ATAR Notes: Forum
National Education => Tuition and Education Services => Tuition Advice => Topic started by: jay1993 on November 18, 2009, 12:02:43 pm
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How beneficial is your Tutor?
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my two worst sac grades for english were the two sacs where I had a tutor helping me...
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Doesn't really increase your grades much/at all if you were good in the 1st place.
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LOL obviously. If your grades are THAT gud that ur grades cant be improved, then why would you get a tutor.
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LOL obviously. If your grades are THAT gud that ur grades cant be improved, then why would you get a tutor.
I didn't say "THAT gud".
I mean if you're already achieving like 90%+, you won't be able to see much of a change even if you get a tutor. You will still run into problems, need explanations for certain things and get stuck on questions so you can still get a tutor. It's only when you performing badly ( C's) that a tutor would really help improve your grades.
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LOL obviously. If your grades are THAT gud that ur grades cant be improved, then why would you get a tutor.
I didn't say "THAT gud".
I mean if you're already achieving like 90%+, you won't be able to see much of a change even if you get a tutor. You will still run into problems, need explanations for certain things and get stuck on questions so you can still get a tutor. It's only when you performing badly ( C's) that a tutor would really help improve your grades.
Not true. There's different levels of tutoring. For example, Dr. He in Box Hill only accepts students that pass a pretty difficult maths test, but he definitely is able to improve someone from like a 90% level to higher than that. I had a similar thing with English where I was chucked into a high level class and the tutor spent all year on fine tuning minor things.
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i guess when u are getting C's the grades will see the biggest improvement, coz obviously ur capable but u jst need a push :) haha didnt think bout it that way.
But still in my opinon, gettng 90+ and running into a few hard Q's probz wouldnt mean u need a tutor. I reckon the teachers help would be just fine. (unless the teacher aint great)
(didn't mean to be rude by saying "THAT gud", lol thought it was just implied.) ;)
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I find that for people of all abilities though, one thing tutoring does is just motivate (well, force) them to work. I know this was the case with English. If I didn't have a tutor, I probably would've never wrote essays during the year.
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LOL obviously. If your grades are THAT gud that ur grades cant be improved, then why would you get a tutor.
I didn't say "THAT gud".
I mean if you're already achieving like 90%+, you won't be able to see much of a change even if you get a tutor. You will still run into problems, need explanations for certain things and get stuck on questions so you can still get a tutor. It's only when you performing badly ( C's) that a tutor would really help improve your grades.
Not true. There's different levels of tutoring. For example, Dr. He in Box Hill only accepts students that pass a pretty difficult maths test, but he definitely is able to improve someone from like a 90% level to higher than that. I had a similar thing with English where I was chucked into a high level class and the tutor spent all year on fine tuning minor things.
But how many people are going to be privileged to receive tuition from someone at that level (or compare the amount of people in such classes to everyone else)? He might be able to challenge you and improve your standards ( even if you're already performing very well) but I was referring to most cases. A lot of people just look for tutors that have just finished VCE or otherwise attend some company programs. If you didn't get a tutor and still worked really hard ( and constantly achieved 90%+, did questions and so forth), the benefits that a tutor would have on your grades would be minimal. Personally, I found that all a tutor really did was help answer a few questions I was unsure about but my teacher probably would of been able to answer them as well. So in the end, the questions you're stuck on ( that the tutor answers for you) could probably still be answered by another source. ( So you might ask, why get a tutor then? It's more convenient. You can't always contact your teachers etc but in the end, you will still get your questions answered(provided you don't leave the until the last minute)).
The only major benefits I saw tuition had on students was it "makes" them study. EG: If you go to a place specifically to study ( not to mention, paying heaps of money), then it kind of motivates you to study. ( This is a major change for students that slack off and get low grades but for students who are already motivated, constantly studying, this has little/no effect)
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I never realised Tutors could even be so selective.
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He might be able to challenge you and improve your standards ( even if you're already performing very well) but I was referring to most cases. A lot of people just look for tutors that have just finished VCE or otherwise attend some company programs. If you didn't get a tutor and still worked really hard ( and constantly achieved 90%+, did questions and so forth), the benefits that a tutor would have on your grades would be minimal. Personally, I found that all a tutor really did was help answer a few questions I was unsure about but my teacher probably would of been able to answer them as well. So in the end, the questions you're stuck on ( that the tutor answers for you) could probably still be answered by another source. ( So you might ask, why get a tutor then? It's more convenient. You can't always contact your teachers etc but in the end, you will still get your questions answered(provided you don't leave the until the last minute)).
But at the 90% level (I assume you're talking about 40+ SS I guess), it's only very minor things that mean big differences in the end study score. A tutor often has very small but very important tips that people are unlikely to learn elsewhere which are extremely useful for fine tuning, and these tend to be things which someone can't learn themselves, and their teachers are unlikely to teach. For example, Dr. He emphasised something as simple as setting out your working out, TSFX often provides little hints about avoiding technicalities in writing short answer questions, I teach my students in subjects like Biology and BM about how to actually write short answers, and well, English is a no-brainer; you can't really mark that yourself. It's these minor things which in the end which mean a lot. If hard work alone was enough for VCE, there wouldn't really be a need for tutors. However, there's just so many things that 99% of the state would never figure out or realise through hard work alone.
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well said shinny :D
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Would the tutor be able to point out all these small things that would make a major difference on your score? ( For someone such as that doctor guy, he would as he's specifically looking to help students that are already achieving high scores but what if a good student is unable to get such a tutor?)
Would you need to( or know to) question them about every single thing to find it out or would they actually just tell you as you cover the topic?
( I guess this depends on the actual tutor)
I think for a majority of things, you would be able to find the "correct" way of setting out your work ( following text book examples, study guide examples, teachers advice, notes online etc). What other kinds of small things would you be referring to?
and making them a natural way of doing things by the end of the year.
I mean, there are probably things you wouldn't learn without a tutor but I found a lot of the "extra" things I learnt, ended up being asked by other students ( which was then covered by the teacher).
I'm not saying there isn't any benefit of getting a tutor even if you're performing well but I think, it's not very noticeable in most cases.
My original post was kind of referring to sacs, where I found that nothing I learnt outside was really helpful.
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Would the tutor be able to point out all these small things that would make a major difference on your score? ( For someone such as that doctor guy, he would as he's specifically looking to help students that are already achieving high scores but what if a good student is unable to get such a tutor?)
Isn't accessibility besides the point? I'm just giving an example of a tutor that can help high-scoring students. And yes, he definitely can. He pointed out many mistakes in the work of people who eventually got 45+, including some who got 50.
Would you need to( or know to) question them about every single thing to find it out or would they actually just tell you as you cover the topic?
( I guess this depends on the actual tutor)
You just go through the course entirely, ask the students on what they know, test them to see whether they really do know it, and then point out these small things as you go. That's how most tutors (at this level at least) would teach.
I think for a majority of things, you would be able to find the "correct" way of setting out your work ( following text book examples, study guide examples, teachers advice, notes online etc). What other kinds of small things would you be referring to?
I can comfortably say most people actually don't after having seen my friends' work, and having been a tutor. It's not something people pay much attention to, either in maths/science calculations, or in short answer questions. Other small things include short cuts in Maths, little technicalities in wording to avoid in subjects such as Biology and the things to pay attention to when writing essays in English.
I'm not saying there isn't any benefit of getting a tutor even if you're performing well but I think, it's not very noticeable in most cases.
My original post was kind of referring to sacs, where I found that nothing I learnt outside was really helpful.
You're equating what happened to yourself as what you think would occur in 'most cases'. I'm not sure whether it's just that I had a lucky run with good tutors, but I'm assuming and hope that most people have tutors that actually do the things I've pointed out above. I'm sure plenty of tutors on VN do this.
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Well..... Tutors are mainly beneficial if you are not doing your best or THE best.
that being said though, Is anyone doing THE absolute BEST without the external help of anyone? if you are then i salute you .
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Would the tutor be able to point out all these small things that would make a major difference on your score? ( For someone such as that doctor guy, he would as he's specifically looking to help students that are already achieving high scores but what if a good student is unable to get such a tutor?)
Isn't accessibility besides the point? I'm just giving an example of a tutor that can help high-scoring students. And yes, he definitely can. He pointed out many mistakes in the work of people who eventually got 45+, including some who got 50. I think it's relevant because there is no point finding out that there are tutors out there that can help students that would already achieve high scores if they can't "use" their services.
So thats why I said I was referring to most cases because a lot of students who could achieve around a 40 may want a tutor that can help improve their standards but may not be able to get such a tutor
Would you need to( or know to) question them about every single thing to find it out or would they actually just tell you as you cover the topic?
( I guess this depends on the actual tutor)
You just go through the course entirely, ask the students on what they know, test them to see whether they really do know it, and then point out these small things as you go. That's how most tutors (at this level at least) would teach.
I think for a majority of things, you would be able to find the "correct" way of setting out your work ( following text book examples, study guide examples, teachers advice, notes online etc). What other kinds of small things would you be referring to?
I can comfortably say most people actually don't after having seen my friends' work, and having been a tutor. It's not something people pay much attention to, either in maths/science calculations, or in short answer questions. Other small things include short cuts in Maths, little technicalities in wording to avoid in subjects such as Biology and the things to pay attention to when writing essays in English.
This is what I was referring to as getting a tutor motivates you to study. A lot of people over look the small things because they "cant be bothered" to try and find the best way of doing things. If a student is really "motivated", they would take the initiative to find "good ways" of setting things out and so forth
I'm not saying there isn't any benefit of getting a tutor even if you're performing well but I think, it's not very noticeable in most cases.
My original post was kind of referring to sacs, where I found that nothing I learnt outside was really helpful.
You're equating what happened to yourself as what you think would occur in 'most cases'. I'm not sure whether it's just that I had a lucky run with good tutors, but I'm assuming and hope that most people have tutors that actually do the things I've pointed out above. I'm sure plenty of tutors on VN do this.
I'm not equating my own personal experience to most cases. I'm saying that those classes you're referring to have limited spots and there are a lot more 90%+ students than there are tutors that focus on helping high achieving students.
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I still don't see accessibility as a relevant factor. Your question was whether or not a tutor can help a high-end student and I think I've shown the answer is yes. Besides, if people are interested, they are around and there's space. I joined half way through the year to both of mine. Not to mention my tutors aren't the only ones doing this. My English tutor had ONE selective class, but ran like 4 others. I also know of a tutor in Kew that charges $100 per hour or something along those lines who apparently has never had a student get under 40. Like half of MHS/McRob probably went to Jacks/TSFX/Kevin's. I'm sure that plenty of student tutors even on VN can also improve high-end students as well. I basically teach exactly what my tutor taught me (although at an extremely discounted price), and that's why I successfully ran those workshop sessions over the mid-sem break. The opportunities are there if you look for them.
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I still don't see accessibility as a relevant factor. Your question was whether or not a tutor can help a high-end student and I think I've shown the answer is yes. It wasn't a question, I stated that I think it doesn't help much because in most cases, people won't even be able to get a hold of these tutors. It was more the person who made the thread that had the question of how much it helps. Besides, if people are interested, they are around and there's space. I joined half way through the year to both of mine. Not to mention my tutors aren't the only ones doing this. My English tutor had ONE selective class, but ran like 4 others. I also know of a tutor in Kew that charges $100 per hour The majority of people wouldn't even pay half of this for their tutors. You've made it sound like that those "good" tutors that can help these students probably charge a lot of money. What if they are good students but don't have the money to pay for it? Even if they do, I doubt most people would even want to pay that much. So once again, I'm referring to "most", not whether it's a possibility or something along those lines who apparently has never had a student get under 40. Like half of MHS/McRob probably went to Jacks/TSFX/Kevin's. I doubt these people/companies are able to point out those very small things. It's more like a class room environment ( such as school), so if they could cover it, there is no reason why your school teacher wouldn't be able to do it. I'm sure that plenty of student tutors even on VN can also improve high-end students as well. I basically teach exactly what my tutor taught me (although at an extremely discounted price), and that's why I successfully ran those workshop sessions over the mid-sem break. The opportunities are there if you look for them. You're own tutor was probably very expensive and I did see that workshop you ran. You said it was a lot cheaper than what your normally charge your students but for a lot of people, it wouldn't seem cheap. On top of this, you probably would of studied only a few of the texts yourself. I don't know anyone that actually went so I can only generalise for this specific event but would you have been able to point out all those very small details, unique points that are relevent to a large variety of different texts and contexts? It may just be that you're good at english but I doubt it's possible that you have heavily analysed every single novel/context that you've had to "tutor" someone for at the length you studied for your own. So in that case, a high achieving student could know a lot about their own novel/context and the tutor can help but not necessarily that much.
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I think it increased my grades by 1.6.
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Tutoring for me...well it didn't really help me that much since I was somewhat lazy in my work and was not motivated.
The tutor would explain things to me in more detail than what was presented in the lectures
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I also know of a tutor in Kew that charges $100 per hour or something along those lines who apparently has never had a student get under 40.
That's really impressive. What subject(s) did they tutor?
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I would argue that tutoring indirectly increases your grade through things like motivation and confidence (a big one).
Lots of my students are already capable -- they just don't realise it, or believe in themselves. Their low goals are their primary problem a lot of the time.
This is why I believe my role has evolved over time into one of a mentoring role, over a tutoring role. I have needed to develop interpersonal skills along with the technical academic skills I already had.
Employers lap this story up, and it's true. (Note to self: mention this more in my interviews, and less about Merspi.)
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personally. i hated methods. i got between 40-55% on sacs. i remember on one sac i got 39.5%. after getting private tutoring, i began picking up methods well and starteed getting 70-80%.
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I feel that tuition is unnecessary for subjects like Methods, Chem, Physics, Accounting and Biology. This is because hard work and effort practically guarantees a good score.
I didn't take tuition for Methods, Chem or Accounting and still did well in Methods, and ranked 1 for Chem and Acc at my school. Absolutely no need to take tuition for Further Maths. It shows that perseverance is the most important in maximising grades. For subjects like English/English language it might help because you need constant feedback.
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I feel that tuition is unnecessary for subjects like Methods, Chem, Physics, Accounting and Biology. This is because hard work and effort practically guarantees a good score.
This might be true for you, but many people don't understand the concepts in Methods and Chem for example, in which case a tutor is the best option. It really comes on a case-by-case basis I guess.
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This is because hard work and effort practically guarantees a good score.
...
*cries*
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Hmm that's true, shinny. Some concepts in Methods are difficult to get, especially if you don't have enough time to spend on the theory section.
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How come, SmRandmAzn?
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How come, SmRandmAzn?
I think I worked reasonably hard, but I somehow don't think it'll get reflected in scores >_>
I still kind of regret not getting a tutor for Science/Maths, particularly Chem and Methods.
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Aww I'm sure it will have paid off!
I'm not sure if my hard work has this year, I make the stupidest mistakes in my exams :( :(
Hope it'll be reflected in your scores! I worked so much for Accounting, but I still went and screwed up the exam :(
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tutor.... hmmm - useless
it comes down to how much work u personally put in
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hm I so wish I got a chem tutor after results >_>
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LOL obviously. If your grades are THAT gud that ur grades cant be improved, then why would you get a tutor.
just outta curiosity, what english tutor was that?
I didn't say "THAT gud".
I mean if you're already achieving like 90%+, you won't be able to see much of a change even if you get a tutor. You will still run into problems, need explanations for certain things and get stuck on questions so you can still get a tutor. It's only when you performing badly ( C's) that a tutor would really help improve your grades.
Not true. There's different levels of tutoring. For example, Dr. He in Box Hill only accepts students that pass a pretty difficult maths test, but he definitely is able to improve someone from like a 90% level to higher than that. I had a similar thing with English where I was chucked into a high level class and the tutor spent all year on fine tuning minor things.
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Well i only had proper tutoring for chemistry, but i believe indubitably that it was beneficial. I was already pretty able in chemistry, (with two A+ sacs behind me) but my tutor helped me minimize the effort required to reach that A+ level. He also taught me a gazillion shortcuts to minimize working out (Most the time i could calculate the pH off two mixtures in my head :). But then again my chem tutor was absolutely brilliant!!
tutor.... hmmm - useless
it comes down to how much work u personally put in
It is not always about how much work, but rather how smart you are about doing that work. With a tutor you can save valuable time that could be spent doing something else, that is smart!
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I never did one-on-one tutoring, but I went to Jacks for Methods and I found it boring =(
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Never did one-on-one tutoring either.
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I only ever had tutoring for year 11 English in which I was averaging Cs and had one D+ that year. The tutoring helped and by the end of that year I had Bs and As on my report with one A+
It helped out a fair amount and prepared me better for year 12 English, in which I used my teacher to help me outside of class.
If you're not doing well in a subject, tutoring can help a fair bit. I tutored a couple of friends in the year. One I helped to get an A in their SAC, another I helped improved their mark from 20% to 50% in which they were proud of.
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i nvr had a tutor =D but i did well.... i suppose i think
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To be honest, i was doing pretty terribad in methods in semester 1 i think i failed the exam but passed the unit. So, i got a tutor after that, in semester 2...and still failed. I COULD FAIL FOR FREE!?!
Although, being perfectly honest i didn't really ask much questions in tutor, i could of went as many times as i wanted to for free, we pay $40 for one lesson then between that and the next lesson you can come in for free whenever you want. I should of really taken advantage of that.
Plus, i didnt really do all that homework overall... *shrugs* who knows.
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Depends for what subject. I found English tutoring utterly useless, whereas my Japanese tutor was extremely beneficial.
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my Japanese tutor was extremely beneficial.
yesh I've had a Jap tutor since year 11. Learnt more with tutor than I did during the week at school. That's probably more to do with the poor teaching at school though.
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Without my english tutor i'd have had 35-37
with english tutor i got 44
I cannot stress enough that English tutors (good ones) can REALLY help.
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My english tutor is invaluable to my grades, being a marker of English and Literature exam papers she helps me get straight A+'s in almost every essay I've ever written (in any subject) since I started going to her.
My math tutor is really good with helping me understand the theory and what not, but in tests it all comes to do good preperation. :)
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Without my english tutor i'd have had 35-37
with english tutor i got 44
I cannot stress enough that English tutors (good ones) can REALLY help.
Hearing this makes me relieved for having an English tutor XD
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Without my english tutor i'd have had 35-37
with english tutor i got 44
I cannot stress enough that English tutors (good ones) can REALLY help.
Hearing this makes me relieved for having an English tutor XD
Mine was basically a person who sat down with me and said, "this sentence is retarded. fix it."
Or, "this idea doesn't hit the mark. There's x, y, z you're not considering. Also you're not arguing it effectively. Make this point instead of that point"
In English, you want as MUCH critique as possible. It's how you learn. Don't be afraid of making mistakes, you're 100% supposed to (and then learn from them).
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Hey enwiable and silva112, could you recommend your english tutor ?
Thanks
Unfortunately, my old one no longer tutors after pursuing a career change (Read: I scared her out of the business with my awful studentship :P)
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Without my english tutor i'd have had 35-37
with english tutor i got 44
I cannot stress enough that English tutors (good ones) can REALLY help.
Hearing this makes me relieved for having an English tutor XD
Mine was basically a person who sat down with me and said, "this sentence is retarded. fix it."
Or, "this idea doesn't hit the mark. There's x, y, z you're not considering. Also you're not arguing it effectively. Make this point instead of that point"
In English, you want as MUCH critique as possible. It's how you learn. Don't be afraid of making mistakes, you're 100% supposed to (and then learn from them).
Haha sounds like my tutor, she really has no fear of criticising HARSHLY, and if needed, swearing as well. "F*K! HOW HARD IS IT TO WRITE IT?"
.... I'm kind of scared of her now :S