ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Universities - Victoria => University of Melbourne => Topic started by: Ilovemathsmeth on October 14, 2010, 04:44:06 pm
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Hi :)
I'm doing an Actuarial Studies major and was hoping to combine it with a concurrent diploma in Applied Mathematics. Are there any added benefits of doing this diploma in terms of employment opportunities? Is it useful to be doing such a diploma along side Actuarial studies?
Please help :)
Ilovemathsmeth
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From what I gather, the employment options for an actuary are pretty good without one (since it's such a competitive degree) but I'll let actual actuarial students handle this.
If nobody knows i can ask my mate, he's running (or doing something high up in) the act. society at melb.
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I wouldn't think so. If you make it thought the course you should be able to find job reasonably easily as there is a steady demand for actuaries (as russ said). Having extra mathematical knowledge may help, but like, a good interview would probably count for a lot more e.g. it's not uncommon at all for people who only did the act stud major to get jobs over honours students.
Having said that, i do plan to do a diploma myself, the diploma of music (practical) to be specific becuase not only do i really enjoy music and would like a few letters after my name to show the work that i have done over the years, but ECs like music are good for CVs :D Also the big plus side is that even with the diploma, it will only take me three years to finish the degree.
But anyway, if i were in your position, i would stick to the main degree :)
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The diploma will add an extra year to the degree, I got told? How can you fit that in in 3 years with only 1 breadth a year?
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That's why it adds a year...
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That's why it adds a year...
How come you can finish a Dip of Music with BComm in 3 years? By overloading massively?
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I have no idea on what a music diploma requires. off the top of my head, there may be a practical component that allows you to get greater credit etc.
But in general, the purpose of the extra year is to give you the time needed to finish the diploma as well as your degree.
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Dip of music is pretty easy... but it'd be a waste to do music @ Melbourne or any uni's in AUS
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Dip of music is pretty easy... but it'd be a waste to do music @ Melbourne or any uni's in AUS
Does it only consist of 1 music subject each year?
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for music performance? you do 6 subjects over the course of 3 years, so i think it's 2 subjects per year
although there are alot of exceptions, alot of students who learn with my teacher just skip subjects, get exemptions etc and just simply practise 24/7 lol
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yeah, you could overload if you want, but depending on your connections i know some people who don't have to do those bs history and theory subjects.
But yeah do a concurrent course in maths :P way better than a diploma in music
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But yeah do a concurrent course in maths :P way better than a diploma in music
Pure or applied? I'm guessing pure is more enjoyable, and applied is more useful (hence the 'applicable')?
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Actuarial (H) Hutchoo likes the sound of pure math.
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Thanks for the replies :) So there's no real advantage apart from letting me pursue my interest? See that's the thing, I'm not sure if giving up an entire year, plus the workload that comes with it is worth pursuing my interest when I'm already doing a Maths based degree.
Yep you do either overload or in my case it adds a year.
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Yep applied :) I went to the info session today and decided I wasn't suitable for Pure Maths. All those proofs and questions sounded too much like Linear Algebra *shudder*
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Yep applied :) I went to the info session today and decided I wasn't suitable for Pure Maths. All those proofs and questions sounded too much like Linear Algebra *shudder*
OK. I'll probably do pure if I choose to do economics (even though economics involved applied maths). It sounds so good! :) Otherwise, just standalone actuarial, not worth adding an extra year when I've also got the JD.
Pure Mathematics
Are you the sort of person who finds the elegance of mathematics attractive?
Do you enjoy proving seemingly useless but nevertheless interesting results?
If you answered yes to these questions, then pure maths may be the way forward
for you.
In the pure maths specialisation, more than any other, you’ll discover why
maths is regarded as an art as well as a science (though, quite possibly, only
mathematicians put it like this). Pure mathematics is about studying the underlying
concepts that make all maths work. And besides that, it’s just really
cool stuff.
The variety of material in the pure maths specialisation makes it particularly
interesting. You’ll find out that solving polynomials isn’t just as simple as
using the quadratic formula. In fact, you’ll even see why there is no quintic
formula. You’ll discover that a punctured torus (a donut surface with a hole
in it) is essentially the same as two circles joined at a point. Just don’t tell any
bakers that one, it may blow their minds and result in some strange looking
donuts later on. These are just tiny fragments of what you’ll learn studying
pure maths, but just as a small warning, this specialisation is not for the faint
of heart.
Applied Mathematics
Do you really like formulae? Would you like to see how maths can be used in
the real world? And most importantly, do you really really like calculus? If the
answers to these questions are yes, then you should be looking into applied
maths.
Applied mathematics is about trying to model complicated systems and then
poking around with the inputs to see how things change under certain conditions.
Applied mathematics has applications in just about every field you
can think of. In the applied maths specialisation, you learn techniques and
skills that will enable you to solve certain types of equations which commonly
crop up in the real world, such as modeling river flows or how human cells
reproduce. Just be prepared for a lot of calculus.
Probability, Statistics and Stochastic Processes
You see statistics all the time. Figures, percentages and ratios are thrown up all
the time in the modern world. But do you ever wonder how meaningful these
numbers are? When you play a card game, do you ever wonder, “well that
was unlikely, but exactly how unlikely was it?” We all know that smoking is
bad for you, but how exactly do you prove this? If these are things that you’ve
wondered about, then you should be looking into probability, statistics and
stochastic processes.
In probability you’ll learn how to calculate the probability of certain events
happening, and study various distributions occurring naturally in the real
world. An important use of probability is its application to statistics and
stochastic processes. In statistics you’ll learn how to properly analyse a data
set. By creating statistical models you’ll be able to test the effects of certain
variables on others. Stochastic processes is about modeling random processes
that occur in the world. For example, you can model the number of people
who walk into a shopping centre. You can even attempt to make money by
modeling financial markets, though personally I wouldn’t recommend this off
just your undergraduate subjects.
Discrete Mathematics and Operations Research
So we all spend plenty of time bagging our the government for being slow,
inefficient, wasteful, or more often than not all of the above. But how would
you make it better? Do you spend time thinking about how you could make
processes faster, more efficient and just better in general? If these questions
appeal to you, then you should be looking into discrete mathematics and operations
research.
This specialisation is all about decision making. And decision making is hard.
Just think about a can of baked beans, and the path it travels from the farm
where the original beans are grown, to your dinner plate. There’s at least a
dozen different processes that have to happen before it reaches you. Now the
question is, what’s the best way to do this? You’d want to reduce time, but also
costs, and then on top of that increase quality. All of a sudden your choices
aren’t all so clear cut. Operations research deals with these sorts of issues in
a scientific manner to help with decision making. And with society becoming
more complex, and processes becoming more numerous, there’s no doubt this field is important.
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But yeah do a concurrent course in maths :P way better than a diploma in music
Pure or applied? I'm guessing pure is more enjoyable, and applied is more useful (hence the 'applicable')?
pure for sure, it's actually more helpful for actuarial studies, the problem solving connects nicely with actuarial studies. (in my actuarial exam a few days ago there was a hard problem solving Q :P required a bit of combinatorial thinking too lol)
besides pure maths is where all maths comes from! without pure there will be no applied!
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pure for sure, it's actually more helpful for actuarial studies, the problem solving connects nicely with actuarial studies. (in my actuarial exam a few days ago there was a hard problem solving Q :P required a bit of combinatorial thinking too lol)
Yeah, pure definitely sounds better - I love problem solving!
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APPLIED all the way! YAY it's got more Calculus (I'm really obsessed with Calculus stuff, how amazing are differential equations?)
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lol DE's... for me they're as robotic as maths can get :P
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So you don't like them ? :(
They were so fun when we did them. Now we're doing functions of 2 variables, AWESOME stuff :)
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I like all areas of maths, but i guess you can say they're not that interesting lol, I mean what's the fun of applying the same method over and over again to each class of different DE's it gets boring and plus i doubt most people who compute DE's appreciate the beauty of how the methods of solving it was derived :P it's the same with multivariable calculus, i love to see how double integrals and triple integrals and the 'formulas' for computing them are derived (the hardwork!) but then applying them over and over again using the same tactics gets boring.
but say for example... graph theory! every question is different, there's no set tactic, to do a question you must understand the fundamentals of how some of the most famous theorems are derived (euler's formula~) and it never gets boring :D
anyways whatever floats you boat! if DE's are interesting for you then enjoy them!!!
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Never took maths past 1st year, but I agree with the DE. Everyone in my class freaked out over them and I swear to god I was standing there going "but it's the same thing".
I guess if you don't like/understand the method they'd be annoying though.
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Yep applied :) I went to the info session today and decided I wasn't suitable for Pure Maths. All those proofs and questions sounded too much like Linear Algebra *shudder*
Ah, so you were the first one who asked Christine a question at the end of the session.
Real Analysis with Applications is the subject with rigorous proofs I heard, and it's pretty much compulsory if you want to do a diploma.
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Yep I was - very observant of you. I was wearing a white sweater :P
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1) Re the dip mus:Techincally you overload and do 1.5. extra subjects per semester. The '1' subject is an ensemble and the '0.5' subjects is your half hours music lesson per week. So really it's not too much of a time commitment. For the dip mus, you can only take two academic music subjects (ie. subject like music theory or the history of music) as breath that will count towards the diploma anyway, so the limited number of breath subjects in the act stud. degree isn't a problem. Hence the dip mus won't add an extra year to your degree.
2)APPLIED all the way! YAY it's got more Calculus (I'm really obsessed with Calculus stuff, how amazing are differential equations?)
Wooooooo applied all the way!!!!
So you don't like them ? :(
They were so fun when we did them. Now we're doing functions of 2 variables, AWESOME stuff :)
Mulivarible calculus is AWESOME, esp multiple integrals :D :D
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wait you've done them...already???
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wait you've done them...already???
UMEP Maths, maybe?
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I thought they did other stuff in Uni Maths :S Like sequences and more like pure maths?
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wait you've done them...already???
UMEP Maths, maybe?
yeah, ummm topics we're done:
- Numbers and proof
- Matricies
- Systems of equations (matrix heaven)
- Complex numbers (complex exponential)
- Vectors (dot, cross and tripple product)
- Functions of several varible ( planes, lines in three d)
- multivatible calculus (partial derivatives, multiple integrals)
- Vector spaces (linear dependence/ in dependence, defintions, linear transformations, eigenvectors) MASSIVE UNIT
That's just a general rundown of what we cover in umep, linear algebra/pure mathsy stuff defintely is empasised in the course..... vector spaces...... *dies*
Oh and they've taken out all that sequencea and series stuff out of the course.....
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wait you've done them...already???
UMEP Maths, maybe?
yeah, ummm topics we're done:
- Numbers and proof
- Matricies
- Systems of equations (matrix heaven)
- Complex numbers (complex exponential)
- Vectors (dot, cross and tripple product)
- Functions of several varible ( planes, lines in three d)
- multivatible calculus (partial derivatives, multiple integrals)
- Vector spaces (linear dependence/ in dependence, defintions, linear transformations, eigenvectors) MASSIVE UNIT
That's just a general rundown of what we cover in umep, linear algebra/pure mathsy stuff defintely is empasised in the course..... vector spaces...... *dies*
Oh and they've taken out all that sequencea and series stuff out of the course.....
That's annoying, apparently a lot of calc went out too. I do remember hearing about methods of proof, vectors (inner products lol), matrices and eigenvalues. :)
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I HATE Linear Algebra. Those proofs make me nauseous. I have Lawrence as my lecturer. Any comments? I'm not sure, he seems angry most of the time...
I really dislike vector spaces/subspaces/spanning sets - to me, they don't really make sense. :(
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I HATE Linear Algebra. Those proofs make me nauseous. I have Lawrence as my lecturer. Any comments? I'm not sure, he seems angry most of the time...
I really dislike vector spaces/subspaces/spanning sets - to me, they don't really make sense. :(
YES WOOOOOOO SOMEONE THAT AGGRESS WITH ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i have no idea about UoM lecturers....i do uni maths at the MGGS school centre so don't know any of the uni lecturers.....
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Ahh right wow so you don't need to attend the lectures - are you doing it from Melb Uni though?
And yeah, everyone in my tute hates Linear Algebra too.
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I HATE Linear Algebra. Those proofs make me nauseous. I have Lawrence as my lecturer. Any comments? I'm not sure, he seems angry most of the time...
I really dislike vector spaces/subspaces/spanning sets - to me, they don't really make sense. :(
lol. I'm in L.R.'s lecture as well. I don't know why but I find him hilarious. Yes, he is angry with the amount of the talking during and just before he commences the lecture, but he's still a good bloke.
Also, with proofs, if you're really feeling uncomfortable with them, I'd go to Deb's lecture at 9am. Unlike Lawrence who uses notation and makes it assumed knowledge, Deb uses language we can understand to go through the proof.
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Really? Yeah L.R seems okay when you ask him stuff in person (done that twice) but yeah his proofs are just confusing. Maybe I'll attend Deb's lecture instead.
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linear algebra isn't that pure, it's entirely applied, just shows how pure maths creeps its way into applied maths :P
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linear algebra isn't that pure, it's entirely applied, just shows how pure maths creeps its way into applied maths :P
I would disagree.
Also, treating maths as the union of applied and pure, with a null intersection doesn't seem to be a useful or accurate dichotomy.
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i've never seen lin alg as pure, maybe because it doesn't interest me in the areas i study, but yeah definitely some branches of maths has a union of both areas although the majority of branches starts with axioms and proofs which interests me as a pure mathematician. How useful or however you apply it gets boring after a while.
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+1 mark, totally agree. Also would like to add that the whole "pure maths is about proofs, applied maths is about doing computations" is totally crap: for example Terry Tao mentions There’s more to mathematics than rigour and proofs while one of my operations research(applied math) lecturers said that "if you don't like proofs then you don't like maths, sure you may be able to integration by parts or solve DE's, but that isn't maths, that is something a computer can do". The dichotomy and false characterizations come from an incomplete undergraduate eduation. The linear algebra comment is an example; just give TT a year or so until he does some abstract algebra and his opinion will be totally different as he has probably only been exposed to playing around with matrices mostly for the sake of solving linear equations or using products to find angles between vectors.
the majority of branches starts with axioms and proofs which interests me as a pure mathematician
Although this is an important way to learn as an undergraduate, also note (read the terry tao thing I linked) that when it comes to doing something non-trivial, a key piece of intuition is sometimes much more valuable. A lot of mathematics was created before it was studied axiomatically (ie: you don't pull out random definitions out of your arse, you only make definitions after you see that an idea is useful/interesting, eg: lots of mathematicians did group theory before they had a definition of a group)
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Although this is an important way to learn as an undergraduate, also note (read the terry tao thing I linked) that when it comes to doing something non-trivial, a key piece of intuition is sometimes much more valuable. A lot of mathematics was created before it was studied axiomatically (ie: you don't pull out random definitions out of your arse, you only make definitions after you see that an idea is useful/interesting, eg: lots of mathematicians did group theory before they had a definition of a group)
yeah that is quite true, however that's what bonds everything together, the 'experiments' that you do eventually gets formalised and that is what i mean, the starting point for most mathematics starts with definitions and fundamentals and proofs which you must know before attempting the more advanced :) HOW these definitions came about (which is what you are trying to emphasize), i don't really give a shit about, but the point is they form the basis of most (perhaps all) branches of mathematics.
Wow that tao post is nice, especially this one: http://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/there%E2%80%99s-more-to-mathematics-than-grades-and-exams-and-methods/
When learning mathematics as an undergraduate student, there is often a heavy emphasis on grade averages, and on exams which often emphasize memorisation of techniques and theory than on actual conceptual understanding, or on either intellectual or intuitive thought.
that's so true, and this is how I feel about how monash (maybe other unis as well) teaches maths... it's so damn boring, wish i could skip it already
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BComm majoring in Actuarial Studies with a Diploma in Mathematical Sciences
Year 1
Sem 1
Introductory Microeconomics (compulsory)
Accounting Reports and Analysis
Vector Calculus (2nd year) – cross-credit
Principles of Business Law
Sem 2
Introductory Macroeconomics (compulsory)
Accounting Transactions and Analysis
Accelerated Mathematics 2 – cross-credit
Introduction to Actuarial Studies
Year 2
Sem 1
Organisational Behaviour (compulsory)
Probability (compulsory) – cross-credit
Financial Maths I
Business Finance
Complex Analysis 3rd year (overload)
Sem 2
Intermediate Macroeconomics
Statistics (compulsory)
Financial Maths II
Corporate Law
Group Theory and Linear Algebra (overload)
Year 3
Sem 1
Actuarial Modelling I
Actuarial Modelling II
Financial Maths III
Algebra – cross-credit
Graph Theory (overload)
Sem 2
Contingencies (Capstone subject - 25 points)
Actuarial Statistics
Models for Insurance and Finance
Metric & Hilbert Spaces (overload)
WIN.
Do they offer any maths subjects in summer semester?
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Do they offer any maths subjects in summer semester?
Since maths subjects are not very popular after 1st year, they are generally not offered over the summer. The only maths subject I can think of that is offered over summer is Linear Algebra and I think that's mainly for engineers taking the Calculus 2 pathway through their respective undergraduate degree.
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Is it possible to stretch the DipMSc into your honours year, because in your honours year, you get 25 points of approved level-3 or level-4 subjects taught within or outside the Faculty of Business and Economics? Or must it be part of the normal 3 year BCom? If not, then it will definitely be an extra semester... unless I overload in all semesters in 2nd and 3rd year, which I don't think I want to do.
Also, how come in the course plans at (http://www.undergraduates.ms.unimelb.edu.au/course_advice/dip_math_sci/plans/commerce/actl.html), there are only 2 breadth subjects, as opposed to the 3 that are normally in the actuarial course plan?
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Also, how come in the course plans at (http://www.undergraduates.ms.unimelb.edu.au/course_advice/dip_math_sci/plans/commerce/actl.html), there are only 2 breadth subjects, as opposed to the 3 that are normally in the actuarial course plan?
It says:
The following are typical course plans for students in the Bachelor of Commerce with a major in Actuarial Studies...
"Typical", not exactly, so I presume there is a little bit of leeway.
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I'm assuming that one of the breadth subjects were substituted by a maths subject (I think one of them is allowed to be maths but the rest aren't but this isn't finalised yet), as opposed to something like "people who are doing a concurrent diploma are just randomly exempt from a breadth subject".
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Also, how come in the course plans at (http://www.undergraduates.ms.unimelb.edu.au/course_advice/dip_math_sci/plans/commerce/actl.html), there are only 2 breadth subjects, as opposed to the 3 that are normally in the actuarial course plan?
Those course plans appear to be outdated. Looking at the accelerated maths stream, your breadth subjects would be fulfilled by accel 1, accel 2, probability and statistics. The two blocks with "Breadth" in them can be replaced by any subject. I don't think cross-crediting is worth it, though. You just lose potential subjects. Better to count accel 1, accel 2 and two others as breadth, keeping the three light blue boxes only credited towards your BCom, imo.