ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: Khangfu on October 21, 2007, 02:40:58 pm
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Recently my school has recieved $3 million in funding
Heres an extract from my conversation with a teacher:
Me: My God the roof looks like its going to fall apart and kill us all
Teacher: That is why we are building a #$^&@*$&* arts center thats cost more then 3million dollars.
Me: Our library is a bad place to learn and study. it doesn't even have any good books to read. Only children books and Harry potter. God dam it i
expect the place to have a variety of textbooks too.
Teacher: Thats why we are building the arts center.
ME: Why don't you use the money to buy hard working students some practice exams to do for fun.
Teacher: THE 3 MILLION DOLLAR ARTS CENTER COMES FIRST
ME: I NEED NEWS PAPER TO READ AS A MEANS TO IMPROVE MY ENGLSIH
Teacher: WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY FOR MORE STAFF BUT DON'T WORRY WE ARE SPENDING 3 MILLION DOLLARS ON AN ARTS CENTER.
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Recently my school has recieved $3 million in funding
Heres an extract from my conversation with a teacher:
Me: My God the roof looks like its going to fall apart and kill us all
Teacher: That is why we are building a #$^&@*$&* arts center thats cost more then 3million dollars.
Me: Our library is a bad place to learn and study. it doesn't even have any good books to read. Only children books and Harry potter. God dam it i
expect the place to have a variety of textbooks too.
Teacher: Thats why we are building the arts center.
ME: Why don't you use the money to buy hard working students some practice exams to do for fun.
Teacher: THE 3 MILLION DOLLAR ARTS CENTER COMES FIRST
ME: I NEED NEWS PAPER TO READ AS A MEANS TO IMPROVE MY ENGLSIH
Teacher: WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY FOR MORE STAFF BUT DON'T WORRY WE ARE SPENDING 3 MILLION DOLLARS ON AN ARTS CENTER.
Lol funny :P
Our school spends most of their funding on improving the IT labs... should really use it to rebuild the school or perhaps renovate the school... oh well ill only be spending 2 more days at my school so i dont care. Im doing my exams at another school :)
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We just built a whizz-bang sports centre. We're a school that doesn't let its students in years 11 and 12 play sport.
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We just built a whizz-bang sports centre. We're a school that doesn't let its students in years 11 and 12 play sport.
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Thats the same with my school, our school doesnt allow year 11 and 12s to play sport :( so unfair i love sport lol
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By comparison, my school isn't that bad then, lol. Our library books are really old (seriously, one of my friends and I were going through some of the books and there was one there called The Future of Earth or something, which predicted that we'll be having intergalactic Olympics by 2020 and the moon will be the first venue) but there is always enough in the budget for practise exams and free newspapers for year 12s. Though currently, most of the funds are going into building renovations. Including a common room for next years year 12s with a coffee machine (no fair!).
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Our school built a YEAR 7 and 9 CENTRE!! :shock: how much study do year 7's and 9's do seriously...did they REALLY need one?? :?
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Our school built a YEAR 7 and 9 CENTRE!! :shock: how much study do year 7's and 9's do seriously...did they REALLY need one?? :?
HAHAHAHAHHA and yet the government keeps increasing funds to schools >.>. Some of the money is just going down the drain
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Our school built a YEAR 7 and 9 CENTRE!! :shock: how much study do year 7's and 9's do seriously...did they REALLY need one?? :?
HAHAHAHAHHA and yet the government keeps increasing funds to schools >.>. Some of the money is just going down the drain
Exactly!
Funding is not what schools need, yet the teachers unions will continue to lobby for more and more funding. Why? Because they know that they can get away with more and more luxuries without working for it.
The education system needs deregulation, that is what will spark schools into life, and make them fiscally responsible as well as responsible for providing the best service. How does this work? Simply through the magic of the free-market: natural healthy incentive (i.e: competition).
Bureaucracy and regulated industry is what has kept our education system behind. Since there is a lack of incentive to work at a better quality and provide a better education, schools are struggling to provide the services that kids need in today's economy. Our regulated system may have worked when it was first implemented, but now it is outdated, and instead of continually refining policies and trying to get it right, the government needs to let go and allow individuals to take care of their own matters (i.e: let the principals try to gauge for themselves): we can either all try one method and fail, or let everyone try their own method, until failure is not reached: this is when education will improve.
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my school has put projector sets in most rooms, built an 'xplore' centre (farking pointless building yr9s go into to do a group project for 4 weeks at a time - all classes cancelled), built a new double storey yr7 building with 4 computer labs and installed about 8 plasmas around the school showing the bulletin
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Funding is not what schools need, yet the teachers unions will continue to lobby for more and more funding. Why? Because they know that they can get away with more and more luxuries without working for it.
The education system needs deregulation, that is what will spark schools into life, and make them fiscally responsible as well as responsible for providing the best service. How does this work? Simply through the magic of the free-market: natural healthy incentive (i.e: competition).
Bureaucracy and regulated industry is what has kept our education system behind. Since there is a lack of incentive to work at a better quality and provide a better education, schools are struggling to provide the services that kids need in today's economy. Our regulated system may have worked when it was first implemented, but now it is outdated, and instead of continually refining policies and trying to get it right, the government needs to let go and allow individuals to take care of their own matters (i.e: let the principals try to gauge for themselves): we can either all try one method and fail, or let everyone try their own method, until failure is not reached: this is when education will improve.
Somebody is an economic rationalist!
I agree that most industries are better off from deregulation, but I don't think it's a particularly good idea for education, simply because the free market system wouldn't work to allocate resources efficiently when there are huge inequities between schools. I read last year after the "poaching" incident that Haileybury College has an advertising budget of $1million. Whilst I imagine my public school does have a budget for promotions, it would be modest at best. It so follows that schools that APPEAR as though they are offering a good education (through things like a "year 7 and 9 centre" and full page magazine advertisements) will attract smart students whilst schools that look crappy will get the students who don't really care about their education. The kids at the rich schools then get good marks and the school gains a good reputation and the cycle perpetuates. At least if all schools had equal funding, they would be able to attract equal proprtions of talented/apathetic students in the first place, and then the differences in results (which I think would be unlikely to be statistically significant) can be said due to differences in education quality (although not really, because even then socio-economic backgrounds will alter results a little too).
How would the market operate exactly? I don't know how true this is, because I saw it on Boston Public, but in America more funds are given to schools with higher standardised test scores. At face value, this would seem like a good plan because it means that teachers have better incentives to teach well, schools will aim to do their best and will be required to perform at a certain level or else they will risk closure from not enough people willing to go there due to poor funding/results. BUT, there are lots of problems associated with this. It means that classes are limited and that education is based on learning to colour in the right circle, rather than key life skills as well as those aspects of learning that are less tangible than test scores and ultimately fulfilling components of life. It also means that schools are not so much judged on the improvements their students make in academic ability, but whether or not they meet specific criteria. Education itself then becomes a burden rather than the rewarding process that it ought to be. In other words, I don't think education is completely measurable which makes it difficult for a potentially effective mode of education to prevail in a competitive market if it is placed on an unequal setting.
Persoanlly, I like John Marsden's mode of education with his Candlebark school as well as some aspects of Steiner schools. I think people forget (particularly in VCE) that learning isn't by nature a competition, it's about personal growth. And while the goal is to get into tertiary study or a job afterwards, there's really more to life - otherwise you could easily conclude that P-12 education is by and large a waste of time.
Anyway, I'm getting off track. I agree that currently the education system could use some improvements, but I don't know if free markets are really the way.
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Well, I'd question whether "poaching" is a bad thing anyway. I don't agree with governments rewarding top performing schools, I agree with schools performing well, hence more parents want their kids to go there. In a controlled market, there will be tendencies to underperform. Of course, there will be exceptions, where there is a team of highly motivated staff that are willing to give a good effort, like Glen Waverly Secondary College, for example. However, we have to look at the lower end of the scale: underperformers like Pakenham H.S. I believe that competition is what will boost education in these areas. Of course, there will still be worse schools, and an "education gap" similar to a "poverty gap" but I'd argue that this is what is an efficient allocation of resources: the services provide for the customer.
I will expand on this point: if you send a poorly educated (I'll argue this is because of not only previous education, but also family influence, cultural upbringing, etc.) kid into a highly competitive private school with strong academic discipline, he/she will most likely not receive the benefit. It is a consumer/supplier mismatch, an inefficiency. However, if you argue that equality must be achieved, then we must concede high quality education for some in exchange mediocrity for all.
The reason why there are the exaggerated inequalities involved with 'liberalised' education is exactly because of the 'moderate' or 'centrist' approach to education. When government gets involved, adverse externalities are created, such as the negative externality involved with teachers cheating with their students. I do not see this happening at all if schools are left alone.
EDIT: The whole thing about "measuring" education is a problem, and it is something that definitely should not be decided by the government. Parents should make that decision for themselves. They may want to foster a love of music and sport rather than just plain academics, and they may send their kid to a school that encourages these activities instead. It's when governments that get in the way, problems begin. That's just my observation.
Another edit: I want to address the issue of equal opportunities, which my second argument seems to neglect. I believe that there is a way out for those who started off on unequal footing, through government loans or private loans (depends how pure of a libertarian you are here). Either that, or some schools may offer scholarships to the disadvantaged because there are benefits of having the prestige of "goodwill" and "kindness" involved. If there is truly potential to be unlocked within children born in low socio-economic circumstances, it will be granted by the free-market.
Also, those types of education you mentioned near the end would be allowed in a free-market society, they are the types of schools that wouldn't be allowed in a "one-size fits all" government controlled education system.
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I agree that most industries are better off from deregulation, but I don't think it's a particularly good idea for education, simply because the free market system wouldn't work to allocate resources efficiently when there are huge inequities between schools. I read last year after the "poaching" incident that Haileybury College has an advertising budget of $1million. Whilst I imagine my public school does have a budget for promotions, it would be modest at best. It so follows that schools that APPEAR as though they are offering a good education (through things like a "year 7 and 9 centre" and full page magazine advertisements) will attract smart students whilst schools that look crappy will get the students who don't really care about their education. The kids at the rich schools then get good marks and the school gains a good reputation and the cycle perpetuates. At least if all schools had equal funding, they would be able to attract equal proprtions of talented/apathetic students in the first place, and then the differences in results (which I think would be unlikely to be statistically significant) can be said due to differences in education quality (although not really, because even then socio-economic backgrounds will alter results a little too).
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Gonna have to disagree with you there. The VCE course is not that hard( its the msitakes you do that count, not the amount for answers you get right, thats my opinion anyway). The reason why good schools have higher performing students is because the environment is good. My school = gangstaville. Study, and your laughed at, very hard for a little kid to overcome eper pressure >.> . The older year levels will influence young year levels and a chain reaction occers, so i consider my school gone.
I can tell you this is true, the only reason i decided to study this year ( and thank god i did) was because i made some friends from good schools who actually encourage studying. You are who your friends are i geuss. Thats why i think more funding to crappy schools WILL NOT WORK.
I'm very pessimestic about improving the situation at my school so i gave up. I told them they can either focus on those who wants to learn or those who make up the average study score. They chose the latter, they tried to cling onto thier median study score of 28. If however they wre thrown into a caged up all in deathmatch with lets say melbourne high(they have such a sweet revision package T.T) they would definitely pull up thier socks and do the right thing such as increase teachers wage and make them work harder,give students more practice exams, give whatever rescourses that would help( I KNOW THEY HAVE THE MONEY> IF YOU HAVE 3MILLION DOLLARS FOR AN ARTS CENTER YOU GOT MONEY FOR ANYTHING), and of course try to change whos coming in and out of the school >.> (less gangsters and people selling me ciggis would be nice). All my school is after now seems to be the government funding the gansters give >.>
Btw i Don't agree with people describing the Hailey incident as poaching. They merely gave students and teachers an offer. Which of course they took, they did not force anyone. Hell if someone were to give mea ticket out of this hell hole i wouldn't mind taking it.
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what school do you go to Khangfu?
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Nothing. It keeps it, because The Knox School is purely a money making exercise.
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Caroline CHisholmd Catholic College. Its in Braybook, listed as one of the msot disadvatanged area in Victoria >.>. All the schools around me is the same XD
EDIT: WOOT TOMORROW I WILL CUT ALL CONNECTIONS WITH MY SCHOOL I AM SO HAPPY :D
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Caroline CHisholmd Catholic College. Its in Braybook, listed as one of the msot disadvatanged area in Victoria >.>. All the schools around me is the same XD
EDIT: WOOT TOMORROW I WILL CUT ALL CONNECTIONS WITH MY SCHOOL I AM SO HAPPY :D
where?
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Caroline CHisholmd Catholic College. Its in Braybook, listed as one of the msot disadvatanged area in Victoria >.>. All the schools around me is the same XD
EDIT: WOOT TOMORROW I WILL CUT ALL CONNECTIONS WITH MY SCHOOL I AM SO HAPPY :D
Hey, is that otherwise known as 4C?
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yes that shithole si also know as 4c
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you sound like you love your school
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Of course i loove the place. I just can't live without it. :D
Funny thing is most of the likely dux candidates plan on not coming to the school during the open year ceremoney :D. Imagine 6 of the top 20 not being dere :D:D:D:D:D:D
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I know someone who moved from 4C to MHS because the subject selection at 4C was too limited for him.
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I know someone who moved from 4C to MHS because the subject selection at 4C was too limited for him.
I would have moved even if MHS subject selection was limited >.>
Edit: woot im going to my graduation. After this i won't have to talk about my secondary school anymore :D
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Hey, I heard a car crashed into 4C, LOL
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Hey, I heard a car crashed into 4C, LOL
Don't recall that ever happening
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Its in Braybook, listed as one of the msot disadvatanged area in Victoria
Yeah, sunshine/braybrook has its problems, but it's a fine place to live as long as you don't cause trouble.
http://www.theage.com.au/text/articles/2007/10/19/1192301045719.html
http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/some-kind-of-beatup/2007/02/10/1170524341435.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/fewer-jobs-in-sunshine/2007/10/11/1191696089209.html
Even in the suburbs of sunshine or broadmeadows there are opportunities. Earlier this month, The late John Ilhan, founder of "Crazy John", spoke to the Herald Sun about his affection for Broadmeadows, saying the suburb helped create his entrepreneurial drive.
His parents worked shifts at the local Ford factory and instilled in him the importance of hard work, he said.
''The blue light discos at the town hall taught me people skills; watching shopkeepers operate at the Broadmeadows shopping plaza taught me how to run a small business; and the train from Broadmeadows station to the Moonee Valley trots taught me that you need to take risks and have a gamble to be successful,'' he said.
''These are three very important aspects to my business success and illustrate the fact that everything you need to learn in life is closer than you think.''
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22634211-661,00.html
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I lived in Sunshine for many years of my chilhood. I went to glengala + sunshine heights.
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sunshine heights.
me too!
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Do you remember that house beside sunshine heights where some guy killed his wife using a hammer? I remember in sunshine heights there used to be a section for disabled students...?
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Do you remember that house beside sunshine heights where some guy killed his wife using a hammer? I remember in sunshine heights there used to be a section for disabled students...?
Someone killed their wife using a hammer ?! :shock:
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Let me remind you, this is in SUNSHINE
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Let me remind you, this is in SUNSHINE
I know but still no matter where it happened its still terrible...
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Must've been 1995 when it happened, because I was around 5.