, 02:20:45 pm
Definitely a strong cohort - It would've been a top 7 school in methods last year. However, a low rank wouldn't be scaled up too much. Average students would benefit more with the effect lessening at each end of the bell curve.
Does this mean that the sac results will be scaled up?
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: Sine on July 01, 2018, 02:24:05 pm
Does this mean that the sac results will be scaled up?
not necessarily, strong cohorts don't give you can inherent advantage of being scaled up. You don't gain any extra benefit from it, your sac scores will ultimately be moderated according to exam performance and the raw sac scores. Both of these are highly variable so it can potentially be scaled down/up or stay the same. However, strong cohorts usually are given harder sacs in order to properly separate students (and/or to extend them) which results in lower sac scores which need to be scaled up by vcaa.
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: secretweapon on July 01, 2018, 02:28:36 pm
not necessarily, strong cohorts don't give you can inherent advantage of being scaled up. You don't gain any extra benefit from it, your sac scores will ultimately be moderated according to exam performance and the raw sac scores. Both of these are highly variable so it can potentially be scaled down/up or stay the same. However, strong cohorts usually are given harder sacs in order to properly separate students (and/or to extend them) which results in lower sac scores which need to be scaled up by vcaa.
So harder sacs aren't a guarantee of scaling up, even at melbourne high, macrob etc?
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: Sine on July 01, 2018, 02:31:53 pm
So harder sacs aren't a guarantee of scaling up, even at melbourne high, macrob etc?
well not 100% guaranteed if you are ranked extremely low but it is very likely to be scaled up if you are at least ranked low/mid--> rank 1
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: secretweapon on July 01, 2018, 02:33:50 pm
well not 100% guaranteed if you are ranked extremely low but it is very likely to be scaled up if you are at least ranked low/mid--> rank 1
What does the bolded part mean?
Also, is it possible to predict how much a methods cohort that has ~275 students with ~30-40 40+ raw scores each year (including ~2 raw 50s) would be scaled up by (if any)?
Also, this mind sound unrealistic, but is it at all possible to get C's in sacs, and then get high a+ in both exam 1 and 2 for methods?
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: Meddling on July 01, 2018, 05:53:05 pm
To my knowledge you cannot calculate how much your score will scale due to your cohort.

Just do well from here and forth, its best not to worry about these things and to just devote hard work into your studies. If you are putting in hard effort already but arent improving, you may need another approach to study, or you might actually not be studying enough relative to your cohort.

Best of luck!
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: secretweapon on July 01, 2018, 06:14:56 pm
To my knowledge you cannot calculate how much your score will scale due to your cohort.

Just do well from here and forth, its best not to worry about these things and to just devote hard work into your studies. If you are putting in hard effort already but arent improving, you may need another approach to study, or you might actually not be studying enough relative to your cohort.

Best of luck!
Generally the sacs have difficult questions that are harder than textbook level. Is there a way to specifically  prepare for these questions?
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: Lear on July 01, 2018, 06:43:47 pm

Generally the sacs have difficult questions that are harder than textbook level. Is there a way to specifically  prepare for these questions?

Past SACs and past VCAA questions.
Also on the question about SAC scaling, I would strongly suggest not becoming infatuated with the numbers game. Too many kids fall in the trap of always wondering about the ‘minimum’ score they need to get in SACs to get x or how much they need for each subject to get an TAR of x. Instead, you should be absolutely trying to the very best you can so at the end of the year you can truly be content with the work you’ve put in. You get one significant shot at VCE, make the most of it.
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: Sine on July 02, 2018, 05:13:48 pm
What does the bolded part mean?
Also, is it possible to predict how much a methods cohort that has ~275 students with ~30-40 40+ raw scores each year (including ~2 raw 50s) would be scaled up by (if any)?
Also, this mind sound unrealistic, but is it at all possible to get C's in sacs, and then get high a+ in both exam 1 and 2 for methods?
basically being in the top 75% of your cohort.
There is no way to predict (properly) the scaling of sacs because they are ultimately dependent on your cohorts exam performance which still hasn't happened.

Obviously it's possible to get C's and then high A+'s but that would mean a dramatic change in study and attitude. You would probably get high 30's with that combination of scores.

It's best to try your best without just trying to do minimum effort to achieve your goals
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: secretweapon on July 02, 2018, 05:21:28 pm
basically being in the top 75% of your cohort.
There is no way to predict (properly) the scaling of sacs because they are ultimately dependent on your cohorts exam performance which still hasn't happened.

Obviously it's possible to get C's and then high A+'s but that would mean a dramatic change in study and attitude. You would probably get high 30's with that combination of scores.

It's best to try your best without just trying to do minimum effort to achieve your goals
I know that I shouldn't be worrying too much about scaling of sacs, but are you basically saying that if your cohort as a whole performs really well on the exams, then your sacs get scaled up regardless of cohort, school, etc?
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: lakvinu on October 13, 2018, 04:45:21 pm
Hello,

Thank you all for ur replies. I managed to get 2nd place and first place in my next 2 sacs. Im just wondering would vcaa think that my first sac was an outlier. I mean i got bottom of the class for my first sac and then got the best in the next 2 sacs. If i managed to do really well in the exam would vcaa not consider my score for the first sac. Would they think it was an outlier or am i just being hopeful.
Thank you everyone for ur replies. Really appreciated it.
Title: Re: Im in the bottom 1/3 of the school. Can i still get a study score of 38
Post by: Sine on October 13, 2018, 04:50:11 pm
Hello,

Thank you all for ur replies. I managed to get 2nd place and first place in my next 2 sacs. Im just wondering would vcaa think that my first sac was an outlier. I mean i got bottom of the class for my first sac and then got the best in the next 2 sacs. If i managed to do really well in the exam would vcaa not consider my score for the first sac. Would they think it was an outlier or am i just being hopeful.
Thank you everyone for ur replies. Really appreciated it.
They get sent your SAC grade between 0 and 100 and not the scores of each sacs and even this score from 0 to 100 they don't care about - they only consider your ranking in the cohort.