ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: appianway on March 31, 2010, 11:24:43 am
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... what would you do?
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Increase flexibility. Modern education is too rigid.
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Disband student clubs? Why so?
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There really needs to be a change from teacher = school drop-out,
to teacher = educated / intelligent specialist
There are way too many teachers in schools these days in the dumb 'i-learnt-the-stuff-just-so-i-could-get-a-job' category
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There really needs to be a change from teacher = school drop-out,
to teacher = educated / intelligent specialist
There are way too many teachers in schools these days in the dumb 'i-learnt-the-stuff-just-so-i-could-get-a-job' category
+1
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i agree with most of what gmx said
in lower years they need to shift focus to building the basics in more relevant subjects
also need regular testing earlier, nothing too serious, just so students and teachers have some sort of standard to work towards each year. it also makes sure students dont proceed up through each year level with large gaps in their knowledge.
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Art and Music is not useless learning :<
And what's wrong with student clubs??
English, Geography, Sciences and Humanities should be compulsory in Junior School.
However, from year 7 onwards you should be able to choose any subjects you like, so long as you can pass a test indicating that you know the rules of grammar and can apply them without much trouble (and are also familiar with the basics of the other disciplines)
From Year 7 onward you can choose to continue with senior school, but you can also choose to go to a college which specialises in a subject area of your choice. Each college has about 4 levels = ~4 years worth of teaching, since they are specialised and therefore move through more material more quickly and more thoroughly. University courses may have requirements from different colleges, for example Arts/Law might require minimum level 3 in an Arts college and level 3 in an international relations/politics/legal studies college, so 6 years (you could alternate between colleges each semester, or even attend both simultaneously).
There should also be a lecture/tutorial system, instead of monotonous classes. In the lectures you get the theory, in the (many) tutorials you are free to talk and discuss its implications. It's much better than the class system where you can only voice your opinion when the teacher lets you.
Also, every resource you need should be online. All the lectures should be video-recorded and the lecture notes and problem sets should be available to download. Textbooks should only offer supplementary problems, or serve as a reference, but the lecture notes should be sufficient.
Students will go to uni much more competent in their subjects, so university courses need not waste time on the basics, but rather would be able to dive in the deep end at the beginning. Also, students would hopefully enjoy their chosen subjects more, and so would learn better and faster.
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Art and Music is not useless learning :<
And what's wrong with student clubs??
English, Geography, Sciences and Humanities should be compulsory in Junior School.
However, from year 7 onwards you should be able to choose any subjects you like, so long as you can pass a test indicating that you know the rules of grammar and can apply them without much trouble (and are also familiar with the basics of the other disciplines)
From Year 7 onward you can choose to continue with senior school, but you can also choose to go to a college which specialises in a subject area of your choice. Each college has about 4 levels = ~4 years worth of teaching, since they are specialised and therefore move through more material more quickly and more thoroughly. University courses may have requirements from different colleges, for example Arts/Law might require minimum level 3 in an Arts college and level 3 in an international relations/politics/legal studies college, so 6 years (you could alternate between colleges each semester, or even attend both simultaneously).
There should also be a lecture/tutorial system, instead of monotonous classes. In the lectures you get the theory, in the (many) tutorials you are free to talk and discuss its implications. It's much better than the class system where you can only voice your opinion when the teacher lets you.
Students will go to uni much more competent in their subjects, so university courses need not waste time on the basics, but rather would be able to dive in the deep end at the beginning. Also, students would hopefully enjoy their chosen subjects more, and so would learn better and faster.
That all sounds good in theory, but there are very, very few year 7's who have any idea of what they want to do with themselves in the future, so perhaps specialising isn't so good that early. And this idea isn't practical at all if one is unable to do subjects from a different 'specialising college' and can only stick to what they chose initially.
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That's why you can choose to continue with senior school if you want
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That's why you can choose to continue with senior school if you want
oh sorry i didn't read it properly, but still, at such a young age they shouldn't be able to decide to specialise as it will most likely be different from what they really want to do years later. I know exactly what i would have specialised in if had the option to in grade 7, but if i had done that i would have certainly regretted it at this age, i'm sure this is the same with a lot of people (or would be).
Improvements to the current system (more realistic approach...) I think English should be compulsory until grade 11 or 10, but not in the final year and not have to count, otherwise the system is actually fine.
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I think there should be more flexibility to take advanced courses (as in, take a year 12 or university subject in early high school) and to complete research. Those are two of the few things that the American high school system has going for it, in my eyes.
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There really needs to be a change from teacher = school drop-out,
to teacher = educated / intelligent specialist
There are way too many teachers in schools these days in the dumb 'i-learnt-the-stuff-just-so-i-could-get-a-job' category
That is true, most young teachers give me that impression for some reason. Maybe because they aren't passionate about teaching
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There really needs to be a change from teacher = school drop-out,
to teacher = educated / intelligent specialist
There are way too many teachers in schools these days in the dumb 'i-learnt-the-stuff-just-so-i-could-get-a-job' category
That is true, most young teachers give me that impression for some reason. Maybe because they aren't passionate about teaching
Maybe because DipEd was their only option, because they weren't good enough to get into what they wanted :P
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umm go to a different school where they are actually interested in getting good scores?
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I don't really rely on teachers though.
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You have some exceptionally talented teachers. You have others which aren't.
Personally, I think it's a problem with the school system, not the teachers themselves. You don't need teachers to be in the top 1% intellectually; you need them to have a profound understanding of the course and an ability to relay this to others. Passionate teachers are often turned away from schools because of the attitudes of students and the environment.
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Intelligent teachers aren't good IMO. They tend to go through things very fast because personally, themselves, are fast learners and usually pick up things quickly and don't really bother with fine details.
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Intelligent teachers aren't good IMO. They tend to go through things very fast because personally, themselves, are fast learners and usually pick up things quickly and don't really bother with fine details.
If they're intelligent at teaching, they won't do that. It can go both ways.
Anyway, I'd have done Latin from year 7->12. Other than that, nothing really.
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Intelligent teachers aren't good IMO. They tend to go through things very fast because personally, themselves, are fast learners and usually pick up things quickly and don't really bother with fine details.
If they're intelligent at teaching, they won't do that. It can go both ways.
Anyway, I'd have done Latin from year 7->12. Other than that, nothing really.
Lol, the rest of the latin cohort at my school did it from yr 7 onwards
I picked it up in the middle of yr 9 and, after doing some catch-up work, am doing well.
I reckon I remember most of the stuff better since I have learnt it more recently, particularly grammar
So that's one thing I wouldn't change
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I would've done Jap at a pro sat school instead of having fail classes at school, if somehow I could still guarantee my score.
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Yeah, i dont think its a good idea to decided what you want to do early on.
I really believe that building the foundations are important and primary schools and lower secondary education should really focus and drill in hard on the fundamentals. There are kids in my sisters Year 4 grade who still know none of their timestables or understand them while the teachers carry on with drawing and painting. This will put you behind and theres the potential to be perpetually behind (maybe a big of an exaggeration but you see my fundamentals point right).
I think it would be good to offer a watered down version of Yr 11/ Yr 12 in the proceeding years sort of as a sampler and tell them thats what VCE will be like. I remember year 9/10 SOSE/ Humanities we were doing history and torts (law) and all that. I didnt realise that this kind of corresponded to VCE History and VCE Legals. If i had a chance to sample a little bit of all the VCE subjects i believe i would of made some different choices, you go in kind of blind based on a couple sentences of descriptions (well i did).
For example chemistry below year 11-12 was nothing like it is now, i honestly thought itd be like that but boy i was wrong ( i needed chem anyway, well i did at the time and changed career choices but i still need it so its all good).
Another example, biology, pre Yr 11-12 biology was pretty different as well. I didnt think i liked biology very much or would like it at all. I had 5 subjects on my subject selection sheet in year 10... i needed one more... so i just decided to fill it with whatever my mates were doing... it was a toss up between biology or geography... im lucky i chose biology.. i absolutely love the subject and i wouldnt of known this if i never made that random choice. Im lucky in that respect because the geography students get royally screwed over.
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... what would you do?
less piano in early childhood and more maths
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I think it would be good to offer a watered down version of Yr 11/ Yr 12 in the proceeding years sort of as a sampler and tell them thats what VCE will be like.
I liked the massive jump from Y10 to VCE, it was very motivating.
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I was more aiming for a way for prospective year 11 students to have a better idea of what each course constitutes and the beginning of year 11 was a terribad time for me. [But i see your point]
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There really needs to be a change from teacher = school drop-out,
to teacher = educated / intelligent specialist
There are way too many teachers in schools these days in the dumb 'i-learnt-the-stuff-just-so-i-could-get-a-job' category
At school I rarely had teachers like that (e.g. My maths teacher had a BSc.Honours).
But the thing is that with the salary teachers get and the fact you aren't constantly learning new stuff in the field you teach, people who are specialists would rather become an academic, where you teach and do research.
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Also I want to add.
With English there should be a test on the basics after year 9 so the school can see where students are and offer resources to help get your skills up.
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Also I want to add.
With English there should be a test on the basics after year 9 so the school can see where students are and offer resources to help get your skills up.
should do this for all subjects
i went to a pretty shit school and, i admit i wasnt any better at being a student so quite a lot of my vce years were spent trying to self teach myself stuff i shuld have known from years ago :P
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Also I want to add.
With English there should be a test on the basics after year 9 so the school can see where students are and offer resources to help get your skills up.
Isn't there already a test? NAPLAN or something?
Our school did tests but nothing was ever done about it cause it was bad for the students mindset or something. Segregating the good students from the bad students was not beneficial for anyone, "apparently".
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Also I want to add.
With English there should be a test on the basics after year 9 so the school can see where students are and offer resources to help get your skills up.
Isn't there already a test? NAPLAN or something?
Our school did tests but nothing was ever done about it cause it was bad for the students mindset or something. Segregating the good students from the bad students was not beneficial for anyone, "apparently".
you dont even have to segrigate ppl, just give out the test results (privatly of course) with a list of things u NEED to improve on if u intend to do well later on
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I would actually care rather than sleeping through classes. I would pursue learning earlier and better. And try and get the most out of all of my classes. So it was all my attitude. :\
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you dont even have to segrigate ppl, just give out the test results (privatly of course) with a list of things u NEED to improve on if u intend to do well later on
Yeah true, like the careers counselor but have a teacher who you can go to to catch up or go through the tests and year worth of work with etc.
I wish they had the SEAL program in every school as well. I found I had a lot of motivation from grade 6 to year 7 (new school wanting to be the best) which would have been the best time to catch me with that program (or a similar program).
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I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I am kind of curious as to the Asian-country style of ranking students and classes. I know, we already have like accelerated maths and stuff in early years, but I was thinking about this separation and having different curriculum for classes of different standards. I know you might say "all the lazy kids will just influence each other and exacerbate the problem", but maybe, with a different system for tackling these childrens you might make the difference. Plus, if you have all the people in methods one class doing spesh as well, that class could be made a whole lot more convenient.
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- I wish I read more throughout younger years
- Starting learning French in year seven
- attempted to receive a placement in one of the 'elite' schools
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- attempted to receive a placement in one of the 'elite' schools
Similar- Wish I had tried harder, I just kind of signed up and went half-assed into the room, and stuffed up majorly on maths. Then when I got the PD, my application was accepted, but I stuffed up the interview.
THEN in year 10, a girl who did french quit, so that meant one french spot, and I didn't bother going.
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Similar- Wish I had tried harder, I just kind of signed up and went half-assed into the room, and stuffed up majorly on maths. Then when I got the PD, my application was accepted, but I stuffed up the interview.
0.o I remember my parents doing most of the interview.
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how could that be :S? Didn't you sit alone in a room? or are you talking figuratively
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No lol I went in the room with my parents, and I think there was a time when the headmaster guy wanted to talk with my parents alone
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AS IF KYZOO! For the macrob one (kay guys...im a girl==), we had a personal interview, for the Principal's Discretion placement. The principal and the lady who is in charge of selection asked me random questions.
WORST BIT EVER:
principal: what subjects do you enjoy?
me: english maths tech design. I'm making a rabbit.
Principal: is it a white rabbit?
me: ....Yes it is a white rabbit.
That is apparently, how I "engaged" my interviewers in an exciting and convincing way.
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xD siff they ask you about rabbits
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THEY DID. Its gunna haunt me forever.
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-Start trying earlier... Took until about year 10 before I revised for tests :laugh:
-Paid more attention/Learnt year 11 courses better. Coming back to bite me now in yr 12!
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- As with TT, less piano in early childhood and more maths, good to start early
- more student clubs would be great
- wider range of subject choices, do perhaps one 3/4 in year 10
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... what would you do?
less piano in early childhood and more maths
C'mon TT, you wouldn't be the virtuoso you are now. As if you would regret music, it gives your life meaning, maths doesn't (well I may be wrong haha).
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... what would you do?
less piano in early childhood and more maths
BOTH are awesome! :D
C'mon TT, you wouldn't be the virtuoso you are now. As if you would regret music, it gives your life meaning, maths doesn't (well I may be wrong haha).
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How can you regret music?
... If I could go back about 7 years, I'd have done more violin.
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How can you regret music?
... If I could go back about 7 years, I'd have done more violin.
Wait, I don't. I love music, but I should've done more maths, that's all.
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Actually, come to think of it, if I could go right back, I would've gone to VCASS for years 7 and 8 and then changed to selective. But it's too late now...
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I would've tried out for MHS. I had people telling me to do it back then but I honestly didn't care and did not want to go there and now I sort of regret it. Oh well; it couldn't have made that big of a difference anyway.