ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Universities - Victoria => University of Melbourne => Topic started by: vexx on November 07, 2010, 12:10:48 am
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Hi,
So i might be doing biomedicine next year, but this year i really didn't like methods.. So will i like calculus? if so, why? or why not?
Are they really similar? I know it's like spesh, but i never did spesh.. just wondering what i'm in for since i'm a little afraid i'll hate it like i hate methods..
i didn't like methods because it was boring, constantly repeating the same thing, and just didn't find anything interesting.. i find methods fairly simple, haven't really done much the entire year as there nothing really don't understand, i worked quite well last year though making this year more of a breeze (pretty much just an extension).. its just i hate the repetitive nature of it, and everything we do is so boringgg and pointless.. it also can be annoying with questions on stuff i know the concepts of, but just can't do because they try and trick me D:
Yep those who have done it, let me know!
Thanksss
Vexx
edit, what about physics for biomedicine, haven't really done physics since back in the day of year 10, what sort of person likes this sort of physics? it seems quite interesting, but not sure as i only know the outline!
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A good idea would probably be to visit a library and borrow the textbook that you may end up using for the physics component of the course. Do a bit of reading, see if you like it.
As for your question, will you like physics? Well, do you like biology? From personal experience those who like biology tend to dislike physics (and vice versa). In fact as anecdotal evidence, my physics teacher hates biology and my biology teacher dislikes physics (at least in comparison to the other sciences) and most of the students from my school are like this. Though not sure if that's just a phenomena in my school, anyone observed similar trends?
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Well personally calculus bores me because of it's repetitive nature and I doubt it'd be any fun for you since you'd be probably using calculus as an applicable tool, so I would say that you'd be doing alot of repetitive work which sounds like it might bore you.
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If you didn't like methods then I don't see you enjoying calculus. Regardless of how repetitive it is (I didn't find it that repetitive), if you don't enjoy maths then it's not going to be the highlight of semester 1. I suppose the upside is that the assessment is simple, there aren't any tricks or confusing questions. The calc1 exam I sat last year is attached, you can have a look and see for yourself.
And Physics for Biomedicine...it's not the same as maths, there's a lot more conceptual work and I enjoyed it more/found it easier to do well in. A lot of it is VCE level so you won't find it too difficult for not having done physics before
Though not sure if that's just a phenomena in my school, anyone observed similar trends?
All "real" science teachers hate biology, so the biology teachers return the favour
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umm can someone tell me why that exam which Russ attached is pretty much Specialist maths stuff that would take well and truly under 3 hours to do???
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umm can someone tell me why that exam which Russ attached is pretty much Specialist maths stuff that would take well and truly under 3 hours to do???
LOL yeah it is pretty much spesh stuff, i feel like i can do almost all the q's. Anyone who's doing spesh next year should attempt it as part of their revision..
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Because if you did spesh, you're not allowed to do Calculus 1. You have to do Calc2 or Linear Algebra.
You also don't get a calculator, which makes it a little harder I guess.
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Thanks for replies, looked at that exam for calc and it seemed pretty straight forward which is good, hopefully i wont mind it as much then..
Hopefully i can also like physics since i like biology, aww i don't want to dislike another subject hehe.
With physics; whats a good book to read that will introduce me to these topics to see if i may like it or not?
studytemple has heaps of physics books, so i may just use that (they dont have the prescribed book 'college physics')
is there a large biology component to physics for biomedicine? when you say its not the 'same' as maths, what do you mean Russ, how much maths is involved - similar to the amount in chemistry or more?
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umm can someone tell me why that exam which Russ attached is pretty much Specialist maths stuff that would take well and truly under 3 hours to do???
Not sure if this goes for all uni courses, but my exams have always had pretty much no time pressure. We're given 3 hours to do 100 multiple choice questions each exam. Uni's aren't as strict as VCAA on imposing time limits and such to develop a nice bell curve. They just want to know how much you actually know.
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Well since I'm posting exams, here's my physics one from last year to look at. You can see that it's a lot more than just "calculate X", there are a lot of "explain your answer" etc., where you have to demonstrate a conceptual understanding.
If you want a textbook for an introduction...pick anything. I didn't use the College Physics textbook once (I didn't buy it, don't ever buy textbooks before semester starts), the course content is pretty generic to all physics courses. Most of the information is contained in the lecture slides you're given, the only reason to consult the textbook is if the explanations don't make sense to you.
There's no biology in the subject, you won't have to know anything about cells or tissues etc. but the content is related to human function. So when you do fluid mechanics, it's discussed with examples from blood pressure, capillary flow etc. The maths is there but yeah, it's more like chemistry where it's assumed and you only use it to manipulate your equations etc.
Not sure if this goes for all uni courses, but my exams have always had pretty much no time pressure. We're given 3 hours to do 100 multiple choice questions each exam. Uni's aren't as strict as VCAA on imposing time limits and such to develop a nice bell curve. They just want to know how much you actually know.
This is also a big factor, most of my exams have been paced so that if you work steadily you'll finish it all in the time limit. The concept of time pressure and planning your reading time etc. isn't really an issue (the only times I've been racing the clock is when I go overboard on a single question and then don't have much time left to consider the other questions)
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There's no biology in the subject, you won't have to know anything about cells or tissues etc. but the content is related to human function. So when you do fluid mechanics, it's discussed with examples from blood pressure, capillary flow etc. The maths is there but yeah, it's more like chemistry where it's assumed and you only use it to manipulate your equations etc.
Hmm, I personally don't like physics much but haemodynamics was something I actually enjoyed. I'm sure you'll be fine with it too vexx since yeh, it's taught with around a biological framework rather than a theoretical 'block and inclined planes' manner. And really, since you're intending to get into Med eventually anyway, it's something that you'd have to know in Med regardless of whether you enjoy it or not. I've heard bad stories of doctors screwing up due to a misunderstanding of haemodynamics >__> Can't say I've encountered much use for calculus yet though (I can't actually remember how to differentiate anymore o_o), so if you don't like it, just try and get through it because it's probably not all that useful. It's more of a specialty field for applying it to research. There's heaps of statistics and probability in Med though so some people can find that quite dry...
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Oh don't worry, there's plenty of block/inclined plane stuff :P
The first year subjects where you think "how does that apply"...you'll see the relevance later because they keep popping up as important points in other subjects. Don't worry about it, they're really not that bad (and you'll probably still be on the THIS IS UNI high and want to study it)
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oh awesome thanks guys, i guess i'll look forward to something a bit different (if i end up doing biomed) :)
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Oh don't worry, there's plenty of block/inclined plane stuff :P
The first year subjects where you think "how does that apply"...you'll see the relevance later because they keep popping up as important points in other subjects. Don't worry about it, they're really not that bad (and you'll probably still be on the THIS IS UNI high and want to study it)
Ah damn. You made it sound like it was all applied :P Well thing in uni is that the course isn't clear as to to boundaries to which you have to study something unlike VCE. So if something isn't challenging enough, just read further and get a more complex grasp of the material.
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^uni is going to be awesomeeeee.
ok so i have an ebook 'Physics for Scientists and Engineers' by Knight, which has the same concepts as the ones we learn (i think).. so will flick through it over the holidays, quantum physics sounds fascinating. i've read about string theory before in the past which was really interesting, but i doubt i'd be studying dimensions (asides from 1 and 2) and the like at uni.. does anyone on these forums actually study this? like the real physics people?
=getting ahead of myself
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^uni is going to be awesomeeeee.
ok so i have an ebook 'Physics for Scientists and Engineers' by Knight, which has the same concepts as the ones we learn (i think).. so will flick through it over the holidays, quantum physics sounds fascinating. i've read about string theory before in the past which was really interesting, but i doubt i'd be studying dimensions (asides from 1 and 2) and the like at uni.. does anyone on these forums actually study this? like the real physics people?
=getting ahead of myself
yayy biomed. :)
my new goal is MD at UoM in 2014. It is going to be fkn epic man!!!
I love that title, and the way it has 'doctor' in it haha. But seriously, UoM just sounds good.
At least if you go overseas, they will know about UoM :D
And you will be fine with physics and calculus vexx... it will actually be alright at uni, unlike in vce.
if I could do them, anyone can haha.
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If you don't want to take math/physics you could always do melbourne Bsc much more freedom....
I'm still deciding between biomed or bsc
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ok so i have an ebook 'Physics for Scientists and Engineers' by Knight, which has the same concepts as the ones we learn (i think).. so will flick through it over the holidays
You don't do physics till semester 2, spend your summer holidays relaxing (actually spend them learning organic chemistry so you don't suicide in 1st semester)
quantum physics sounds fascinating. i've read about string theory before in the past which was really interesting, but i doubt i'd be studying dimensions (asides from 1 and 2) and the like at uni.. does anyone on these forums actually study this? like the real physics people?
It comes up right at the start of chemistry in wave functions of electrons but you won't study it at all. Yeah there are a few people I've seen on the forums doing physics majors and studying this stuff
If you don't want to take math/physics you could always do melbourne Bsc much more freedom....
Or this (but pick your major at the end of 1st year otherwise you're screwed for the prereqs)
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^yeah of course im going to be relaxing.
i didn't mean study it, and read it all doing qs or anything haha, i meant just flick through and see the kind of topics i'll be learning, to see if i can be bothered doing it next year over science.. i need to decide this over the holidays if i don't get into med!
nahh i skip chemistry in biomed/science since i've already done all that stuff this year (uni chem)
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I'm actually studying for my physics for biomed exam on Thursday, so I guess I can help you out, haha. The pace is pretty quick, and there's apparently not too much difference between the content in this and the subject for people who did VCE physics. Things we covered were mechanics, thermal physics, fluid dynamics, electromagnetism, a little bit of quantum and radioactivity. Often you'll cover the concepts and then see how they're applied in terms of medicine, which is nice. They also try to stick demos into lots of the lectures. Pracs are really easy, although also pretty boring.
Calc at uni is still fairly different to maths in VCE. Although you might apply the same concepts repeatedly, in calc 2 at least you're not expected to do anywhere near as many exercises, so I guess it feels a bit less repetitive. Calc is also really well organised and the assessment is quite fair, no tricks like in VCE.
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I'm actually studying for my physics for biomed exam on Thursday, so I guess I can help you out, haha. The pace is pretty quick, and there's apparently not too much difference between the content in this and the subject for people who did VCE physics. Things we covered were mechanics, thermal physics, fluid dynamics, electromagnetism, a little bit of quantum and radioactivity. Often you'll cover the concepts and then see how they're applied in terms of medicine, which is nice. They also try to stick demos into lots of the lectures. Pracs are really easy, although also pretty boring.
Calc at uni is still fairly different to maths in VCE. Although you might apply the same concepts repeatedly, in calc 2 at least you're not expected to do anywhere near as many exercises, so I guess it feels a bit less repetitive. Calc is also really well organised and the assessment is quite fair, no tricks like in VCE.
That sounds pretty cool :D
Looking forward to it.
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I'm actually studying for my physics for biomed exam on Thursday, so I guess I can help you out, haha. The pace is pretty quick, and there's apparently not too much difference between the content in this and the subject for people who did VCE physics. Things we covered were mechanics, thermal physics, fluid dynamics, electromagnetism, a little bit of quantum and radioactivity. Often you'll cover the concepts and then see how they're applied in terms of medicine, which is nice. They also try to stick demos into lots of the lectures. Pracs are really easy, although also pretty boring.
Calc at uni is still fairly different to maths in VCE. Although you might apply the same concepts repeatedly, in calc 2 at least you're not expected to do anywhere near as many exercises, so I guess it feels a bit less repetitive. Calc is also really well organised and the assessment is quite fair, no tricks like in VCE.
That sounds pretty cool :D
Looking forward to it.
oh awesome, thanks for that!
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It sounds like biomed 2011 will be a vn fest.
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The ATAR couldn't possibly go up again could it?
Or at least not by a lot?
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I would hope not. Having an extremely high ATAR score is pretty much the opposite of why the course was created.
I personally thought that 95 was appropriate, but then it jumped dramatically to 98. I doubt it's feasible for it to go up again, all things considered.
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With the exam that Russ posted, whilst it may seem easy to complete, uni maths exams are notorious for making it look easy during reading time but when you go to attempt the questions, you find yourself looking for a gun. Or that's what I've found from experience anyway.
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With the exam that Russ posted, whilst it may seem easy to complete, uni maths exams are notorious for making it look easy during reading time but when you go to attempt the questions, you find yourself looking for a gun. Or that's what I've found from experience anyway.
Like the eng maths exam i just sat. Looked fine during reading time, but once you start writing...
Question 1: FFFFFUUUUUUUUU
Question 2: FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
Question 3: FFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
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With the exam that Russ posted, whilst it may seem easy to complete, uni maths exams are notorious for making it look easy during reading time but when you go to attempt the questions, you find yourself looking for a gun. Or that's what I've found from experience anyway.
Like the eng maths exam i just sat. Looked fine during reading time, but once you start writing...
Question 1: FFFFFUUUUUUUUU
Question 2: FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
Question 3: FFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
And my Calc 2 exam. Hi 5. Looked nice during reading time - all hell breaks lose when you start writing.
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With the exam that Russ posted, whilst it may seem easy to complete, uni maths exams are notorious for making it look easy during reading time but when you go to attempt the questions, you find yourself looking for a gun. Or that's what I've found from experience anyway.
They ask really simple questions. None of this highly specific VCAA stuff with only one accepted answer :(
What is a cell? (10 marks)
*rage*
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^uni is going to be awesomeeeee.
ok so i have an ebook 'Physics for Scientists and Engineers' by Knight, which has the same concepts as the ones we learn (i think).. so will flick through it over the holidays, quantum physics sounds fascinating. i've read about string theory before in the past which was really interesting, but i doubt i'd be studying dimensions (asides from 1 and 2) and the like at uni.. does anyone on these forums actually study this? like the real physics people?
=getting ahead of myself
Knight's book is generally the most popular undergraduate physics textbook, it's pretty good. It's equivalent to Stewarts Calculus, an undergraduate (and probably one of the best) calculus textbook.
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^uni is going to be awesomeeeee.
ok so i have an ebook 'Physics for Scientists and Engineers' by Knight, which has the same concepts as the ones we learn (i think).. so will flick through it over the holidays, quantum physics sounds fascinating. i've read about string theory before in the past which was really interesting, but i doubt i'd be studying dimensions (asides from 1 and 2) and the like at uni.. does anyone on these forums actually study this? like the real physics people?
=getting ahead of myself
Knight's book is generally the most popular undergraduate physics textbook, it's pretty good. It's equivalent to Stewarts Calculus, an undergraduate (and probably one of the best) calculus textbook.
ahh okay cool, well i have an ebook from studytemple so that should be okay and i'll flick through it to see what is being taught quite soon. i'll take note of that calculus book then if i need a good reference for uni when doing calculus! cheers.
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Get the subject reader over a textbook
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Get the subject reader over a textbook
subject reader?
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Published by the uni, it's a collection of all the material you'll need for the course. For calc1, it was all the lecture slides and sets of problem questions.
I never even opened the textbook for calculus
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Published by the uni, it's a collection of all the material you'll need for the course. For calc1, it was all the lecture slides and sets of problem questions.
I never even opened the textbook for calculus
oh i see, so its the same for physics? how much are they, sounds awesome. i dont think i'll be buying the textbooks considering i never used my chem one this year anyway.. (ill find ebooks rather to aid)
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They're usually...$20? Can't remember exactly, most science subjects don't have them because there's not much extra information.
Just print your lecture notes out before lectures and you're fine
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Physics doesn't have them. Maths subjects do, but they're incomplete. You have to attend every lecture and copy it all down.
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^uni is going to be awesomeeeee.
ok so i have an ebook 'Physics for Scientists and Engineers' by Knight, which has the same concepts as the ones we learn (i think).. so will flick through it over the holidays, quantum physics sounds fascinating. i've read about string theory before in the past which was really interesting, but i doubt i'd be studying dimensions (asides from 1 and 2) and the like at uni.. does anyone on these forums actually study this? like the real physics people?
=getting ahead of myself
Knight's book is generally the most popular undergraduate physics textbook, it's pretty good. It's equivalent to Stewarts Calculus, an undergraduate (and probably one of the best) calculus textbook.
I've read a lot of Knight's book in prep for UMEP Physics, I shall now read this Stewart book, in prep of further. Thank you ;)
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Calc 2 (and from what I've heard, Calc 1) is comparatively easy, but if you hate methods, you might find it pretty dull. That said, it's not that repetitious (compared to methods with about 50 questions for each topic). Basically, the whole subject is being taught a concept then about 5 different variations of that concept, illustrated by doing example questions. You do the same 5 questions in the tute and in a green book they give you (you really don't need to buy the textbook btw). The exam is IDENTICAL to the past exams and the questions are IDENTICAL to the example ones you've now done 3 times. There is a little bit on application, but it is mostly mathsy. I would say there is about as much level of "application" as methods. However, there are no complex worded questions (just enough to give you the numbers.) Eg. A spring is set up with spring constant ___ and a weight of ____ attached. If the coefficient of damping is ____ and etc. etc..
Also no Tasmania Jones-esque scenarios. It's all very straight down the line.
In Physics, you do mostly applications to the humans. It is very interesting, in my opinion (I found the content for Life Sciences very interesting, and it is mostly overlapping with Biomed Physics). So you won't really do Quantum. We did Fluids, Thermal physics, Electrostatics and Circuits, Magnetism and Radiation. I know they also did kinematics in Biomed Physics.
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^ thanks for the informative post.
that sounds so fine with calculus 1 then! doesn't sound too difficult to get HD for if you are repeating the same questions like that ahaha yay.
i actually am quite excited for physics now, it'll be good to do something completely different :) despite your other post saying that it wasn't very good - im sure its not tooo bad !!! (hopefully..) so yeah let us know how you all go with it and how difficult it really was to do well :)
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Yeah vexx, physics is great.
I just had a horrible teacher this year, and unfortunately VCE Physics is a bit of a joke, but still, it is a fascinating subject, and one which is really relevant to the world around us.
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To be honest, I hated physics this year. Nothing particularly interesting and every lecture followed the same format:
1. "Here's a new concept. It's called ____. It's denoted by the symbol ___ and measured in ____."
2. "Here are a dozen equations relating it to each previous concept you've learnt."
3. Rinse and repeat.
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To be honest, I hated physics this year. Nothing particularly interesting and every lecture followed the same format:
1. "Here's a new concept. It's called ____. It's denoted by the symbol ___ and measured in ____."
2. "Here are a dozen equations relating it to each previous concept you've learnt."
3. Rinse and repeat.
Wow. That pretty much sums up my dislike for Year 10 Physics.
Here's a new concept. It's called Newton's 2nd law. It's formula is F = ma where F is measured in Newtons, m in kilograms and a in metres/second2. From this you can also derive the formula a = F/m and m = F/a . Now go practise 100 questions :)
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Yeah like i, and many others have said, vce physics is pretty crap. But if you try to extend yourself a bit beyond the course then itbecomes a lot more interesting, and actually a fair bit easier.
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Yeah like i, and many others have said, vce physics is pretty crap. But if you try to extend yourself a bit beyond the course then itbecomes a lot more interesting, and actually a fair bit easier.
wats more mathier vce chemistry or vce physics? O:
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chem
physics is pretty much just a matter of subbing numbers into a derived equation to find the missing variable.
With chem their is a bit more application and definitely more thought required
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Really, chem is more mathsy? I always thought/assumed physics was! oh thats good then ha but hopefully uni physics is far better than VCE :)
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Really, chem is more mathsy? I always thought/assumed physics was! oh thats good then ha but hopefully uni physics is far better than VCE :)
Physics at VCE level is more conceptual than "mathsy" apparently, although higher-level physics at uni definitely involves a considerable amount of maths.
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Introductory physics at uni is predominantly conceptual. Even higher level physics is extremely conceptual, it just also has a lot of calculation involved
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Introductory physics at uni is predominantly conceptual. Even higher level physics is extremely conceptual, it just also has a lot of calculation involved
How about this thing at uni called "Mathematical Physics"?
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i think we should get /0 in this, he's doing theoretical physics :D
but anyway from the limited physics knowledge i have, mathematics conceptualizes the ideas in physics, alot of the concepts in physics are explained by mathematics.
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Introductory physics at uni is predominantly conceptual. Even higher level physics is extremely conceptual, it just also has a lot of calculation involved
How about this thing at uni called "Mathematical Physics"?
It's a major. What's your point? Physics is underpinned by mathematics but it's still concept based.
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but anyway from the limited physics knowledge i have, mathematics conceptualizes the ideas in physics, alot of the concepts in physics are explained by mathematics.
Yeah :)
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For physics, it's the same as saying: "I hate English. Will I hate history?" Sure, in an english speaking country, you need english to be able to explain your historical ideas, but the real HISTORY is the ideas, not how you express them. Of course, if you can't express an idea, then it becomes a problem... but to be good at history you don't have to be brilliant at English. It's the same for methods and physics.
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agreed.
I would say the harder part of physics is putting together the question into an equation that you then have to solve (using the physics concepts and principles). In comparison to methods where it's more like, "this equation approximates this tidal motion...now solve."