Post by: magnum on November 02, 2009, 06:58:36 pm
Those who believed that we had to read between lines chose C, whilst those who thought it was a simple read-off-the-graph question chose E
The answer to this question will determine the fate of many, as "40/40" dreams will be shattered and that chance to achieve 40+ study score may be just out of reach with the revelation of the TRUE answer to this question :P
So, which answer is correct, C or E?
Post by: KillinSpoon on November 02, 2009, 06:59:46 pm
Post by: dcc on November 02, 2009, 07:00:10 pm
Post by: rustic_metal on November 02, 2009, 07:02:23 pm
Post by: Ilovemathsmeth on November 02, 2009, 07:03:40 pm
Post by: magnum on November 02, 2009, 07:13:13 pm
I chose E aswell :)
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 02, 2009, 07:16:13 pm
I answered E. I still firmly believe it is correct.thank God
I see no reason why it can't be E. Like I have read the logic of those who say its C....but it doesn't make sense, not something people GENERALLY would even consider when answering this question. In past exams they have put a segmented bar chart, and the answer was just trying to see if you can demonstrate the ability to read off a graph...some people struggle believe it or not. So yeah.
Lets pretend C was correct...it would be had to say E is wrong then...so yeah.
EDIT: I think I'm starting to see where c pplz are going, but yeah. E all the way xD
Post by: rusty54 on November 02, 2009, 07:16:38 pm
Post by: rustic_metal on November 02, 2009, 07:16:43 pm
We don't know that the number of animals for each of low, medium and high exposure to danger is equal, so we can't compare them that way. There could be 100 for low, 100 for medium and 20000 for high, for all we know. :-\
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 02, 2009, 07:22:43 pm
What was the question etc?Here is the mother of all.....
Post by: VxBlitzxN on November 02, 2009, 07:24:11 pm
Post by: anonuser0511 on November 02, 2009, 07:25:44 pm
Post by: rusty54 on November 02, 2009, 07:27:05 pm
Quite clearly E.
Post by: Munis on November 02, 2009, 07:27:49 pm
Post by: mtlz on November 02, 2009, 07:29:01 pm
I already know I stuffed up one of the number patterns questions :(
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 02, 2009, 07:29:04 pm
Not bagging anyone, because i'm one of those people.
Lets hope both are correct I guess, but to be honest all the C pplz, just stick with the easiest next time :P, dont over complicate things!
But points go out to you's for having an eye for detail.
Post by: VxBlitzxN on November 02, 2009, 07:30:00 pm
yea i had a feeling they got that wrong, but as usual with vcaa you ignore logic inorder to find the "answer"
awesome, an education system that denounces logic.
Post by: mtlz on November 02, 2009, 07:31:06 pm
it better be right :(
Post by: Neobeo on November 02, 2009, 07:31:32 pm
The percentage of (animals whose exposure to danger is high) whose chance of attack is below average, is closest to
then it would be non-ambiguously E.
Post by: anonuser0511 on November 02, 2009, 07:39:01 pm
lol as in they list the exposure to danger in order of high, medium and low.yea i had a feeling they got that wrong, but as usual with vcaa you ignore logic inorder to find the "answer"
awesome, an education system that denounces logic.
but they graph is opposite
making there a HIGH change of attack during low exposure, but that make the argument whether it's E or A but some of you people are saying C. - 86/3 = 26.67% which i don't think makes sense since they're asking "The percentage of animals whose exposure to danger is high" not "Out of all the animals the percentage ....
so i went with E
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 02, 2009, 07:39:38 pm
Post by: kazoospasm on November 02, 2009, 07:57:21 pm
We don't know that the number of animals for each of low, medium and high exposure to danger is equal, so we can't compare them that way. There could be 100 for low, 100 for medium and 20000 for high, for all we know. :-\This.
Post by: nikinoo on November 02, 2009, 10:25:11 pm
Post by: cjays66 on November 02, 2009, 11:18:08 pm
We don't know that the number of animals for each of low, medium and high exposure to danger is equal, so we can't compare them that way. There could be 100 for low, 100 for medium and 20000 for high, for all we know. :-\This.
Yes, this makes logical sense. Therefore E
Post by: /0 on November 02, 2009, 11:33:09 pm
lol as in they list the exposure to danger in order of high, medium and low.yea i had a feeling they got that wrong, but as usual with vcaa you ignore logic inorder to find the "answer"
awesome, an education system that denounces logic.
but they graph is opposite
making there a HIGH change of attack during low exposure, but that's make the argument whether it's E or A but some of you people are saying C. - 86/3 = 26.67% which i don't think makes sense since they're asking "The percentage of animals whose exposure to danger is high" not "Out of all the animals the percentage ....
so i went with E
Sorry to butt in, but this discussion is just too interesting
"The percentage of animals whose exposure to danger during sleep is high, and whose chance of attack is below average, is closest to:"
The way it's worded, let
A = exposure is high
B = chance of attack is below average
This is asking
If it were
"Of the animals whose exposure to danger is high, the percentage whose chance of attack is below average is:"
or
"The percentage of animals whose chance of attack is below average given that their exposure to danger during sleep is high is:"
But as it is it's just asking for the percentage that is A AND B.
Although rustic_metal has an extremely good reason why it should be
Either they messed up the wording, or they did not take into account rustic_metal's argument.
Either way, I think it is a flawed question, and everyone should get marks for it.
Post by: Ilovemathsmeth on November 02, 2009, 11:58:18 pm
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 03, 2009, 12:07:39 am
Post by: ashok on November 03, 2009, 10:28:45 am
Secondly, you dont know how many animals are in each group. Only percentages. So low exposure may have 10 animals while High has 100. So you cant assume that each group is equal making 29% incorrect.
E.G. 100 in high
10 in low
10 in medium
86 in high are below avg.
so 86/(100+10+10) *100 = 72 %
Any number of combinations depending on the numbers in each group.
So answer must be E
Post by: QuantumJG on November 03, 2009, 10:50:04 am
What was the question etc?Here is the mother of all.....
Easy its E
why?
Look at the bars!
The percentage of animals whose exposure to danger during sleep is high, and whose chance of attack is
below average, is closest to
So the first bold means we are interested in the third (EDIT: bar
Post by: shishywonka on November 03, 2009, 11:02:11 am
Post by: doboman on November 03, 2009, 12:42:38 pm
For those asking how you come up with C.
there are 3 catagories, high risk is 1 of them. Thus, 1/3 is at high risk.
of those at high risk, ~ 85% are below average. Simple multiplication: 1/3 x 85 = ~ 28%
I think the question will stand. The way it's worded leads to my conclusion, and the only counter argument further maths students have is "it wouldnt be that hard, fm is straight forwards". So I'm not sure which leg they have to stand on. But, for all your sakes, hopefully it is scrapped or both C and E are accepted.
Post by: Sylencia on November 03, 2009, 01:50:23 pm
Hmm, I personally think it's C. Its poorly worded, and understand why everybody thinks its E. For E, better wording would have been "Of those at exposure to high danger risk, what is the percentage whose chance of attack is below average".
For those asking how you come up with C.
there are 3 catagories, high risk is 1 of them. Thus, 1/3 is at high risk.
of those at high risk, ~ 85% are below average. Simple multiplication: 1/3 x 85 = ~ 28%
I think the question will stand. The way it's worded leads to my conclusion, and the only counter argument further maths students have is "it wouldnt be that hard, fm is straight forwards". So I'm not sure which leg they have to stand on. But, for all your sakes, hopefully it is scrapped or both C and E are accepted.
Like someone said before, there are no exact numbers given, and so it cannot be assumed that the numbers for each bar chart are equal. For example, while 11% in the low-below average segment could represent 11 from a population of 100 for those with a low exposure to danger, it could also represent 1100 from a population of 10000. Then, if the 86% in the high-below average only represent 86 from a population of 100, then we see that 86/(10000+medium+100) does NOT = 28%.
Post by: ReVeL on November 03, 2009, 02:01:50 pm
Hmm, I personally think it's C. Its poorly worded, and understand why everybody thinks its E. For E, better wording would have been "Of those at exposure to high danger risk, what is the percentage whose chance of attack is below average".
For those asking how you come up with C.
there are 3 catagories, high risk is 1 of them. Thus, 1/3 is at high risk.
of those at high risk, ~ 85% are below average. Simple multiplication: 1/3 x 85 = ~ 28%
I think the question will stand. The way it's worded leads to my conclusion, and the only counter argument further maths students have is "it wouldnt be that hard, fm is straight forwards". So I'm not sure which leg they have to stand on. But, for all your sakes, hopefully it is scrapped or both C and E are accepted.
Like someone said before, there are no exact numbers given, and so it cannot be assumed that the numbers for each bar chart are equal. For example, while 11% in the low-below average segment could represent 11 from a population of 100 for those with a low exposure to danger, it could also represent 1100 from a population of 10000. Then, if the 86% in the high-below average only represent 86 from a population of 100, then we see that 86/(10000+medium+100) does NOT = 28%.
Exactly right. Doboman you cannot assume each catergory is of equal weight, thus the only possible answer is E.
Post by: lachymm on November 03, 2009, 10:59:07 pm
Post by: doboman on November 04, 2009, 05:06:20 am
Post by: stonecold on November 05, 2009, 01:04:23 am
Reasoning:
-As others have said, C can only be correct if each bar represents the same number of animals. As this is not stated in the question, it can not be assumed.
-VCAA has already thought this out. They knew people would go 86/300 = 28.66%. This then rounds up to 29%. They purposely listed 28% to give you a hint, that this calculation was wrong. Never in all the VCAA practice papers I have done, has a multiple choice answer been correct when the rounding is off. They were giving you a hint by doing this.
This question will stand. I am very confident of this.
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 05, 2009, 11:21:04 am
There is no way this question will be scrapped. The answer is E.nice logic (no sarcasm)
Reasoning:
-As others have said, C can only be correct if each bar represents the same number of animals. As this is not stated in the question, it can not be assumed.
-VCAA has already thought this out. They knew people would go 86/300 = 28.66%. This then rounds up to 29%. They purposely listed 28% to give you a hint, that this calculation was wrong. Never in all the VCAA practice papers I have done, has a multiple choice answer been correct when the rounding is off. They were giving you a hint by doing this.
This question will stand. I am very confident of this.
Post by: Munis on November 05, 2009, 12:42:12 pm
There is no way this question will be scrapped. The answer is E.
Reasoning:
-As others have said, C can only be correct if each bar represents the same number of animals. As this is not stated in the question, it can not be assumed.
-VCAA has already thought this out. They knew people would go 86/300 = 28.66%. This then rounds up to 29%. They purposely listed 28% to give you a hint, that this calculation was wrong. Never in all the VCAA practice papers I have done, has a multiple choice answer been correct when the rounding is off. They were giving you a hint by doing this.
This question will stand. I am very confident of this.
yes, i absolutely agree with that and it is a very true point that you make in that "VCAA have never had a mark correct when the rounding was off"
well thought out
Post by: /0 on November 05, 2009, 12:46:36 pm
If the question was:
The percentage of (animals whose exposure to danger is high) whose chance of attack is below average, is closest to
then it would be non-ambiguously E.
As I think Neobeo was implying, it's the and that screws everything up
"The percentage of animals whose exposure to danger during sleep is high, and whose chance of attack is
below average, is closest to"
Post by: andy0004 on November 07, 2009, 10:35:31 pm
Post by: Hooligan on November 07, 2009, 10:45:05 pm
You shouldn't need to look for the subtle rounding 'clues' to figure out what the question is asking for. I still think that syntactically the question is asking for C, yet not enough information is given to work it out, so it's a dud question.If the question was:
The percentage of (animals whose exposure to danger is high) whose chance of attack is below average, is closest to
then it would be non-ambiguously E.
As I think Neobeo was implying, it's the and that screws everything up
"The percentage of animals whose exposure to danger during sleep is high, and whose chance of attack is
below average, is closest to"
Yes. Totally agree.
I think its also because in methods when you see 'and', in probability, it means to 'multiply' and hence the multiplication of 1/3 x 85 ~ 28% :P
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 07, 2009, 11:25:27 pm
lolll
Post by: Gloamglozer on November 08, 2009, 12:32:24 am
lets all wait till December 14th and then order that paper thing :P
lolll
Statement of Marks, I presume? Or we could wait until May when the assessor's report comes out, but I think most people would rather spend that extra $10 because by May, we'd all be like, "What's Further Maths?"
Post by: codykm on November 08, 2009, 04:02:47 pm
Post by: Ilovemathsmeth on November 10, 2009, 11:08:13 am
Post by: /0 on December 20, 2009, 07:13:55 pm
Post by: xXNovaxX on December 20, 2009, 07:34:39 pm
All bets on "e"
Post by: stonecold on December 20, 2009, 08:16:33 pm
I was planning to order one, but meh, the subject didnt even make my top 4 =P
All bets on "e"
Haha, me thinks all bets on:
"Due to a misprint in the examination paper, all students were awarded a mark for this question."
VCAA, you are gay!
Post by: Ilovemathsmeth on December 21, 2009, 12:42:58 am
Post by: stonecold on March 27, 2010, 11:45:23 am
Correct answer was E, which means that for further in 2009 you could lose 1 mark and still get a 50.
Surprised the question wasn't scrapped, but like we've all said, there was absolutely no way the correct answer was C.
I guess E was the most correct.
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vcaa/vce/studies/mathematics/further/assessreports/2009/further1_assessrep_09.pdf
Post by: /0 on March 27, 2010, 12:56:37 pm