ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Technical Score Discussion => Topic started by: Menang on November 09, 2010, 11:24:46 pm
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I've noticed a few people mention their class ranking (eg, I'm #1 in my school's cohort etc) when asking for study score predictions.
I didn't know your class rank affected the scaling! So, my question is this: Does class rank affect scaling and if it does, how?
And what happens if I'm in a really, really smart class? Do I get scaled down because my rank isn't as good?
*confused*
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I'd also like to know this, so would be nice to have some replies. (:
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Significance of class ranking is in the moderation of your SAC score.
The SAC score you obtained from your school will be "moderated" (ie moved up or down) as a result of the way you cohort (your school's students who take that subject) scores in the external exam.
See the VCAA website for more details on how moderation of internal coursework works.
However, briefly, your SAC rank is more important than your absolute score.
As an example, if students A,B,C,D,E
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Sorry, last post sent before it was finished ...........
continuing..
say students A,B,C,D,E get the top 5 SAC scores of 80,84,88,92,96 respectively.-
In the external exam they score as follows A 83, B 91, C 85, D 80, E85
The moderation process will set the top SAC score equal to the top exam score ie E has the top SAC before moderation of 96 - this will be adjusted to the top exam score of 93.
After that it is a little less clear. The 1st quartile SAC score is set equal to the 1st quartile exam score, the median (mean?) SAC is set equal to the median (mean?) exam score, the 3rd quartile SAC is set equal to the 3rd quartile exam, and the spread of all SAC scores in between these benchmarks is made similar to the external spread.
However, the order remains the same ie E gets the highest moderated SAC score, D gets the 2nd highest, C gets the 3rd higest etc
The external exam scores are not changed at all. Only the SACs are moderated.
The significance of this for estimating study scores is that your ranking (not your absolute SAC score) will determine what your moderated SAC score becomes.
If your are ranked #1 for SACs at your school, you will get a SAC score equal to the highest exam score achieved by anyone at your school, irrespective of whether it is achieved by you or someone else.
Your moderated SAC score becomes dependant on what your school's cohort achieved in the exam.
It is a very strange and flawed system, and there are anomalies all over the place. But it is the best that VCAA can do to protect against schools exaggerating their internal scores to the advantage of their students.
I hope this helps, rather than confuses you further. As I say, look it up on the VCAA website for more details.
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Sorry, last post sent before it was finished ...........
continuing..
say students A,B,C,D,E get the top 5 SAC scores of 80,84,88,92,96 respectively.-
In the external exam they score as follows A 83, B 91, C 85, D 80, E85
The moderation process will set the top SAC score equal to the top exam score ie E has the top SAC before moderation of 96 - this will be adjusted to the top exam score of 93.
After that it is a little less clear. The 1st quartile SAC score is set equal to the 1st quartile exam score, the median (mean?) SAC is set equal to the median (mean?) exam score, the 3rd quartile SAC is set equal to the 3rd quartile exam, and the spread of all SAC scores in between these benchmarks is made similar to the external spread.
However, the order remains the same ie E gets the highest moderated SAC score, D gets the 2nd highest, C gets the 3rd higest etc
The external exam scores are not changed at all. Only the SACs are moderated.
The significance of this for estimating study scores is that your ranking (not your absolute SAC score) will determine what your moderated SAC score becomes.
If your are ranked #1 for SACs at your school, you will get a SAC score equal to the highest exam score achieved by anyone at your school, irrespective of whether it is achieved by you or someone else.
Your moderated SAC score becomes dependant on what your school's cohort achieved in the exam.
It is a very strange and flawed system, and there are anomalies all over the place. But it is the best that VCAA can do to protect against schools exaggerating their internal scores to the advantage of their students.
I hope this helps, rather than confuses you further. As I say, look it up on the VCAA website for more details.
Hey thanks so much for the explanation. I think I might go to VCAA to check their explanation as well.
I was just worried, since my class has some really, really smart students. :S
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i thought it was good to have smart students in your class, cos they help lift the sac marks if they do good in the exams....
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I have been told if your Exam mark is super and your SAC marks are just above average/average, your SAC marks are likely to be increased.
Therefore, if you really stuffed up your exam and your SAC marks were super; your SAC marks are likely to be decreased.
True/False?
Sounds logical to me. :)
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I have been told if your Exam mark is super and your SAC marks are just above average/average, your SAC marks are likely to be increased.
Therefore, if you really stuffed up your exam and your SAC marks were super; your SAC marks are likely to be decreased.
True/False?
Sounds logical to me. :)
Correct. If you get 100% SACs then go get a C+ on the VCAA exam, VCAA has to assume that your school gave you easy SACs and than accordingly scales you down.
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Your SAC grade/mark only changes depending on how your cohort performs overall, that is, everyone in your school doing that subject. Hence, it's better for your school to give harder SACs, that way if you do really well on the exam(s), then your SAC grade will be moderated up. (i.e. If you were getting B's on SACs, and you get A+ on the exam - then your SAC grade would be increase.)
Note also that there isn't a limit on how much your SACs can be moderated up/down as far as I'm aware.
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If you're rank 1, you get the highest exam mark (Even if you didn't get it)
If you're rank 10, even if you get 100% on the exam, you get the 10th highest exam mark in your cohort.
Thankfully for MHS and MacRob in big subjects, the cohort is generally selected at "random", so even if you're in the bottom half, you're still a good chance at an A+
It'd only work for subjects with enrollments >100
If you're rank 3, and the top students screw up, you're probably not going to get A+ though :X
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If you're rank 1, you get the highest exam mark (Even if you didn't get it)
If you're rank 10, even if you get 100% on the exam, you get the 10th highest exam mark in your cohort.
Don't understand how that's fair at all. Surely not.
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If you're rank 1, you get the highest exam mark (Even if you didn't get it)
If you're rank 10, even if you get 100% on the exam, you get the 10th highest exam mark in your cohort.
Thankfully for MHS and MacRob in big subjects, the cohort is generally selected at "random", so even if you're in the bottom half, you're still a good chance at an A+
It'd only work for subjects with enrollments >100
If you're rank 3, and the top students screw up, you're probably not going to get A+ though :X
Surely not? I'm pretty sure our exam mark stays our exam mark (although I guess it doesn't affect me...that much :P)
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If you're rank 1, you get the highest exam mark (Even if you didn't get it)
If you're rank 10, even if you get 100% on the exam, you get the 10th highest exam mark in your cohort.
Don't understand how that's fair at all. Surely not.
Not fair at all.
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If you're rank 1, you get the highest exam mark (Even if you didn't get it)
If you're rank 10, even if you get 100% on the exam, you get the 10th highest exam mark in your cohort.
Don't understand how that's fair at all. Surely not.
Not fair at all.
He means your SAC gets moderated to the ~10th exam mark, however you keep your exam mark regardless
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i thought that our exams were the things we should really be really worried about, not sacs since they can be moderated.
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i thought that our exams were the things we should really be really worried about, not sacs since they can be moderated.
Yes but then again having terrible SAC ranking isn't good either.. then you have to rely on the same number of students who did better then you on SACs to do better on the exam, or the moderation will hinder your SAC grade
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i thought that our exams were the things we should really be really worried about, not sacs since they can be moderated.
Yes but then again having terrible SAC ranking isn't good either.. then you have to rely on the same number of students who did better then you on SACs to do better on the exam, or the moderation will hinder your SAC grade
Seconded. True, exam(s) are worth more than SACs in any given subject (the exception being English), though as _avO said, I wouldn't rely on SAC moderation. There is no guarantee that one's SAC grade will be moderated up - that's an assumption that can't be made. SACs can be moderated either way; up or down. I wouldn't take the risk to depend on my cohort to get my desired score. Even if your SACs were moderated up, it may not even be by that much. There isn't a limit for how much SACs can be moderated up or down, I don't think.
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The key word in all of this is MODERATION, as much as we speculate that the 10th rank will get the 10th exam score, it's all in moderation and so it will all be averaged out, and in the end you should really get your deserved score.
That is of course regardless of errors, VCAA don't care about that unfortunately...
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That is of course regardless of errors, VCAA don't care about that unfortunately...
Agreed. I think there were errors across the board this year - it has been a bad year for VCAA in terms of exams. It's more annoying and frustrating that VCAA get it wrong, I mean, I can understand errors in practice papers/exams, though I'd expect the VCAA exams to be mistake-free. I thought VCAA double-checked and triple-checked exams before students sit them. I don't see if that's the case, how errors can still appear on the day of exams.
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So.. all in all.. are SACs the most important? ie. Rank 1 is the most important?
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The exam is what can either make or break your score. Do brilliant on the exam (high A+), your SAC marks are likely to rise accordingly. If your SACs and Exam were both within say 15%, you'd expect nothing to be moderated. If you shaite in the exam and do brilliant in your SACs, your SAC grades will be lowered which is how it should be.
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Yes but what if you take into account your sac scores?
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^ Everyone has been answering that exact question in the whole 2 pages of this thread..
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Re GS post above - "..Do brilliant on the exam (high A+), your SAC marks are likely to rise accordingly. If your SACs and Exam were both within say 15%, you'd expect nothing to be moderated..."
This isn't true. If you were ranked say 5th in SACs and you did briliiantly in the exam, say high A+, your SAC mark could still be moderated downwards. Your SAC mark will be set approximately equal to the 5th highest exam score of your cohort, which might be higher or lower than what your SAC mark was before moderation.
It is a myth that your SAC mark is moderated up or down according to how you went in the exam.
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.... Just go for rank #1 and save yourself the hassle everyone. ;)
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Am i right in saying this??
If there are 5 really super smart people in a class of 30, and there's not much difference between them. Then it wouldnt really make much difference if you get Ranked 1st of 5th because there would be minute discrepancy between the highest and 5th highest exam scores.
am i correct?
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Well it's fine to say that if they are all going to get really high exam results...