ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => VCE Mathematics => VCE Mathematics/Science/Technology => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE Mathematical Methods CAS => Topic started by: davidle_10 on November 09, 2010, 09:57:54 pm
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Since this year was a hard year, do you guys think the scaling will be higher than previous years?
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I don't think hard exams affect scaling, don't quote me on this though.
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last years was 6, i have a feeling itll drop to 4 or 5
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i hope it is more this year X.X
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i hope it is more this year X.X
Why do you hope it's more this year if yours was scaled last year? :S
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=/ it means spesh gets scaled more? I dunno X.X i am confused at how spesh scales
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Why would the scaling drop? :(
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=X VCAA is too complicated for me to understand lol
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Why would the scaling drop? :(
The number of people doing Maths Methods has at least doubled... This is the first year Maths Methods CAS completely replaced Maths Methods. So there is more competition. Scaling is most likely going to drop. But there is still a chance that it will increase by a single point. You can't make an accurate guess.
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I don't think it will drop... most likely stay the same or go up by 1 or 2 more....
Why would the scaling drop? :(
The number of people doing Maths Methods has at least doubled... This is the first year Maths Methods CAS completely replaced Maths Methods. So there is more competition. Scaling is most likely going to drop. But there is still a chance that it will increase by a single point. You can't make an accurate guess.
Saying that the size has doubled doesnt change it I think because scaling works off what you get in your other subjects. So The same amount of low scoring people and high scoring people have joined methods cas so i dont think it will lower.... if that makes sense
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VCAA IS AN UNPREDICTABLE BITCH
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Has scaling ever actually increased from one year to the next? idk
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How does scaling actually work anyway?
Just say methods goes up 6 this year and methods doesn't go over 50. Does that mean getting a 50 and getting a 44 are both the same thing?
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No at best it scales up by 6, but as you go higher it will decrease (34 goes to 40, 39 goes to 44.2)
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It's like a -ve exponential scaling.
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It's like a -ve exponential scaling.
More like a bell curve since it happens to both sides of 30 :p
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Since this is VN, doesn't really apply does it ::)
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I don't think it will drop... most likely stay the same or go up by 1 or 2 more....
Why would the scaling drop? :(
The number of people doing Maths Methods has at least doubled... This is the first year Maths Methods CAS completely replaced Maths Methods. So there is more competition. Scaling is most likely going to drop. But there is still a chance that it will increase by a single point. You can't make an accurate guess.
Saying that the size has doubled doesnt change it I think because scaling works off what you get in your other subjects. So The same amount of low scoring people and high scoring people have joined methods cas so i dont think it will lower.... if that makes sense
Scaling is the method of making each subject fair compared to others. Easy subjects are scaled down. But harder subjects are scaled up. Lets assume that every subject except Maths Method is excastly the same as last year (in terms of number of people and scores). Now lets say that the Maths Method's mean has increased due increased competition, then the scaling for Maths Methods will fall.
The exam doesn't determine the scaling. Its the mean of the subject compared to other subjects. I'm not saying that it won't go up, but I am saying that it can't be accurately determined due to many changes.
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I don't think it will drop... most likely stay the same or go up by 1 or 2 more....
Why would the scaling drop? :(
The number of people doing Maths Methods has at least doubled... This is the first year Maths Methods CAS completely replaced Maths Methods. So there is more competition. Scaling is most likely going to drop. But there is still a chance that it will increase by a single point. You can't make an accurate guess.
Saying that the size has doubled doesnt change it I think because scaling works off what you get in your other subjects. So The same amount of low scoring people and high scoring people have joined methods cas so i dont think it will lower.... if that makes sense
Scaling is the method of making each subject fair compared to others. Easy subjects are scaled down. But harder subjects are scaled up. Lets assume that every subject except Maths Method is excastly the same as last year (in terms of number of people and scores). Now lets say that the Maths Method's mean has increased due increased competition, then the scaling for Maths Methods will fall.
The exam doesn't determine the scaling. Its the mean of the subject compared to other subjects. I'm not saying that it won't go up, but I am saying that it can't be accurately determined due to many changes.
I dont think there is increased competition because, yes more 'smart' people joined methods cas but so did more 'not-smart' people as well. So i think it would stay the same....
Its not like everyone who would have done normal methods were complete geniouses in which competition would rise its just as if we got the methods cas cohort and multipied it by 2....
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The study score calculator is a computer program. The old, crazy man who created it is long gone.
The VCAA simply follow his ways of using said computer. No one understands it, but it apparently works.
Besides, VTAC do the scaling.
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How scaling works and why is often misunderstood. Let me see if I can help explain a few things about how it works.
1. A hard exam has no impact on scaling. The raw study score (ie pre scaling) is a ranking. A hard exam impacts everybody's ability to get a high exam mark, but it doesn't make it any harder to achieve any given ranking (raw study score).
2. Scaling up (or down) is meant to compensate for the fact that it is relatively more (or less) difficult to achieve a given ranking in a study where the cohort undertaking that subject is more (or less) intelligent than it is for other subjects. It is nothing to do with the difficulty of the subject or of the exam.
3. The impact on scaling of all Maths Methods students doing the CAS version this year for the first time is likely to be minimal. The fact that the cohort this year is different (ie is a combined pool of all the previous CAS and non CAS) could in theory result in a different scaling factor being applied. This would occur if the combined cohort was more or less intelligent than the old CAS cohort. However, the scaling report for 2009 shows that the scaling for both CAS and non CAS was identical. This would indicate that there is very little difference in the cohorts and so the combined cohort this year would not be likely to warrant a different scaling factor.
4. My personal view is that I am very sceptical of the accuracy of scaling and the ability of VTAC to measure what is the "right" scaling factor to apply. I say this because I find it very hard to believe how little the scaling factors applied to each subject differ from year to year. I would expect that the fact that each year a completely different group of students undertakes each subject would cause significant variation in the scaling factor for each subject from year to year. Is it really likely that the relative intelligence of students taking such diverse subjects as psychology, maths, outdoor ed, art, dance, languages, accounting etc etc is so consistent from year to year ? Every year, bus management gets scaled down by the same amount, further maths goes down by the same amount, and so on. Seems very unlikely that this is the result of an accurate measure of the relative intelligence of each subject's cohort, and the result is almost identical each year. What it says to me is that they haven't really got much of a handle on it at all, and they just apply the same factor they have in the past !!
I guess the beauty of it is that no-one knows if they are being dudded or whether they are benefitting!!
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Right ... why has spesh scaling decreased from 55 to 52 over the past three years? Are we getting dumber - or is VTAC screwing us over?
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Good question, Chavi.
The scaling for the 3 maths subjects is a bit different to the non maths subjects, as I understand it. The maths subjects have a comparison done between the subject scores (rankings) achieved by students taking more than one maths subject eg of all the students doing spesh and methods, how did their scores (rankings) differ "on average" (?for want of a more precise term)? This gives a measure of the relative difficulty of achieving rankings in the 2 subjects. Similarly with Further.
With non maths subjects this specific comparison of like subjects is not so readily available and so somehow they try to measure each subject's cohort against the whole population of students.
Why the scale up factor for Spesh has declined is an interesting issue. Not sure why - I haven't read any reasons offered by anyone in the know. Can only speculate. Maybe an increasing number of the really smart students are forgoing Spesh for Methods and even Further.
This reduced scale up of Spesh contradicts my last point about scaling being dodgy because they can't measure it and just do the same each year. It is however one of the very few examples of where scaling changes from year to year, and, as I say, it is probably one of the few subjects where they can do a more specific measure, at least against other maths subjects (but not necessarily against the non maths subjects).