ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Faculties => Law => Topic started by: Jshaz on July 04, 2010, 02:35:52 am
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Hey guys, pretty new here, so please be welcoming :)
Pretty much wanted to know people's opinion on what would be more appealing to law firms (a Law degree (LLB) bachelor):
1) Mediocre scores from a prestigious university (monash/melb)
2) High scores from a mediocre uni (rmit/deakin)
Obviously it would be more difficult to maintain a consistent mediocre average at a prestigious uni, as the competition is higher......
excuse the syntax.........its really late, or early depending on your perspective
cheers
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It depends what you mean by 'mediocre grades', I think.
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Hey,
I have spoken about this to lots of law firms and lawyers. 10 years ago- yes prestige played a role. 2010? Not at all. These days it is all about performance and extra curricular involvement. My friend who is a barrister said when she was working in NYC know one had even heard of melb uni/monash/deakin anyway, so try not to get consumed by pretension. Also not trying to alarm you but your vce subjects do not really fit the llb/ba at all. Most of the law kids i know who struggle are the ones who studied mostly maths and science at vce level and obtained their high enter this way. You need exceptional english skills and analytical ability. Maybe go for the llb/commerce or science or something...
I am currently doing the llb/ba at monash btw so i am not just being biased! good luck
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Welcome to VN! :)
I wouldn't entirely say "not at all". I think university does play a role still, though obviously it wouldn't in the USA where nobody knows anything about Australia :P
However, I don't have much evidence for this - I don't really know any lawyers. I only say this because I've been to a few group shortlist interviews for legal volunteering work, and every time, out of on average 15 shortlisted people, at most one would be from Deakin - the rest were from UoM or Monash, and there was never anybody from RMIT or VU.
That said, university is mostly about your first legal job - that's when recruiters would care most, because they don't really have much else to go by. But once you get some experience, ANY experience, doesn't necessarily have to be at a top or mid tier firm, then your university (and even marks) become pretty much irrelevant.
I would also disagree with the subjects comment. I think you just need to be excellent at English. My top 6 was English, methods, chemistry, German, music and business management and I'm not finding law exceptionally difficult.
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I would also disagree with the subjects comment. I think you just need to be excellent at English. My top 6 was English, methods, chemistry, German, music and business management and I'm not finding law exceptionally difficult.
*insert expletive here* >.<
and yea.....according to the ppl i did work experience with(and they srsly knew their stuff, ninwa will agree with me :P ) they said that it was significantly harder to get into the top top law firms with a degree that was not from UoM/Monash. However, between the two, the're really not much difference, and again i'm pretty sure that ninwa will back me up again. Having said that, everyone that went to monash said GO TO MONASH IT'S THE BEST, and rather unpredictably, the same went with ppl from UoM. :P
So yea, basically, not impossible, but a deal harder.
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1)So in that case i guess it comes down to either arts/law at monash or UoM JD. Is the risk of not getting into the JD really worth it?
Also, i recently heard that Monash has decreased the transfer rate (internal) into law from 25% to 5% (reliable source).
2)What type of scores would i be looking at in the top 5%?
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1)So in that case i guess it comes down to either arts/law at monash or UoM JD. Is the risk of not getting into the JD really worth it?
Also, i recently heard that Monash has decreased the transfer rate (internal) into law from 25% to 5% (reliable source).
2)What type of scores would i be looking at in the top 5%?
As ninwa would say 'all law degrees are fundementally the same so doing a JD gives you no real advantage over doing a LLB' and she would be correct. But there are other reason for going to melbourne. E.g. i'm planning on going to UoM cos 1) I'm not entirely sure i wanna do law, 2) Act stud is not really offered at monash and 3) it a hell of a lot more convinient to get to. Fighting for my place in the JD (if i am gonna do it) is no doubt going to be a bitch tho so you should keep that in mind when deciding, also only 50% of places are CSP places, i.e. a full fee place is ~$90 grand and CSP palce is ~$24.
If you are super set on doing law, go to monash, if there are other reason how ever and UoM has more advantages for you, go to Uom, but do keep in mind that you will have to work pretty hard to get ur place in the JD. Unless of couse you get a guranteed place in the JD (i.e. get 99+ for a full fee place, or 99.90+ for a CSP place).
Alternatively, go interstate??? ANU have got a decent law course from what i hear....
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Damnit, thanks to tram I am no longer useful in the law forum :(
*leaves*
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LOL....soz ninwa.... :P
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Most of the law kids i know who struggle are the ones who studied mostly maths and science at vce level and obtained their high enter this way.
*cough*azn nerds who's parents have pushed them into law*cough* :P
yes, i do realise the hypcrocy given my subjects :P
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Also, i recently heard that Monash has decreased the transfer rate (internal) into law from 25% to 5% (reliable source).
What type of scores would i be looking at in the top 5%?
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NINWA.............WHERE ARE YOU WHEN WE NEED YOU????????????? :P
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Also, i recently heard that Monash has decreased the transfer rate (internal) into law from 25% to 5% (reliable source).
What type of scores would i be looking at in the top 5%?
Screw it, i'm gonna have a crack. I'm not sure about the 25%-->5% thing, ninwa should b able to confirm that, but if you wanna get into the top 5%, you would at the VERY LEAST need HDs, i.e. minumum 80%??
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HELLO!
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,23471.0.html
However it doesn't say anything about actual percentages, just that it's becoming more competitive.
The law faculty says you need at least a distinction average to transfer into law, but there are so many people wanting to do that I'd aim for a high distinction average to be on the safe side.
NINWA.............WHERE ARE YOU WHEN WE NEED YOU????????????? :P
I fell asleep okay!!!!!!!!!
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NINWA.............WHERE ARE YOU WHEN WE NEED YOU????????????? :P
I fell asleep okay!!!!!!!!!
nope, not good enough, isn't there some rule that bcs ur a mod you have you give up sleeping so that you can be on vn 24/7??? :P
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No, that's enwiabe's job :D
I lol'd at your DP.
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lol.....yea, i am getting quite a few comments about the dp :D
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Is it possible to do an honours year for JD as it is in LLB?
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i'm pretty sure honours years are only for undergrauate degrees....
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Honours is ugrad, yeah. If you finish a graduate degree and want to do further study you can do a Masters or a PhD
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My understanding is that Honours works differently from other degree. There's no 'Honours' year as in other courses - Honours is awarded based on your marks throughout the course.
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That's correct. However, you can do an optional thesis of 10k - 12k words, which could potentially push you into a higher class of honours and also makes you more attractive to employers.
Further info here: http://www.law.monash.edu.au/undergraduate/honours/index.html
I couldn't find any info on honours in the JD website. I'm assuming as a technically masters degree it probably wouldn't (masters degrees don't have honours, do they?)
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That's correct. However, you can do an optional thesis of 10k - 12k words, which could potentially push you into a higher class of honours and also makes you more attractive to employers.
Further info here: http://www.law.monash.edu.au/undergraduate/honours/index.html
I couldn't find any info on honours in the JD website. I'm assuming as a technically masters degree it probably wouldn't (masters degrees don't have honours, do they?)
K thanks for the info - I guess if I want to do further study after JD (when I've already been in uni for 7 years lol) I'll have to go on to Masters (LLM)... :D
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I couldn't find any info on honours in the JD website. I'm assuming as a technically masters degree it probably wouldn't (masters degrees don't have honours, do they?)
wait, ninwa, are you sure the monash JD is a master degree?? :P
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I couldn't find any info on honours in the JD website. I'm assuming as a technically masters degree it probably wouldn't (masters degrees don't have honours, do they?)
Yeah, not as far as I know. There are the 1st class/2nd class etc. from your grades but not a formal honours year.
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I couldn't find any info on honours in the JD website. I'm assuming as a technically masters degree it probably wouldn't (masters degrees don't have honours, do they?)
Yeah, not as far as I know. There are the 1st class/2nd class etc. from your grades but not a formal honours year.
Really? That's how LLB honours work too. In that case I guess JD also has a similar system then.
I couldn't find any info on honours in the JD website. I'm assuming as a technically masters degree it probably wouldn't (masters degrees don't have honours, do they?)
wait, ninwa, are you sure the monash JD is a master degree?? :P
Shush, you
*slinks off*
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soz ninwa, couldn't resist :P
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Really? That's how LLB honours work too. In that case I guess JD also has a similar system then.
I'm just speaking generally about postgrad/undergrad study, no idea what exactly happens with the JD.
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I thought honours was an extra year of study/research after bachelors'.
Also, do you think economics/finance or actuarial studies is more compatible to law, in terms of work/corporate-commercial-banking-financy law jobs?
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I thought honours was an extra year of study/research after bachelors'.
It is for almost every discipline except law. (There is an optional research subject, if you feel like it...)
Also, do you think economics/finance or actuarial studies is more compatible to law, in terms of work/corporate-commercial-banking-financy law jobs?
I would definitely say economics/finance. I have seen job ads asking for commerce/law students majoring in finance/accounting (not so much economics though).
I'm not entirely certain what actuaries do but I gather it is some sort of risk assessment/analysis, in which case you don't really need law for it.
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Ok yeah, I'm not sure whether to do economics/finance as a double major or actuarial studies because I'm kind of doubting the kind of use law has on risk analysis and what job you would get combining both actuarial studies and law. Both great majors, but not sure how they link together. Of course, I have almost 3 years to decide, but I'm actually leaning towards eco/finance + law, just because I think they are more compatible.
So basically, if you do exceptional in your LLB, you get honours, without an extra year of study or anything like that? What standard do you need to be at to get awarded honours usually? H1A?
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Hey, like, with the whole act stud + law thing, it really depends what you want to do. If you wanna do more lawy stuff, so things like wokking for a big law firm in property takeovers, then act stud will not be as useful, but if you want to work more as an actuary, say in a bank, i would say that law would definitely help actuarial studies. Like, it all depends on which bit you want to emphasise in your career, the act stud bit, or the law bit.
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Okay, but what I don't see is how law helps actuarial work, which is basically risk modelling/analysis of insurance rates and premiums...
Whereas quoting Monash Uni's law faculty, "Postgraduate study in the area of banking and finance law provides students with a thorough grounding in the fundamental principles of security and financial services law, covering local and international developments from both practical and policy perspectives. From corporate insolvency to international transactions and electronic banking, students can choose units from a wide selection of units and design a course that best facilitates career enhancement and personal satisfaction." So I figure that finance does help if you want to do banking/financial law, and perhaps corporate law somewhat.
EDIT: Perhaps: Q: In your opinion, how does the law and actuarial science interrelate? Can you foresee someone with a legal background, who is also interested in pursuing actuarial science, be of benefit to a prospective employer?If so,which of the two( soa or cas) sets of exams will you advise that person to pursue? -- A.M. Felix, BSc., LLB.
A: I believe the law and actuarial science interrelate in many situations. One benefit of a legal background is understanding how the laws affect insurance coverage. For example, the law in several states allows some public entities to have their liabilities capped at a certain maximum amount. Another example is workers compensation, where the available benefits to injured workers are based upon the laws of that particular state. As a result, a legal background might help an actuary when estimating the ultimate cost of insurance claims.
As far as which track is better for people with a legal background (SOA vs CAS), I am not sure that one is better than the other. While I have less experience in health and pension, I know that each of these fields employs lawyers (who are not actuaries) to review benefit plans. I suspect that lawyers could assist with property and casualty issues as well. However, a career in which you function as both an actuary and a lawyer may not exist in either society. I would recommend contacting a consulting firm and an insurance company for their thoughts if you are interested in pursuing a dual career.
Source: http://www.beanactuary.org/onthejob/ask/ask01.cfm
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Extra knowlege of the law, and how to argue and the principles behind the justce system and the laws that are in place are going to to help you in any commery job. The field of commerce and buiness and banking is pinned down by a myriad of laws. Having a lw degree will dfinitely help you in my opinion. Heck, pretty much any profession could be bettered by having a law degree.
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Extra knowlege of the law, and how to argue and the principles behind the justce system and the laws that are in place are going to to help you in any commery job. The field of commerce and buiness and banking is pinned down by a myriad of laws. Having a lw degree will dfinitely help you in my opinion. Heck, pretty much any profession could be bettered by having a law degree.
Fair enough :) Lol ok so if I want to work at a law firm, an eco/finance degree would be better with law. If I want to work at an actuarial/business firm, clearly, I would do actuarial studies, then law if I wish to. That sounds about right... at least I have a decent amount of time to make my final decision :D
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So basically, if you do exceptional in your LLB, you get honours, without an extra year of study or anything like that? What standard do you need to be at to get awarded honours usually? H1A?
There's no such thing as doing an extra year for honours in law.
See here: http://www.law.monash.edu.au/undergraduate/honours/index.html
First class honours requires a 73 average (low distinction, I think it's called H2A or something at UoM).
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close, but 70-74 = H2B and 75-79 = H2A