ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => VCE English Studies => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE English & EAL => Topic started by: costargh on January 21, 2008, 07:11:46 pm
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Discussion to go here.
I thought I made this topic the other night but now it appears to be gone or I just didn't hit post properly lol.
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I saw the topic yesterday....lol
I never really engaged with the book. Its something about Thomas More and not approving a king's divorce or something...
Then Cromwell or Rich or someone messed it up and Thomas More got executed.
I just don't get it.
Can someone explain to me how they decided to get More executed?
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In short,
The King wanted More executed because More couldn't betray his religious beliefs and conscience to approve of the King's divorce to marry his mistress.
The King then wanted him executed because he wanted to make an example of him and because he knew how the society respected More and his beliefs so if he couldn't have More suppotring him he didn't want More at all.
They charged him on purgery, despite the fact that More never actually said he disapproved of the marriage, he just never agreed with it.
That's a very basic view, I haven't thought of this since my English exam.
I hated this book to begin with but once I read about the history and looked into the themes it began my favourite text for the year.
Good luck
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On first reading I found it very confusing. I had done some prior research on the history but it still didn't seem to come together. Upon second reading, I realised a lot of things I didn't quite catch on to when I first read it. Mainly to do with some of the less major characters like Margaret, Cromwell and Rich.
I will probably end up doing this play in my exam because I find the central theme of "choosing what is right" as opposed to "doing what you need to do" very compelling. I admire the character of More because in the face of execution he still refuses to approve of the King's divorce knowing what the consequences will be if he does not. It is his true dedication to God and wit when it comes to the law that makes him such an unusual yet likable character from my eyes.
I have heard that some people don't like the character of More because they think he should have just said he approved of the marriage to save his life but the fact he didn't is what makes him so likable in my eyes.
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Bump.
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Bump.
What do you want to know about the text?
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I don't specifically want to know anything. I just would like thoughts on it and Thomas More. I have my oral on Thursday.
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I don't specifically want to know anything. I just would like thoughts on it and Thomas More. I have my oral on Thursday.
I really enjoyed studying AMFAS, it is a short enough text to know in great detail, but with themes that allow for great depth of writing.
A key part to performing highly in the text is to take note of the minor characters, any piece that only focuses on More, Cromwell and Rich cannot demonstrate to the marker your perceptive understanding of the text.
I would be happy to look over any pieces you have written on the text and offer some constructive advice.
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I don't specifically want to know anything. I just would like thoughts on it and Thomas More. I have my oral on Thursday.
I really enjoyed studying AMFAS, it is a short enough text to know in great detail, but with themes that allow for great depth of writing.
A key part to performing highly in the text is to take note of the minor characters, any piece that only focuses on More, Cromwell and Rich cannot demonstrate to the marker your perceptive understanding of the text.
I would be happy to look over any pieces you have written on the text and offer some constructive advice.
My oral is focused on More, Cromwell and Rich (each will have half the focus of More) and The Common Man will have another half of the focus if that makes sense.
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i really enjoyed the book one of the better if not best i have studied throughout highschool
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Does anyone know why when Chapuys likens More to the "English Socrates" he replies with “Socrates! I’ve no taste for hemlock.”
I don't get it.
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Check the notes section as the back of the book I think it says something about that line.
clinton_09 should be able to help you further with that line.
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Does anyone know why when Chapuys likens More to the "English Socrates" he replies with “Socrates! I’ve no taste for hemlock.”
I don't get it.
Socrates was similar to More, he was a martyr, and More is basically saying that he does not want to die for his consciouss/integrity/beleifs etc
Socrates was against his country and was sentenced to death by drinking poison (hemlock) because he opposed his country and the beleifs of the chaniging society, like More.
So I think that he is saying that he doesnt want to cause his own death by opposing his country.
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Does anyone know why when Chapuys likens More to the "English Socrates" he replies with “Socrates! I’ve no taste for hemlock.”
I don't get it.
Socrates was similar to More, he was a martyr, and More is basically saying that he does not want to die for his consciouss/integrity/beleifs etc
Your wrong (Chapyus said it not More).. Socrates died from the poison, hemlock.. that's all I can get out of it sorry (Clinton will reply soon - or someone else with better knowledge of that line).
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Edit: Woops. I don't think More wanted to die a martyr and he was not himself a martyr but Chapuys interpreted his action to be martyrdom.
I actually agree with daniel99 and that is how I have interpreted the text. More did not want to die a martyr. This is displayed in More's actions to fight to the very end.
But thats not what I mean. I actually want to know what the response “Socrates! I’ve no taste for hemlock.” means. What is hemlock?
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Hemlock is poison...So he is saying that he does not want to cause his own death.."I have no taste for hemlock", like Socrates did lol????
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I actually agree with daniel99 and that is how I have interpreted the text. More did not want to die a martyr. This is displayed in More's actions to fight to the very end.
But thats not what I mean. I actually want to know what the response “Socrates! I’ve no taste for hemlock.” means. What is hemlock?
Hemlock is a poison (herbal poison to cure medical issues)
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Does anyone know why when Chapuys likens More to the "English Socrates" he replies with “Socrates! I’ve no taste for hemlock.”
I don't get it.
Socrates was similar to More, he was a martyr, and More is basically saying that he does not want to die for his consciouss/integrity/beleifs etc
Your wrong (Chapyus said it not More).. Socrates died from the poison, hemlock.. that's all I can get out of it sorry (Clinton will reply soon - or someone else with better knowledge of that line).
Chapuys: something something "English socrates"
More: something something “Socrates! I’ve no taste for hemlock.”
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hmm from memory it had something to do with change, bit rusty with that quote can't really remember its meaning. costargh if your book is the one with the green cover, look at the back in the notes section incredibly handy i must say
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Yellow cover.
I might post my oral up later depending on how I feel.
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What is hemlock?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conium
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From my own personal interpretation it seems to me that More really doesn't care whether the divorce goes ahead, and he does his best not to portray himself as a Martyr. More knows that there is no way that he will be able to sway the Kings opinion and it would be against his own morals to try and do so, but as an alternative, More can control that that part inside that is his conscience. More does not wish to change the world with his beliefs and convictions because to do so would contradictory. He merely wished to know that he had stayed true to himself and he thought this could be done just by staying silent. Yet More was so well renowned that his opinion had to be made public. More merely wanted to live his life knowing that he had stayed true to his conscience, he had no intention of being a martyr. Hence his frustration when Chapuys commended his stance against the King.
What I'd like to know is what all that hawk stooping from a cloud stuff was. it went straight over my head.
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Can someone go a bit deeper with the meaning of this quote for me.
"The Sixteenth Century is the Century of the Common Man. Like all the other centuries"
Why is this significant?