ATAR Notes: Forum

QCE Stuff => Queensland Education Discussion => Topic started by: Bri MT on October 09, 2019, 10:32:49 am

Title: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: Bri MT on October 09, 2019, 10:32:49 am

Rui's Ask Me Anything!

The one and the only Rui, your QCE maths lecturer is holding an Ask Me Anything; he'll start replying at 3:15 pm on Friday the 11th of October



Here's somethings you might not know about Rui: He's not only an academic achiever, he's also well rounded with involvement in uni social life as a committee member on the UNSW mathematics society, mad piano skills, and ridiculously fast typing ability (ok - maybe that doesn't fit in here but how does anyone type more than 170 words a minute??).

Here's some of the reasons you may want to hear from this math legend:
🔥 Achieved 94+ in all 3 of his math subjects and received a 98.60 ATAR
🔥 Studying Bachelor of Science (Advanced Mathematics)/Bachelor of Science (Computer science) and is on the Dean's list for his outstanding uni results
🔥 Years of experience teaching maths to high school students
🔥 Education coordinator for UNSW Mathematics Society
🔥 Heaps of experience on the forums helping students out and explaining complex concepts

We've been asked this before on other AMAs so YES you can ask ANY question - so long as it abides by our community rules (which basically come down to being respectful and keeping the community a nice place for everyone)

This might include things like:
- How did you prepare for exams?
- What's your favourite formula?
- I'm currently struggling and I don't know how to improve - thoughts?
- What your favourite video game?



IMPORTANT: In order to ask a question, you will have to click here and make an ATAR Notes account.

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: RuiAce on October 11, 2019, 03:10:06 pm

Let's start this shindig 5 minutes early, shall we?

Start asking away! :)

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: simear02 on October 11, 2019, 03:26:32 pm

hey I have two questions

1. how did you manage doing more than one maths? did you study for them differently?
2. what's science like at uni?

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: Erutepa on October 11, 2019, 03:40:52 pm

What's the best thing about being a tutesmart tutor and what's the most challenging thing?

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: Loren_T on October 11, 2019, 03:47:08 pm

Quote

🔥 Years of experience teaching maths to high school students
🔥 Education coordinator for UNSW Mathematics Society
🔥 Heaps of experience on the forums helping students out and explaining complex concepts

How do you help students who are struggling a bit (like me!) with maths become more familiar with a concept and to be prepared for sacs/ exams?

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: sweetiepi on October 11, 2019, 03:51:24 pm

When studying for any maths, what is your go-to study technique, and why?
What is the best chocolate, and why?

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: JerryMouse2019 on October 11, 2019, 03:56:56 pm

Hello Rui,

I wanted to know what you would do if you were on the verge of losing hope in getting better at maths. I've never experienced amazing success in maths so my persistence and motivation for the subject has become lower.

What do you believe would be a great way to make myself become more interested in the subject?

If you have any advice then please let me know :)

Thanks,

Kind Regards
JerryMouse2019

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: RuiAce on October 11, 2019, 04:03:08 pm

Quote from: simear02 on October 11, 2019, 03:26:32 pm

hey I have two questions

1. how did you manage doing more than one maths? did you study for them differently?
2. what's science like at uni?

Hey :)

1. I guess for me I worked around the system. Was lucky to be accelerated in maths in high school so I only had to do one a year! So I'm mostly answering this from:
a) My experience actually tutoring many of my students in multiple maths courses and what I found out worked well.
b) My coursework at uni, because I've had to juggle 3 maths subjects several times there now.

So I always stress that first and foremost, treat the two as separate subjects. That's also true even for Methods and Spesh, where the subjects somehow build onto each other. I always hear stories about how students get really disproportionate marks in their mathematics subjects and more often than not, I later find that they put all their work into studying for the one. (Believe it or not, some students I know who studied a lot for the more difficult courses ended up not performing as well in the relatively easier one!)

- If you use studying timetables, allocate time for each of your maths courses independently. And focus on that one for that block of time.
- During the lead-up to an exam, where you're in a hurry to do as many questions as possible, again balance out how long you spend on each of the subjects.
- Basically, never say "I'm gonna go study maths now". Always say you're gonna study "general maths", or "maths methods", or "specialist maths" now, so that you stay focused!

Whether or not I approached studying for each of the subjects differently though, I'd say surprisingly not by much! Provided I split up my time for each mathematics subject I was doing, I found no major issue adapting the same technique to all of them! Now for me this was very boring, because this was my strategy:
1. past papers
2. go back to 1.

But it's kinda based off just how maths works really. Especially at the high school level, mathematics is by nature skills based. At its core, it's a lot about training your brain to be able to adapt to new scenarios using the concepts that you know. Being in the new QCE system, (it honestly pains me to say this but) you don't get that luxury. So there's more or less some compromises you need to consider:
- Looking through past exams for VCE.
- Where possible, also looking through past exams for HSC.
- Occasionally redo'ing textbook questions.
- And of course, the sample QCAA paper

In saying that, you may find that approaching these subjects differently might work better for you! Feel free to ask more about this though!
__________________________________________________________________________

2. I suppose maths is a bit different to most other sciences in that there's less working in a science laboratory (and perhaps more working in a computing laboratory), but I must enjoy it enough given that I've kept through with it for a good 4 years now, haha! For me, I've found the maths degree to build in two directions:
a) Why things work (proofs can be quite nice surprisingly)
b) How things get used (for example I see myself using a lot of statistical techniques in more practical examples now)

Computer science is complicated AF though because it's such a versatile degree! There's a lot you could do with it, for example software development, programming the software, programming and algorithmic challenges and etc.

You could say that inevitably a science degree focuses on understanding the world around us, at least in some sense. Obviously depending on what major you do you choose what field(s) you want to specialise in, but it's definitely a powerful methods of communicating the things around us. :)

(Although, probably worth mentioning that labs for science disciplines like chemistry, biology and physics do get far more intense!)

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: RuiAce on October 11, 2019, 04:14:30 pm

Quote from: Erutepa on October 11, 2019, 03:40:52 pm

What's the best thing about being a tutesmart tutor and what's the most challenging thing?

Hey :)

Haha, TuteSmart! Without a doubt, I would say that the best thing about TuteSmart are the students. There's two sides to this.

1. At least in my one year of tutoring so far, I've been blessed with students that genuinely care about their studies and show their interest and motivation to learn. In theory, (and sadly in some schools also in practice,) there are students that actually don't try at all, and teaching them can be a nightmare. Never have I found this concern in my classes.

2. The students were fun. Sure occasionally they'd be noisy, but look, like I'm any better with that. As much as I do expect some reasonable level of professional tutor-student relationship, I appreciate that to a noticeable extent they could treat me like just a friend, and vice versa. I don't like having lessons be 100% me saying this this that that and risking boring the students. I like the lively nature of occasionally having a mini personal story, or cracking a good joke/memes in the classroom. Keeping the environment boring doesn't really increase the students' retention rate; the vibrant atmosphere is just necessary.
 
(Obviously this was not something that was developed instantly. It came over time. But I'm glad it did.)
(And dear my managers, yes I still taught.)

Plus on reflection, it really meant a lot when sometimes I'd be drowning in my workload at uni, and then their smiles/laughter somehow helps repair my mood for the rest of the day.

As for the challenge side? Well, for me it had to have been the actual question preparation. Writing original questions is difficult (and for some MX2 topics, near impossible for an innocent undergrad like me!!!). As a rule of thumb, answering the maths question is always eons easier than having to pluck something new out of thin air.

A close second was probably the limited time frame, so I felt I taught everything rushed. But with the 6 extra weeks at TuteSmart now, I feel less fussed about this. ;)

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: RuiAce on October 11, 2019, 04:42:36 pm

Quote from: Loren_T on October 11, 2019, 03:47:08 pm

How do you help students who are struggling a bit (like me!) with maths become more familiar with a concept and to be prepared for sacs/ exams?

Hey :)

So I would start by identifying crystal clear where the struggle is! (Or are.) And having them jotted down somewhere.

Now from student to student, this could be just one critical point, or enough to fill up a double-sided A4 cheat sheet. That's fine though, because the point is now you know where your troubles are! I've found that just knowing where the problems are doesn't really create any significant impact on what you're gonna do about it. Whereas after going through all of that brainstorm, there's now a TODO-list staring right back at you.

I'll be honest here - this list is difficult to make. I personally would find it sickening in such a position if I had to do it myself. I find that for these issues, having someone to bounce back and forth where the issues are, and just take you down the road (say, through your textbook or assessment papers). Doesn't have to be anyone in particular, just someone that I know won't actually make me feel hurt for making the list. (An occasional piece of banter should be fine though provided you can accept it.)

There is also large flexibility in how the list can be made. You could go for concept-by-concept, or you could go for question-by-question. Or a mix of the two. Or even a mixture of other things relevant as well!

That aside, it's now time to go through it. And the most important thing is to run through it bit by bit. This can be potentially time draining AF, so depending on just how much time you have at your disposal, you may find urges to speed up here and there. That's fine, provided you're sure of exactly what it is you're trying to be more hurried on.

There are some tips I'll mention with actually understanding concepts here:
- Know the definitions firstly. Definitions are things that exist because we said so, and hence we automatically assume that they are okay. For example, \(a^x = b\) by definition is equivalent to \(x = \log_a(b)\).
- Then identify the theorems. Yes that includes the stuff on your formula sheet, but also anything else that may come in handy. (Bit of a generic thing though - this is more of a case-by-case scenario.)
- Review worked examples. They exist so you can see how the results are applied!

At any every point in time, the focus is on the current dot point you're trying to tick off. Start by doing everything you can to get that particular point checked off first. Of course, you have a variety of options.
- At the very least, you should give it a shot first yourself. But perhaps don't spend too much time there, because after all the struggle was the reason why it made its way onto the list anyway.
- If possible, try to dig up old resources (or even just previous chapters of a textbook). See if anything you've learnt in the past, and perhaps just forgotten, could potentially be useful.
- Start asking for help, but balance it out.
  - Us on this forum (obviously ;))
  - Your teacher
  - Your peers (preferably those that you know you can be friendly with!)
Make sure that when asking for help, you explain to them what you already know. Though not always the case, it's quite often that gaps in learning are in very specific areas. Communicate what you know, and ask them to take over at the exact point where you get stuck.
- Ideally, straight after getting help, try to approach a similar problem! Because it's maths, you'll likely have sample working out there to cross-compare with now. (But keep in mind that a similar question may require an extra trick! Classic example, flipping an inequality due to multiplying a negative number.)

In saying that, bursts are still not the answer, but rather consistency is key. Once you check off a point, it is probably true that you don't need to review it immediately afterwards. But after going through some more dot points (depending on your pace, this could be say 3 or 15 dot points later), go back and do one small question on an earlier dot point. Make sure you still have it in you.

At the very least, the initial steps should be based off understanding! But of course, the closer you get to exam day the more you'll be interested in dealing with exam questions instead. So you could also consider some of the following:
- Actually start tailoring the list towards specific questions rather than concepts
- The way I see it, more advanced problems in mathematics require two key attributes. Intuition, and bravery.
  - Intuition: At its core, maths is about finding patterns. It's about recognising when what is useful. Textbooks are intended to go topic by topic, but nobody says that's a requirement in the exam! Ideally, you should always think about WHY something works, not just how to use a certain formula/technique. It's a skill that needs to be developed over time, but by contemplating the WHY more, you would find yourself in a lot less discomfort in the high-pressure environment!
  - Bravery: Sometimes the computations are ridiculous. But I just want to say, I've fought through nasty algebra spanning across two or three lines, but with enough patience and confidence I actually saw my way to the correct answer. And oddly enough, it happens more often than not!
- As mentioned above, shrug off the topic by topic thing. Start mixing things up - go between topics in your revision.

At least, that's a starting point for you to consider! You may bump into newer questions later on!

As an extra: Also consider how effective your learning environment is. If you're not enjoying how your teacher is teaching the concept, something else may be beneficial. You'd be surprised at how much one can learn off things like education YouTube videos.

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: RuiAce on October 11, 2019, 05:08:44 pm

Quote from: insanipi on October 11, 2019, 03:51:24 pm

When studying for any maths, what is your go-to study technique, and why?
What is the best chocolate, and why?

Hey love :)

I suppose for me this is a very skewed question, because I rely on my memory a lot with maths. Especially in high school, because it saved me a lot. I found out that I relied quite heavily on my ability to (somehow) just retain what my mathematics teachers were teaching me. After just sitting in class and doing enough problems, I more or less had the basics all sorted out in my head.

Not gonna lie, that reads more condescendingly than what I would've liked. :-[ But I genuinely do think it influenced my go-to technique a lot.

Because I knew the basics really well, I always jumped straight into the deep end with mathematics, and those were past papers. Which is also a very common thing in the HSC, but more-so with maths due to the syllabus not changing (until, well, this year) and hence the supply of past papers being well into the hundreds. For me though, that's really what I require.

Although the most important thing to learn, the system is designed so that as a student I just end up looking at the marks. So I ended up having my eye set on what it was I could do to actually increase my marks. After a while, the basics were really just a test of balancing speed and caution for me - doing the question quickly, but reducing how many silly mistakes I make. I just felt I needed that extra push in the deep end to think where the 90+ students do. To do that, I had to attempt all of the most difficult questions of the exams.

At the end of the day, those same questions that weed out the higher marks for maths subjects are the ones similar to those that have shown up in previous papers. And ultimately it was very likely to be a question I have never seen before all my life. So by doing more past papers, I gradually became more and more prepared of getting that smack in the face by said foreign problem and ready to draw upon even more of what I know.

In all honesty, I don't recommend this strategy to everyone. In general, I recommend building things up gradually to that level.

However, since we're talking about 'any' maths, I'll a mention about at university as well. Uni has challenged my memory retention rate a lot, and it does so through various reasons. Some include:
- Content overload
- Dry lectures
- My lack of interest in memorising facts and acronyms and blah
...and sometimes a mixture of reasons.

If the lecturer is transparent, I'll do what they tell me to do. (I've had like 2 or 3 lecturers literally giving out a sheet containing what's gonna be in the exam.) Otherwise, for revision I actually copy out results from lectures/tutorials if necessary. I think about why every line of working out makes sense, but I'm full aware that for certain problems I would not be able to reproduce said computation/proof in the exam.

No matter though, copying things out has still done favours for me because writing just increases memory retention more. (I've had too many lectures where there's really not much writing I can do.)
_______________________________________________________________________

You, because you're sweet and always making me happy. <3

Mush aside though, I mean oddly enough I've always liked chocolates that have caramel in them. I question if it has to do with when I was a kid, the thought of "liquid-but-not-liquid like stuff" inside chocolate was aesthetic(?) to look at. That and either it brought out the flavour of the chocolate more, or it just worked better with my taste buds.

(At the same time, now though I feel like anything similar to it also works, like say Lindt.)

Hard to say though, because I don't know how I'd generalise all of those chocolates into one single category for an answer.

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: RuiAce on October 11, 2019, 06:23:32 pm

Quote from: JerryMouse2019 on October 11, 2019, 03:56:56 pm

Hello Rui,

I wanted to know what you would do if you were on the verge of losing hope in getting better at maths. I've never experienced amazing success in maths so my persistence and motivation for the subject has become lower.

What do you believe would be a great way to make myself become more interested in the subject?

If you have any advice then please let me know :)

Thanks,

Kind Regards
JerryMouse2019

Hey :)

The thing about maths is that success is generally highly influenced by how interested you are in it. And this seems to be a common problem across Australia as a whole really. For me, perhaps the two main things that saved me were:
- Having teachers that genuinely tried their hardest to look after the students.
- Enjoying patterns as a whole, which is pretty much the backbone of mathematics.

And very likely more. But these two seemed to stand out a lot.

The main things I feel that would detriment 'success' in maths are the following.
- Unfilled gaps from earlier work in maths.
- Ineffective teachers; inability to communicate the content well for reasons beyond that of the new QCE system. Or could also be because of inadequate attempt in making the subject area sufficiently interesting.
- Treating it as memorisation instead of problem solving.
- Not asking, or being given enough about the "why this works" or "why we do this" issues.
- Haven't seen enough real world applications of maths.
- Not enjoying problem solving/creative thinking as a whole. (Perfectly justifiable reason honestly, but still needs to be addressed.)

And in all honesty, there could be more reasons than this. But whatever they are, it's about identifying what has probably struck you the most. (Hint hint: That does mean you should take the time to think about it! Totally fine to not actually say out loud what they are if you feel uncomfortable about it, but at the very least think to yourself about it!)

See, no matter how hard you try, it's practically impossible to break out of the issue of demotivation without finding the cause. And without finding the cause, what can be done?

At the very least I'll expand on the above 6, and even then what I say for a completely unrelated point could still be of value anyhow. They're just things that I would advise as a starting point.

Unfilled gaps in learning are detrimental because they cascade. You can think of maths as building a brick wall. You miss one brick, you can no longer build onto it. That leaves 2 bricks that can't be placed on the next level up. Now build the next level. There are now 3 bricks missing. And the gaps just grow more and more over time.

Which means, perhaps unfortunately hurtfully (I mean, I'd be hurt by this), it's time to rewind. The foundations need to be solidified before continuing on. Earlier work will always transition into assumed knowledge the further you go along, and you need to be comfortable with it at the end of the day.
This is by no means an easy task, because at school they're only gonna give you more content. Which is why the only way this issue can be addressed is to be prompt. It requires jumping straight into the boring year 7 textbooks (and I'm not kidding when I say this, but further back if necessary), flipping through the pages, and asking myself "do I actually understand this concept very easily?" I'd argue that with the exception of Year 10, this would also involve worded problems as well, where you have to apply what you know to more practical scenarios.

The potential issue of ineffective teachers is perhaps the biggest misfortune ever, because it's not your own fault. But the idea is to overcome it.

My main suggestion: rely on a different learning source. If you learn well off reading, perhaps your textbooks might show you more. If you learn well off videos, there are educational videos on YouTube all over the place. (Just be careful when searching!) If you still want to be taught in person, honestly provided you can find an effective tutor, the money invested will be worth it. (A good tutor will stimulate the students' love for learning much more!) If you like self-paced interactive activity, you could consider websites that offer these services, say brilliant.org for example.

Make sure that the foundation is in place first. All of the above options will give at least the foundation (although success in tutoring would help later on with more in-depth problem solving questions as well though). Also, this video series on "What's Worthwhile" may offer up some advice with tutoring schemes. (It doesn't seem to work on the atarnotes website, but you can click into the actual video on YouTube.) You'll find it hard using a lot of options to develop that stronger level mathematical thinking the examiners wish to see, but step by step really matters a lot.

When combating memorisation, I really try to divert my focus onto 'finding patterns' over ingraining formulas. It's a lot linked to the next issue, but I find it far more aesthetic viewing maths as knowing, using and manipulating patterns in objects of a specific form. I carry this through even later on in schooling life for more convoluted mathematical techniques, like calculus in optimisation. When applied, yes it feels like a boring old systematic process. But at least behind the scenes, I get to appreciate why something works.

So yep, onto the "why". Let's start with this question that makes people hate maths in year 7 - why are we dealing with letters like \(x\) in mathematics? At that early point in life it is hard to appreciate to be fair, but the whole point is to model with something that is (at least, at present) unknown. In the real world, we just don't know what certain quantities will be, until some event happens, or we accumulate more information. But we still need to model the relationships somehow, so that we can have all the useful conclusions we require in advance!

Time skip, now let's say I'm currently in General maths and fitting a least squares regression line. At the very least, I would be asking myself "why" is this line even called that and what makes it so useful? Now let's say I'm currently in Maths methods and doing the optimisation problem. At the very least, I would be asking myself "why" my techniques in calculus gives me the best value for a certain problem.

Doing this keeps the curiosity inside me. It invites me into asking more about why this this that that holds. (Of course, some questions just aren't answered, due to the limitations of expected mathematical ability at the time. No worries - the curiosity funnels me into finding out at university.)

But that's only one side of the "why" puzzle. The other side is connecting "why" certain techniques work to the problems in hand. Sometimes, they are by definition - that's cool, definitions are the foundations we lay on mathematics so we take it for granted. Other times, a handy-dandy formula/theorem comes into play. In all cases, before jumping into using some mathematical result, I intentionally spend time understanding what was so special about this problem (or in a long problem, where I am currently at right now) that lead me to hitting it with this result in the first place.

What about when I'm stuck? I ask the same question, but instead I turn to the solutions and ask why they used a certain technique. (Of course, you might not always have solutions available - this is why people ask for help, for example on this forum!)

That way, the memorisation is no longer forced. It becomes a more natural procedure.

Some people zone out thinking that maths is too abstract once algebra becomes a thing. Look, fair enough, because techniques do make up a lot of the stuff in high school maths. (In fact, on the other hand some students like maths for the technique manipulation.)
Connecting maths to the real world takes time, and perhaps even investigation. It's more of a concept that needs to be discovered. Inevitably, high school mathematics is still mostly aimed at introducing the tools that lead into the so-called 'common sense' aspects of mathematics at university. Though not everything will be used (varies from person to person) at uni, many are still surprised by how much mathematics just randomly appears in their studies anyway!

(Personal note: I also found that understanding maths helped make more real-world like concepts make a lot more intuitive sense.)

And lastly, the issue of problem solving generally stems from difficulty in developing patience at the start. Which was me a lot, especially due to stereotypical Asian-cultures with maths. But problem solving is not a one-step procedure.
- Identifying the key components of each problem. This includes listing out exactly what you're given (for example variables, equations, relationships) and so on. It also includes actually breaking the problem down.
- Identifying the objective. What is the problem trying to make me do?
- Use the techniques that I know, on the key components to develop some new information.
- If required, break down the problem AGAIN!
- Continuously use what I know now to head in the direction of the objective.

Obviously the last two steps are harder, but the first two are actually extremely important. Without knowing what's going on, how can you solve the problem? And even then, the last two steps is time consuming.

That's the point. Problem solving is not meant to be something done quickly. It's supposed to take a lot of time at the start. You need to have physically done enough problems multiple times for your brain to have been used to this kind of situation.

(And it also includes having actually written it down, which slows people down more. But without writing, a lot of the retention is lost.)

So clearly it's not something that comes naturally! Acceptance of this fact is also important in finding the will to actually be consistent again.

Regardless, it's not easy. I'll give you that. :'( And in all honesty, nobody else knows better what you require, so in the worst case scenario I still haven't even answered your question. But hopefully it serves as a starting point!

P.S. If wanting to be stimulated by maths yourself is something you'd be interested in, over the summer break I would consider checking out this book by one of NSW's leading teachers Mr. Eddie Woo ;)

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: JerryMouse2019 on October 11, 2019, 06:54:21 pm

Hi Rui,

I'm not sure if you are able to answer this question but if you can then please try.

If someone is currently thinking of doing economics at university then what maths subject would best prepare them for it?

This is the degree I am thinking of doing in the near future: https://www.qut.edu.au/courses/bachelor-of-business-economics

It requires the assumed knowledge of doing an English subject and a Maths subject out of General Maths, Maths Methods or Specialist Maths.

There is a possibility that I might be shifting to general maths for my QCE and I just want to be reassured that I won't encounter any problems with doing economics at university with the knowledge that I have from studying general maths. I have talked to a QUT economics lecturer before who has recommended to me that maths methods would be the maths that would suit studying economics at university but it does say on the QUT website that I can enter the degree with doing general maths as well, so this is where I am confused.

Will doing general maths in my QCE prepare me for studying economics at university or would doing maths methods prepare me better?

If you have any advice then please tell me :)

Thanks,

Kind Regards
JerryMouse2019

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: RuiAce on October 12, 2019, 07:49:52 am

Quote from: JerryMouse2019 on October 11, 2019, 06:54:21 pm

Hi Rui,

I'm not sure if you are able to answer this question but if you can then please try.

If someone is currently thinking of doing economics at university then what maths subject would best prepare them for it?

This is the degree I am thinking of doing in the near future: https://www.qut.edu.au/courses/bachelor-of-business-economics

It requires the assumed knowledge of doing an English subject and a Maths subject out of General Maths, Maths Methods or Specialist Maths.

There is a possibility that I might be shifting to general maths for my QCE and I just want to be reassured that I won't encounter any problems with doing economics at university with the knowledge that I have from studying general maths. I have talked to a QUT economics lecturer before who has recommended to me that maths methods would be the maths that would suit studying economics at university but it does say on the QUT website that I can enter the degree with doing general maths as well, so this is where I am confused.

Will doing general maths in my QCE prepare me for studying economics at university or would doing maths methods prepare me better?

If you have any advice then please tell me :)

Thanks,

Kind Regards
JerryMouse2019

Hey again :)

So you wouldn't be 'screwed over' or anything of the sort with General Maths. The fact that it's listed as one option means that having a General Maths background should be adequate enough for the degree.

In saying that, it also depends highly on how QUT runs their economics major. I know at my home uni that our equivalent of Methods is treated as the assumed knowledge instead for this degree. The students find practically no use of the Methods knowledge in first year economics (i.e. smooth starts), but it takes a bit of a jump in second year economics. Optimisation and statistics are perhaps the two main mathematical tools used in economics.

For example, optimisation can be used to find the required supply value to maximise utility/minimise loss. Statistics can get used in analysing trends. for example inflation.

With that in mind, I can see General Maths being 'useful' nonetheless, because it does teach some fundamental statistical concepts and also basic analysis of time series. Or at least, the 'how to use them'. The intention of the lower level course is to focus on these aspects, without understanding bizarre mathematical derivations.

And on the other hand, many students in commerce/economics @ UNSW have complained that they don't understand why the statistics they use work. A foundation in Methods can help this a lot - it makes the starting point for university level statistics less of a jump. And of course, it actually teaches basic optimisation theory.

So again, you would not be in deep panic in my opinion. It's just that Methods would make the ride a lot smoother. There are pathways in real world economics that avoid insane amounts of mathematics, but some level of it is inevitable.

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: JerryMouse2019 on October 12, 2019, 01:00:20 pm

Quote from: RuiAce on October 12, 2019, 07:49:52 am

Hey again :)

So you wouldn't be 'screwed over' or anything of the sort with General Maths. The fact that it's listed as one option means that having a General Maths background should be adequate enough for the degree.

In saying that, it also depends highly on how QUT runs their economics major. I know at my home uni that our equivalent of Methods is treated as the assumed knowledge instead for this degree. The students find practically no use of the Methods knowledge in first year economics (i.e. smooth starts), but it takes a bit of a jump in second year economics. Optimisation and statistics are perhaps the two main mathematical tools used in economics.

For example, optimisation can be used to find the required supply value to maximise utility/minimise loss. Statistics can get used in analysing trends. for example inflation.

With that in mind, I can see General Maths being 'useful' nonetheless, because it does teach some fundamental statistical concepts and also basic analysis of time series. Or at least, the 'how to use them'. The intention of the lower level course is to focus on these aspects, without understanding bizarre mathematical derivations.

And on the other hand, many students in commerce/economics @ UNSW have complained that they don't understand why the statistics they use work. A foundation in Methods can help this a lot - it makes the starting point for university level statistics less of a jump. And of course, it actually teaches basic optimisation theory.

So again, you would not be in deep panic in my opinion. It's just that Methods would make the ride a lot smoother. There are pathways in real world economics that avoid insane amounts of mathematics, but some level of it is inevitable.

Hi Rui,

You mentioned that doing methods would make the ride a lot smoother (and that the university level statistics and optimisation theory content would then become a less of a jump to handle) but considering that I want to understand how the statistics work would, then would the university help me understand this mathematical content (considering that I might not have done methods in my QCE) when I do my degree or would I have to learn this by myself in my own time?

Or would it be a better option to just complete a short bridging course in maths methods before I start my economics degree in order to just make this ride a lot smoother?

Thanks for replying to my previous post,

Kind Regards
JerryMouse2019

Also thanks for reassuring me on the fact that if I do general maths in my QCE then I wouldn't be less prepared for attempting economics at university :)

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: RuiAce on October 12, 2019, 09:51:10 pm

Quote from: JerryMouse2019 on October 12, 2019, 01:00:20 pm

Hi Rui,

You mentioned that doing methods would make the ride a lot smoother (and that the university level statistics and optimisation theory content would then become a less of a jump to handle) but considering that I want to understand how the statistics work would, then would the university help me understand this mathematical content (considering that I might not have done methods in my QCE) when I do my degree or would I have to learn this by myself in my own time?

Or would it be a better option to just complete a short bridging course in maths methods before I start my economics degree in order to just make this ride a lot smoother?

Thanks for replying to my previous post,

Kind Regards
JerryMouse2019

Also thanks for reassuring me on the fact that if I do general maths in my QCE then I wouldn't be less prepared for attempting economics at university :)

Hey :)

This is a really important question to ask actually, but sadly the answer really depends on the university! Some universities will treat this sort of thing as assumed knowledge and require you to learn it yourself. Whereas some others may spend some more time teaching it more properly. You would have to ask QUT about this yourself and see what they do!

(Although, from what I've seen it's quite common to be shown how to use certain statistical tools at university anyway. But a) it'll be at a faster pace (because it's tertiary level study), and b) there's a bit less focus on the "why" behind things. After all, commerce students don't necessarily need every bit of the "why".)

My personal views on bridging courses are that they're worth while, provided you aren't affected by the money factor. For me, having someone to drill the content into my head works more miracles than trying to self learn, at least nowadays that's the case. Yet back when I was at the high school level, self learning was perhaps the better option for me.

(No worries! :))

(P.S. Sorry for these delays in replies! The Q&A is still open; it's just that I've had to spend some of my own time preparing for a test on Monday!)

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: JerryMouse2019 on October 13, 2019, 04:59:21 pm

Hi Rui,

I had another question pop up in my brain. Would you be able to answer this as well? :)

What QCE maths subject would best prepare someone for studying computer science at university?

Specifically, I've been looking at the QUT Bachelor of Information Technology (Computer Science or Information Systems) degree which only needs an english subject and a maths subject out of general maths, maths methods or specialist maths.

So if someone did general maths in their QCE would that prepare them well enough for doing computer science at university?

Thanks for your replies,

Kind Regards
JerryMouse2019

Title: Re: Rui's Ask Me Anything!
Post by: RuiAce on October 13, 2019, 06:36:21 pm

Quote from: JerryMouse2019 on October 13, 2019, 04:59:21 pm

Hi Rui,

I had another question pop up in my brain. Would you be able to answer this as well? :)

What QCE maths subject would best prepare someone for studying computer science at university?

Specifically, I've been looking at the QUT Bachelor of Information Technology (Computer Science or Information Systems) degree which only needs an english subject and a maths subject out of general maths, maths methods or specialist maths.

So if someone did general maths in their QCE would that prepare them well enough for doing computer science at university?

Thanks for your replies,

Kind Regards
JerryMouse2019

Hey :)

At the baseline, I'd say computer science would be similar to economics in this regard. That is, avoiding too much of the theoretical algorithmic side. (Algorithmic design generally requires a strong mathematical background, although use of algorithms themselves requires noticeably less.)

Programming is more a test of if you can reason well with logic. It's testing if you can break the problem down into constituent parts, and find a solution to these relevant parts. That, and of course building back up to the solution. Programming languages are more or less a means to an end; the code is just the medium that we solve these problems with.

Although being skilled at maths generally results in stronger logical reasoning skills, it's not mandatory.

(General maths does come with a small bonus in its own sense however, in that networks are actually a fundamental data structure used by computer scientists. In this one single regard, the general students have the advantage. But obviously, it's not a course intended to train your logical reasoning skills.)