ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Faculties => Health sciences => Topic started by: Greggler on November 04, 2009, 08:44:33 pm
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Hey guys,
I've been really wanting to medicine for probably the past two years since i did work experience.
I'm pretty keen on going to Melbourne and going through the Biomedicine pathway, however i'd just like some advice from anyone who has done this/done biomed/is doing biomed or anyone that is doing med at the moment really....
You see the annoying this is, am im sure you're all aware, graduate Medicine is going to be really competitive and UoM hardly even know what the requirements are going to be.
Therefore i've been now looking at Monash and other universities interstate and i was just wondering what are some recommended Unis outside of Vic for undergrad medicine. Also, i don't really consider myself a 99.9 student but i back myself as a 95+, so what are the chances i get a decent UMAT score and interview and get a gig at Monash?
I've talked to the careers guy at our school, but all he says is just apply for Biomed or science at both UoM and Monash; he doesnt really recommend interstate...
Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys
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I wouldn't say that grad med is more competitive than undergrad, if anything, its less competitive. There are 12 grad med schools in Australia (3 in Victoria - Melb, Monash and Deakin) compared to 9 undergrad (i think) in Australia, with only one undergrad course in Vic, this being at Monash. Melbourne will be releasing their entry requirements early next year, but according to one of the people designing the course, it will be GPA (5.5-6.0), GAMSAT and interview.
Of course, yes, there is the risk that you may not meet these requirements and won't be accepted, but you need to ask yourself how badly you want to pursue a career in Medicine if you don't get into Monash. In my opinion, if you were offered a spot at Monash, you would probably be better off taking that because of the certainty of it. However, if you are confident you can make the entry requirements or you are unsure if Med is exactly what you want to do, then Biomed may be a better option because it's a bit more flexible.
As for Medicine interstate, again it depends how badly you want to do it, and whether you are happy to leave family and friends to pursue the career, or whether you would prefer to take the biomed option and stay in your home state. It really is a personal decision that you would have to make if that opportunity came.
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Yeah, the more i think about it i will probs end up at Biomed and attempt Grad medicine. But how hard is the GAMSAT, is it 'dodgy' in a similar fashion to the UMAT or is it just an exam/test based purely on skills you can study for or whatever?
However if i do somehow manage to attain some kind of high score, i will be applying interstate and seeing what i can get into as i would much rather feeling secure in a course then relying on numerous factors such as a GAMSAT and GPA.
I have no problem moving interstate... its just i have no idea what Uni's are good for medicine.. lol
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The GAMSAT is less "dodgy" than the UMAT. It consists, like the UMAT, of three sections. The first section is based on humanities reasoning, which, in short is similar to section 1 of the UMAT, where you read passages and answer questions, however i think it is a little less dodgy than the UMAT from the questions i have seen. Section 2 is two essays, one is a personal/reflective essay and the other is an argumentative essay where in both cases you are given several prompts you can choose from. The third and most weighted section of the GAMSAT is reasoning in sciences, where there are 110 multiple choice questions based on first year biol, chem and year 12 physics.
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Yeah, thanks alot dan08.
I guess im just going to try the hardest i can really, and just see where that takes me..
perhaps if i work my ass off next year i can get a decent UMAT score paired with a respectable enter and see what happens then
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No worries. If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask! :)
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Just to add a bit more info on the GAMSAT path:
Even though there may be 12 graduate entry universities, bear in mind that you can only have one interview. (For those who may not know, you list three preferences (kinda like VTAC) then you're granted one interview for the highest preference your GAMSAT qualifies for.) While it may seem harder because you get only one shot each year, it does increase your chances of getting a spot.
(for me, however, this was a factor that led me to choose the undergrad pathway again...)
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Haha I'm not studying; on a gap year. Managed to boost my UMAT score and hoping to get into Monash next year. *fingers crossed* xD
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Hope I get in somewhere interstate? Haha, well, if that doesn't work out either, I'd start Pharmacy (which I deferred). I chose it mainly because I want to continue something I'd be happy with if I don't get in via graduate entry either, or leave the option of applying for med years down the track if other life plans change by then. :)
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Well, my main reason for avoiding Biomedicine/Biomedical science was that in the chance I didn't get into Med right after, I wouldn't really be happy with a career in it. Or even only working for a year/few years while reapplying. Also, I was getting worried with the sheer number of Biomedicine and Science graduates from both Monash and Melbourne...firstly, not everyone's gonna get into med. The rest are going to have to find a job, or continue their studies. And I'd expect you'd have to be performing quite well if you want to secure a job in that field after graduation (due to the competition). I guess the same could be applied in terms of graduate numbers for Pharm, but at least it's directly in the health care field, and I think I'd enjoy working hard for it (both to get a job and during the career).
But these were my reasons. Other people I know don't care about "the odds", and they get where they want to.
So yes, essentially, I am a pessimist; I didn't like my chances in the post-grad pathway either, so I thought I'd rather be studying medicine from the beginning, so I'd rather take a gap year, work, get some life experience. :)
Would you consider Biomedical science at Monash, or it's only the Biomedicine pathway at Melbourne that interests you?
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I have a friend who is doing biomedicine and a friend who is doing optometry and they are both enjoying their courses. My friend who is doing optometry I think got a lower ENTER than Red_x_lily so I don't know why this person is delaying study. Even if they did biomedicine they would be well off with getting into a graduate medicine degree with Melbourne. With Melbourne uni most science and biomed students are wanting to get into postgraduate medicine so I can see why a lot of people are pessamistic about this option.
I could never consider myself studying medicine, I would go pale everytime my friend spoke about things that have happened.
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Well, I love Biology lol. I'd consider Biomedical Science at Monash if I didn't get into Biomedicine at Melbourne or undergraduate medicine :P. (Doubt my performance in the UMAT next year though)
I've looked into the graduate courses and further studies available at Melbourne, including medicine, and I would enjoy doing most of them :).
Medicine is many peoples dreams, mine too, but it may not happen for me. That's why I actually like the flexibility of Melbournes Model and how I can enter many fields if I complete a Bachelor of Biomedicine there.
That's pretty good - it's also good that you've considered all of this already. As for the UMAT, don't worry, you can definitely improve with practice - so make sure you do!
My friend who is doing optometry I think got a lower ENTER than Red_x_lily so I don't know why this person is delaying study. Even if they did biomedicine they would be well off with getting into a graduate medicine degree with Melbourne.
Maybe, but everyone has different reasons. I had my reasons for delaying study. It wasn't really about getting into any course I could only for the purpose of studying something.
(Coincidentally, I also have a friend in Optom right now who I tagged along to a few lectures with...can't see myself studying it.)
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yeah... the UMAT seems like a large hurdle that if one can leap successfully, a number of other factors such as enter can become less important
and im not really keen on paying 1000 dollars for some preparation lectures, or are they really worth it? if not, what would you/or others reccommend?
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yeah... the UMAT seems like a large hurdle that if one can leap successfully, a number of other factors such as enter can become less important
and im not really keen on paying 1000 dollars for some preparation lectures, or are they really worth it? if not, what would you/or others reccommend?
Well yeh, it's not $1000, but it's still quite a lot of money. However, I'd say it's definitely worth it in the end if it gets you what you want to do because I can objectively say that it does actually help.
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mmmm... yeah ive seen medentry and it costs a fair bit
on the other hand i know some one last year from my school who got an ENTER of 96, was never aiming for medicine and never thought he would get in and was always looking at biomed or science. however he aced the UMAT on pure awesomeness, he did not do one practice question for it lol, and he is now doing med
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Shinny; what Medentry course did you do?
Theres some ranging for like $300-1500.
I wouldnt mind shelling out 300 odd dollars, but 1500 seems a bit steep...?
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Arggh, how do you improve in UMAT?? What have you been doing :P?
I agree with Shinny; medentry does help. I did the $495 thing with the workshop, although I found that it kinda repeated everything that was already on their online notes. But it was good to see it visually and have it explained. But if you do Medentry, ensure you do EVERYTHING on their website, and practice practice practice especially with section 3. Do not try to cram the info - it took me 6 months to do everything well spread out, increased it towards the exam so I repeated stuff I did earlier on because I'd forgotten the questions by then. Don't just do a ton of questions, REALLY understand what the method is and you'll notice half the questions look for the same thing anyway.
Also, borrow heaps of IQ/mensa books from your local library (mine had a good selection), google non verbal and verbal reasoning questions and you find heaps of relevant material for Section 1 and 3. Also, some Law exam selection test in the US called LSAT was also very relevant, although higher than the standard needed for UMAT. Section 2 is a little harder to improve on, but best bit of advice is to form a vocab bank with all the "big" words and their synonyms and practice.
Edit: Haha this sounds psycho...but I didn't have VCE...! :D But it was worth it in the end.
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Try out a few UMAT practice exams here
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,15253.0.html
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,15195.0.html
~some discussion links:
General Advice on UMAT
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,8796.0.html
UMAT companies ratings comparison
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,14450.0.html
UMAT prep courses
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,12402.0.html
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,3168.0.html
When should you start
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,16999.0.html
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I'd recommend the platinum ($495) one w/ group discount, which is what I got. Just get a few mates together, or even find people off here to group with. The workshop isn't THAT useful though compared to the online stuff, so you can always go with the distance ($395) one if you want to cut back a bit. The workshop gives quite a lot of interview help as well though, so it is still worth going. And yeh, practise definitely helps with section 3 (the shapes). I was initially around 70 percentile on MedEntry, and ended up getting 100 in the real thing. Section 1 is similar, although to a lesser extent. However, with enough practise, you can definitely improve it quite considerably. Section 2 on the other hand is quite difficult to improve, but remember that you don't need to score that well in all three sections anyway to get a good score. I got 60 something percentile on section 2 and still managed to get 98 percentile overall in the end anyway.
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Thanks for all your help guys
I think i've decided ill do a UMAT prep course too (probably medentry, but are there any other respectable companies in the same price range?), rather than some simple 3/4 prep lectures over these upcoming school holidays.
Would you reccommend going this early in the year..? or will i forget everything by the time i have to sit the umat...?
The reason im choosing early in the year is as i am only doing four subjects next year i'll have plenty of spare time and therefore plenty of time to get cracking on UMAT stuff asap into the year.
also if anyone else is interested in going to one of these courses, contact me as i'll be looking for two other people to get the discount shinny mentioned for a group booking
Also what kind of material do they give you at medentry, i was looking on their site and it says 10 prac exams (is this much?) and also some other things with catchy names eg. "eureka" or sections drills...
Anymore help would be greatly appreciated as usual :)
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ill do it too
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Would you reccommend going this early in the year..? or will i forget everything by the time i have to sit the umat...?
Also what kind of material do they give you at medentry, i was looking on their site and it says 10 prac exams (is this much?) and also some other things with catchy names eg. "eureka" or sections drills...
Well, if this helps: I went for the first workshop, pretty much for the same reason - to start preparing asap. Yeah, you might forget a couple of fine details from the workshop or what you learn early on, but provided you practice consistently, a bit every week or so, you won't forget too much. Maybe a couple of fine details in methods (like in section 3), but overtime with practice you'll remember them.
Medentry gives you 10 Exam length exams. I did all of them, and needed to do all of them, but I know a lot of people who didn't and they did well. You can gauge your standard yourself, or according to percentiles that you will receive for each section once you complete them. These percentiles, obviously, give you an indication as to how you perform relative to the others who did them. Best to spread these exams out over the months as you do them, because you may need a few hours to revise each one properly.
The drills are essentialy about 10 - 20 questions grouped according to their "type", so you can have a more "focused" training; eg, In section 1 you can have drills for "Logical Reasoning", "Data Analysis", "Problem Solving" etc, Section 2 "Patient-Doctor Interaction", "Passages" (like excerpts from stories) etc, Section 3 "Pick the Middle", "Fourth in the Sequence" etc. Again, loads of good practice.
Eureka is for Section 3 training, essentially generates questions randomly, a lower standard than actual Section 3, but still alright for practice.
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Ok, thanks for info...
What about the actual lectures/workshops do they justify the extra price? or is everything covered well in the notes and stuff?
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The workshop goes through all three sections with a small intro, then doing a couple of questions as an entire group and going through them closely. In my opinion, not enough examples, but it was still OK. Latter half of the second day is spent going through general interview stuff. Also had a mini mock interview, with one of the students being the interviewee and two more being the interviewers, and the lecturer giving a few tips at the end.
To me, the most important part of the workshop is the practice exam you do on the second day. I'm quite certain a couple of the Section 3 questions was on last year's UMAT. You do it in "exam conditions" and it'll give you a good idea of where you stand and how much you need to improve.
So yeah, I thought it was OK. Not spectacular, not a terrible waste of time too (although I reckon it could have been condensed). The stuff is covered in the notes online, but not some of the specific examples and the sample exam, so yeah.
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The workshop goes through all three sections with a small intro, then doing a couple of questions as an entire group and going through them closely. In my opinion, not enough examples, but it was still OK. Latter half of the second day is spent going through general interview stuff. Also had a mini mock interview, with one of the students being the interviewee and two more being the interviewers, and the lecturer giving a few tips at the end.
To me, the most important part of the workshop is the practice exam you do on the second day. I'm quite certain a couple of the Section 3 questions was on last year's UMAT. You do it in "exam conditions" and it'll give you a good idea of where you stand and how much you need to improve.
So yeah, I thought it was OK. Not spectacular, not a terrible waste of time too (although I reckon it could have been condensed). The stuff is covered in the notes online, but not some of the specific examples and the sample exam, so yeah.
In total, how many hours did the workshops consume of your two whole days?
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The workshop goes through all three sections with a small intro, then doing a couple of questions as an entire group and going through them closely. In my opinion, not enough examples, but it was still OK. Latter half of the second day is spent going through general interview stuff. Also had a mini mock interview, with one of the students being the interviewee and two more being the interviewers, and the lecturer giving a few tips at the end.
To me, the most important part of the workshop is the practice exam you do on the second day. I'm quite certain a couple of the Section 3 questions was on last year's UMAT. You do it in "exam conditions" and it'll give you a good idea of where you stand and how much you need to improve.
So yeah, I thought it was OK. Not spectacular, not a terrible waste of time too (although I reckon it could have been condensed). The stuff is covered in the notes online, but not some of the specific examples and the sample exam, so yeah.
i dont know if you still want an answer . lol but . i went this year. and the first day was from 10 to 5 . and day two was 9 to 4 including breaks of about one hour and a couple of short 5 -15 minute breaks
In total, how many hours did the workshops consume of your two whole days?